I wonder about this -- is this a message from the team that Bruce needs to go?
Bruins vs Golden Knights
- Thread starter kenneycb
- Start date
It has nothing to do with Bruce or coaching. The players just suck. They can’t score to begin with and it becomes impossible when you take two of their best wingers away.
Sure they can. For years, the team survived because they had two of the top 40 centres in the league in front of a consistently good goalie. They don’t anymore. Their prospect pool is puddle thin. They’ve failed to develop enough talent to offset guys leaving in free agency or trades. This likely gets worse before it gets better, especially if Bergeron goes into any kind of serious decline.
Personally, I would like to see if a different voice in the room would work before they go trading guys with 25-30 goal upside at his lowest point of value.
That being said, this is really on Sweeney for putting all of his off-season cap space into a bunch of stiffs. They would have been better off signing nobody and seeing what guys like Studnicka could do at this level.
I agree with you, but thing is, they don’t even grind well. Other than Marchand and Bergeron, they’re not good on the wall. The roster is full of either small guys that get knocked off the puck, or bigger guys that play small.
And I agree with you. What’s the answer? Why hasn’t Frederick pummeled someone? Has he been neutered?
I feel like we're seeing the disastrous long-term effects of the Sweeney regime's management style. Years of risk-averse drafting, rental trades, and wildly undervaluing offensive skill have left them with UFAs as their only viable player acquisition option. And even there Sweeney is not great, exemplifying "the high price of mediocrity" all too well. I get the sinking feeling that this team completely wasted years of a Hall of Fame line.
Personally I blame 2019. They got the flukiest trip to the SCF and thought for years that they were "just one piece away." They've been a middling 2nd round pretender for all of Cassidy's time as coach. And instead of creating a top-of-the-league 2nd line to put the team over, they've rotated through dozens of bottom-six plugs hoping that their one-off modest career-high 20ish goal seasons were indications of some breakout skill that the rest of the league completely missed. Also, I feel like they conflated the correlation of Corsi to playoff success as causation, and have created a team that perfectly illustrates how incomplete that analysis is as they wire weak wristers from low-danger areas night in and night out.
This year they're without the reliable elite goaltending that made that model viable, and it shows.
That was 3.5 years ago and he shot 18% to get to 27 goals He has obviously butted heads with Bruce and maybe a new voice would be beneficial for him, he kind of is what he is.
I feel like Cassidy is really good at putting his stars in a position to be stars, something Claude wasn't necessarily good at, but I don't think he is good at getting his role players and depth players to play better.
This was okay when they had two great lines and a Tuukka, but now 13 of their 18 skaters are depth players, and all of them are playing worse than their career numbers.
I'm hoping they will gel as the season goes on, but an already fucked schedule on top of Covid weariness isn't going to help.
This was okay when they had two great lines and a Tuukka, but now 13 of their 18 skaters are depth players, and all of them are playing worse than their career numbers.
I'm hoping they will gel as the season goes on, but an already fucked schedule on top of Covid weariness isn't going to help.
Another thing that scares me is how the forwards are sneaky old, inflexible in their roles, and the prospect pool can’t offset that. Their forwards born after 1992 are basically bottom-line cannon fodder, lottery tickets, and Pastrnak. At least the defence has some decent prospects in kids like Zboril (dangerously close to “too old” territory), Vaakanainen, and Lohrei to look forward to.
I’ll bet you the amount of your choice to the charity of your choice he doesn’t score 30 goals or more in either of the next…2 seasons? If he scores <25 I win, 25-29 it’s a wash, and if it’s 30 or more I lose. Deal?
I guess we have different definitions of the upside. I never said it was probable, or even likely. No I wouldn’t bet on him scoring 25 next year, but he has done it before, and he’s still a young player, so it’s not out of the realm of possibility.
So instead of trading a player that could possibly be a good offensive player, why not see if a different coach would work for him, and the several other young players that can’t seem to get into the lineup over veteran stiffs?
Or we could just keep rolling out the same veteran mediocrity over and over again and hope it changes.
I mean we all know where I stand but he's 5th on the team in goals playing with junk. He was really good on the road trip. Looked good on the PP. Killed penalties. Scored a goal. And tonight was a perfect opportunity to reward him a bit and bump him up a line and reward him a bit and see what he can do with people that can actually play the game.
Nope.
Nope.
Man it’s so obvious that this guy is just waiting to score 30 goals with just a little more playing time yet no one in the NHL will trade for him at a heavily discounted price. It’s crazy that the entire league just can’t see what’s clearly obvious that he just needs 2nd line minutes instead of 3rd line minutes.
This roster is not good. The coaching is meh but the roster stinks. Cassidy is good at milking his top line because it’s all he has. Blaming this on the coach is ridiculous. He can’t play guys who are in the AHL.
This roster is not good. The coaching is meh but the roster stinks. Cassidy is good at milking his top line because it’s all he has. Blaming this on the coach is ridiculous. He can’t play guys who are in the AHL.
25 and 30 are pretty similar in the NHL. DeBrusk is getting worse, not better.
you're right. no sense trying anything different. won't work. everything's fine. stay the course.
Clearly.
I mean this team sucks. JDB is not their savior. I clearly would love to give Studnicka and some other guys some time but can’t really do that when they’re in the AHL. I’m directing my ire purely at the front office and the players, with a small amount (but not nothing) towards the coaching staff.
But I’m sure if we put DeBrusk with Coyle he’ll break out for those 25 goals.
I love you, but you're picking a fight where there isn't one to be picked. Nobody in this thread is saying what you're insinuating. DeBrusk isn't the savior, but he's clearly another talent that has been mishandled.
I said it last year, but was a bit too early. This team has been treading water for a couple years. They rode the horses without investing in incremental improvement. Now they suck. It was obvious this was coming.
Time for an overhaul of the front office.
This was me responding to a straw man with a straw man with a dabble of hyperbole for effect.
I would argue on the mishandled part given he’s been given every chance to not suck prior to this year on a previously good second line until they couldn’t handle the suck anymore and had to move him down because it gave them the best chance to win.
I don't know the right answer honestly. He was a young kid with lots of potential that fell off a cliff. There's a lot of blame to go around when that happens, including with him obviously.
The sad part is that the unwatchable crew includes the only Hart Trophy winner on the roster, the guy they wish they drafted in 2010.
I think it's pretty clear that what happened was Nazem Kadri. And I'm willing to give him a pass the year after because coming back from something like that sucks for a lot of players for a lot longer then people would think. All I'm saying is it seems like he's done what they wanted from him this year but he's in Bruce's doghouse that has no exits.
And I'm ready for a full front office cleaning.
FWIW, I think the dog house extends beyond Jake. Reilly and Clifton are there too. Bruce is a defensive first guy. When I doubt, he'll lean into defense. He's trying to win games 2-1 right now, which might be the right call given the roster he's been given. Problem is, 2 goals is tall order for this team at full strength let alone missing Marchand and Smith.
By almost any measure, Reilly and Clifton have been better players than Forbort and Carlo this year. Reilly and Clifton get press box treatment though, while Carlo and Forbort have yet to be sat for performance issues. If a guy makes a mistake and over pursues, makes a bad decision on a pinch, or gets himself out of position in the offensive end that crreates a chance against, that's what gets you in Bruce's doghouse. Forbort and Carlo don't make those kinds of mistakes because they never get in that type of position in the first place because they're just having circles skated around them in the defensive zone and hoping to chip it out off the glass and change. This is kind of what happened to Jake.
By almost any measure, Reilly and Clifton have been better players than Forbort and Carlo this year. Reilly and Clifton get press box treatment though, while Carlo and Forbort have yet to be sat for performance issues. If a guy makes a mistake and over pursues, makes a bad decision on a pinch, or gets himself out of position in the offensive end that crreates a chance against, that's what gets you in Bruce's doghouse. Forbort and Carlo don't make those kinds of mistakes because they never get in that type of position in the first place because they're just having circles skated around them in the defensive zone and hoping to chip it out off the glass and change. This is kind of what happened to Jake.
This is a sneaky part of the uncomfortable direction this team is taking and is getting obscured by the DeBrusk saga. If Hall just happily cashed in a couple months of inspired play at the end of last year and is retreating to his level of play in Buffalo, that's a dagger.
Or maybe he just needs someone more skilled to play with than Charlie Coyle, for whom it could also be stated, happily cashed in a couple months of inspired play at the end of 2019, and has retreating to his level of play in Minnesota, which is a real dagger for a team desperate for a number 2 center.
To me, Coyle is the most aggravating player on this roster because we’ve seen what he can be when he’s engaged and motivated. Last year’s excuse was the knee. What’s his excuse this year?
Well, I miss David Krejci so much it hurts. I can only imagine how Hall feels. He and Coyle are a pretty good pairing on paper, but not on the ice, so far.