Byerie Irving? Do you want Kyrie back?

[HomeRunBaker]

Horford could have stayed in Atlanta, and IIRC other teams were knocking on his door as well.

Horford initially indicated he would stay, and never seemed to not like it here, and always said good things about Stevens. Kyrie leaving seemed to change all that, so it seems likely that Horford is ring-chasing, which is his right. Or maybe a team is out there willing to offer him the max for 3 or 4 years, which is difficult for the Celtics to swallow given their current situation. Using Horford as an example of how players don't want to play for Stevens is stupid, and everyone who's been following this team knows that.

Where did I say Horford is an example of a player who doesn't want to play for Stevens? Kyrie and Rozier are the two guys who had trouble with him, not Horford who just seems to go about his business. I mean beating out Atlanta, whose 5th year offer was actually a detriment to him, isn't exactly a ringing endorsement. What other max offers did he have? I don't recall any.

This isn't really about Horford it is more about the perception that everything is good with Boston's image around the league is fine. I don't feel that it is that great at all.

 

[lexrageorge]

Where did I say Horford is an example of a player who doesn't want to play for Stevens? Kyrie and Rozier are the two guys who had trouble with him, not Horford who just seems to go about his business. I mean beating out Atlanta, whose 5th year offer was actually a detriment to him, isn't exactly a ringing endorsement. What other max offers did he have? I don't recall any.

This isn't really about Horford it is more about the perception that everything is good with Boston's image around the league is fine. I don't feel that it is that great at all.

Talk about moving the goalposts, as you first suggested that free agents were bolting out of town and then mentioned Stevens.

Kyrie's complaints about Stevens are so obviously stupid that I doubt they resonate very well with anyone. Kyrie is not LeBron, and the rest of the league not named Kyrie knows it. And noone in the league cares about what Terry Rozier thinks.

I'm going to move the goalposts in a bit and admit that we don't know everything there is to know, other than that neither Davis nor Kawhi were willing to give any indication (never mind commitment) that they would be willing to stay in Boston. However, the same could be said of NY, Brooklyn, Miami, Dallas or any other destination that is deemed to be more favorable than Boston as a free agent destination. Both made it clear it was LA or bust (with Kawhi at least hedging his bets to include either franchise).

 

[Captaincoop]

Can we close this thread? I want to throw up in my mouth every time I see the thread title. We know Kyrie is not coming back.

 

[luckiestman]

Can we close this thread? I want to throw up in my mouth every time I see the thread title. We know Kyrie is not coming back.

No. I love that I was all in early on the “fuck off drew” campaign.

 

[jon abbey]

I don't think we close it until he actually signs somewhere else, sorry.

 

[DJnVa]

I don't think we close it until he actually signs somewhere else, sorry.

So, do you think Kyrie learns anything from seeing stories that without KD, the Nets are iffy on him, based on how his Boston time went down? That has to be sobering for someone that can self-reflect even a little.

https://nypost.com/2019/06/19/inside-debate-the-nets-are-having-about-kyrie-irving/

The Post has confirmed Brooklyn might have qualms about signing the enigmatic Irving if he isn’t bringing the injured Durant with him.

Other teams had already backed off of pursuing Irving with similar concerns over the way things went awry in Boston.

 

[jon abbey]

I think Kyrie has to realize at this point that he is not a #1 guy on a title contender, which is not a knock, there are only a handful of players in the league that are. What he does with that information remains to be seen, but I don't think there is any chance he is coming back to BOS.

 

[tims4wins]

I think Kyrie has to realize at this point that he is not a #1 guy on a title contender, which is not a knock, there are only a handful of players in the league that are. What he does with that information remains to be seen, but I don't think there is any chance he is coming back to BOS.

But does he have the self awareness to admit it?

 

[jon abbey]

We'll see, this is what killed the end of Carmelo's career. If he had admitted to himself much much earlier that he was ideally suited as the 3rd best player on a title contender (not a knock, putting him in the category of Bosh and Kevin Love and Klay Thompson), he could have found a much better situation, I think.

 

[DannyDarwinism]

FWIW, John Karalis on today’s Locked On Celtics podcast said “somebody in the league” texted him that Kyrie and Horford hate each other. There’s been numerous plugged-in people saying Jaylen did not get along with him, plus Jaylen “I’d rather walk than ride with bad company” IG post from two days ago. I’d be really wary if I was a team with young guys and good chemistry like Brooklyn.

 

[sezwho]

But does he have the self awareness to admit it?

This is actually the question that makes me optimistic about the outcome.

If Kyrie is self aware enough to see that last year ended with him Alpha-ing the Celtics into the dumpster, then he will resign here and get the best chance to win and make max money. If he’s the ego trip & space cadet many believe then he’s Brooklyns headache.

Problem solved

 

[sox311]

With more questions coming up that the Nets are wavering on him, what are all of his options? What teams have the space or could make it to bring him aboard:

Celtics
Lakers
Nets
Knicks
--
Clippers
Atlanta
Mavs
Pacers
Kings
Mystery team who opens up the space...

Since the rumors started I have been shocked that the nets would be interested in bringing him into their culture, it looks like that thinking is rearing its head now. I seem to think he'll end up with the Knicks when the Nets pass becasue he won't be with KD. This KD/Warriors extension rumor then trade could change that though. (but that is a long shot to say the least)

 

[tims4wins]

This is actually the question that makes me optimistic about the outcome.

If Kyrie is self aware enough to see that last year ended with him Alpha-ing the Celtics into the dumpster, then he will resign here and get the best chance to win and make max money. If he’s the ego trip & space cadet many believe then he’s Brooklyns headache.

Problem solved

That's a great point. Win-win.

 

[ehaz]

FWIW, John Karalis on today’s Locked On Celtics podcast said “somebody in the league” texted him that Kyrie and Horford hate each other. There’s been numerous plugged-in people saying Jaylen did not get along with him, plus Jaylen “I’d rather walk than ride with bad company” IG post from two days ago. I’d be really wary if I was a team with young guys and good chemistry like Brooklyn.

I mean, I can understand how anyone would have a bad relationship with Kyrie, but seems a little strange because the Kyrie/Al pick n pop was one of the only consistently great things last year.

 

[DannyDarwinism]

I mean, I can understand how anyone would have a bad relationship with Kyrie, but seems a little strange because the Kyrie/Al pick n pop was one of the only consistently great things last year.

Yeah, I was surprised by the claim because they had good on-court chemistry. Also because Al seems like a hard guy to dislike. Unless you’re Lou Merloni.

 

[CoffeeNerdness]

I don't think you need to be buddy buddy to run a standard basketball play successfully.

 

[the moops]

I am going to love it when Kyrie re-signs and they turn Baynes + Brown into Capela

 

[bakahump]

Maybe, and total tea leave read here, but maybe Kyrie felt that the biggest threat to his alpha dog status was Al? That right there is enough for Kyrie to "hate" Al. And probably enough for Al to reciprocate.

Not saying that Kyrie is a better leader then Al, or that I prefer Kyrie to Al. Just saying that It seems pretty easy for a "mercurial" guy like KI, who is dying to be the alpha, to have a hard time with (pretty much) the only other guy of status on the team.

 

[nighthob]

I am going to love it when Kyrie re-signs and they turn Baynes + Brown into Capela

I'm going to love it even more when the Clippers sign him to pair with Leonard and ship Boston a pair of firsts to eat Gallinari and they end up being lottery picks as playing Kyrie aggravates Kawhi's quad issues until he's traded back to Toronto for OG Anunoby.

 

[bakahump]

@nighthob

One of those is totally unrealistic. The other is you busting balls.

 

[reggiecleveland]

My biggest treason for wanting Kyrie to go is not the off court stuff. I worry about his knee, and his ability to be worth the money he will want to stay. Despite everything had he been able to score they maybe beat the Bucks. He isn't going to get better, and I don' think he is good enough. if we want the Cs to remain a playoff team, but not a contender, I guess Kyrie can do that.

 

[nighthob]

You're right, two first round picks is unrealistic.

 

[RedOctober3829]

How tired is it now when FA can't wait to bolt out of town? The shine on Brad is fading quickly. Are we really still living under the mirage that players want to come here? The only time they ever have was to have a legit chance at a Championship.

Kyrie did not work out here and Horford is leaving for a better chance at a title before he leaves. How the heck is that Brad Stevens' fault? What mirage are you talking about? You're trying to make an argument that just isn't there. Of course players want to go to a place to win. Boston has never been a free agent destination so why would people all of a sudden think it is? The only reason someone like Kevin Durant would go anywhere is if there's a max contract slot and it is a good situation to win. Brad admitted himself he did not have a good year, but that does not erase all the good he's done since coming from Butler.

 

[RedOctober3829]

FWIW, John Karalis on today’s Locked On Celtics podcast said “somebody in the league” texted him that Kyrie and Horford hate each other. There’s been numerous plugged-in people saying Jaylen did not get along with him, plus Jaylen “I’d rather walk than ride with bad company” IG post from two days ago. I’d be really wary if I was a team with young guys and good chemistry like Brooklyn.

Jeff Goodman said last night that if Brooklyn was where Kyrie was going then you can cross them off of Horford's list. He didn't come out and say it, but he sure as hell implies that they don't like each other.

 

[djbayko]

Maybe, and total tea leave read here, but maybe Kyrie felt that the biggest threat to his alpha dog status was Al? That right there is enough for Kyrie to "hate" Al. And probably enough for Al to reciprocate.

Not saying that Kyrie is a better leader then Al, or that I prefer Kyrie to Al. Just saying that It seems pretty easy for a "mercurial" guy like KI, who is dying to be the alpha, to have a hard time with (pretty much) the only other guy of status on the team.

It could be partly that. And partly that I don’t see Big Al as being someone who would put up with Kyrie’s shit, if the stories are true that Kyrie didn’t want to work hard on improving the team during the regular season and treated the young guys poorly,

 

[DJnVa]

Why the hell would we want a guy that pissed off Horford and Brown even if we ended up losing both of them? Horford is the consummate pro and Brown is a smart kid with a lot going for him---and Kyrie pissed them both off? No thanks.

 

[djbayko]

Why the hell would we want a guy that pissed off Horford and Brown even if we ended up losing both of them? Horford is the consummate pro and Brown is a smart kid with a lot going for him---and Kyrie pissed them both off? No thanks.

Who wants him now?

 

[DJnVa]

Who wants him now?

Hopefully no one. I'm just responding to the "maybe he'll come back now", which I know is mostly tongue-in-cheek.

 

[bakahump]

@djbayko

No Doubt. I didnt say "How" Big Al Annoyed Kyrie. It wouldnt surprise me at all based on what we have heard that Kyrie was pissed at Al exactly for what you say. He called him out on his BS. Cant be alpha dog if someone is (/needs to) calling you out.

 

[djbayko]

Hopefully no one. I'm just responding to the "maybe he'll come back now", which I know is mostly tongue-in-cheek.

I do hope he asks...for the embarrassment of it.

 

[lovegtm]

Hopefully no one. I'm just responding to the "maybe he'll come back now", which I know is mostly tongue-in-cheek.

Yeah, I don't think the Cs want him back now, especially with AD off the table. It's like a breakup where you get dumped, immediately feel awesome the next day, and realize where the problems lay.

 

[Jed Zeppelin]

Al Horford is the consummate professional and one of the best team players (I mean literally everything he does on the court) that has ever passed through here. Makes the right pass, the right pick, the right shot decision, the right defensive switch, as much as humanly possible. No surprise he and Kyrie had issues.

 

[HowBoutDemSox]

Hopefully no one. I'm just responding to the "maybe he'll come back now", which I know is mostly tongue-in-cheek.

I do hope he asks...for the embarrassment of it.

 

[mcpickl]

Pop is apples and oranges. Kawhi's issue was with the Spurs medical teams diagnosis...….Brad has been heavily criticized by some of his biggest supporters this past season, mismanaged his roster (that was admittedly flawed and a tough deck to be handed) while half his rotation is literally running out the exit door!

I don't know how Hayward feels but it's pretty clear that Horford is simply following the money and accepting one huge Celtics offer that nobody else had on the table doesn't really count as feather in our cap.

C'mon man, this isn't true.

It was widely reported at the time that Washington offered him the same deal Boston did, and Atlanta offered him more.

That's just from the teams he was willing to take their pitches.

 

[DJnVa]

Woj saying tonight that KD’s free agency is NOT based on any other player, including Kyrie. GS, NJ, NYK, LAC all possibilities.

 

[sox311]

I get the feeling Kyrie and Danny could go crawling back to each other like a couple who broke up then realized there is nothing better out there.... I doubt it, but I could see it.

 

[E5 Yaz]

Kyrie did not work out here and Horford is leaving for a better chance at a title before he leaves. How the heck is that Brad Stevens' fault? What mirage are you talking about? You're trying to make an argument that just isn't there. Of course players want to go to a place to win. Boston has never been a free agent destination so why would people all of a sudden think it is? The only reason someone like Kevin Durant would go anywhere is if there's a max contract slot and it is a good situation to win. Brad admitted himself he did not have a good year, but that does not erase all the good he's done since coming from Butler.

Because he hasn't won titles!!! C'mon get with the program.

 

[djbayko]

Not happening. He single highhandedly poisoned the locker room and blew up any possibility of a near-term super team. You can trace the departures/likley departures of Horford and Baynes directly to him. He wants to be labeled a leader without actually having the responsibility. He wants to enjoy the accolades of being a superstar without dealing with the media. Why would we want him back at this point?

 

[the moops]

Why would we want him back at this point?

Because he is one of the ~15 best basketball players on the planet

 

[DJnVa]

Because he is one of the ~15 best basketball players on the planet

But apparently an asshole that caused a lot of rifts with teammates that are still there.

 

[prizminferno]

Celtics shouldn't even offer him a contract

 

[Ale Xander]

Because he is one of the ~15 best basketball players on the planet

Kyrie is Van Gogh during the knife-wielding part of his career. You want that around?

 

[Auger34]

C'mon man, this isn't true.

It was widely reported at the time that Washington offered him the same deal Boston did, and Atlanta offered him more.

That's just from the teams he was willing to take their pitches.

I believe OKC also was talking to him about a possible max offer (until Durant left)

 

[the moops]

Kyrie is Van Gogh during the knife-wielding part of his career. You want that around?

If the team is going to not be that good, at least we get the drama

 

[fairlee76]

Why the hell would we want a guy that pissed off Horford and Brown even if we ended up losing both of them? Horford is the consummate pro and Brown is a smart kid with a lot going for him---and Kyrie pissed them both off? No thanks.

No shit. Whoever posted "well, maybe now Kyrie will get it!" has zero experience working with people who lack self-awareness. They'll pretend to "get it" for a bit but at the end of the day they are who they are.

 

[tims4wins]

https://twitter.com/nbcsboston/status/1142176485823963136?s=21
Kyrie didn’t like Boston. Newsflash Kyrie: Boston doesn’t like you either. Fuck off.

 

[djbayko]

https://twitter.com/nbcsboston/status/1142176485823963136?s=21
Kyrie didn’t like Boston. Newsflash Kyrie: Boston doesn’t like you either. Fuck off.

There is a bit of news in that tweet which helps make sense of things, however.

Even through the worst of it, I held out some hope that at least Danny had his ear. That he was a voice of reason who could help Kyrie focus on the big picture, possibly pairing him up with AD next year.

If he had friction with Danny (and Brad - WTF?), then there was never any hope. And it makes me wonder exactly how long ago Danny knew - or maybe even decided - that Kyrie wasn’t coming back.

 

[the moops]

I didn't like living in Boston either

 

[bosockboy]

Well he ran away from Cleveland for the same reasons. Pretty obvious it’s the guy and not the organizations.

 

[lexrageorge]

If he's poisoning the well to the point that other players don't want to play in Boston, well, screw him. I sense a pattern here, and as he's the first player to have a problem with either Stevens or Ainge (to say nothing of Al Horford), the pattern is pretty damning.