Brandon Browner Watch Thread

tims4wins · Mar 13, 2014

Hey it worked for Revis...

In reality, my guess is he leaves town without a deal and then quickly signs with the NYJ to replace Cro

rodderick · Mar 13, 2014

My only concern is if the Pats want him to play safety, he may opt to go to a place that'll employ him as a number 1 corner, because that's where the money is.

Otis Foster · Mar 13, 2014

tims4wins said:
Hey it worked for Revis...

In reality, my guess is he leaves town without a deal and then quickly signs with the NYJ to replace Cro

Could be. TGG's desire for revenge usually overwhelms whatever traces of common sense reside in that fan base, and they need some more red meat. Still, I'd love it if BB could convince him to play SS.

bsj · Mar 13, 2014

rodderick said:
My only problem is if the Pats want him to play safety, he may opt to go to a place that'll employ him as a number 1 corner, because that's where the money is.

I dont know that there is a "real money" option for him for 2014. He's going to get a 12 game tryout en route to, hopefully for him, a longterm deal in 2015.

To your point, though, he will prob have more leverage towards a big $ deal coming off a big year on the corner.

Reverend · Mar 13, 2014

SeoulSoxFan said:
Also, I read on another board that Browner was unfairly graded as 3rd tier offender, as he was only caught once in the NFL and was penalized for missed drug testing while playing in Canada.

Is that true?

Yes. His case is basically the biggest farce in the policy's history that I can think of to the point he was willing even to speak out publicly against it which a lot of guys won't do.

Off topic: SSF, do you have one of those medical alert necklaces where you can press a button and the EMTs come or something? If the Pats land anyone else significant, well, I'm worried about you.

Eck'sSneakyCheese · Mar 13, 2014

rodderick said:
My only concern is if the Pats want him to play safety, he may opt to go to a place that'll employ him as a number 1 corner, because that's where the money is.

No one is going to employ him as a #1. He's more of a complimentary defender than a lockdown guy. That being said the market for safeties isn't that bad. Look at what Byrd just got. If he can cut it as a safety, he can make himself some money.

DanoooME · Mar 13, 2014

SeoulSoxFan said:
Also, I read on another board that Browner was unfairly graded as 3rd tier offender, as he was only caught once in the NFL and was penalized for missed drug testing while playing in Canada.

Is that true?

That is true. There might be an article in the Seahawks 2013 thread about the situation. If not, I'll try and dig something up about it. The situation is total BS.

And the problem that comes out of it is that I guess he's still considered a 3rd tier offender even after the threats of lawsuits.

Super Nomario · Mar 13, 2014

At 6'4", Browner seems like a great option for locking down opposing TEs.

DJnVa · Mar 13, 2014

Eck'sSneakyCheese said:
No one is going to employ him as a #1. He's more of a complimentary defender than a lockdown guy. That being said the market for safeties isn't that bad. Look at what Byrd just got. If he can cut it as a safety, he can make himself some money.

Not only that, but it's tough to see a team wanting him to be a #1 when he's going to miss 4 games. He needs to go be a good soldier somewhere for a season.

mascho · Mar 13, 2014

So Revis/Dennard outside. McCourty deep. Browner near the LOS as a CB/SS hybrid focusing on TEs. Ryan/Arrington in the slot. Harmon for depth. A later round CB for depth and to learn under Revis.

Pants still off.

RhaegarTharen · Mar 13, 2014

With the huge caveat that Browner may very well (and justifiably) feel differently - if he's looking for a 1 year make good contract to establish himself as a premier safety - there aren't many better places to do it than a backfield coached by Belichick that will feature Revis and McCourty as well.

Edit: Just stating the obvious, but only because it's so boneriffic.

AlNipper49 · Mar 13, 2014

Eck'sSneakyCheese said:
No one is going to employ him as a #1. He's more of a complimentary defender than a lockdown guy. That being said the market for safeties isn't that bad. Look at what Byrd just got. If he can cut it as a safety, he can make himself some money.

If you're looking for big money wouldn't it make sense to be CB2 with a short-term deal on a team where CB1 may get only 5 ball thrown at him all year long?

bsj · Mar 13, 2014

AlNipper49 said:
If you're looking for big money wouldn't it make sense to be CB2 with a short-term deal on a team where CB1 may get only 5 ball thrown at him all year long?

That's actually a good point. It would not be very different than the situation where he was across the field from Sherman, who many people believe made him look very very good.

DaughtersofDougMirabelli · Mar 13, 2014

Eck'sSneakyCheese said:
No one is going to employ him as a #1. He's more of a complimentary defender than a lockdown guy. That being said the market for safeties isn't that bad. Look at what Byrd just got. If he can cut it as a safety, he can make himself some money.

I think I agree with rodderick. He'd rather be a full time soldier as a CB for a season so that next season he can get paid CB money. Average salary for CBs is much higher, comparing him to one of the best safeties in the league doesn't really hold water. He won't get Byrd money as a one year safety.

Eck'sSneakyCheese · Mar 13, 2014

AlNipper49 said:
If you're looking for big money wouldn't it make sense to be CB2 with a short-term deal on a team where CB1 may get only 5 ball thrown at him all year long?

DaughtersofDougMirabelli said:
I think I agree with rodderick. He'd rather be a full time soldier as a CB for a season so that next season he can get paid CB money. Average salary for CBs is much higher, comparing him to one of the best safeties in the league doesn't really hold water. He won't get Byrd money as a one year safety.

He'll be 31 at the beginning of the 2015 NFL season. Is he going to get "big" money regardless? My point was that the difference in money from being a complimentary corner and a starting safety doesn't seem to be that different. I was using Byrds contract as an outlier.

rodderick · Mar 13, 2014

Eck'sSneakyCheese said:
He'll be 31 at the beginning of the 2015 NFL season. is he going to get "big" money regardless? My point was that the difference in money from being a complimentary corner and a starting safety doesn't seem to be that different. I was using Byrds contract as an outlier.

I thought he was a bit younger than that. You're right that at 31 odds are he won't see a big payday.

DaughtersofDougMirabelli · Mar 13, 2014

Eck'sSneakyCheese said:
He'll be 31 at the beginning of the 2015 NFL season. Is he going to get "big" money regardless? My point was that the difference in money from being a complimentary corner and a starting safety doesn't seem to be that different. I was using Byrds contract as an outlier.

I never said he'd get big money, but he'll be looking for that last contract. I think he'd rather get that contract as a CB than a S.

Jettisoned · Mar 13, 2014

Most of the best teams have receiving TE's now and defenders who are big enough to not get manhandled and fast enough not to get burned by them are hard to come by. Last year the Pats were forced to use a LB and a CB to jam some of these guys at the LOS. If you get a CB that can cover them more or less on his own, you effectively get another defender on the field.

I bet if the Pats sign Browner for a year and use him effectively against receiving TE's, he'll get a pretty good contract in 2015.

GBrushTWood · Mar 13, 2014

The Pats could really use Browner to defend against Julius Thomas when playing Denver next year. Not to mention all the other receiving TE's that historically have caused matchup problems for the Pats...

normstalls · Mar 13, 2014

Pardon my ignorance but would Browner be able to remain around the facility and participate in meetings?

Seems like usually suspended players can, but I did see something about the length of the suspension impacting that.

bakahump · Mar 13, 2014

I might try and argue the opposite...

AlNipper49 said:
If you're looking for big money wouldn't it make sense to be CB2 with a short-term deal on a team where CB1 may get only 5 ball thrown at him all year long?

You know they are not throwing Revis way...so they throw your way....alot.

Yes if you rack up 6 Ints and a bunch of pass defended then you look good.

On the flip side....if they beat you like a rented mule often and repeatedly you look very very bad.

Even somewhere in the middle doesnt set you up for a big pay day.

As a S however I assume (though not sure) that your Targets are drastically reduced in PFF ratings as they dont assume your locked up man for man on a guy every play. You then get the added benny of "playing centerfield" and collecting a few cheap Ints. Fewer targets....nor Ints per capita.....might set you up nicely as a big payday safety. Even if Safetys are a tier below cbs salary wise.

Nothing new....a dude gambling on his ability.....or taking a little safer payday.

bsartist618 · Mar 13, 2014

Jettisoned said:
Most of the best teams have receiving TE's now and defenders who are big enough to not get manhandled and fast enough not to get burned by them are hard to come by. Last year the Pats were forced to use a LB and a CB to jam some of these guys at the LOS. If you get a CB that can cover them more or less on his own, you effectively get another defender on the field.

I bet if the Pats sign Browner for a year and use him effectively against receiving TE's, he'll get a pretty good contract in 2015.

This is where I stand. I think you would see Browner covering the other team's "big" receivers whether that's a TE or an Anquan Boldin type WR similar to what we would sometimes see Talib doing in '13.

dcmissle · Mar 13, 2014

We've been getting ass raped on seam routes by big-and-fast, or just big, TEs for longer than anyone cares to remember.

inJacobyWeTrust · Mar 13, 2014

normstalls said:
Pardon my ignorance but would Browner be able to remain around the facility and participate in meetings?

Seems like usually suspended players can, but I did see something about the length of the suspension impacting that.

I believe it was LaCanfora on the radio this AM said that he would be able to participate fully in all OTAs/meetings/etc while suspended.

mascho · Mar 13, 2014

Do we know anyone with any pull at the FAA? I'd like to see a ground stop put in place at Logan/TF Green/Manchester. Hell, throw in Bradley "International" too.

DaughtersofDougMirabelli · Mar 13, 2014

I think Browner fits great for the Pats, would love the signing. I'm just not sure if Browner is deciding between similar 1 year contracts why he wouldn't take a CB2/CB1 guarantee over a SS/CB3/TE/large WR specialist role.

mascho · Mar 13, 2014

Perhaps they can sell him on the "Rodney Harrison/Corey Dillon/Randy Moss Image Rehabilitation Tour." He's 29 but has less mileage on him, so he has some good years left. Come in, be a good soldier and maybe turn this lower end deal into a bigger one in NE or elsewhere.

Although something tells me the Raiders throw some big money his way.

Eck'sSneakyCheese · Mar 13, 2014

DaughtersofDougMirabelli said:
I think Browner fits great for the Pats, would love the signing. I'm just not sure if Browner is deciding between similar 1 year contracts why he wouldn't take a CB2/CB1 guarantee over a SS/CB3/TE/large WR specialist role.

I don't know. I'd argue if he plays the latter roll well he'll get paid. Especially with more athletic big receivers/TE's entering the league.

Toe Nash · Mar 13, 2014

I'm not sure Browner would be signed to play safety instead of CB. Against all but the most run-heavy teams (are there any of those anymore?) the Pats basically had 3 CBs on the field at all times last year. In the AFC championship Arrington played 72, Dennard 67 and Talib / Ryan played 77 (of 75) snaps. Against the Colts it was Talib 64, Dennard 53, and Ryan / Arrington 58 (of 65). Seems Browner would still play 90% of the snaps if he was the "#3" CB, and it's not out of the question for him to overtake Dennard on the depth chart.

I agree that he would be a good weapon against a Jimmy Graham / Dennis Pitta type, so it may just be semantics whether he's a CB2 or "nickel" guy.

Edit: In the regular season overall, they had a 3rd CB / 5th DB on the field for 67% of all snaps: http://espn.go.com/blog/boston/new-england-patriots/category/_/name/defensive-snaps-2

shoosh77 · Mar 13, 2014

Eck'sSneakyCheese said:
I don't know. I'd argue if he plays the latter roll well he'll get paid. Especially with more athletic big receivers/TE's entering the league.

How about the chance to showcase himself in the playoffs also, where the real money gets made?

gmogmo · Mar 13, 2014

I wonder if they're able to get Browner they don't go the Wesley Woodyard route...obviously don't play the same position, but could see a similar role for both on passing downs.

Mooch · Mar 13, 2014

gmogmo said:
I wonder if they're able to get Browner they don't go the Wesley Woodyard route...obviously don't play the same position, but could see a similar role for both on passing downs.

Really? I was under the impression that Browner is a CB who can play safety and Woodyard is a weakside linebacker who can drop into coverage. To me, those are very different skill sets entirely.

bradmahn · Mar 13, 2014

I think it would be great to have Revis and Dennard on the outside with Arrington/Browner as a match-up-based nickel corner, while Browner and Ryan provide exceptional depth behind Revis and Dennard.

Against shifty slot receivers like Welker, Arrington is called on. Against glorified TEs that align in the slot like Dennis Pitta or Jimmy Graham, Browner would be the star.

I wouldn't be surprised if Belichick wants to play around with a 7 man front with 3 corners and 1 safety, as we saw when they wanted to be bigger against the run last year but still upgrade the pass defense. They could save the money they might spend on a big-hitting SS in FA and target someone of that nature in the draft and roll with McCourty-Harmon-Draft Pick-Tavon Wilson-Nate Ebner as the depth chart at S.

Good DBs are more and more like starting pitching, even down to the high risk of injury and the depth it necessitates.

Tony C · Mar 13, 2014

Toe Nash said:
I'm not sure Browner would be signed to play safety instead of CB. Against all but the most run-heavy teams (are there any of those anymore?) the Pats basically had 3 CBs on the field at all times last year. In the AFC championship Arrington played 72, Dennard 67 and Talib / Ryan played 77 (of 75) snaps. Against the Colts it was Talib 64, Dennard 53, and Ryan / Arrington 58 (of 65). Seems Browner would still play 90% of the snaps if he was the "#3" CB, and it's not out of the question for him to overtake Dennard on the depth chart.

I agree that he would be a good weapon against a Jimmy Graham / Dennis Pitta type, so it may just be semantics whether he's a CB2 or "nickel" guy.

Edit: In the regular season overall, they had a 3rd CB / 5th DB on the field for 67% of all snaps: http://espn.go.com/blog/boston/new-england-patriots/category/_/name/defensive-snaps-2

Yep, this is right on -- I think the safety vs CB debate is semantics (a bit like is Jimmy Graham a WR or TE). Browner will be on the field for most of the game, depending on match-ups. I agree with the direction of Bradmahn's post -- this gives (edit: er..."would give," I mean) the Pats an incredibly flexible secondary, able to match up with virtually any receiving corps.

Mooch said:
Really? I was under the impression that Browner is a CB who can play safety and Woodyard is a weakside linebacker who can drop into coverage. To me, those are very different skill sets entirely.

Certainly, but I think his point was that they converge in a sense -- we all agree that what has hurt the Pats at times are big TEs and RBs out of the backfield. Whether it's a LB who plays back to focus on coverage or a big CB or safety who plays closer to scrimmage, they'd both help the defense stop that element of an NFL attack.

Corsi · Mar 13, 2014

Mike Loyko ‏@NEPD_Loyko 1m
Redskins agreed to terms with Tracy Porter.. Browner had visit schedule there.. did they know he wasn't going to make it there?

ElcaballitoMVP · Mar 13, 2014

DaughtersofDougMirabelli said:
I never said he'd get big money, but he'll be looking for that last contract. I think he'd rather get that contract as a CB than a S.

You're probably right in that he'd prefer to get the CB contract, but if he's going to be 31 going into next season, there are going to be teams who wonder about his speed and how long he can keep up with guys on the outside. Once that goes, it's either to safety or out of the league. If he's willing to play some safety and play it well, he may increase his market as a guy who can play both positions.

I'd love to add Browner here. The contract should be reasonable due to the suspension and off the field concerns while also giving him a season to rebuild his value.

bakahump said:
I might try and argue the opposite...

Nothing new....a dude gambling on his ability.....or taking a little safer payday.

And I'd say that's exactly the type of situation a guy like Browner should be looking for. If he can parlay a short season into 6-8 picks and shows he can be a physical presence in the secondary, teams are still going to throw money his way. Now I don't expect Talib or Revis money. But If you think you're good enough, playing opposite Revis with DMC protecting over the top sounds like a pretty good situation to be in to make some money.

Cellar-Door · Mar 13, 2014

Corsi said:

Washington needs at least 2, players in the secondary. They were brutal.

Reverend · Mar 13, 2014

Tony C said:
Yep, this is right on -- I think the safety vs CB debate is semantics (a bit like is Jimmy Graham a WR or TE).

I was thinking exactly this, including the Graham comp. We know that Belichick considers slot CB as a different position than outside CB, and "base defensive" has lost a good deal of it's meaning. I don't expect he gets caught up in the categories that people prefer but thinks in terms of constellations of players that work well in units.

soxfan121 · Mar 13, 2014

Reverend said:
I was thinking exactly this, including the Graham comp. We know that Belichick considers slot CB as a different position than outside CB, and "base defensive" has lost a good deal of it's meaning. I don't expect he gets caught up in the categories that people prefer but thinks in terms of constellations of players that work well in units.

And part of the way we know this is how much they paid Arrington to fill the role. Unfortunately for most fans (although not for me, as I've long been one of the few insisting that Arrington is not nearly as bad as he's perceived to be by fans), Arrington cannot be cut this season without losing money against the cap.

So, while I think this Browner theory has some interesting aspects, I don't think he's realistic as a 3rd or slot corner or as a safety.

Woodyard as a big safety...that is worth exploring.

RedOctober3829 · Mar 13, 2014

Browner is visiting New Orleans in addition to Washington and New England per Clayton.

soxhop411 · Mar 13, 2014

Is he still in NE?

Have not seen any tweets that he left, and was on his way to WSH….

mascho · Mar 13, 2014

I can't vouch for this particular Twitter account, but here ya go:

@PatriotsSB49 19m
A certain CB visiting Foxboro never left to his next scheduled visit tonight. So there's that.

DJnVa · Mar 13, 2014

Yeah, that account appears just to be a fan. How's he breaking this?

RedOctober3829 · Mar 13, 2014

DrewDawg said:
Yeah, that account appears just to be a fan. How's he breaking this?

Maybe it's Erika Leigh's source

Darnell's Son · Mar 13, 2014

Reverend said:
I was thinking exactly this, including the Graham comp. We know that Belichick considers slot CB as a different position than outside CB, and "base defensive" has lost a good deal of it's meaning. I don't expect he gets caught up in the categories that people prefer but thinks in terms of constellations of players that work well in units.

I think Belichick not caring about positions goes along with the idea that he is always looking for football players. He doesn't care if you have a certain position, he will figure out the best way to use you. Edelman, Troy Brown, and Vrabel come to mind when thinking like this. He maximizes the talent that the players have. If he can get Browner to sign, then he will figure out the best ways to use him in situations that will benefit the team.

JerBear · Mar 13, 2014

RedOctober3829 said:
Maybe it's Erika Leigh's source

Probably works in the pro shop and saw him shopping for bargain Wilfork jerseys.

Brandon Browner Watch Thread

I Want to Hit the World with Rocket Punch

PN23's replacement

I Want to Hit the World with Rocket Punch

Member

rex ryan's podiatrist

Renegade Crazed Genius

for king and country

Member

above replacement level

Member

Dorito Dawg

Kane is Able

Member

Huge Member

Renegade Crazed Genius

Member

Member

Member

I Want to Hit the World with Rocket Punch

Member

Member

New Member

Member

Well-Known Member

Member

Deflatigator

Member

Kane is Able

Member

Kane is Able

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Moderator

isn't shy about blowing his wad early

Member

Member

for king and country

JAG

Member

I Want to Hit the World with Rocket Punch

news aggravator

Kane is Able

Dorito Dawg

Member

He's a machine.

Member