Bruins Round 2 Thread- New York Islanders

Ferm Sheller

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I think Tuukka's public image problem is that Tim Thomas set a high bar (to say the least) with his play in the 2011 playoffs. Tuukka's capable of playing that well, but it's not fair to expect it or to chastise him because he doesn't. That performance by Thomas was one of the greatest, if not the greatest, playoff runs by a goaltender in the 40+ years that I've been following the NHL.
 

TFP

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That performance by Thomas was one of the greatest, if not the greatest, playoff runs by a goaltender in the 40+ years that I've been following the NHL.
Rask in 2019 was better, he just lost the last game. He wins Game 7 and everything changes.
 

TFP

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Which isn't fair. That was a team loss.
Oh of course - I wasn't pinning it on him nor saying it's fair. Just the reality of how he's perceived. I was putting the onus on those doing the perceiving, not Tuukka himself, that was sloppily worded.
 

biff_hardbody

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What I like so much about Cassidy’s comments is how honest and specific and respectful they are. He‘s right that NHL refs don’t “call what they see“ and he’s right that coaches don’t get fined for making comments as civil as Cassidy made.
This is an interesting thought to me. I agree that Cassidy is respectful and civil, and on a human level I have tremendous admiration for his attitude in the face of adversity. However, the refs are human, they don't want to be embarrassed, and I'm not sure being respectful the way Cassidy was makes the most of his opportunity when he could instead just lay into the officials. It did not save him any money, at least. As someone mentioned above, I'm not sure he got his money's worth.

I think you can compare Cassidy's comments to litigation. Litigators are encouraged to be civil and respectful. Many are, some aren't. In my opinion, the best litigators are civil and in doing so lose nothing in their ability to dismantle the opposing argument. However, many who are full on aggressive 100% of the time seem to, in my limited experience, have some success in persuading Courts that they are correct and the opposing side is totally out of line. Their disdain is part of their persuasion. After all, if you aren't offended by the opposing argument, maybe there is some credence to it. As someone mentioned above, it is war, and the same is true of Cassidy's statements about the officials.

For better or for worse, I think that full on attacking what you perceive as total bullshit calls could be a more effective strategy than Cassidy's "they are good refs they just aren't calling it fairly in our opinion" statements. Again I appreciate Cassidy's respectful approach, but I think he might be leaving something on the table by not being more aggressive. We shall see.
 

Salem's Lot

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Whether or not Rask is back with the Bruins next year is going to depend entirely on how messed up his back really is (if he needs surgery, how this might hinder him going forward, etc) and what kind of contract he’s looking for.

If Swayman has to start tonight because Rask’s back injury won’t allow him to play effectively, it will have zero impact on management’s decision for next year.
 

reggiecleveland

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The days of an athlete being run out of town by bad press are in the past. Dick Young is dead and gone. Players make so much money, and front offices use analytics. Player's agents have just as much influence through social media, etc, as the teams. If Rask does not come back it won't be because people on call in shows or Bruins boards want him gone.
 

Smiling Joe Hesketh

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I think Tuukka's public image problem is that Tim Thomas set a high bar (to say the least) with his play in the 2011 playoffs. Tuukka's capable of playing that well, but it's not fair to expect it or to chastise him because he doesn't. That performance by Thomas was one of the greatest, if not the greatest, playoff runs by a goaltender in the 40+ years that I've been following the NHL.
(sotto voce) Thomas was by and large poor against TB that year. Of course, winning 1-0 in Game 7 changes the perception of that, but he was not good in that series.

Obv he was ridiculous the rest of that run.
 

TFP

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2013 might've been his best work. He had a .940 that post season. Same save percentage Thomas posted in 2011.
Haha it sure helps when you give up 2 goals total in a series against the top offensive team in the league.
 

jezza1918

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(sotto voce) Thomas was by and large poor against TB that year. Of course, winning 1-0 in Game 7 changes the perception of that, but he was not good in that series.

Obv he was ridiculous the rest of that run.
I did a relatively deep dive on stats comparing 11/13/19 yesterday for a group text thread and below is what I came up with:
Thomas 2011 playoffs
.940/1.98/.68 qs%/20.7 gssa/4 shutouts
Rask 2013 playoffs
.940/1.88/.77 qs&/12.8 gsaa/3 shutouts
Rask 2019 Playoffs
.934/2.02/.79 qs %/13.0 gsaa/2 shutouts

In both cup runs, rask gave his team more of a chance to win than thomas did (based on the QS% stat)...but also didnt steal as many goals and games as thomas.

in 2011 thomas gave up 4 or more goals 5 times, team record was 2-3 (one of those wins came 5-4 OT against Montreal in game 4 of round 1, if the team offense doesnt step up that night, the rest of the run likely doesnt happen).
in 2013 rask gave up 4 or more goals 5 times, team record was 1-4.
in 2019 rask gave up 4 or more goals 4 times, team record was 1-3.

If the 2013 and 2019 offenses step up in just one more game each season, Rask probably has two stanley cups. Conversely, if they don't in 2011, Thomas has none.
 

cshea

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Haha it sure helps when you give up 2 goals total in a series against the top offensive team in the league.
22 games and he let up more than 3 goals only 5 times, one of which was a triple overtime game. Another 4 goal game was against the Rangers when he fell down trying to play a dumped in dribbler and it went in.

The shit he gets in this town from fans and media is ridiculous.
 

Melrose Diner

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Grit, veterans, etc. but I'd be OK with that fourth line getting roughly 4 minutes of ice time tonight. Not sure Kuraly has done a single positive thing this series.
 

cshea

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DeBrusk getting another chance. I really hope he seizes it.
They don't really have options. It was either Jake or someone off the black aces. Sometimes it can't be avoided, but when they can, they try to avoid putting idle players into the playoff lineup.

I'm a little surprised they're flipping Jake and Ritchie though. 21 - 13 - 83 was pretty good on Monday. Figured they'd leave that line alone and just put Jake in as 4LW and kick Kuraly to C. It's probably a zone start thing, they'd prefer Ritchie defensively to Jake which is important given the 4th line's absurd d zone start usage.
 

Myt1

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Rask in 2019 was better, he just lost the last game. He wins Game 7 and everything changes.
Thomas had a higher save percentage, a better GAA, a better Goals Against Percentage, and faced the number 1, 3, 7, and 25 scoring offenses in the playoffs. He saved about 50% more goals above average in 2011 than Rask did in 2019.

Rask faced the number 4, 12, 15, and 16 offenses.

That Thomas playoff run is the best in Bruins history, and in the conversation for the best in the history of the game.
 

Myt1

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They don't really have options. It was either Jake or someone off the black aces. Sometimes it can't be avoided, but when they can, they try to avoid putting idle players into the playoff lineup.

I'm a little surprised they're flipping Jake and Ritchie though. 21 - 13 - 83 was pretty good on Monday. Figured they'd leave that line alone and just put Jake in as 4LW and kick Kuraly to C. It's probably a zone start thing, they'd prefer Ritchie defensively to Jake which is important given the 4th line's absurd d zone start usage.
For Game 5, I’d have sat Ritchie and flipped Jake back to left wing. Two moves for the price of one. I think it would also have sent the message to DeBrusk that the team was doing what it could to put him in a position to succeed.

Far from a mortal sin, but it struck me as a missed opportunity.
 

TFP

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Thomas had a higher save percentage, a better GAA, a better Goals Against Percentage, and faced the number 1, 3, 7, and 25 scoring offenses in the playoffs. He saved about 50% more goals above average in 2011 than Rask did in 2019.

Rask faced the number 4, 12, 15, and 16 offenses.

That Thomas playoff run is the best in Bruins history, and in the conversation for the best in the history of the game.
And Tuukka gave up more than 3 goals only twice the entire playoffs, and never more than 4. He was absurdly consistent, whereas Thomas had maybe the best series ever in the SCF which was where he was insane to make up for a very mediocre conference finals. But that's fair, I'll allow that Tuukka's 2nd best playoff performance was slightly worse than one of the best playoff runs in the history of the game. ;)
 

Myt1

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And Tuukka gave up more than 3 goals only twice the entire playoffs, and never more than 4. He was absurdly consistent, whereas Thomas had maybe the best series ever in the SCF which was where he was insane. But fair, I'll allow that Tuukka's 2nd best playoff performance was slightly worse than "one of the best playoff runs in playoff hockey history".
I don’t know if I have enough scotch to get me through tonight.
 

TFP

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I don’t know if I have enough scotch to get me through tonight.
Sheesh you replied before I could even edit my post. You should know I need to re-read and edit mine at least 3 times before they're considered final.

I think I'm staying sober tonight. Need a clear head.
 

tims4wins

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Thomas also was more or less completely to blame for the game 2 OT loss in the SCF, was he not? Also, he was aided by 4-0 and 8-1 beatings on home ice. He didn't have to work particularly hard in a couple of those games. Not trying to diminish his performance but imagine if Tuukka had given up the same game 2 OT goal?
 

Myt1

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Sheesh you replied before I could even edit my post. You should know I need to re-read and edit mine at least 3 times before they're considered final.

I think I'm staying sober tonight. Need a clear head.
Well, obviously I was hovering, waiting for you.

Thomas also was more or less completely to blame for the game 2 OT loss in the SCF, was he not? Also, he was aided by 4-0 and 8-1 beatings on home ice. He didn't have to work particularly hard in a couple of those games. Not trying to diminish his performance but imagine if Tuukka had given up the same game 2 OT goal?
The stats are the stats. And my understanding is that the Bruins’ internal advanced metrics indicate that Thomas faced more high danger shots than any goalie in playoff history, at least as long as those sorts of stats had been kept.
 

Smiling Joe Hesketh

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Thomas also was more or less completely to blame for the game 2 OT loss in the SCF, was he not? Also, he was aided by 4-0 and 8-1 beatings on home ice. He didn't have to work particularly hard in a couple of those games. Not trying to diminish his performance but imagine if Tuukka had given up the same game 2 OT goal?
I believe that Game 2 was 11 seconds into the first OT. And Thomas was completely awful on that goal.

Also in Game 6 the Bruins chased Luongo in the 1st with 3 quick goals so Thomas had the pressure off early in that game too.
 

Myt1

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I believe that Game 2 was 11 seconds into the first OT. And Thomas was completely awful on that goal.

Also in Game 6 the Bruins chased Luongo in the 1st with 3 quick goals so Thomas had the pressure off early in that game too.
He gave up 1, 3, 1, 0, 1, 2, and 0 goals to the best offense in the league, and they were all still out there when Luongo got pulled.
 

jezza1918

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He gave up 1, 3, 1, 0, 1, 2, and 0 goals to the best offense in the league, and they were all still out there when Luongo got pulled.
What he did against in Vancouver, collectively over those 7 games, is one of the greatest things I've witnessed as a sports fan. That said, and this is what I say to the Rask haters on my text thread that always bring up Thomas' 2011 run, they don't even get to Vancouver if Thomas' bad performances weren't bailed out by the team twice (game 4 against Montreal, game 2 against Tampa). Rask did not stand on his head the same way in 2013 or 2019, but gave his team an equal* chance to win, albeit in a different way.

*edit: maybe not quite equal, but both of those runs he played well enough to earn Stanley Cups. I bet if you stood his 2013/19 numbers up against winning goalie runs over past 20 years or so they'd be just as in, if not better, in many cases. If the Bruins win tonight maybe Ill do that tomorrow. If not the hangover will be intense enough that I'll just forget about hockey until October.
 

Myt1

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Given Carlo’s latest head injury (and the way it happened), do you still protect him in the expansion draft? Is Clifton the other option? TFP gave me a sanity check earlier, but I’m interested in what others have to say.

This might belong somewhere else, but I couldn’t find a better thread.
 

Salem's Lot

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Given Carlo’s latest head injury (and the way it happened), do you still protect him in the expansion draft? Is Clifton the other option?
Yes. Carlo would be a valuable trade chip if they wanted to move him. He’s too valuable to give away for nothing.
 

RIFan

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I think Tuukka's public image problem is that Tim Thomas set a high bar (to say the least) with his play in the 2011 playoffs. Tuukka's capable of playing that well, but it's not fair to expect it or to chastise him because he doesn't. That performance by Thomas was one of the greatest, if not the greatest, playoff runs by a goaltender in the 40+ years that I've been following the NHL.
The public image problem is that Tuukka is so damn good he makes it look easy very often. He positions himself exceptionally and moves post to post so smoothly that it doesn't look like he is making much effort. Thomas would bail himself from being out of position out by throwing himself at the puck. He's a dirt dog type that Boston fans embrace. Thomas was absolutely stellar in 2011, but he also benefited from better relative health of the team in front of him than what Tuukka had in 2019.
 

Haunted

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I don’t know if I have enough scotch to get me through tonight.
Yeah... I'm skipping the scotch tonight and sticking with the irish. And the greenery. Still not sure there's enough...
 

Myt1

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Yeah... I'm skipping the scotch tonight and sticking with the irish. And the greenery. Still not sure there's enough...
If I go Irish, my bottle of Jamie ain’t gonna make it to the second intermission. I’m really ridiculously fat now, and I could drink it like water even eight years or so ago.
 

Mystic Merlin

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I think nursing 1-2 drinks is what will do it for me. Just taking the edge off a bit does wonders during these games, spiking adrenaline for large stretches over 2.5 hours isn’t ideal.

If the officiating continues to be a horror show I may need to escalate.
 
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NickEsasky

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If I go Irish, my bottle of Jamie ain’t gonna make it to the second intermission. I’m really ridiculously fat now, and I could drink it like water even eight years or so ago.
Sounds like the Bruins should start you in net.

41792
 

Haunted

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If I go Irish, my bottle of Jamie ain’t gonna make it to the second intermission. I’m really ridiculously fat now, and I could drink it like water even eight years or so ago.
I found a bottle of Powers that I'm trying to pace myself with, but that may not happen tonight.
 

wiffleballhero

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Well, I learned one thing in this series:

In the NHL, if you are going to do the time, you might as well do the crime.

This series was beyond garbage with the officiating, to the point where it made the NBA look great. But the Bruins are in a trap -- if they play clean they both get fucked by the refs and don't get any of the benefits of being goons. Losing stance.
 

lexrageorge

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Not looking forward to the post-mortem for this one. Sucks to lose to an inferior team in the playoffs.
 

kenneycb

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Well, I learned one thing in this series:

In the NHL, if you are going to do the time, you might as well do the crime.

This series was beyond garbage with the officiating, to the point where it made the NBA look great. But the Bruins are in a trap -- if they play clean they both get fucked by the refs and don't get any of the benefits of being goons. Losing stance.
The Bruins didn’t lose because of the refs. They lost because they got no production from anybody outside their first line.
 

jk333

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The Bruins didn’t lose because of the refs. They lost because they got no production from anybody outside their first line.
And the D were very injured. But the bottom 6 were awful. Beyond not producing, they were outskated, outhit and overall useless.