Byerie Irving? Do you want Kyrie back?

What are your thoughts on Kyrie?

  • I want him back on max deal no matter what

    Votes: 60 19.5%
  • I want him back on max deal ONLY if AD is also coming

    Votes: 85 27.6%
  • I’m done with him and don’t want him back under any circumstances

    Votes: 109 35.4%
  • Not sure - I want to see how the playoffs go first

    Votes: 54 17.5%

  • Total voters
    308
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TripleOT

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No doubt. His game management has been a lot better the last month or so. Even with the blowout today, he was setting things up and running clock on the last possessions before he was subbed for garbage time. I was very impressed how he controlled possessions in closing time in the Indy sweep.
 

lovegtm

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No doubt. His game management has been a lot better the last month or so. Even with the blowout today, he was setting things up and running clock on the last possessions before he was subbed for garbage time. I was very impressed how he controlled possessions in closing time in the Indy sweep.
I think we’ve talked about this before, but it’s really valuable when you have a 10+ point lead with 6-7 minutes left to have a guy who can milk the clock while still generating decent expected value on his late-clock iso.
 

Jimbodandy

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I don't get why anyone is ok with Kyrie walking, even if AD doesn't happen.

In the AD thread, I stated that Kyrie probably isn't a top 10 player. I think that's true. If he is, it's just barely.

Still, he's clearly an elite offensive player, and not any kind of negative karma drag. He's not blocking an elite PG prospect.

What is possibly to be gained by Kyrie leaving under any circumstances, short of some magic S&T deal that doesn't exist?
 

tbrown_01923

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If yesterday is who Kyrie is - I want him back. I want to use him more off the ball to get more open looks for 3s. But even without, yesterdays Kyrie was awsome. It is so easy for him to get a shot off
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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I never understood people who didn't want Kyrie on this team. To me, just look at the Cs last year, IND this year, and MIL with a contained Giannis this year to understand how important it is to have someone like Kyrie. Playoff basketball is a slog, and teams can't win without being to hand it to a guy and have that guy get a good shot off even when the entire defense is geared to stopping that guy.
 

lovegtm

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I don't get why anyone is ok with Kyrie walking, even if AD doesn't happen.

In the AD thread, I stated that Kyrie probably isn't a top 10 player. I think that's true. If he is, it's just barely.

Still, he's clearly an elite offensive player, and not any kind of negative karma drag. He's not blocking an elite PG prospect.

What is possibly to be gained by Kyrie leaving under any circumstances, short of some magic S&T deal that doesn't exist?
I’d say that Kyrie is a top 5 offensive player in the playoffs. The group of guys for whom there is no defense is him, Kawhi, KD, Harden and Curry when he’s healthy. Everyone else has kryptonite players (Embiid Gasol, Giannis Horford, etc) or isn’t at that level.

Kyrie gets dinged for not being as good in the regular season, but no one gives a shit about the regular season, and I’d argue his approach is the correct one.
 

Euclis20

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Does anyone ding him for not being as good in the regular season? He's probably going to get 2nd team all NBA (he would have gotten it last year if he hadn't missed 20+ games), he's a tremendously efficient high volume scorer who averaged career highs (by a decent margin) in rpg and apg. One of the main knocks on him as a player is that he's always been at best below average on defense, and I think he stepped up in that regard, even a bit during the regular season.

He gets dinged for being an outwardly terrible leader who can't keep his foot out of his mouth.
 

NomarsFool

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I think the leader stuff is a bit overblown by the media because they need to write stories. Personally, I didn't think the "calling out the younger players" was nearly as much of a thing as the media likes to talk about it.

I think he can contribute on defense with some nice steals and rebounds here and there. He's not useless on that end of the floor. The one place I would like to seem him improve a little bit is on those really long 3s sometimes that don't seem like the best possible shot. He does hit some of them, no doubt, but it's got to be a lower percentage than his better looks from behind the arc.
 

benhogan

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I never understood people who didn't want Kyrie on this team. To me, just look at the Cs last year, IND this year, and MIL with a contained Giannis this year to understand how important it is to have someone like Kyrie. Playoff basketball is a slog, and teams can't win without being to hand it to a guy and have that guy get a good shot off even when the entire defense is geared to stopping that guy.
Did anyone legit not want him on this team? The bigger concern has him and Durant going elsewhere to create their own super team. A small part of the AD interest is making sure Kyrie signs here.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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Did anyone legit not want him on this team? The bigger concern has him and Durant going elsewhere to create their own super team. A small part of the AD interest is making sure Kyrie signs here.
I'm not going to go back through the threads but yes people were hoping that KI walked, particularly after his comments about players needing to grow up.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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I'm not going to go back through the threads but yes people were hoping that KI walked, particularly after his comments about players needing to grow up.
It went beyond that but to be fair, they were mostly of the game-thready hot-take variety.

If Irving had a poor game or the C's were in the midst of one of their many bad stretches or he was out and they did well, people started talking about keeping Rozier or we started to hear some talk that the C's were actually better without Kyrie.

Once again proving that hot takes suck (mine included). They are typically the small sample sized musing of someone or the rantings of a petulant fan who isn't enjoying a game or a sequence.

There is no replacing a Kyrie Irving. If he goes, the C's likely fall back into the middle of the pack. Who wants that?
 

benhogan

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It went beyond that but to be fair, they were mostly of the game-thready hot-take variety.

If Irving had a poor game or the C's were in the midst of one of their many bad stretches or he was out and they did well, people started talking about keeping Rozier or we started to hear some talk that the C's were actually better without Kyrie.

Once again proving that hot takes suck (mine included). They are typically the small sample sized musing of someone or the rantings of a petulant fan who isn't enjoying a game or a sequence.

There is no replacing a Kyrie Irving. If he goes, the C's likely fall back into the middle of the pack. Who wants that?
OK. I thought there was more hand wringing about him leaving, especially during the All-Star break (Durant/Kyrie conversation) or after the Bron phone call.
BUT 25 SoSHers wanted him gone no matter what, 56 not sure and 53 only if AD comes here according to the Poll above and that's a pretty sizeable amount. Jeez only 25% of the SoSH population wanted him back no matter what...yikes

Over the last 2 months, its felt that there was more of a MaMo/Rozier are welcome to sign elsewhere vibe (unless used as S&T money). Which I'm guilty of being a party too.
 
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amarshal2

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Does anyone ding him for not being as good in the regular season? He's probably going to get 2nd team all NBA (he would have gotten it last year if he hadn't missed 20+ games), he's a tremendously efficient high volume scorer who averaged career highs (by a decent margin) in rpg and apg. One of the main knocks on him as a player is that he's always been at best below average on defense, and I think he stepped up in that regard, even a bit during the regular season.

He gets dinged for being an outwardly terrible leader who can't keep his foot out of his mouth.
I think the general consensus will have Curry and Lillard above Kyrie with Westbrook about even. So 2nd team All NBA seems like a toss up. I think that's right -- he's probably arguably the 3rd best PG and no worse than 4th.

My guess at 1st team:
C: J. Embiid (maybe swap w/ N. Jokic)
F: K. Durant (maybe swap with P. George)
F: Giannis A.
G: J. Harden
G: S. Curry

My guess at 2nd team:
C: Edit: N. Jokic -- thanks mcpickl
F: P. George
F: K. Leonard (LeBron missed too many games)
G: D. Lillard
G: R. Westbrook probably edges K. Irving (hard to find a SG who makes sense over these guys)

Edit: Pulled Chris Paul from the conversation after double checking stats. He's fallen pretty far. Would be a shame to see Kemba in the discussion over Kyrie as it's not warranted.
 
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Euclis20

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We'll see when the voting comes out, but at this point I think only Curry is clearly superior to Kyrie amongst point guards (in terms of actual skill/production and national recognition). He's on a similar level to Lillard, but definitely above Westbrook at this point, who is on a pretty sharp downward trend.

The national backlash against Westbrook, who has averaged a triple double for three straight years, is remarkable. Yeah he's an inefficient chucker who chases rebounds and assists at the expense of his teammates' numbers, but that's just incredible.
 

Bad Penny

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It looks like Kyrie is following in LeBron's footsteps. When the going gets tough, the weak go somewhere else. I know it is pure speculation, but he showed zero effort tonight.
 

Bad Penny

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Seriously? I saw plenty of effort, just zero execution.
We must have watched a different game. His defense was abysmal. I never complain about missed shots, sometimes the ball just will not go in the basket, but I always notice effort. Kyrie played like it was a January game against Orlando.
 

k-factory

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We must have watched a different game. His defense was abysmal. I never complain about missed shots, sometimes the ball just will not go in the basket, but I always notice effort. Kyrie played like it was a January game against Orlando.
He took an impressive charge against Bledsoe - Smartesque
His D didn’t seem any worse than normal. D was just in a tough spot having to fly back into position after the brick fest on the other end. Just caught up to them.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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Former multiple time MVP Steph Curry had a 3-14 shooting night against the Clippers in the first round. Finals MVP and a consensus top 10 player Kawhi Leonard had a game versus Orlando where he shot 5-19 from the field. Jimmy Butler, who is the 76ers alpha and considered one of the best two way players in the NBA had two playoff games this year where he scored less than 10 points on three for 10 and four for twelve shooting respectively.

Are these guys quitters too? I don't want to pick on a single poster because this petulant child emoting isn't unique to one guy - its the reason gamethreads suck.

Its understandable to be frustrated with performances but to draw conclusions from one game is silly. Its not analysis - its a hot take.

Kyrie Irving had a bad game, partially because the opposing team adjusted and effectively took him out of his rhythm and, as k-factory notes, the C's were chasing the Bucks all game and who were bombing away (42.6% from three is pretty damn tough to recover from when the team is throwing up ~ 50 deep shots). This happens in the NBA playoffs.

But calling Irving weak who goes somewhere else ignores the guys body of work - he hit the biggest shot in a deciding championship game where his team had to claw its way back from 3-1 deficit.

Also, it bears saying that LeBron James is neither weak nor a quitter. The guy may have his flaws but the guy has dragged rosters that would dwell in cellars were it not from him deep into the playoffs.
 

DJnVa

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It looks like Kyrie is following in LeBron's footsteps. When the going gets tough, the weak go somewhere else. I know it is pure speculation, but he showed zero effort tonight.
You should post better.
 

HomeRunBaker

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It looks like Kyrie is following in LeBron's footsteps. When the going gets tough, the weak go somewhere else. I know it is pure speculation, but he showed zero effort tonight.
Not to pile on but LeBron carried teams with A.Jamison and Mo Williams as his 2/3 deep into the playoffs then left Miami to return home to a 33-win Cavs team prior to bringing a championship to Cleveland.

We’ve seen Kyrie pull out epic playoff performances both in Cleveland and here (G1). He’s like the last guy I’d call a quitter.
 

Jimbodandy

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Kyrie is seldom great on defense, but he wasn't a huge problem there last night. He was fine. Offensively, he was clearly off. Milwaukee adjustments and bad ball luck. It happens.

I think that people have unrealistic expectations for Kyrie. He's not prime Bird or Jordan. He's not even Durant or Curry. And even those guys have had shitty games.

If you look at the box score, Kyrie was not alone in the bucket of suck last night. Tatum, Hayward, and Rozier were right there with him. And even the guys who didn't lay an egg, like Brown and Horford had imperfect games. Really only Morris should have slept well last night of the 25+ minutes guys.
 

HomeRunBaker

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I think that people have unrealistic expectations for Kyrie. He's not prime Bird or Jordan. He's not even Durant or Curry. And even those guys have had shitty games.
Very true. He’s Lillard, He’s a rich mans Kemba. When he’s ON he will win you the game....ANY game. When he’s off he’s ordinary or sometimes worse. He’s the type of high upside player who can win you a Championship.
 

mcpickl

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I think the general consensus will have Curry and Lillard above Kyrie with Westbrook about even. So 2nd team All NBA seems like a toss up. I think that's right -- he's probably arguably the 3rd best PG and no worse than 4th.

My guess at 1st team:
C: J. Embiid
F: K. Durant (maybe swap with P. George)
F: Giannis A.
G: J. Harden
G: S. Curry

My guess at 2nd team:
C: A. Davis (hard to see KAT or Al or Gobert even with the missed games)
F: P. George
F: K. Leonard (LeBron missed too many games)
G: D. Lillard
G: R. Westbrook probably edges K. Irving (hard to find a SG who makes sense over these guys)

Edit: Pulled Chris Paul from the conversation after double checking stats. He's fallen pretty far. Would be a shame to see Kemba in the discussion over Kyrie as it's not warranted.
You missed Jokic here.

Davis has a 0% chance of making an all NBA team this year.

I'd be surprised if Russ beat out Kyrie for second team as well.
 

ifmanis5

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Jackie Mac has a piece on Kyrie who was/is one of the other miserable NBA stars...
http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/26659275/kyrie-irving-celtics-state-dismay

Rozier said that negative comments on social media was making Kyrie unhappy so deleting the apps from his phone made an improvement...
"Kyrie was the first person who told me, 'No matter what [players] say, everyone looks,'" Rozier says. "'And when you look, you are going to see positive things and negative things from people who have never met you.' That's why Kyrie deleted all that stuff off his phone -- it was bothering him."
"I love Kyrie," Rozier says. "But there were times this year when I wanted to say to him, 'Listen, you don't have reason to stress. You're Kyrie Irving. I'm the one that has reasons to stress.'"
 

reggiecleveland

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The last two games make me really worry about his physical ability. He had some favorable matchups and did not exploit them. Can't see him improving this over time.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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Tonight was the game you lay your mark down if you truly intend to stay. Instead he sleep walked all night.
This has to be parody, right?

Irving didn't play a perfect game by any stretch but he led the C's in minutes (41), points (29 with most of his efficiency coming at the line), assists (6) and he was tied for the team lead in steals (3).

And for anyone complaining about his defense, there is only so much he can do.
 

Captaincoop

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The last two games make me really worry about his physical ability. He had some favorable matchups and did not exploit them. Can't see him improving this over time.
Last night was the first time I had that thought. He can't turn the corner on some pretty vulnerable defenders right now.

Not to mention perennial all star George Hill was going by him on defense like he wasn't there.
 

ifmanis5

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I haven't been in the better without him camp. The ceiling for the team with him is so much higher since he has proven he can make the toughest shots at the highest level. However, if this is his playoff level of performance against the best teams going forward then I wonder if he is a max player after all.
 

Mloaf71

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Is he hiding an injury? He does seem like a different guy in games 2 and 3 than earlier in the playoffs.
 

djbayko

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I’ll add that he’s missed a lot of layups lately. The one super power Kyrie has always had was finishing at the rim, even in impossible situations.
 

MyDaughterLovesTomGordon

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I’ll add that he’s missed a lot of layups lately. The one super power Kyrie has always had was finishing at the rim, even in impossible situations.
This actually gives me hope. I feel like he's been looking back up at the rim like, "why didn't that go in?" There's got to be some bad luck variance in there. He didn't just lose that magic all of a sudden.
 

lovegtm

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Is he hiding an injury? He does seem like a different guy in games 2 and 3 than earlier in the playoffs.
Hot takes aside, this is the most likely answer if it’s not just variance. He doesn’t fully look like himself.
 

BigSoxFan

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To answer the question I posed to start the thread...

N-O-P-E

19 for 62 in Games 2-4. Just a complete choke job performance for one of the softest “stars” I’ve ever seen. Go to the Knicks. It will be fun beating you.
 

JCizzle

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To answer the question I posed to start the thread...

N-O-P-E

19 for 62 in Games 2-4. Just a complete choke job performance for one of the softest “stars” I’ve ever seen. Go to the Knicks. It will be fun beating you.
I know he's always been weird, but I almost wonder if he's dealing with some personal shit this year or something. I don't remember any issues with the chemistry last year, including when he was healthy?
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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I know he's always been weird, but I almost wonder if he's dealing with some personal shit this year or something. I don't remember any issues with the chemistry last year, including when he was healthy?
Yeah, he hasn't looked right. Mloaf7 and lovegtm speculated there might be an injury. Who knows but the guy has faced good defenses before and done well against them. He really seemed to struggle with getting space these past few games.

I want to be clear that I am not the biggest Irving fan out there but I think people are fooling themselves if they think Boston can easily replace his scoring. I would rather not see him go and see if the C's can get a true 1A player to go with him. Part of the problem is that there simply isn't a consistent number two scorer for this team.
 

Light-Tower-Power

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Maybe he’s hurt but his body language is shit just the same. I voted wait til the playoffs and after this it’s a pretty easy no from me dog.
 

SemperFidelisSox

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There’s a lot wrong with him mentally. He’s a talented basketball player who has delusions of being some kind of higher being on and off the basketball court. He’s not the activist he thinks he is, he isn’t the influencer he thinks he is, and he’s not the superstar he thinks he is.
 

teddykgb

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Yeah, he hasn't looked right. Mloaf7 and lovegtm speculated there might be an injury. Who knows but the guy has faced good defenses before and done well against them. He really seemed to struggle with getting space these past few games.

I want to be clear that I am not the biggest Irving fan out there but I think people are fooling themselves if they think Boston can easily replace his scoring. I would rather not see him go and see if the C's can get a true 1A player to go with him. Part of the problem is that there simply isn't a consistent number two scorer for this team.
He comes up the floor, looks off or waves off the motion, brings out the screen and forces his teammates to stand in the corner and watch him try to create. How is anyone going to be a true second scorer if you only get the ball sub 12 seconds after the play has mostly broken down?
 

BigSoxFan

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Yeah, he hasn't looked right. Mloaf7 and lovegtm speculated there might be an injury. Who knows but the guy has faced good defenses before and done well against them. He really seemed to struggle with getting space these past few games.

I want to be clear that I am not the biggest Irving fan out there but I think people are fooling themselves if they think Boston can easily replace his scoring. I would rather not see him go and see if the C's can get a true 1A player to go with him. Part of the problem is that there simply isn't a consistent number two scorer for this team.
I am under no illusion that Kyrie leaving would make us ‘better’ but he really sucked the life out of what should have been a really fun season. I trust Danny to do what’s best but Kyrie is probably gone. He is going to take some major Boston media heat and he won’t be able to handle it.
 

Light-Tower-Power

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What’s the alternative?
I doubt anyone wants to pay Rozier but maybe he’s closer to the guy he was in the playoffs last season if he’s out of Kyrie’s shadow? I’m not sure who’s available but maybe sign a defense and pass first PG to complement him? I don’t know I just know Kyrie isn’t it.
 
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