The bolded is why they should flush and revamp the coaching staff, not the entire roster.
Bruins Offseason
- Thread starter MiracleOfO2704
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I'd love to see it, but I highly doubt this will happen. Not the way the organization does things.
So this is kind of a larger question about mental fortitude...but iirc that squad was 3-1 that postseason when facing elimination (down 3-2 to Toronto and win on road, then dominate at home), and down 3-2 in the cup finals before a dominating road win. So how do we square the fact that the team that very much did turtle in game 7, showed pretty exemplary mental fortitude with their backs against the wall 3 times previously?
How do you build a team that doesn’t lose game 7’s? A lot of this talk is silly. Winning in sports is hard. Both teams are trying to win in the playoffs, anything can happen, etc etc. Yeah it’s frustrating when your team loses, but why does it have to be some kind of indictment of some kind of process or coaching or intestinal fortitude or whatever? It sucks this group of guys didn’t get it done, but they certainly could have. Just didn’t.
It's pretty simple: you square it up by noting that they didn't have enough character and fortitude to win the Cup when the chance was right there for the taking.
The 2011 team was down 2-0 and 3-2 in Round 1. Down 2-0 and 3-2 in the Final, and won Game 7 on the road. They had enough. They faced more adversity along the way and still had enough to win it.
That 2019 team simply did not. With the Cup right there for the taking they proceeded to step on rakes. That's a huge mark against them.
Normally I would agree with you, but this team putting up 135 points in the regular season only to squander a 3-1 playoff series lead is a hell of a lot more damning than a 6 seed losing Game 7 on the road to a 3 seed or something like that.
It's never the answer to throw up one's hands and say "shit happens." And especially this year. They collapsed. Coaches, players, everyone completely collapsed. A properly run organization will use this opportunity to do some serious self-scouting to address any flaws.
How to build a team that wins Game 7s? I dunno, but I suspect the answer is to get some real sons of bitches in there. Tkachuk is a piece of shit but he was the type of player the Bruins badly needed.
But your post that I was responding to seemed to imply the 2019 showed no evidence of mental fortitude (if I'm reading that incorrectly, I apologize). My point is they showed plenty evidence of it...if they had lost game 6 on the road to the Blues would that somehow have been better? They showed a ton of character winning that game on the road, and then showed the opposite.
Or, in sports, judging character based on the results might be a bit much?
edit: quick add, happy to take this back and forth to PM...just because I think it's a very interesting discussion that's only partially related to the offseason
In sports we always judge character on results. That's pro sports for you. If there's bad luck involved you can take that into account but at the end of the day the only thing that matters is results. You can take into account the talent disparity of the teams (the 2008 Bruins don't get crap for their no-show in Game 7 because it was an upset they even made it that far) but in the end the results are the prime mover.
I don't think 2019 is too hard to figure: they had enough gumption to win a Game 6 on the road (and truth be told Tuukka stole that game), and then proceded to collapse in Game 7 at home. They simply didn't have it when it counted. They didn't lose Game 7 because of bad luck, they lost because they didn't show up. Marchand brain-farting on the second goal was pretty clear evidence that their heads were not in the game.
But all but one team collapses / doesn’t show up / chokes when it comes down to it. That’s sports. Of course, the organization should take a look at what went wrong and try to get better, and I’m sure they will.
Agreed that we do it, I just don't think it's the right thing to do in most cases... As to the bolded, my pushback remains the same - did game 6 on the road not count? Did game 6 on the road against toronto not count?
I don't believe that's true. I don't think that the Bruins team that, say, lost to Ottawa in 6 games choked, for example. They weren't as good and played hard and lost the series. 2008 was a fun series even though they lost. I don't think Tampa choked in Game 7 against the Bruins in 2011 either.
But collapses and chokes absolutely do happen all the time.
Of course they counted. They simply don't count for enough to balance out what happened in Game 7. To use a baseball example, the Bruins got positive WAR from those two games you mentioned but more than enough negative WAR from Game 7 to negate that. It's not enough to win Game 6 on the road only to get blown out in Game 7 at home. As the stakes go up the effort matters more than ever.
Hope 37 comes back for one final run. Could do without 46. Cap means losing most if not all of your deadline pieces. Otherwise good goalie, top D, good enough lines with room to grow. Inject youth, energy, and violence.
Anyway, some other details that'll need to be sorted out:
Part of next year's cap preview is couched in the idea that Mike Reilly will spend his last season buried in Providence. Depending how things go, that could be moot (if he's traded) or wrong (if they move a defenceman without replacement and he has to come up). So it's his cap hit less $1 million if he stays buried, or full freight if he's with the Bruins.
The prominent guys in Providence right now that will be RFAs with arbitration rights are Marc McLaughlin and Brandon Bussi. I can imagine two way deals may suffice for both, but the reality is at least one of them is likely with the Bruins next season, so we'll have to see.
Doing this up without any idea of what Bergeron wants to do may be a fool's errand, but I don't think you can afford to take too much time to find out. We're about a month and a half away from the close of the current season, then they have to start filling the holes for next season. And considering Bergeron, along with Krejci, really have nothing left to prove at this point, I don't really see either coming back. That said, I'll take being wrong.
But, to give everyone a visual of what they're likely up against in the offseason, this is what they'll have far less than $6 million to fill:
Marchand/Zacha/Pastrnak
Hall/Coyle/DeBrusk
XXX/Frederic (my WAG: $2.5m AAV)/Lauko (WAG: $1.5m)
XXX/XXX/XXX
McAvoy/Grzelcyk
Carlo/Lindholm
Forbort/Zboril
Ullmark
Swayman (WAG: $3m AAV)
If my WAGs are accurate, that $6 million is now down to less than $3 million to find a 3LW/RW (Lauko can do both, apparently), an entire 4th line, and any extras they want to carry for injuries/illnesses through the season.
Part of next year's cap preview is couched in the idea that Mike Reilly will spend his last season buried in Providence. Depending how things go, that could be moot (if he's traded) or wrong (if they move a defenceman without replacement and he has to come up). So it's his cap hit less $1 million if he stays buried, or full freight if he's with the Bruins.
The prominent guys in Providence right now that will be RFAs with arbitration rights are Marc McLaughlin and Brandon Bussi. I can imagine two way deals may suffice for both, but the reality is at least one of them is likely with the Bruins next season, so we'll have to see.
Doing this up without any idea of what Bergeron wants to do may be a fool's errand, but I don't think you can afford to take too much time to find out. We're about a month and a half away from the close of the current season, then they have to start filling the holes for next season. And considering Bergeron, along with Krejci, really have nothing left to prove at this point, I don't really see either coming back. That said, I'll take being wrong.
But, to give everyone a visual of what they're likely up against in the offseason, this is what they'll have far less than $6 million to fill:
Marchand/Zacha/Pastrnak
Hall/Coyle/DeBrusk
XXX/Frederic (my WAG: $2.5m AAV)/Lauko (WAG: $1.5m)
XXX/XXX/XXX
McAvoy/Grzelcyk
Carlo/Lindholm
Forbort/Zboril
Ullmark
Swayman (WAG: $3m AAV)
If my WAGs are accurate, that $6 million is now down to less than $3 million to find a 3LW/RW (Lauko can do both, apparently), an entire 4th line, and any extras they want to carry for injuries/illnesses through the season.
I wonder if they'll seek to trade Ullmark. He has 2/10 on his deal to go IIRC, and at this point they may just wanna ride with the younger Swayman.
Is there any reasonable--or unreasonable--expectation of retaining Bertuzzi?
Anyone want to show me the math on how it might be done? Thanks in advance to whomever wants to take a crack at it.
Edit: I think @MiracleOfO2704 answered my question (above). *sigh*
Anyone want to show me the math on how it might be done? Thanks in advance to whomever wants to take a crack at it.
Edit: I think @MiracleOfO2704 answered my question (above). *sigh*
It's a possibility. That means trusting the keys to two guys with a combined 88 games of NHL experience, though, and while an Ullmark trade at the height of his value makes a ton of sense, I don't know how risky Sweeney will want to be there.
His value is probably at the peak right now - Vezina-quality season, and the playoff meltdown will probably be attributed to injury. Wonder what he would net in return?
Ullmark has a no-trade. 16-team no list. Also, goalies don't get traded ofen and when they do they usually bring jack shit in return.
I think Grzelyck is gone to free up cap room and recoup some futures. 1 year left at $3.6 million, analytics darling. I'd keep him but he clearly fell out of favor this year.
I think Grzelyck is gone to free up cap room and recoup some futures. 1 year left at $3.6 million, analytics darling. I'd keep him but he clearly fell out of favor this year.
I won't say never, but they'd have to move a lot of money out. His actual cap hit was $4.75m this season, and he's a UFA. Skill set's unique as a down low playmaker on a wing, but I still think $6.5m AAV is a likely landing spot.
16 teams? Holy shit.
I'd still check on it though. I like him a lot, but facts are facts and the playoffs have not been his friend. He could represent an upgrade for a lot of teams though. Washington comes to mind off the top of my head. LA too.
Because they are currently under contract and, by your definition, most players in the league have shown that they cannot win in the playoffs. So, with whom are you going to replace them?
I mean, there’s blended agency here, right? If Gryz had crashed into Swayman and knocked him out of the play, would he still have “cracked first” because the puck didn’t find the shaft of his stick? Is Bobrovsky a different player after OT last night, in what he can and cannot do, or does that only apply to Bruins?
Developing kids (i.e., quality low cost players) is literally the only option. The real question is striking the balance of how many to try and develop. To be clear, I'm agreeing with your sentiment, but more so the latter statement. Not sure about stapling 1sts ATM--we need those picks.
JDB had 4 goals and 6 points. I'd argue with your other points, but this is a lot of bluster.
I agree the core is fine, and the key is how they build around it. I'm not ready to dump Monty yet, and he's still an inexperienced coach in the playoffs. He's gotta learn from this though.
I agree that you don't trade either guy, but I don't think Hampus was good, or better than Charlie. Charlie also wasn't good.
I agree--you don't "blow this up". Deals you don't like at any given moment (e.g., Hampus) tend to look fine even if the player regresses a bit (i.e., going from 1st pair to 2nd) as the deal ages, and you adjust accordingly. You just need a lot of talent on a team to do well in playoffs. If your 7M guy plays like it or better, you're in great shape! If he plays like a 4-5M guy, that's manageable. When he starts playing like a 1-3M guy, well then it's real problem.
I think the problem is whatever money you free up with Grzelcyk out may be offset by having to use Reilly again, unless he's gone too. Then they're probably rushing a Lohrei up to Boston.
Washington blew it up and has Kuemper signed for 4 more years at $5.25 million AAV. I don't think they'll be in the market for another $5 million AAV goalie.
LA is a bit more plausible but they're paying off $5 million AAV a year to Cal Peterson who was burried in the AHL all year.
I can see the logic to trading Ullmark but I don't think the Bruins would get value in return. The goalie trade market is usually not a robust one.
I think the value would come from his cap hit being on someone else's books, if that's the avenue they're choosing.
FTR, I don't see this FO being eager to leave the crease to two arbitration eligible RFAs with less than 100 NHL games (and only ~250 professional games) between them.
Has anything come out about an injury to Ullmark? He was clearly not physically right from Game 5 onwards.
I doubt it. All of the non-hardcore fans will crawl back to other parts of the site today and it'll die down and this thread will be carried by the usual suspects.
I'll never do that. I enjoy different perspectives.
I will gatekeep people saying dumb shit though.
I feel like "retooling and trying again", with this cap crunch and roster and farm system and draft capital, is nothing more than a slow descent into the worst possible position: mediocrity. Battling for 8th seed. Never getting good draft positions, never really being a contender.
The problem is that the alternative, blowing it up, does not really work in the NHL unless and until a team is destined to miss the playoffs anyway. Even then a blow up and rebuild often takes 10 years.
One benefit of the cap crunch, or at least I hope is a benefit of the cap crunch, is that Sweeney has no opportunity to do the one thing that he has been really bad at as GM—signing bad and/or aging veterans to mid-level contracts for too many years. About $8.5 mil for Forbort/Foligno/Reilly this year. And really it has been a run of bad deals like this for the last decade or so. Is it the reason they lost? Not technically, no, but when a series comes down to 7 games and two OT losses and mistakes around the edges, maybe it adds up. Whatever happens moving forward they need to end the love affair with this type, because if they can't level up in the playoffs then they have no use at all.
it's fine to sign guys for grit but put the scouting to work and do it on the cheap, Old Man Recchi-style. Otherwise, time to see if we can actually integrate and develop some young players.
it's fine to sign guys for grit but put the scouting to work and do it on the cheap, Old Man Recchi-style. Otherwise, time to see if we can actually integrate and develop some young players.
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I'm not gatekeeping anything. I'm mocking irrational game thread quality posts on the main board here. Which is why I intentionally provided a place for that kind of thing.
And yes, any post that wants to "tear the whole thing down" is irrational.
To some degree, but plenty of the regulars are still in early grief stages and thrashing about wildly. This thread needed a week or so before it would be productive. Gonna require some serious separating the wheat from the chaff if we stick with this thread for analysis.
The Bruins have $72.9 million in player cap committments for next year. Additionally they reportedly have another $4.5 million in bonus charges to carry on next years cap. So that takes their total salary cap commitments to $77.4 million, which covers 14 players. The cap is expected to go up $1 million to $83.5 million. So, the Bruins have $6.1 million in which to fill out 6-8 roster spots.
We'll see what they do. Reilly could be ticketed for a buy out. That saves $1.6 million next year. They could trade him but this front office has never straight up salary dumped a player. Especially given all the futures they sent out the door at the deadline, I don't see them attaching another pick/player to get out from under Reilly If he goes, I suspect it would be in a larger deal, unless there is a team that is willing to take a chance on him in the final year of his deal. Another factor is Reilly's actual salary is much higher than this cap hit at $4 million next year. Grzelcyk seems to have fallen out of favor. His cap hit is $3.875 million and his actual cash owed is $4.25 million. His analytics are always extremely strong. I suspect he's a player they'd have no problem finding a taker for and also would get some value back in return. The only problem if you buy out Reilly and trade Grzelyck is you suddently don't have much LHD depth. It's basically Lindholm, Forbort and then Zboril and Lohrei or whoever they pick up on the cheap in free agency. Plus they may need Zboril to fill out the right because Clifton is gone in all likelihood. All in all, I think the move here may be to send Grzelyck out and play Reilly and do the LHD dance at the deadline next year if they are in it.
The forwards are somewhat tricky. They basically don't have a 3rd or 4th line at the moment:
Marchand - Coyle - Pastrnak
Hall - Zacha - DeBrusk
XXXX - Frederic - XXXX
XXXX - XXXXX - Greer
Bergeron coming back would givem them a solid top 8. I have a hard time seeing them moving any of these guys out for salary relief. If they lose Bergeron and Krejci plus a DeBrusk or Hall...that seems like the nuclear tear down path. It doesn't seem too viable or likely. I think they'll try to run it back. Depending on what his arb numbers look like, I may try to dangle Frederic. 2 years in a row, 2 different coaches he's hit the bench in the playoffs. It's not trimming a lot but it might be doable and he'd probably bring in a modest return. They could probably fill out the rest with Providence guys. Lauko should be cheap to re-sign and looks like he can play in the NHL. McLaughlin can probably play a 4th line wing role. Merkulov and Lysell are knocking on the door but I'd prefer to leave them in Providence unless they blow doors off in camp. Brett Harrison might my a dark horse candidate.
We'll see what they do. Reilly could be ticketed for a buy out. That saves $1.6 million next year. They could trade him but this front office has never straight up salary dumped a player. Especially given all the futures they sent out the door at the deadline, I don't see them attaching another pick/player to get out from under Reilly If he goes, I suspect it would be in a larger deal, unless there is a team that is willing to take a chance on him in the final year of his deal. Another factor is Reilly's actual salary is much higher than this cap hit at $4 million next year. Grzelcyk seems to have fallen out of favor. His cap hit is $3.875 million and his actual cash owed is $4.25 million. His analytics are always extremely strong. I suspect he's a player they'd have no problem finding a taker for and also would get some value back in return. The only problem if you buy out Reilly and trade Grzelyck is you suddently don't have much LHD depth. It's basically Lindholm, Forbort and then Zboril and Lohrei or whoever they pick up on the cheap in free agency. Plus they may need Zboril to fill out the right because Clifton is gone in all likelihood. All in all, I think the move here may be to send Grzelyck out and play Reilly and do the LHD dance at the deadline next year if they are in it.
The forwards are somewhat tricky. They basically don't have a 3rd or 4th line at the moment:
Marchand - Coyle - Pastrnak
Hall - Zacha - DeBrusk
XXXX - Frederic - XXXX
XXXX - XXXXX - Greer
Bergeron coming back would givem them a solid top 8. I have a hard time seeing them moving any of these guys out for salary relief. If they lose Bergeron and Krejci plus a DeBrusk or Hall...that seems like the nuclear tear down path. It doesn't seem too viable or likely. I think they'll try to run it back. Depending on what his arb numbers look like, I may try to dangle Frederic. 2 years in a row, 2 different coaches he's hit the bench in the playoffs. It's not trimming a lot but it might be doable and he'd probably bring in a modest return. They could probably fill out the rest with Providence guys. Lauko should be cheap to re-sign and looks like he can play in the NHL. McLaughlin can probably play a 4th line wing role. Merkulov and Lysell are knocking on the door but I'd prefer to leave them in Providence unless they blow doors off in camp. Brett Harrison might my a dark horse candidate.
[QUOTE="
I agree that you don't trade either guy, but I don't think Hampus was good, or better than Charlie. Charlie also wasn't good.
[/QUOTE]
My writing wasn’t clear. I thought McAvoy was worse than Lindholm in the series… not overall. I also suspect both are injured. It’s the only real explanation for their poor performance.
I agree that you don't trade either guy, but I don't think Hampus was good, or better than Charlie. Charlie also wasn't good.
[/QUOTE]
My writing wasn’t clear. I thought McAvoy was worse than Lindholm in the series… not overall. I also suspect both are injured. It’s the only real explanation for their poor performance.
This all changes in a big way if Bergeron comes back for another year. He’ll be 38 next season and there has been no drop-off in his play. I assume Krejci will move his family back to the Czech Republic and play there, but I’m not so sure Bergeron is ready to leave the ice and the captaincy for good. But I may be just hoping.
Resigning one of Nosek or Hathaway for $1.5m would leave Lauko/Greer/Merkulov/McLaughlin/Steen/off-season pickup for the other slots.
I wonder if the front office believes Bertuzzi to be such a useful acquisition that they’d be willing to move Grzelcyk and gamble on Lohrei.
There’s no need to blow this roster up. As @IdiotKicker said, next season the Bruins will feel the cap squeeze but the season after test will give the Bruins some cap space.
Sweeney has shown he prefers trades and signings to draft picks in building a roster, so that’s an off-season wild card.
View: https://twitter.com/_tyanderson/status/1653487603675549707?s=46&t=OkYc4B97cAcDPw09PEJj_w
An interesting hypothetical brought up on Bruins Twitter.
If you could sign Tuzzi, but the cost was trading DeBrusk, do you do it?
An interesting hypothetical brought up on Bruins Twitter.
If you could sign Tuzzi, but the cost was trading DeBrusk, do you do it?
No, but it's close. Bertuzzi strikes me as more of a player you put on a line with somebody - he's not going to carry a line. There have been flashes where DeBrusk looks like someone that can carry a line. I'd work to keep them both - I really like Bertuzzi and think he's a great addition - but if I can only have one I want JD.
It really depends on the number you can sign Bertuzzi for, what the return would be for DeBrusk, if you can resign DeBrusk to a team friendly deal this off-season, and probably if you’re willing to move Hall or Marchand. There are only so many $6 million + wingers that you can have on a roster.
Bunch of stuff is this tweet thread
View: https://twitter.com/smclaughlin9/status/1653513453695385601?s=46&t=23orJRFkAhpzRtm4p3-oEw
View: https://twitter.com/smclaughlin9/status/1653513453695385601?s=46&t=23orJRFkAhpzRtm4p3-oEw
Basically as far as the UFA goes, everyone wants to come back to some degree. Seems like there have been some sort of talks with Clifton.
Pastrnak suffered a shoulder injury on the first shift of game 1. Ullmark didn't reveal his injury.
Pastrnak suffered a shoulder injury on the first shift of game 1. Ullmark didn't reveal his injury.
View: https://twitter.com/amaliebenjamin/status/1653513680225550342?s=46&t=OkYc4B97cAcDPw09PEJj_w
Uncle Nick had a great beginning of the season, but unless he comes back at the vet minimum with the understanding he’s on the 9th floor with the exception being an injury to another player - keep him away.
Uncle Nick had a great beginning of the season, but unless he comes back at the vet minimum with the understanding he’s on the 9th floor with the exception being an injury to another player - keep him away.
JFC if they devote cap space beyond the minimum to Foligno
I assume "doesn't not" means he could retire though? Please lord
I assume "doesn't not" means he could retire though? Please lord
I’m sure he like a job with the Bruins. I doubt they’d offer him one unless it was something off the ice.
Honestly he’s a PTO, someone invites him to camp guy at this point.
Honestly he’s a PTO, someone invites him to camp guy at this point.
