Braves trade Jason Heyward to Cardinals for Shelby Miller
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That seems like a great deal for both sides. Impressive how quickly St. Louis filled the Taveras hole with something so valuable.
I'm skeptical about Shelby Miller. He took a step back last year and is a 2 pitch guy.
Cardinals selling high on him, bravo.
Cardinals selling high on him, bravo.
BornToRun said:
Contract expires after 2015, but he's still got one year of arb eligibility in 2016.
Yeah, I'm leaning toward this being a win for St. Louis. I'm assuming they mean to extend him and if the lack of an extension on Heyward in Atlanta was resistance from the front office, I would be surprised if we don't hear about the Cardinals locking him up soon. There was no way for Cherington to make a reasonable offer for Heyward before clearing the outfield logjam, so it's hard to fault him for not getting something done, but it stings that Heyward was so affordable and ended up somewhere else.
Did anybody anywhere have this? Looks like it was first announced by the official Twitter pages.
The one interesting thing to me in this is that they didn't get a hitter back from StL. Obviously, the Braves aren't done; but their biggest issue last year was consistent offense and Heyward was there second biggest trade chip (after J Upton, if they choose to deal him). They need to get a hitter somehow.
RedOctober3829 said:
I actually wouldn't be happy with that return for Cespedes. Miller worries me. A lot.
RedOctober3829 said:
Almost added that to my post, but I thought ... nah. Sox probably checked into Miller when they sent Lackey there in July, so there could be interest on Boston's part. Not sure Cespedes is what Atl needs, though
Snodgrass'Muff said:
I think it's more like Cherington didn't want to meet the Braves' price. If they really wanted Heyward, they would have traded for him and solved the OF problem later. Just like when then traded for Cespedes ans Craig,
Just a bit outside said:
Yeah looks like I was wrong---B-Ref claims that he is arb eligible in 2016 but it must be a mistake. They also have him a FA after 2015 on the same page so just a slip up I guess. Makes the trade seem a bit more sensible from the Braves end.
DrewDawg said:
Sure it is. The perception of Miller doesn't meet the reality. He got packaged for a top 20 OF with upside.
As is, he's a back of the rotation starter who'll end up in the bullpen without a usable 3rd pitch and command of his fastball.
[SIZE=14.4444446563721px]This really comes down to years of control for the Braves -- four of Miller and six of Jenkins for one of Heyward is a sound deal if Atlanta knew they weren't going to sign him this year. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=14.4444446563721px]Miller hasn't lit the world on fire yet, but he just turned 24 a month ago. [/SIZE][SIZE=14.4444446563721px]Jenkins is a nice secondary piece to go with Miller. That, and Heyward is making $7.8 million next year, so when you take into account that Miller isn't arb-eligible yet, this'll free up about $7 million for the Braves to play with. [/SIZE]
I think this is just a good deal. The Braves are betting on Miller being a solid starter, and the Cards are betting that Heyward can become more consistent offensively and that they can get him extended. Risk for both clubs, but the risks make sense for them.
[SIZE=14.4444446563721px]Miller hasn't lit the world on fire yet, but he just turned 24 a month ago. [/SIZE][SIZE=14.4444446563721px]Jenkins is a nice secondary piece to go with Miller. That, and Heyward is making $7.8 million next year, so when you take into account that Miller isn't arb-eligible yet, this'll free up about $7 million for the Braves to play with. [/SIZE]
I think this is just a good deal. The Braves are betting on Miller being a solid starter, and the Cards are betting that Heyward can become more consistent offensively and that they can get him extended. Risk for both clubs, but the risks make sense for them.
And Walden could end up being a key piece of the Cards' pen if he can harness his control a little bit more.
jimc said:
Yup. He made $3.65M in 2013, his first arb year. The 2-year deal he's on now bought out his 2nd and 3rd arb years (2014-15).
Rob Bradford @bradfo 25s25 seconds ago
Source: Red Sox never engaged in Jason Heyward trade talks before OF was dealt to Cards http://fullcount.weei.com/sports/boston/baseball/red-sox/2014/11/17/source-red-sox-never-engaged-on-jason-heyward/ …
Source: Red Sox never engaged in Jason Heyward trade talks before OF was dealt to Cards http://fullcount.weei.com/sports/boston/baseball/red-sox/2014/11/17/source-red-sox-never-engaged-on-jason-heyward/ …
The real value of this trade is how the future years play out, with Heyward a free agent and Shelby Miller cost controlled.
But I think at 25 Heyward is underrated after having previously been overrated, and amazing defense, useful power that could still emerge as he hits his prime seasons, upward trending on base skills, and good speed.
If he is a rental and doesn't stick around, then giving up a good young cost controlled pitcher might not seem great, but I am going to guess an extension happens and that four years out the Cardinals are the ones who made out on this trade.
I'm sure the Braves will work some of their magic, but I just don't like Shelby Miller right now and am not bullish on what he will deliver over the next four years.
But I think at 25 Heyward is underrated after having previously been overrated, and amazing defense, useful power that could still emerge as he hits his prime seasons, upward trending on base skills, and good speed.
If he is a rental and doesn't stick around, then giving up a good young cost controlled pitcher might not seem great, but I am going to guess an extension happens and that four years out the Cardinals are the ones who made out on this trade.
I'm sure the Braves will work some of their magic, but I just don't like Shelby Miller right now and am not bullish on what he will deliver over the next four years.
nvalvo said:
Heyward was traded for less than I expected, but it's hard to say how the Braves value Miller, and if they wanted a cheap, good, major league ready SP it's possible we couldn't beat the offer.
I also remember the scouting reports on Jenkins being very good. His results from last year are less impressive, but he's a good guy to have and I'm sure someone the Braves valued highly.
I see this as a win for Boston. If Heyward brings back a cost controlled young starter, then Cespedes should as well. Not that they are similar players, but I think it shows that offense is down around the league, and someone with power (even inconsistent power like Heyward) is going to be in-demand. Cespedes has more power, Heyward has more patience, Heyward is better defensively, but they both present some offensive upside and both have 1 year left on their contract.
Another advantage for Boston is that they could easily package Cespedes with a young starter. That could potentially bring back a better pitcher than Miller because the other team would get the young, MLB ready pitcher to replace whoever they are giving up. Not saying trading Cespedes is a given, and not saying this is the only way for the Sox to improve pitching, but it is a possibility given the logjam in the OF. I am only comfortable trading Cespedes if they make a deal (FA or trade) for a power hitting 3B.
Sox OF vs. righties: Nava, Castillo, Betts
Sox OF vs. lefties: Betts, Castillo, Victorino
wildcard: Craig
Another advantage for Boston is that they could easily package Cespedes with a young starter. That could potentially bring back a better pitcher than Miller because the other team would get the young, MLB ready pitcher to replace whoever they are giving up. Not saying trading Cespedes is a given, and not saying this is the only way for the Sox to improve pitching, but it is a possibility given the logjam in the OF. I am only comfortable trading Cespedes if they make a deal (FA or trade) for a power hitting 3B.
Sox OF vs. righties: Nava, Castillo, Betts
Sox OF vs. lefties: Betts, Castillo, Victorino
wildcard: Craig
gammoseditor said:
Jenkins was highly touted for a couple years, but then hurt his shoulder and had to have surgery. This timely article on Jenkins' time in the AFL this year sheds some light on how his recovery has gone.
You mean that on a team with an insane lack of SPs and an equally insane number of OFs you want to trade a SP for an OF?nvalvo said:
It's getting apparent that the Braves and their new GM is punting this season and building for the future. I doubt they would want Cespedes now. But I'd sure like to get Justin Upton and extend him somehow.
Stats: http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=5222&position=OF
Stats: http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=5222&position=OF
Hee Sox Choi said:
He's going to be 27 next season. He's a piece you build around, not something you sell off when you hit the reset button. The Braves aren't looking at a terribly long rebuild, if they are rebuilding at all. Justin Upton isn't going anywhere.
Snodgrass'Muff said:
There are several stories/rumors out there about Upton being on the block and talks with at least Seattle have already started. What do you know that everyone else doesn't? I'm not saying he'll be traded or not- I have no clue. But I don't see how you could make a statement like this so definitively.
glennhoffmania said:
Because I hadn't seen all the rumors that had popped up today. I'll just go sit in the corner.
Rumors are like neuronal responses to visual stimuli; every rumor will probably be popularized at some point during the offseason (just like you can find any neuron in any part of the brain that will respond to a specific visual stimulus).glennhoffmania said:
The Braves basically had to trade either one of Upton or Heyward because they wouldn't be able to afford both after 2015, and probably aren't contenders until 2016. Now that Heyward is traded, they can hold on to upton.
The deal makes perfect sense for the Braves. However, given Heyward's prior contract demands, I'm sort of surprised that the Cardinals jumped on this for 2015, especially since the Cardinals rarely sign long-term extensions at market-rate prices (which is basically what Heyward appeared to want from Atlanta; think $150-200 million over 10-12 years). Given the Cardinals current roster, I don't think the Cardinals extend him. The Cardinals core is aging, and they are running out of minor league options to replace them. I think the Cardinals picked him up as a GFIN, with the idea they can use him as part of a mid-season trade package if they are unlikely to contend next year.
EDIT: Then again, my opinion may be shaped by the fact that I'm hoping the Red Sox can sign him as a FA after 2015...
Joe Posnanski on Heyward vis a vis Stanton: http://joeposnanski.com/joeblogs/heyward-and-stanton/#more-2440
Good deal on both sides but really hammers home how much the paradigm is shifting from overpaying pitchers to overpaying hitters in this offensive suppressed league. A few years ago, this trade would have never happened. I know that Miller has been a bit hit or miss but it's 4 years of control of a guy with a lot of potential.