Cade to Black: 2021 NBA Draft Thread

BigSoxFan

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A tank season could potentially turn this team into a juggernaut. I wouldn’t be too upset if they remain in the lottery. Adding a lotto pick and a TPE piece would make this squad pretty formidable from a talent standpoint.
 

Jed Zeppelin

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A tank season could potentially turn this team into a juggernaut. I wouldn’t be too upset if they remain in the lottery. Adding a lotto pick and a TPE piece would make this squad pretty formidable from a talent standpoint.
Time for Tatum to develop some elbow soreness?
 

NoXInNixon

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Time for Tatum to develop some elbow soreness?
If he's suffering from Long Covid, affecting his endurance, maybe he should be resting his lungs to prevent permanent damage. We just don't know enough about the long term effects of this disease.
 

chilidawg

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Just watched the FSU UNC game and color me impressed with Barnes. 6'9 athlete playing the point. Great vision, good passing skills, shot obviously needs work. A force defensively both on the perimeter and inside. If you squint real hard you can see a Pippen type player.
 

128

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Just watched the FSU UNC game and color me impressed with Barnes. 6'9 athlete playing the point. Great vision, good passing skills, shot obviously needs work. A force defensively both on the perimeter and inside. If you squint real hard you can see a Pippen type player.
Florida State is turning out NBA prospect after NBA prospect these days.
 

Ale Xander

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I'm a big fan of McKinley Wright and don't really know about his NBA value but I would love to subtract Kemba Walker if we could add him in his place to keep the undersized guard theme going. Would love next year a MW/Smart/JB/JT/RW starting 5 with PP as the 6th man coming in for one of the guards at first sub. Assuming we also add a stretch big man if we don't keep Theis and a banger/rebounder if we trade TT. (one via draft, other via acquisition)

What are people's thoughts about him (MWIV) and where/if he will be drafted?
 
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Just a bit outside

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McKinley Wright is a good college player but is a small guard who can’t shoot. His closest comp is probably Tremont Waters with a worse jump shot.

Edit: My son is a student at CU so I have watched him a lot, including in person. He is fun but will be swallowed up in the NBA.
 

HomeRunBaker

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Every time I watch Corey Kispert I have flashbacks to the NBA lottery bust known by the name of Sam Jacobson.
 

nighthob

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OK, I’ve been watching piles of video and I see a lot of really good players in the pool. Headlined a future MVP candidate (barring injury or Fultzing around with his jumper).
 

chilidawg

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OK, I’ve been watching piles of video and I see a lot of really good players in the pool. Headlined a future MVP candidate (barring injury or Fultzing around with his jumper).
Cunningham? I just don't see it. I see a very good player, but not one who is dominating at his current level like you'd expect. Not an AD/Durant type prospect imo. Doesn't have those physically dominant characteristics. Of course Harden didn't either and he became an MVP level player, so you never know how a guy will develop.
 

HomeRunBaker

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Cunningham has been playing on one leg since his ankle injury a couple weeks ago. What people are seeing now isn’t the player who could singlehabdedly best almost any team in the country. Aside from the obvious skills he’s shown what I love about his is his competitiveness, defensive instincts and versatility such as when he saved a game with a blocked shot at the rim. There is a decent sized gap to #2 imo.
 

Jed Zeppelin

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Cunningham has been playing on one leg since his ankle injury a couple weeks ago. What people are seeing now isn’t the player who could singlehabdedly best almost any team in the country. Aside from the obvious skills he’s shown what I love about his is his competitiveness, defensive instincts and versatility such as when he saved a game with a blocked shot at the rim. There is a decent sized gap to #2 imo.
I don't really follow college much but tuned in the other night. Didn't know about the ankle, and all things considered he toughed it out for 40 minutes. NBA spacing should do wonders for him.
 

HomeRunBaker

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I don't really follow college much but tuned in the other night. Didn't know about the ankle, and all things considered he toughed it out for 40 minutes. NBA spacing should do wonders for him.
Yes, people watching Cade in this tourney as sure to not be impressed. If you can find the B2B OT wins over TTech and OU last month, especially the OU game, it would paint a much different story. He’s the real deal.
 

nighthob

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I don't really follow college much but tuned in the other night. Didn't know about the ankle, and all things considered he toughed it out for 40 minutes. NBA spacing should do wonders for him.
The guy’s tough as nails. He’s like a 6’8” Marcus with more offense. I loooove the JalenGs (Suggs and Green), but they’re a long way down from CC Baller.
 

ElcaballitoMVP

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The guy’s tough as nails. He’s like a 6’8” Marcus with more offense. I loooove the JalenGs (Suggs and Green), but they’re a long way down from CC Baller.
Yeah, for a PG, he's HUGE. He's going to create mismatches on offense and should lead to a lot of blocks, steals and rebounds on the other end. He's going to be a positive on both sides of the ball. He's not a lights-out shooter but he still shot 40% from 3 as a freshman.

Give him NBA spacing, better support/shooters around him, and he's going to flourish. I've watched him play in 8-10 times this year and I'm really impressed with his game. He didn't shoot the ball very well in the tournament, so I can understand the doubts, but he's the real deal. I have a tough time coming up with a comp for him because he's so big. A bigger Marcus with more offense is a good one. Ben Simmons with a shot? Maybe not as impactful on the defensive end, but better offensively. I've seen Grant Hill and Penny Hardaway mentioned on various sites, as well. His game is built for the NBA.
 

Kliq

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Yeah, for a PG, he's HUGE. He's going to create mismatches on offense and should lead to a lot of blocks, steals and rebounds on the other end. He's going to be a positive on both sides of the ball. He's not a lights-out shooter but he still shot 40% from 3 as a freshman.

Give him NBA spacing, better support/shooters around him, and he's going to flourish. I've watched him play in 8-10 times this year and I'm really impressed with his game. He didn't shoot the ball very well in the tournament, so I can understand the doubts, but he's the real deal. I have a tough time coming up with a comp for him because he's so big. A bigger Marcus with more offense is a good one. Ben Simmons with a shot? Maybe not as impactful on the defensive end, but better offensively. I've seen Grant Hill and Penny Hardaway mentioned on various sites, as well. His game is built for the NBA.
Some combo of Luka and LaMelo Ball seems pretty apt, he will be a better defender than either of them though.

One thing I love about Cade was his ability to get to the line and his willingness to work off-the-ball and punish smaller defenders with quick post touches. Even in the tournament games, he shot the ball poorly from the field but remained a productive offensive player thanks to his ability to draw fouls.
 

nighthob

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Yeah, for a PG, he's HUGE. He's going to create mismatches on offense and should lead to a lot of blocks, steals and rebounds on the other end. He's going to be a positive on both sides of the ball. He's not a lights-out shooter but he still shot 40% from 3 as a freshman.

Give him NBA spacing, better support/shooters around him, and he's going to flourish. I've watched him play in 8-10 times this year and I'm really impressed with his game. He didn't shoot the ball very well in the tournament, so I can understand the doubts, but he's the real deal. I have a tough time coming up with a comp for him because he's so big. A bigger Marcus with more offense is a good one. Ben Simmons with a shot? Maybe not as impactful on the defensive end, but better offensively. I've seen Grant Hill and Penny Hardaway mentioned on various sites, as well. His game is built for the NBA.
He's a real four position defender, which in the modern NBA makes him worth his weight in Rhodium. But for me the best part of Cunningham isn't creating mismatches at the 1, it's the ability to play him at the 2-3 and being able to start a good 3&D guy at the 1.
 

HomeRunBaker

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He's a real four position defender, which in the modern NBA makes him worth his weight in Rhodium. But for me the best part of Cunningham isn't creating mismatches at the 1, it's the ability to play him at the 2-3 and being able to start a good 3&D guy at the 1.
Imagine the defensive length backcourt a Cade/Lonzo would provide?
 

nighthob

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My preliminary top 15, I'll be back later to build on this. Barnes may overtake the #3 spot as I obsessively go over the video. I have a big dropoff after 8. And I'm probably a lot higher on Keon Johnson than most.

  1. Cade Cunningham- Marcus with an offensive game. He even makes the same sort of nifty defensive plays followed by a crisp pass initiating transition offense. A full four position defender and three level scorer that can QB the offense from the wing. Height, length, mass, athleticism, skills. He's the full Monty. He has future MVP written all over him.
  2. Jalen Suggs- I may be too high on him at the moment, but he reminds me of Russell Westbrook. If Westbrook could shoot. A relentless attacker on offense. And with enough size to not be huntable on the defensive end.
  3. Jalen Green- He'd normally be a #1. I might have him fourth here. A three level scorer that can defend 1-3. A big time athlete. A little like Jaylen, only he lacks Brown's mass. Better instincts, though. He looks like a future top 20 player.
  4. Scottie Barnes- I looooooooove Barnes. He's my favorite player from this pool (which doesn't mean that I think he's the best, just my favorite to watch play). If I trusted his shooting more he'd be #2 on my preliminary list. He still might get there after I watch a few dozen jumpers a couple of hundred times. Otherwise a poor man's Cade. At 6'9" 230 with a +5 wingspan he can defend 2-5 and his handle and vision are good enough for him to QB the offense.
  5. Jonathan Kuminga- A monster athlete. 6'7" 225 with a +6 wingspan. He can defend 2-5, a killer in transition. The jumper is ... not good. Not Precious Achiuwa bad, but not good either. He might never get to be anything more than a Shawn Marion type. But like Brown if he grows his game he has all star upside.
  6. Keon Johnson- A monster athlete. But shorter and slighter than Jalen Green. He looks like he might be longer, though. He has the tools to be a three level scorer if he can add enough mass to take the pounding in the paint. The length/athleticism package gives you at least quality defense 1-3.
  7. Evan Mobley- I struggle with this. He looks like a really good center, but how much is that really worth in the modern NBA? But if you're picking seventh in a draft any sort of all star is a good deal. Elite length and functional athleticism. The body needs a lot of work. The question with guys like this is what does the athleticism look like when he adds another 40-50 pounds. He's similar to Wiseman, but less mass. He's too good to slip any further down my list.
  8. Moses Moody- I really wanted to put him over Mobley. A big time scorer. A pretty looking jumper. Not the athlete Green and Johnson are. But I would seriously kill puppies to have him as Boston's third wing. He'll have a defensive learning curve, but at 6'6" with a +6 wingspan he's got the physical tools to be a menace in the passing lanes.
  9. Jaden Springer- Another guard. Smaller than Johnson or Moody, but can defend 1-2 pretty well and has sufficient height/length/size to not he huntable. He'd look really good lining up next to Cunningham as a secondary ballhandler and scorer.
  10. Jalen Johnson- In high school he was in the top five of my ratings. But he's struggled with injuries for two years now and he just didn't dominate the college competition the way he should have given his physicals. He has elite athleticism combined with good size/height. Only has a +2 wingspan, but at his size that's enough to be an asset. Like Cam Reddish before him he should have torched the ACC, but there's something missing. Maybe he'd tap into his talent if he slides enough to reach a vet team where he's going to have to earn playing time.
  11. Ziaire Williams- Not sure he's going to enter the draft. Another guy that would be better off sliding to a vet team where he'll be forced to earn his time. But, just as importantly, where he'll have time to grow his game. Reminds me a lot of Paul George at the same age. He's listed at 6'8" 190, but I'd be shocked if he was more than 180. He seriously needs another 40-50 lbs. He's got sufficient length to be a plus defender and a decent package of skills to build on. He may not declare, though.
  12. Franz "Less" Wagner- Mo's kid brother. He's just a really solid all round player. Reminds me a bit of Junior Dunleavy. Great feel for the game, makes crisp passes to cutters, shoots well, attacks closeouts well. Not an all star, but he's going to be a decent starter for a long time in this league. That's a good get in the mid first.
  13. Jared Butler- Another guy that would look really good playing the 1 on a team where the offense is managed from the wing. Dallas would kill to line him up next to Luka. A scoring combo guard with a good handle and sufficient size/length not to be a defensive liability. Again, this is the mid first. We have to lower expectations.
  14. James Bouknight- I like the game, but I don't for a minute buy that he's 6'4" 180. He needs to add a good 30lbs to his frame.
  15. Greg Brown- Another guy that might not enter the draft. Elite athleticism and length. If he puts it all together he could reach the top 40 (all star). But another guy that just seems to have something missing. With his size and athleticism he should have killed people, but his effort was erratic. He's the kind of guy the Spurs draft and turn into gold, though.
 

benhogan

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Who do you like in the sub-categories (that may available in the 20s)

International draft/stash? Sengun, Giddey, Petrusev

Old/ready to contribute college players? Kispert, Duarte, Mitchell, Butler

Any thoughts on 21yr old Quentin Grimes? mocked mid 2nd round, the guy can defend/shoot high vol 3s
 

Cellar-Door

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One guy I'm intrigued by for the Celtics, but think could make the late rise into the lottery is Josh Giddey. 6'8" 18 year old Aussie PG.
 

nighthob

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Thanks to covid I'm way behind on my tape this year (there were 6-8 weeks where I just couldn't process quickly, I think that in this very thread that I accidentally turned Scotty Barnes into a Harrison brother at the height of it). So I've been skimping on the international players so far.

Giddey and Mojave King are two that I have watched some of, but not nearly enough to be comfortable with my evaluations yet. I do like what I've seen of Giddey so far. He's listed as a PG, but no way he can defend smaller/quicker guys in the NBA. If he could fill out a little and maintain his current athleticism he could be a point forward. He's a little like Franz Wagner in that he's got a solid all round game. As I watch more I'll let you know.

I also like King a little as a lottery ticket in the 20-40 range. He's also a solid all round player. More athletic than Giddey, but also a lot smaller and slighter (he's listed at 6'5" 185 but I think those measurements might be a little generous).
 

Cellar-Door

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Thanks to covid I'm way behind on my tape this year (there were 6-8 weeks where I just couldn't process quickly, I think that in this very thread that I accidentally turned Scotty Barnes into a Harrison brother at the height of it). So I've been skimping on the international players so far.

Giddey and Mojave King are two that I have watched some of, but not nearly enough to be comfortable with my evaluations yet. I do like what I've seen of Giddey so far. He's listed as a PG, but no way he can defend smaller/quicker guys in the NBA. If he could fill out a little and maintain his current athleticism he could be a point forward. He's a little like Franz Wagner in that he's got a solid all round game. As I watch more I'll let you know.

I also like King a little as a lottery ticket in the 20-40 range. He's also a solid all round player. More athletic than Giddey, but also a lot smaller and slighter (he's listed at 6'5" 185 but I think those measurements might be a little generous).
Giddey to me from the limited tape I've seen, looks like a mix of LaMelo (played same league last year, similar stats) and Slo-Mo Anderson. Great vision and passing, eager to start breaks, but not a top athlete, bit slow footed, gonna have to be more crafty to succeed as a scorer, going to be a size defender not a quick feet one.

I've seen the Luka Comp but... 1. not really fair to compare him to a guy who was a Euro start since like puberty, 2. I think Luka's athleticism limitations were overrated. Stylistically I get the thought process though in terms of guys who play based on awkward pace rather than explosiveness.
 

HomeRunBaker

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I know I’m banging the “prototypes” here but one thing that has stood out to me all year s how badly Kispert and Wagner handled length and athleticism at the college level. I haven’t seen a ton of Wagner to feel nearly as certain as I am about Kispert. I’m like Adam Morrison-certain he’s going to struggle at the next level......and yes I’m absolutely terrified that he’ll be on the board when Ainge picks at #17.
 

nighthob

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Wagner has enough skill to survive as a roleplayer, as Kyle Anderson has. I'm with you on the Kispert skepticism. He's a shooter. So he needs to be elite there while providing defensive resistance.
 

BigSoxFan

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I know I’m banging the “prototypes” here but one thing that has stood out to me all year s how badly Kispert and Wagner handled length and athleticism at the college level. I haven’t seen a ton of Wagner to feel nearly as certain as I am about Kispert. I’m like Adam Morrison-certain he’s going to struggle at the next level......and yes I’m absolutely terrified that he’ll be on the board when Ainge picks at #17.
I feel like Kispert’s path to success is to be a Joe Harris type on a loaded offensive team. Like with Harris, Redick, and other great college shooters with modest athleticism, I think it’s going to take him time to adjust, if he ever does.

I will admit that my bust radar is blinking a bit on him. That Baylor game will stick in my mind for a while.
 

Ale Xander

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My preliminary top 15, I'll be back later to build on this. Barnes may overtake the #3 spot as I obsessively go over the video. I have a big dropoff after 8. And I'm probably a lot higher on Keon Johnson than most.


  1. Jalen Suggs- I may be too high on him at the moment, but he reminds me of Russell Westbrook. If Westbrook could shoot. A relentless attacker on offense. And with enough size to not be huntable on the defensive end.
FWIW, Russ was a better 3PT shooter than Suggs in college, .354 to .337 (with better in-conference defenders). Suggs has an amazing overall shooting percentage partly because that offense was so awesome he has so many layups.
 

HomeRunBaker

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FWIW, Russ was a better 3PT shooter than Suggs in college, .354 to .337 (with better in-conference defenders). Suggs has an amazing overall shooting percentage partly because that offense was so awesome he has so many layups.
I haven’t looked at any splits but I believe Suggs went through a stretch this year where he completely lost confidence in his perimeter shot. I am pretty sure it was a fairly extended stretch that was getting so bad that he refused to shoot which dragged down his overall numbers. His mechanics indicate that shooting shouldn’t be a problem for him long term.
 

nighthob

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FWIW, Russ was a better 3PT shooter than Suggs in college, .354 to .337 (with better in-conference defenders). Suggs has an amazing overall shooting percentage partly because that offense was so awesome he has so many layups.
In two years and twice as many minutes Westbrook shot fewer treys than Suggs. With a worse FT% to boot. I stand by my observation.