Browns fired Lombardi/Banner, promote Farmer to GM, went after Jim Harbaugh?

[RedOctober3829]

Didn't need it's own thread so I'll stick it here.  What is it that the Cleveland Browns are doing?
 

Vic Carucci ‏@viccarucci [URL="https://twitter.com/viccarucci/status/433252495784030208

https://twitter.com/viccarucci/status/433252495784030208"]59s[/url]
Ray Farmer promoted to GM. Joe Banner to step down as CEO. GM Michael Lombardi to leave the team. Press conf. at 11am
 

 

[Super Nomario]

Didn't need it's own thread so I'll stick it here.  What is it that the Cleveland Browns are doing?
 

We should have a catch-all "Browns are insane" thread.
 
I think they viewed Farmer as their next GM when they hired him as an assistant, but it seems like there was probably a three-way power struggle going on behind the scenes and he ended up winning sooner than everybody thought.

 

[jsinger121]

Easily the worst run franchise in the entire NFL. Even Washington and Oakland aren't this bad. 

 

[SeoulSoxFan]

@Browns  BREAKING: Official release from Cleveland Browns - Ray Farmer named team General Manager.
 
LOL
 
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap2000000325021/article/browns-announce-banner-lombardi-to-step-down?campaign=Twitter_atl
 

The offseason shakeup continues in Cleveland.
 
The Browns on Tuesday announced that CEO Joe Banner and general manager Michael Lombardi are out, with Ray Farmer, Lombardi's assistant, set to be named GM.
 
We'll have more on this development soon on NFL.com.

 

[mascho]

Does this mean Mallett for Gordon is off?
 
God it must suck to be a Browns fan.  

 

[SeoulSoxFan]

https://twitter.com/IanKenyonNFL/status/433255083409559552
 
@IanKenyonNFL So the Browns let go of their head coach after 1 season, their GM after 1 season, and their CEO after 18 months. Good work Haslem...

 

[Jnai]

wat

 

[SeoulSoxFan]

[Merged several posts from the Offseason thread -- thanks RedOctober3829!]

 

[PedroKsBambino]

They better hope Farmer is a strong GM because I don't think any credible candidates are going to be willing to work for this organization anytime soon.

 

[SeoulSoxFan]

Straight from the horse's mouth, the owner Jimmy Haslam: http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/10435830/cleveland-browns-overhaul-front-office-name-ray-farmer-new-gm

First of all, we wanted to capitalize on the knowledge, experience and character we're fortunate to have in Ray Farmer. Ray has a tremendous football IQ, he's compelling, and he understands the types of players we need to acquire and develop in order to win in Cleveland. He embraces his partnership with Mike Pettine, which is critical in helping build the right team. Ray will provide excellent leadership in our front office.
 
We appreciate Joe's contributions to the Cleveland Browns, especially in helping us as new owners. He was committed to creating a successful organization and bringing in talented individuals. We thank him for his work and dedication. We wish him and his family the best.
 
Alec will continue in his role as President of this team. I think he's one of the most intelligent and innovative young executives in the NFL.
 
We're also grateful for Mike Lombardi's efforts and commitment since rejoining our organization. He is an experienced and creative NFL executive with a unique ability to see the big picture. He has tremendous instincts and I know he'll be a valuable addition to any NFL organization. We simply wanted to give Ray this opportunity that he's earned. We wanted to move forward under his leadership and capabilities.
 
The purpose of these moves is to unify our team with one, unequivocal goal: Provide our fans with the winning organization they have long deserved.

The winner? Bill Simmons.

 

[Dogman]

They better hope Farmer is a strong GM because I don't think any credible candidates are going to be willing to work for this organization anytime soon.

 
This was my thought too.  Aside from staring at unemployment, why would anyone want to work for an organization this dysfunctional?  It's possible to improve on last season and still be out of a job after 12 months. Obviously job security in the NFL is largely nonexistent but damn.
 
Gordon is gonna regret that ink.

 

[luckiestman]

I dont know if I agree with the tenor of this thread. The Browns may seem a joke now, but it seems like the owner is cutting bait fast if he doesnt like something. That could end up being bad but it is still an improvement over the past owner.

 

[SeoulSoxFan]

I dont know if I agree with the tenor of this thread. The Browns may seem a joke now, but it seems like the owner is cutting bait fast if he doesnt like something. That could end up being bad but it is still an improvement over the past owner.

Understatement of the thread so far.

 

[SaveBooFerriss]

This seems to me to be a situation where the owner got spooked by the interest by other teams in Farmer.  He probably thought if other teams want him, he must be valuable.  So, he ditched Lombardi and Banner to keep Farmer.  

 

[luckiestman]

I have a good friend that is a lifelong Browns fan and he was telling me 2 weeks ago that Banner is despised locally. I guess they have reason to rejoice

 

[Smiling Joe Hesketh]

This seems to me to be a situation where the owner got spooked by the interest by other teams in Farmer.  He probably thought if other teams want him, he must be valuable.  So, he ditched Lombardi and Banner to keep Farmer.  

 
We saw how well that worked when the Sox thought other teams had an interest in Butch Hobson for manager.
 
I don't know what to think here. On the one hand, they've dumped their coach, GM, and CEO after 1 year and 18 months, respectively. Seems insane. On the other, IF Haslam thinks that Farmer can get everyone in the organization on the same page with the same vision, I guess it's not a bad move. Perhaps there was infighting in the ranks.

 

[Dogman]

 
We saw how well that worked when the Sox thought other teams had an interest in Butch Hobson for manager.
 
I don't know what to think here. On the one hand, they've dumped their coach, GM, and CEO after 1 year and 18 months, respectively. Seems insane. On the other, IF Haslam thinks that Farmer can get everyone in the organization on the same page with the same vision, I guess it's not a bad move. Perhaps there was infighting in the ranks.

 
Perhaps the owner doesn't have a clue how to run an NFL franchise and is making these moves simply to appease, as mentioned, fans hatred of someone they know nothing of.

 

[Shelterdog]

I dont know if I agree with the tenor of this thread. The Browns may seem a joke now, but it seems like the owner is cutting bait fast if he doesnt like something. That could end up being bad but it is still an improvement over the past owner.

 
It only works if you're a really, really good talent evaluator: you're essentially betting that you can evaluate almost perfectly in 12-18 months.

 

[PedroKsBambino]

I have a good friend that is a lifelong Browns fan and he was telling me 2 weeks ago that Banner is despised locally. I guess they have reason to rejoice

 
These are the same fans who hated Bill Belichick, mind you.

 

[bbc23]

Straight from the horse's mouth, the owner Jimmy Haslam: http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/10435830/cleveland-browns-overhaul-front-office-name-ray-farmer-new-gm


The winner? Bill Simmons.

And you thought Lombardi was petty whenever he talked about the Raiders? I can't wait to hear the bitterness about Haslem.  

 

[KiltedFool]

Weird.  Recall Haslem became the Browns owner immediately after being a minority owner in the Steelers, and went on at length about wanting to implement the Steeler way into the Browns org.
 
Umm, not so much.  Still more or less the anti-Steeler, unless he's going to sit down and exhibit the patience of Job for this team now that he has "his" front office.

 

[mikeford]

Is Haslam like a Jerry Jones level micromanaging psycho?
 
Man this organization is effed.

 

[CaptainLaddie]

From a diehard Browns fan friend of mine, in response to: "what the hell are the Browns doing?"
 

 

First off, one must ask the question: how can things get any worse?  A: They can't. 
 
More to the point, Browns fans are greeting this as great news.  Nobody liked Lombardi, and Ray Farmer is supposedly great GM material. Dolphins offered him their GM spot a few weeks ago and he turned them down.  Probably because our crooked owner told him to give him a couple weeks to give Lombardi the boot.  Not sure what the deal is with Banner getting shitcanned, too, but I welcome the Farmer/Pettine era.  I think.
 
And as an added bonus, there's a good chance Lombardi returns to the BS Report as we gear up for the draft.  He should have some good insight into the Browns thinking for their pair of first round picks.
 

 

[Seabass]

Joe Posnanski ‏@JPosnanski  3m
Browns announce they will be a communist regime. "Who is the GM?" Jimmy Haslem asks. "The people."

 

[Morning Woodhead]

Not sure who gets credit between Lombardi and Farmer for the Richardson trade, but that was an incredible heist.  If it was Lombardi, then it sucks for him to set his team up for draft success and then get the boot. 
 
I still get the sense the Browns had a coach in mind when they fired Chud (maybe McDaniels), and when they couldn't get him, it just got worse and worse.  Browns were one of the first teams to fire their coach, and got stuck with somebody who is clear was not their first choice.  Maybe this is the fallout from the coaching search fiasco. 

 

[ShaneTrot]

Haslam hired this front office last year. Then has a coach for one year. How do guys get this rich? He inherited the money.
 
If Lombardi made the Richardson trade they should be erecting a statue to him. Plus someone brought in Hoyer and Campbell and who were actually competent.

 

[Bergs]

At this point, the Browns are like a performance art tribute to themselves. Just amazing.

 

[jk333]

Haslam hired this front office last year. Then has a coach for one year. How do guys get this rich? He inherited the money.
 
If Lombardi made the Richardson trade they should be erecting a statue to him. Plus someone brought in Hoyer and Campbell and who were actually competent.

 
I agree with this. Cleveland has begun to put together a competent team with their defense, Josh Gordon and Jordan Cameron as well as pretty solid QB play from Hoyer. With two 1st round picks including a potential QB, they could be in pretty good shape. The Richardson trade was huge. The next 2 years will show if these players will progress and if Lombardi or Farmer deserves the credit for their current talent.

 

[jacklamabe65]

I wonder if Lombardi will end up back working for Bill, especially given all of the maneuvering around Foxboro these days.

 

[ShaneTrot]

I stole this comment from Deadspin:

Poignant TheaterUBarry Petchesky

201
L
U




It's a refreshing bit of honesty for the Browns, who are finally admitting that there never has and never will be a place for a Lombardi in their organization. Today 10:33am

 

[Buster Olney the Lonely]

That press conference was great. Haslam got so defensive. My favorite line: "People view the Browns as a great franchise." Ooohkay.

 

[DanoooME]

More to the point, Browns fans are greeting this as great news.  Nobody liked Lombardi, and Ray Farmer is supposedly great GM material. Dolphins offered him their GM spot a few weeks ago and he turned them down.  Probably because our crooked owner told him to give him a couple weeks to give Lombardi the boot.  Not sure what the deal is with Banner getting shitcanned, too, but I welcome the Farmer/Pettine era.  I think.
 

 
My guess is Haslem told Banner that he was canning Lombardi and Banner said you'll have to get rid of me also to do that, so Haslem obliged Banner.

 

[PedroKsBambino]

And somewhere near Foxboro Josh McDaniels breathes a huge sigh of relief, appreciating the train wreck he has (narrowly?) avoided...

 

[OCST]

 
Joe Posnanski ‏@JPosnanski  3m
Browns announce they will be a communist regime. "Who is the GM?" Jimmy Haslem asks. "The people."
 

 
I bet that if you could figure out a way to crowd-source the GM job to the fanbase (internet voting or some such), the results would probably be at least mediocre, and better than some meatspace GMs.
 

 
That press conference was great. Haslam got so defensive. My favorite line: "People view the Browns as a great franchise." Ooohkay.

 
If someone ever came into Cleveland, turned that team around, and won a Super Bowl, they would be a God.

 

[bowiac]

I know almost nothing of Lombardi except for his regular appearances on the BS Report. Based on those, he's a buffoon, and it's amazing he got the job in the first place. Obviously the NFL GM job is pretty opaque, so it's hard to tell whether he was a good/bad executive, but he sure didn't sound like he knew what he was talking about. 

 

[ifmanis5]

That Richardson trade was probably the NFL steal of the decade. Not sure why he was blown out but Francesa will enjoy it since he hated Lombardi. "Those clowns in Cleveland!"

 

[wutang112878]

In general this is an utter mess, its great to watch, one less team to worry about competing with.
 
 

I know almost nothing of Lombardi except for his regular appearances on the BS Report. Based on those, he's a buffoon, and it's amazing he got the job in the first place. Obviously the NFL GM job is pretty opaque, so it's hard to tell whether he was a good/bad executive, but he sure didn't sound like he knew what he was talking about. 

 
Now I dont know if he can make good decisions but when I was reading some of his columns on NFL.com it seemed to me as though he had a good framework for looking at the decisions both in the short and long-term.  I gave him a semi-pass for his work in Oakland because he was working for Al Davis, but this is the 2nd dysfunctional organization he has been a significant part of.  So it brings up a few questions: is he just unlucky (maybe but he might be playing a role making these places dysfunctional), might he succeed in a good organization (maybe if everything else was perfect), and does he have the ability to fix a broken organization (absolutely No).  Based on that, his job opportunities in the NFL look pretty limited at this point

 

[Shelterdog]

I know almost nothing of Lombardi except for his regular appearances on the BS Report. Based on those, he's a buffoon, and it's amazing he got the job in the first place. Obviously the NFL GM job is pretty opaque, so it's hard to tell whether he was a good/bad executive, but he sure didn't sound like he knew what he was talking about. 

 
Do you have any examples of why you think this? I personally couldn't tell how good or bad he was because I thought he was putting a lot of effort into being an entertaining guest rather than sharing his honest analysis of football players.

 

[Kliq]

I think we are getting lost in the fact that Lombardi only had one year to work with in Cleveland. It's really, really hard to make a huge impact in one year as a GM, especially when you are inheriting a crappy team to begin with. I don't know how you can judge Lombardi's record in Cleveland when he was only there for a year. Lombardi very well may have ended up being a bad GM for Cleveland, but the real crime here is that he never even got the chance to prove anything. For all we know, Farmer could be gone by this time next year as well.

 

[mauf]

Firing a GM after only two years on the job would appear rash and would make top-notch candidates think twice about taking the job. So, if Haslam was convinced he made a mistake in hiring Lombardi a year ago, there was little to be gained by living with that mistake for another year -- the refrain would still be that Haslam was an impulsive jerk who doesn't know football. So if you think Lombardi is the wrong guy for the job, why would you leave him in charge of the fourth pick in the draft and a boatload of cap room? Rather than seeing this firing (and the Chudzinski firing) as a sign of the Browns continuing dysfunction, I see it as a sign that Haslam is willing to admit his mistakes and learn from them.
 
Despite the best efforts of the late Al Lerner, the current incarnation of the Cleveland Browns has been a train wreck from the outset. I'm not surprised that Browns' fans are delighted at the house cleaning. If it were possible to boot Haslam along with Lombardi and Chudzinski, I imagine their joy would be complete.

 

[bowiac]

Do you have any examples of why you think this? I personally couldn't tell how good or bad he was because I thought he was putting a lot of effort into being an entertaining guest rather than sharing his honest analysis of football players.

Which is totally fair - like I said, being a guest on a podcast doesn't necessarily mean much with respect to ability to run a football team. The one thing that stands out was his whole "blue chip"/"red chip" players idea, which I think is both a misguided way to evaluate football teams and talent, and led him to say a lot of pretty dumb "talking head" style stuff like listing Eli Manning as top 5 QB, and a blue chipper. 
 
Stuff like that always made me think he was a standard talking head, and no different from having Troy Aikman or whoever giving analysis. (Which isn't to say Aikman couldn't give good analysis, that's just not what he's doing on TV at least).

 

[Super Nomario]

Which is totally fair - like I said, being a guest on a podcast doesn't necessarily mean much with respect to ability to run a football team. The one thing that stands out was his whole "blue chip"/"red chip" players idea, which I think is both a misguided way to evaluate football teams and talent, and led him to say a lot of pretty dumb "talking head" style stuff like listing Eli Manning as top 5 QB, and a blue chipper. 
 
Stuff like that always made me think he was a standard talking head, and no different from having Troy Aikman or whoever giving analysis. (Which isn't to say Aikman couldn't give good analysis, that's just not what he's doing on TV at least).

I generally agree with you about Lombardi, though I am also struggling to think of examples. That Manning one isn't fair though, because he probably was a top-5 QB in 2011 if you count the playoffs (8th in DVOA, 9th in DYAR not counting playoffs; 4th in WPA and EPA, 6th per PFF in the regular season, 3rd counting playoffs). It was his career year.

 

[bowiac]

I generally agree with you about Lombardi, though I am also struggling to think of examples. That Manning one isn't fair though, because he probably was a top-5 QB in 2011 if you count the playoffs (8th in DVOA, 9th in DYAR not counting playoffs; 4th in WPA and EPA, 6th per PFF in the regular season, 3rd counting playoffs). It was his career year.

Saying he had a semi-top 5 year the year before isn't really the same as saying he's a top 5 QB going forward. I dunno - that was just the first one off the top of my head that stuck out, but there are others. I generally think the concept of blue chippers isn't very helpful when you define that there is a constant supply of blue chip guys at every position, and then assign arbitrary weights to each. 

 

[Jnai]

Not that I disagree - because I often found Lombardi's "analysis" of players on Simmons' podcast to be kind of vapid and useless - but I do think people way underestimate how difficult it is to talk down to an audience and still sound intelligent, and actual football guys have to do that all the time.
 
Baseball guys do too - sit at a game with a serious scout for an inning and just talk about what they're looking at. They give you like 1/50th of what they're getting about a player, and while they're talking to you, they're also timing every important event, getting every pitch speed, and counting swings and misses or whatever else. But if you sit them down and interview them and ask them, "Hey, what did you like about Verlander", they say, "Uh, he throws hard and I like that."
 
I guess what I'm saying is, I don't know if it's fair to judge guys like that based on media appearances. Even if Lombardi's did kind of suck.

 

[shoebooty]

So hire your new head coach then hire your GM.
Why not? It worked so well the last time you used that approach with the coach and GM you just fired.
Cleveland being Cleveland

 

[soxhop411]

Tom James ‏@TribStarTJames  1m
Cleveland Plain-Dealer writer Mary Kay Cabot, who is a veteran on the Browns beat, thinks the team is saving the CEO job for Peyton Manning.
 
 
https://twitter.com/TribStarTJames/status/433382252089602048
 
Good luck with that CLE

 

[mauf]

So hire your new head coach then hire your GM.
Why not? It worked so well the last time you used that approach with the coach and GM you just fired.
Cleveland being Cleveland

 
Obviously, this is insanely stupid if they hired a HC two weeks ago (and not a marquee guy -- Pettine would almost certainly still be available), only to fire their GM and stick the new GM with a coach he didn't choose.
 
Given the circumstances, however, it seems fair to assume that Farmer got the HC he wanted.

 

[Chief Wahoo]

 
I stole this comment from Deadspin:

Poignant TheaterUBarry Petchesky

201
L
U




It's a refreshing bit of honesty for the Browns, who are finally admitting that there never has and never will be a place for a Lombardi in their organization. Today 10:33am

 

 
I was born & raised in Cleveland & the Browns were the team I lived & died with.  Well before Art Modell staged his move.
 
With or despite that caveat, that's a wicked funny post.

 

[Tony C]

 
I agree with this. Cleveland has begun to put together a competent team with their defense, Josh Gordon and Jordan Cameron as well as pretty solid QB play from Hoyer. With two 1st round picks including a potential QB, they could be in pretty good shape. The Richardson trade was huge. The next 2 years will show if these players will progress and if Lombardi or Farmer deserves the credit for their current talent.

 
This was my thought, too -- the talent is really pretty good (it ought to be, of course, given where they draft) and the Richardson trade was an outright fleece showing both an ability to cut bait on the previous regime's mistakes and get a great price to boot. And Campbell and Hoyer were both good reclamation types...frankly I thought the Browns were going in the right direction if they could get past their mixed signals dysfunction. But I sure as hell hope Pettine was a Farmer guy. If he is, then Farmer's inheriting a pretty good situation: decent talent, lots of picks, his own coach in place, and a situation where the owner really has to give him some rope....right?
 
 

 
I stole this comment from Deadspin:

Poignant TheaterUBarry Petchesky

201
L
U




It's a refreshing bit of honesty for the Browns, who are finally admitting that there never has and never will be a place for a Lombardi in their organization. Today 10:33am

 

 
heh!

 

[soxhop411]

Tom James ‏@TribStarTJames  10m
Manning and Browns owner Jimmy Haslam are close friends due to Haslam's ties to the UT. Haslam sees Manning being John Elway.