Bruins Offseason Thread

burstnbloom

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 12, 2005
2,146
They aren't throwing up the white flag yet.

View: https://twitter.com/ConorRyan_93/status/1404826689893457925?s=20


I think the lynch pin here is Krejci. They have no alternative/replacement if he decides to move on. That decision also ties into their plans for Hall.
Ya I would agree. I think the goal should be to lock up hall for a bit and try to get Tuukka and Krejci on short years/money for one more kick at it. Charlie is getting a $3-$4 mil raise next offseason and Pasta the year after and they have zero cheap depth. 2 years in a long time for development and they will have some chances to make up some ground but I'm worried they have all this cap space in the wrong offseason. $22 mil in space next season would be amazing. Alas.
 

FL4WL3SS

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 31, 2006
12,409
Andy Brickley's potty mouth
I fundamentally disagree that they should be thinking of it as "one last shot". They can build around McAvoy, Marchand, Pasta, etc while still being competitive for Bergy and Tuukka. This mindset is what's going to sink the team in 3-5 years.

Then again, we wouldn't be having this discussion if they could actually draft players.
 

cshea

Member
SoSH Member
Nov 15, 2006
28,885
306, row 14
I kinda disagree with the "if they could draft" thing. I don't think they are as bad as the perception is. Obviously 2015 was a miss. Neely acknowledged as much today.

2016- McAvoy, Frederic, Lindgren, Koppanen, Clarke, Steen

McAvoy's arguably the 2nd best player in that draft (Matthews) and they got him at 16. Wish they too,k DeBrincat or Sam Girard over Frederic, but Freddy is at least an NHL contributor. They traded Lindgren to NYR in the Nash deal and he's turned into a useful, every day defensman in the NHL. Steen has reached the NHL as a 6th round pick so even if he never quite sticks I think it's a win. Koppanen looks like AHL fodder.

2017- Vaakanainen, Studnicka, Swayman, Pare, Berglund, Bukac

This wasn't a great season for Vaakanainen or Studnicka but it's too early to write them off as busts. Swayman looks like the #1 goalie of the future. Berglund is in Providence. Pare and Bukac busted out, but they were 6th and 7th round draft picks.

2018- Andersson, Lauko, Hall, McFaul, Shen

Andersson was their first pick at 57 overall. He was part of the Kase/Backes trade. Lauko has had a solid start to his career and looks to have an NHL future. Hall had a good career in at Yale before missing a ton of time to Covid and then getting hurt for Providence this year. McFaul is still in college. Shen was a 7th round flier who came over, didn't do much and decided to go back to Russia.

It's too soon to pass judgement on the 2019 or 2020 draft classes.

The NHL draft is picking 18 year olds and trying to project how good they'll be when they turn 21/22. It's awfully hard to do. The Bruins have some flaws in their draft process, but I wouldn't call them bad. They tend to go for low ceiling, high floor types. They don't like to gamble on the proverbial boom or bust pick. That makes them look bad when that pick booms, like DeBrincat.

I think the real drag on the process is they've been good so they pick low and also have spent a lot of draft capital and prospects to try to improve the NHL team.
 

burstnbloom

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 12, 2005
2,146
I fundamentally disagree that they should be thinking of it as "one last shot". They can build around McAvoy, Marchand, Pasta, etc while still being competitive for Bergy and Tuukka. This mindset is what's going to sink the team in 3-5 years.

Then again, we wouldn't be having this discussion if they could actually draft players.
It's nuanced right? The only real asset they have that gives them any flexibility is cap space. The problem is there really isn't anything readily available on the marketplace that they can use it on that will extend a window. Ideally you'd leverage that space and your farm system to bring in vets to supplement the core but there isn't much value in the system. Their best bet is to give it one last shot by trying to use that space next year on short term assets to punt that cap space 12 months down the road when there is a chance their existing young players take a step forward, the UFA class is MUCH better and the number of teams able to take advantage of it are very few.

If you're talking abotu them giving everyone 3 year deals, then I'm with you. They will be terrible for a generation if that's what they do and I hope its not.
 

IronManny

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Jul 22, 2005
58
Outer Space
I kinda disagree with the "if they could draft" thing. I don't think they are as bad as the perception is. Obviously 2015 was a miss. Neely acknowledged as much today.

2016- McAvoy, Frederic, Lindgren, Koppanen, Clarke, Steen

McAvoy's arguably the 2nd best player in that draft (Matthews) and they got him at 16. Wish they too,k DeBrincat or Sam Girard over Frederic, but Freddy is at least an NHL contributor. They traded Lindgren to NYR in the Nash deal and he's turned into a useful, every day defensman in the NHL. Steen has reached the NHL as a 6th round pick so even if he never quite sticks I think it's a win. Koppanen looks like AHL fodder.

2017- Vaakanainen, Studnicka, Swayman, Pare, Berglund, Bukac

This wasn't a great season for Vaakanainen or Studnicka but it's too early to write them off as busts. Swayman looks like the #1 goalie of the future. Berglund is in Providence. Pare and Bukac busted out, but they were 6th and 7th round draft picks.

2018- Andersson, Lauko, Hall, McFaul, Shen

Andersson was their first pick at 57 overall. He was part of the Kase/Backes trade. Lauko has had a solid start to his career and looks to have an NHL future. Hall had a good career in at Yale before missing a ton of time to Covid and then getting hurt for Providence this year. McFaul is still in college. Shen was a 7th round flier who came over, didn't do much and decided to go back to Russia.

It's too soon to pass judgement on the 2019 or 2020 draft classes.

The NHL draft is picking 18 year olds and trying to project how good they'll be when they turn 21/22. It's awfully hard to do. The Bruins have some flaws in their draft process, but I wouldn't call them bad. They tend to go for low ceiling, high floor types. They don't like to gamble on the proverbial boom or bust pick. That makes them look bad when that pick booms, like DeBrincat.

I think the real drag on the process is they've been good so they pick low and also have spent a lot of draft capital and prospects to try to improve the NHL team.
Describing 2015 as "Obviously a miss" is a criminal understatement. 2015 wasn't just a miss, it was a franchise-altering fuckup of epic proportions. 3 first rounds picks is close to three drafts worth of value and the degree to which the Bruins screwed up in 2015 can't be understated. This is not hindsight either - this is what people were saying the night of the draft. If they had followed the book and drafted Zboril, Connor, and Barzal then we would have a dynasty on our hands.

Discussing 2015 seems like a broken record, but it really was that big of a miss. The only surprise is that it hasn't hurt the franchise worse. They have a bottom 5 prospect pool right now and other than McAvoy (who is obviously awesome) they don't have a single impact player from the 2016-20 drafts. I hope you're right about Swayman in the long run, but he's played 10 games and goalies are weird.
 

cshea

Member
SoSH Member
Nov 15, 2006
28,885
306, row 14
Describing 2015 as "Obviously a miss" is a criminal understatement. 2015 wasn't just a miss, it was a franchise-altering fuckup of epic proportions. 3 first rounds picks is close to three drafts worth of value and the degree to which the Bruins screwed up in 2015 can't be understated. This is not hindsight either - this is what people were saying the night of the draft. If they had followed the book and drafted Zboril, Connor, and Barzal then we would have a dynasty on our hands.

Discussing 2015 seems like a broken record, but it really was that big of a miss. The only surprise is that it hasn't hurt the franchise worse. They have a bottom 5 prospect pool right now and other than McAvoy (who is obviously awesome) they don't have a single impact player from the 2016-20 drafts. I hope you're right about Swayman in the long run, but he's played 10 games and goalies are weird.
My point was that they haven't really missed on a ton of impact players during that time frame (2016-2020). The root cause, IMO, is they've picked low and traded a lot of picks. It's not because they are particularly bad at selecting players.
 

burstnbloom

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 12, 2005
2,146
Describing 2015 as "Obviously a miss" is a criminal understatement. 2015 wasn't just a miss, it was a franchise-altering fuckup of epic proportions. 3 first rounds picks is close to three drafts worth of value and the degree to which the Bruins screwed up in 2015 can't be understated. This is not hindsight either - this is what people were saying the night of the draft. If they had followed the book and drafted Zboril, Connor, and Barzal then we would have a dynasty on our hands.

Discussing 2015 seems like a broken record, but it really was that big of a miss. The only surprise is that it hasn't hurt the franchise worse. They have a bottom 5 prospect pool right now and other than McAvoy (who is obviously awesome) they don't have a single impact player from the 2016-20 drafts. I hope you're right about Swayman in the long run, but he's played 10 games and goalies are weird.
You're not wrong here but you're overstating the players. Zboril was the scratch pick, Barzal is obviously Barzal but Connor is like... Mike Hoffman. He sells out for scoring and is good on the rush. He's one of the worst defensive players in hockey. In the alternative timeline where they match the scratch picks, I doubt Connor is still here. I hate his game.

Now if they had the foresight to pick Aho and Barzal? Maybe that could have birthed a dynasty. It was bad enough as it happened. we don't need to make it worse.
 

veritas

Member
SoSH Member
Jan 13, 2009
3,091
Somerville, MA
I'm not going to defend the 2015 first round. It was a pretty epic failure. It's also an arbitrary endpoint. They had an amazing draft in 2014, got 3 NHLers in the rest of the 2015 draft, and drafted one of the best defensemen in the league the following year. Vaakanainen is looking like a bust, but as cshea said, they have not had many low picks the past four years. And they've still ended up with some promising players.

If they drafted Barzal instead of Senyshyn, but missed on Pasta or McAvoy, we wouldn't be criticizing their drafting like we are, and they'd be a worse team.
 

FL4WL3SS

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 31, 2006
12,409
Andy Brickley's potty mouth
I'm not going to defend the 2015 first round. It was a pretty epic failure. It's also an arbitrary endpoint. They had an amazing draft in 2014, got 3 NHLers in the rest of the 2015 draft, and drafted one of the best defensemen in the league the following year. Vaakanainen is looking like a bust, but as cshea said, they have not had many low picks the past four years. And they've still ended up with some promising players.

If they drafted Barzal instead of Senyshyn, but missed on Pasta or McAvoy, we wouldn't be criticizing their drafting like we are, and they'd be a worse team.
2015 isn't arbitrary, it's the start of the Sweeney reign. This is about the current front office, not the history of the Bruins.
 

veritas

Member
SoSH Member
Jan 13, 2009
3,091
Somerville, MA
2015 isn't arbitrary, it's the start of the Sweeney reign. This is about the current front office, not the history of the Bruins.
Sweeney was the assistant general manager from 2009-2015 and the front office didn't change significantly when he got promoted. Lets not pretend he had nothing to do with drafting before 2015, or that he was making picks in a vacuum once he was in charge.
 

chief1

lurker
Aug 10, 2012
115
Describing 2015 as "Obviously a miss" is a criminal understatement. 2015 wasn't just a miss, it was a franchise-altering fuckup of epic proportions. 3 first rounds picks is close to three drafts worth of value and the degree to which the Bruins screwed up in 2015 can't be understated. This is not hindsight either - this is what people were saying the night of the draft. If they had followed the book and drafted Zboril, Connor, and Barzal then we would have a dynasty on our hands.

Discussing 2015 seems like a broken record, but it really was that big of a miss. The only surprise is that it hasn't hurt the franchise worse. They have a bottom 5 prospect pool right now and other than McAvoy (who is obviously awesome) they don't have a single impact player from the 2016-20 drafts. I hope you're right about Swayman in the long run, but he's played 10 games and goalies are weird.
1000% agree with this take. Even if he hit on just one, they wouldnt be in this situation.
 

BigMike

Dope
Dope
Sep 26, 2000
22,301
You're not wrong here but you're overstating the players. Zboril was the scratch pick, Barzal is obviously Barzal but Connor is like... Mike Hoffman. He sells out for scoring and is good on the rush. He's one of the worst defensive players in hockey. In the alternative timeline where they match the scratch picks, I doubt Connor is still here. I hate his game.

Now if they had the foresight to pick Aho and Barzal? Maybe that could have birthed a dynasty. It was bad enough as it happened. we don't need to make it worse.
Yeah they were never gonna take Connor for better or worse. They didn't like his game at all. And honestly if Connor/Debrusk were swapped in where they were drafted who knows we might be whining the opposite way. Probably not that, but honestly if Debrusk had developed on a normal curve and Debrusk was coming off a 50 point season this year, there would be a lot less complaining on this choice. So they do need to look internally to try and understand why a guy who scored 27 goals at age 22, is now viewed as trash at age 24

In terms of Barzal. Yes he has absolutely been a home run pick, but at the same time all the experts thought it was a sure thing Dylan Strome was a better player than Barzal. Truth is if they didn't go Senyshen at 15, and wanted to go Center instead. I sadly think they would have gone with Colin White, and it wouldn't even have been a crazy pick, as most had him rated in the 16-22 range.

And ultimately they made the deals they did, with the plan/expectation that they would be able to package 2 (or more) of the picks to go get Noah Hanifin, who is a reasonable, if decidedly unspectacular middle pairing defenseman. And since one move impacts others who knows if they got Hanifin, they might not have gone Carlo in the 2nd, or maybe they don't draft McAvoy the next year
 

burstnbloom

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 12, 2005
2,146
I did a little exercise last night on Twitter when I went back in the draft since 2015 and just picked my binkies that I wanted with the first round picks in the Sweeney era and came up with this.

2015- Zboril
Barzal
Ericksson-Ek

2016- Fabbro (big miss by me skipping McAvoy), Debrincat

2017 - Rob Thomas

2019 - Hoglander

Maybe I'm giving myself too much credit or conveniently misremebering but it appears like the Bruins would be in much better shape if they let me draft for them since 2015 and that's kinda making me re-think my temperate criticism of them as a front office. I think there are 10 guys on this forum who would have chosen the same or a similar group of players.

That makes me really nervous.

Marchand - Bergeron - Pastrnak
Hoglander- Barzal - Debrincat
XX - Eriksson -Ek - Thomas

Ya - that is upsetting.
 

ColdSoxPack

Well-Known Member
Silver Supporter
Jul 14, 2005
1,198
Simi Valley, CA
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Jake DeBrusk and Bruce Cassidy do not see eye to eye. They’re looking to find common ground. <a href="https://t.co/F1yrPpDUNj">https://t.co/F1yrPpDUNj</a></p>&mdash; Fluto Shinzawa (@FlutoShinzawa) <a href="View: https://twitter.com/FlutoShinzawa/status/1405512949079363586?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw
">June 17, 2021</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Fluto in today's Athletic. Paints a grim picture for Jake.
 

PedroSpecialK

Comes at you like a tornado of hair and the NHL sa
SoSH Member
Dec 12, 2004
26,314
Cambridge, MA
Dig it. Probably safe to assume Kuraly won't be back, Frederic is likely break-even at worst with Kuraly's output this year.
 

Haunted

The Man in the Box
SoSH Member
Aug 23, 2006
4,318
I'd like to see a bit of a revamped 4th line too, so this would be great for him to slot in there.
 

SoxinSeattle

Member
SoSH Member
Mar 6, 2003
1,976
Here
Absolutely horrible news. Don’t know how you bounce back from that honestly. Couldn’t even imagine.
They will bounce back but never be the same I would imagine. A friend of mine lost his first child at six months and many years later they have 3 healthy happy children.
 

tmracht

Well-Known Member
Gold Supporter
SoSH Member
Aug 19, 2009
2,289
RIP Viggo. I never lost a child after birth, but we lost a child quite far along in the process. It was horrible for us, I cannot imagine what they are going through.
 

Haunted

The Man in the Box
SoSH Member
Aug 23, 2006
4,318
Ugh. This happened to a very close friend of mine years ago (child was 2-3 months old). The tiny casket at the funeral was gutting, just absolutely gutting.

I hope the family pulls through, as my friend's son's death effectively destroyed their marriage.
 

Leather

given himself a skunk spot
SoSH Member
Jul 18, 2005
27,142
Every parent’s worst nightmare. Just awful. There aren’t many things that make me tear up but just reading about this does.
 

Over Guapo Grande

panty merchant
SoSH Member
Nov 29, 2005
2,361
Worcester
I know that Pasta wants privacy during this time, and I certainly plan to honor that. If he does post something about donations to a fund (whether SIDS or other), I'm onboard, and I also have time to be able to chase people.
 

burstnbloom

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 12, 2005
2,146
Terrifying. OEL is not a good player. He spent most of this season playing with Lyubushkin who is absolutely terrible, but the numbers are so so bad. Below replacement level. For $8mil per for the next 6 years. It's a Jeff Skinner level bad contract. I'd hesitate to take him on if they gave Garland to the Bruins for free and took John Moore ad Chris Wagner's contracts on as well. Please don't do this, Sweeney.
 

Ferm Sheller

Member
SoSH Member
Mar 5, 2007
11,742
So Providence is going to remain the Bruins' "feeder" minor league team? What does that make the Mariners? Will a guy who ultimately plays for the Bruins ever go through Portland? Seems like the team will be just a bunch of scrubs. I mean, more than half of the Providence Bruins never sniff the NHL.
 

burstnbloom

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 12, 2005
2,146
Ya its the ECHL. It's rare that people get from the coast to the NHL except goaltenders. Vladar and Keyser have spent time in the coast recently for the Bruins.
 

NYCSox

chris hansen of goats
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
May 19, 2004
9,043
Some fancy town in CT
Terrifying. OEL is not a good player. He spent most of this season playing with Lyubushkin who is absolutely terrible, but the numbers are so so bad. Below replacement level. For $8mil per for the next 6 years. It's a Jeff Skinner level bad contract. I'd hesitate to take him on if they gave Garland to the Bruins for free and took John Moore ad Chris Wagner's contracts on as well. Please don't do this, Sweeney.
Yeah I don't think there are enough bad contracts to dump back there. Maybe if the Coyotes retain half?
 

cshea

Member
SoSH Member
Nov 15, 2006
28,885
306, row 14
Yeah I don't think there are enough bad contracts to dump back there. Maybe if the Coyotes retain half?
I don't think I'd even do that. They're also desperate, so I worry.

I like Garland but he's not going to be cheap. He's an RFA with arb rights and has 78 points in his last 117 games. He's due a raise, the Bruins wouldn't be getting any real bargain with him. It's not an apples to apples comparison, but DeBrusk had 77 points in 133 games heading into his contract year and got $3.675 million AAV without having arbitration rights. Garland will probably come in at north of DeBrusk.

If they got Garland and half of OEL it's still basically taking on $8 million or so at a minimum. That's a lot of coin. I'm with burst on OEL, I was more intrigued last year but he was terrible again this year. Problem is, there aren't many other options for LHD. I still like Vince Dunn but reading around it sounds he could be Kraken bound.
 

burstnbloom

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 12, 2005
2,146
I don't think I'd even do that. They're also desperate, so I worry.

I like Garland but he's not going to be cheap. He's an RFA with arb rights and has 78 points in his last 117 games. He's due a raise, the Bruins wouldn't be getting any real bargain with him. It's not an apples to apples comparison, but DeBrusk had 77 points in 133 games heading into his contract year and got $3.675 million AAV without having arbitration rights. Garland will probably come in at north of DeBrusk.

If they got Garland and half of OEL it's still basically taking on $8 million or so at a minimum. That's a lot of coin. I'm with burst on OEL, I was more intrigued last year but he was terrible again this year. Problem is, there aren't many other options for LHD. I still like Vince Dunn but reading around it sounds he could be Kraken bound.
If they can resign Hall and get Garland for a reasonable price - that top 6 is exceptionally good (this assumes Krejci or replacement C for the near term) but its really hard to swallow the idea of OEL getting paid $8m in 2026 even under the scenario I described. That;s exactly the kind of move I am worried about. I get retooling for another go and just realizing there will be some rebuilding coming but don't commit yourself long term to bad bets because it just prolongs the misery. OEL is one of the worst bets possible. I'm sure Charlie could make him look good but if you have a $16+mil pair (Charlie is getting $8m per easy) then it should be exceptional and I think it would just be Charlie dragging OEL along. I am a big no on this but I'm worried that Sweeney isn't.
 

cshea

Member
SoSH Member
Nov 15, 2006
28,885
306, row 14
If they can resign Hall and get Garland for a reasonable price - that top 6 is exceptionally good (this assumes Krejci or replacement C for the near term) but its really hard to swallow the idea of OEL getting paid $8m in 2026 even under the scenario I described. That;s exactly the kind of move I am worried about. I get retooling for another go and just realizing there will be some rebuilding coming but don't commit yourself long term to bad bets because it just prolongs the misery. OEL is one of the worst bets possible. I'm sure Charlie could make him look good but if you have a $16+mil pair (Charlie is getting $8m per easy) then it should be exceptional and I think it would just be Charlie dragging OEL along. I am a big no on this but I'm worried that Sweeney isn't.
The other problem is the lack of options on the left side. There's nothing. UFA wise it's the aging Edler, Hjalmarsson or Goligoski. Yuck. Haven't seen much available on the trade market beyond OEL. Maybe Ekholm shakes loose in Nashville again before the expansion draft, but then there's the protection gymnastics to do for that trade to make sense on both sides.

There's a little more with RHD, don't know if it's worth exploring trying to add a higher end righty, but that's also easier said than done. Hamilton is a Norris guy and UFA but I'm guessing that bridge is burned. Jones is available via trade but the Bruins likely can't match up to some of the rumored suitors (Chicago, Philly). Adam Larsson is a young UFA but meh.

I'm scared it's OEL or bring back the same d corp.
 

burstnbloom

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 12, 2005
2,146
The other problem is the lack of options on the left side. There's nothing. UFA wise it's the aging Edler, Hjalmarsson or Goligoski. Yuck. Haven't seen much available on the trade market beyond OEL. Maybe Ekholm shakes loose in Nashville again before the expansion draft, but then there's the protection gymnastics to do for that trade to make sense on both sides.

There's a little more with RHD, don't know if it's worth exploring trying to add a higher end righty, but that's also easier said than done. Hamilton is a Norris guy and UFA but I'm guessing that bridge is burned. Jones is available via trade but the Bruins likely can't match up to some of the rumored suitors (Chicago, Philly). Adam Larsson is a young UFA but meh.

I'm scared it's OEL or bring back the same d corp.
pure speculation by me, but I bet Nate Schmidt could be had. Canucks have less than $16m in cap space, Pettersson and Quinn Hughes to sign and Boeser next year. 4 more years at $5.9 per . You'd be paying for ages 30-34.
 

veritas

Member
SoSH Member
Jan 13, 2009
3,091
Somerville, MA
The other problem is the lack of options on the left side. There's nothing. UFA wise it's the aging Edler, Hjalmarsson or Goligoski. Yuck. Haven't seen much available on the trade market beyond OEL. Maybe Ekholm shakes loose in Nashville again before the expansion draft, but then there's the protection gymnastics to do for that trade to make sense on both sides.

There's a little more with RHD, don't know if it's worth exploring trying to add a higher end righty, but that's also easier said than done. Hamilton is a Norris guy and UFA but I'm guessing that bridge is burned. Jones is available via trade but the Bruins likely can't match up to some of the rumored suitors (Chicago, Philly). Adam Larsson is a young UFA but meh.

I'm scared it's OEL or bring back the same d corp.
I've been saying for a while that Hjalmarsson would be a perfect partner for McAvoy. His defensive metrics were still really good last season when he was on the ice. And he is 34. But I'd take a gamble on him for sure if the price was right.

Also bring back Dougie.