Brady wants to "divorce" Belichick

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bakahump

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Your probably right. As I admitted he is a smart guy and seen lots of stuff (like all the stuff you mention).

Though Emotions are a hell of a drug.
 

tims4wins

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Your probably right. As I admitted he is a smart guy and seen lots of stuff (like all the stuff you mention).

Though Emotions are a hell of a drug.
Right, Brady seems to be the ultimate "I'll prove you wrong" type of guy; proving to everyone that he could win without BB would be the final feather in his career cap.

But I'm also not sure he has that exact mentality any more.
 

lexrageorge

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Unless Brady retires, which is always a possibility, it's a 99% chance likelihood he plays for the Pats in 2019. After that, it really will be his decision if and where he plays. Whether he'd actually want to head for greener pastures at that point in his career (when he'll be 43) is unanswerable at this point in time, IMO.
 

SMU_Sox

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I think Butters can summarize how I feel about this topic of discussion.

Also: When's Bob Woodward going to come out with his "Fear: Belichick The Tyrant"?
 

DJnVa

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If Brady wanted to leave he didn't need to do the dozens of contract restructures.

If BB wanted to replace him he'd have kept JG, or spent a draft choice on another potential replacement.

Both sides had multiple chances to split apart.
 

joe dokes

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If Brady wanted to leave he didn't need to do the dozens of contract restructures.

If BB wanted to replace him he'd have kept JG, or spent a draft choice on another potential replacement.

Both sides had multiple chances to split apart.
But they stayed together for the sake of the kids.

(oh, wait...that's usually a bad idea. never mind).
 

BaseballJones

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Not sure I buy this. He has seen a HoF QB in Big Ben not in a Super Bowl since 2010, not having won since 2008. Another HoF Rodgers hasn't won a Super Bowl since 2010. So many of these other title teams have not had long-term success (Broncos, Seahawks, Ravens, Giants). I think he realizes how unique of an environment he is in. Maybe if he saw another potential great coach out there he could buy that he would win elsewhere, but I don't think he believes he could take his talents anywhere and win like say LeBron.
I'm sure he knows that year in, year out, New England represents his best chance to win. He does, unless he's completely lying, have a tremendous amount of respect for Belichick and knows he has an absolutely all-time great coach. But he's a man with an ego, and he's not stupid, and I'm sure he understands that he is the single biggest on-field reason why the Patriots are so good, year in and year out.

I'm sure he could look at, say, the Texans or Jaguars or Vikings, with all that talent, and think, "I could win a Super Bowl with those teams." Now whether those teams would give up their QBs for a year or two of Brady is unclear, so I'm sure part of his calculation is whether the teams he could win with actually would go after him. But if I'm Minnesota, I'd think long and hard about dealing Cousins for some good draft picks (and at this point, he'd bring back a nice haul), signing Brady, and making a run. That would be a hell of a team with the added draft picks and Brady at the helm.
 

lexrageorge

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I'm sure he knows that year in, year out, New England represents his best chance to win. He does, unless he's completely lying, have a tremendous amount of respect for Belichick and knows he has an absolutely all-time great coach. But he's a man with an ego, and he's not stupid, and I'm sure he understands that he is the single biggest on-field reason why the Patriots are so good, year in and year out.

I'm sure he could look at, say, the Texans or Jaguars or Vikings, with all that talent, and think, "I could win a Super Bowl with those teams." Now whether those teams would give up their QBs for a year or two of Brady is unclear, so I'm sure part of his calculation is whether the teams he could win with actually would go after him. But if I'm Minnesota, I'd think long and hard about dealing Cousins for some good draft picks (and at this point, he'd bring back a nice haul), signing Brady, and making a run. That would be a hell of a team with the added draft picks and Brady at the helm.
The fact that Brady is not available until 2020 makes it unlikely that the Vikings would do that.
 

BaseballJones

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Do you guys get the point I'm trying to make or are you just gonna deliberately not see the forest for the trees?
 

Papelbon's Poutine

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Reports last year indicated that this is the last year of his contract, so maybe he envisioned going a certain length. Or he might go somewhere else for a few years or just call it quits. I was thinking Giants if they had drafted a QB, but nope.

Just a hunch.
Talking to Theo's sources, huh?
 

Papelbon's Poutine

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O'Connor's book is undeniably salacious and headline-grabbing.

That said, the persistent cries of "FAKE NEWS" w/r/t everything regarding the Patriots' drama with Belichick/Brady/Kraft/Gronk/Jimmy G/Guerrero on this board are tired and beneath the posting quality expected here. It's pretty clear at this point that the general gist of last year's Seth Wickersham story--that Belichick is beginning to wear on Brady et al--is true and has been confirmed by multiple writers, including Curran.

I know we'd all like to imagine everything is hunky dory in Patriot Place -- and maybe they will all act like adults and get thru Brady's final years in one piece. But I'd prefer if we dispensed with the argument that this is entirely a media-driven controversy.
Funny, I take the exact opposite take on the bolded. I think we're above #hottakez and yet we waste so much time discussing them. Pardon me if you think it's foolish to be jaded about the media in this town in general and more specifically about this team. If you want to buy into Wickersham or Curran, knock yourself out; but I think its kind of silly to criticize people that aren't joining you in lighting your hair on fire. Pardon our lack of irrationality.

One thing I do know is I'm certainly not going to give a second thought to Ian O'Connor trying to pedal a book; the guy is a fucking joke and I don't believe for a second he has any real sources here.
 

Ed Hillel

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Funny, I take the exact opposite take on the bolded. I think we're above #hottakez and yet we waste so much time discussing them. Pardon me if you think it's foolish to be jaded about the media in this town in general and more specifically about this team. If you want to buy into Wickersham or Curran, knock yourself out; but I think its kind of silly to criticize people that aren't joining you in lighting your hair on fire. Pardon our lack of irrationality.

One thing I do know is I'm certainly not going to give a second thought to Ian O'Connor trying to pedal a book; the guy is a fucking joke and I don't believe for a second he has any real sources here.
It’s not really a hot take at this point; it’s pretty clear there’s been significant friction between Belichick and Brady in the past year and maybe more. Kraft, Reiss, and Brady have all acknowledged it, so you don’t need to bring the talking heads’ views into it to reach the conclusion. It’s equally as obvious they have the ability to work through it, though where it stands now and how long things can last if there still is is anybody’s guess.
 

Captaincoop

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I would be willing to bet that both Brady and Belichick believe in their heart of hearts that they could have had similar unprecedented success without the other one. That mentality is what makes them them.
 

cornwalls@6

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I’m at the point now where I don’t give a shit about any of this stuff anymore. Think I exhausted it all with deflate gate. If this is the last year of the run, or if it’s actually already over, I’m going to savor every minute there is left of BB/TB. “Bombshells” like these are the definition of first world problems. I followed them through the Lisa Olsen disgrace, Victor Kiam, Rod Rust, Dick Mac., etc. The last 18 years have been beyond anybody’s wildest imagination. I’m satiated. Anything else from these guys will be delicious gluttony.
 

Papelbon's Poutine

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It’s not really a hot take at this point; it’s pretty clear there’s been significant friction between Belichick and Brady in the past year and maybe more. Kraft, Reiss, and Brady have all acknowledged it, so you don’t need to bring the talking heads’ views into it to reach the conclusion. It’s equally as obvious they have the ability to work through it, though where it stands now and how long things can last if there still is is anybody’s guess.
A national writer - who bathed in the Deflategate hysteria - wrote a book slamming BB and including a quote from (paraphrasing) "an unnamed Patriots assistant coach who claims 'if you gave us the 15th best QB in the league, we'd still have done what we did", but yeah, I shouldn't be skeptical. Totally on me for not sounding the alarms.
 

Ed Hillel

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A national writer - who bathed in the Deflategate hysteria - wrote a book slamming BB and including a quote from (paraphrasing) "an unnamed Patriots assistant coach who claims 'if you gave us the 15th best QB in the league, we'd still have done what we did", but yeah, I shouldn't be skeptical. Totally on me for not sounding the alarms.
If you don’t want to believe Kraft, Reiss, and Brady, that’s up to you. I don’t really care about the drama at this point, but it’s abundantly clear there have been some issues the past couple years. They’ve likely been overstated and sensationalized by the media, and I’m sure some elements are just plain false, but there’s been tension. It’s quite natural, too. They’ve been a team for 18 years and, if players are to be believed, playing for Belichick is mentally and physically exhausting. And we know how Brady is with Guerrero, which I imagine is no walk in the park for Belichick.

Who really cares, though? They work through it and have forged probably the greatest dynasty in NFL history. Worse things have happened.
 

Papelbon's Poutine

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If you don’t want to believe Kraft, Reiss, and Brady, that’s up to you. I don’t really care about the drama at this point, but it’s abundantly clear there have been some issues the past couple years. They’ve likely been overstated and sensationalized by the media, and I’m sure some elements are just plain false, but there’s been tension. It’s quite natural, too. They’ve been a team for 18 years and, if players are to be believed, playing for Belichick is mentally and physically exhausting. And we know how Brady is with Guerrero, which I imagine is no walk in the park for Belichick.

Who really cares, though? They work through it and have forged probably the greatest dynasty in NFL history. Worse things have happened.
I don’t see where we are disagreeing? Maybe just if I didn’t use ‘#hottakez’?

Personally, I find it difficult to believe any of this is new. If there’s truth to what we read, that’s the only new part, that it got out. And I find it a stretch to assume rumors are true or to read too much into mild comments from Kraft or TB. Reiss is as tied in as one can be, but I’d wager he still gets about 20% of what’s going on. I’m certainly not putting any weight into national writers or idiots like OConnor. At the beer least, I think it’s kind of asinine to claim that it’s below board standards to not put weight into what is mostly hearsay and conjecture. Which was what I responded to. There’s a vast sea between Chip screaming ‘All is well!’ and declaring the castle is collapsing from the inside.
 

TheoShmeo

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This every-year farce is to the point that I’m pretty sure this is an inside job used as a unifying motivational tactic by someone within the organization. TheoShmeo’s sources who are always wrong but love to stir the pot are definitely involved.
My sources are not involved and have no opinion on this, but are more annoyed than they should be over two Toilet losses.
 

InstaFace

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O'Connor's book is undeniably salacious and headline-grabbing.

That said, the persistent cries of "FAKE NEWS" w/r/t everything regarding the Patriots' drama with Belichick/Brady/Kraft/Gronk/Jimmy G/Guerrero on this board are tired and beneath the posting quality expected here. It's pretty clear at this point that the general gist of last year's Seth Wickersham story--that Belichick is beginning to wear on Brady et al--is true and has been confirmed by multiple writers, including Curran.

I know we'd all like to imagine everything is hunky dory in Patriot Place -- and maybe they will all act like adults and get thru Brady's final years in one piece. But I'd prefer if we dispensed with the argument that this is entirely a media-driven controversy.
So, like others have said, there are some kernels of probably-truth buried among the hype and games of telephone played by morons (the sportswriters, not you guys). What rang true for me was this:

Asked by broadcaster Jim Gray in late April if he felt appreciated by Belichick and owner Robert Kraft (with whom the quarterback maintains a close relationship), Brady responded, "I plead the Fifth! ... Man, that is a tough question."
Bolding is mine, because... felt appreciated? That's simply not how Belichick operates. He is extreme, bizarre even by NFL head coach standards, in the extent to which he exhibits no ego. He doesn't care if he's liked or hated, feared or loved (and doesn't have to). He doesn't have hobbies outside of football. He barely has things he likes - he likes Linda, a few close friends, and sitting in his boat staring at the waves. All of that pales in comparison to the extent that he is obsessed by thinking about and planning for the next football game. Even when that's next season, 7 months away. He's a monomaniac, for all intents and purposes. Even though he said otherwise on camera in 2009, it seems he'd be fully happy to die on the treadmill watching film or reading scouting reports.

Brady, unlike Belichick (and like most humans) has other things he enjoys. He has goals after football, though he wants to keep the party going as long as he can. He's well grounded and all, but he cares somewhat for how he's perceived. He gets supremely pissed after losses, because he'll never get over being second fiddle to Drew Henson. He's not needy, but he still has standard human needs.

Now, does Brady "feel appreciated"? That's really the wrong question to ask. He appreciates what Belichick does for his career and for winning. He appreciates that he has several absurdly unfair advantages in his corner, starting with his coach and owner and of course also his wife's income. But he also knows it's not coach's style to praise, to cut slack, to do anything but drive everybody to be red-lining all of the time, just like he is. He gets validation from having been the tip of Belichick's spear as they together skewered the league, from having all this success together, from still having his incredible job at an age when all but kickers have retired from the league. From winning, week after week, better than 3 out of every 4. Would it be nice if Belichick would occasionally kick back with the two of them in his office and say "you know, I can't fucking believe how lucky we are to have you"? Sure. If he didn't drop dead from the shock the first time. But he says it implicitly, with everything from laughing at John Lynch when he asked if Brady was available, to not making some sort of scene over the OTAs thing. He gets the flowing words of praise from Kraft. And ultimately, he knows that he'd rather have the winning than all the words of praise in the world.

So yeah, no shit he pleads the fif'. If he were buddhist, he'd un-ask the question.
 

steveluck7

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Bolding is mine, because... felt appreciated? That's simply not how Belichick operates.
I have a bit of a theory regarding the "appreciated... plead the 5th" issue. If you remember, in Tom v. Time, it was Giselle who said he wants to feel appreciated.
I think Tom's "plead the 5th" was more to cover his ass with his wife.
Just a (probably crazy) theory but I've felt it all along. I actually think Tom miscalculated how much of what he talked about in the series would be interpreted
 

TheoShmeo

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Silly me. I do have a source on this, albeit one that is indirect.

Several Giant players live on a temporary or quasi permanent basis near me in an apartment building just off route 3 and about five miles away from Met Life Stadium called the Avenue. Nate Solder lived there this summer.

In any event, a good friend bumped into Solder in a nearby park and Solder was very forthcoming. He said that he left the Pats not because of money (believe that if you wish) but rather because as much as he appreciated Bill’s greatness and winning, he was tired of the joylessness of it all and Bill never really appreciating him. He said that the kindness they showed him around his son was the only time he really saw a human side. BB says on Day 1 of TC that players should be prepared to have no life outside of football until after the last game.

Solder wasn’t able to do that anymore.

Cue the jokes, I know. I thought this was interesting and could bear on how Tom thinks now. Not that Solder said anything along those lines about Brady to my friend.
 

BaseballJones

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Silly me. I do have a source on this, albeit one that is indirect.

Several Giant players live on a temporary or quasi permanent basis near me in an apartment building just off route 3 and about five miles away from Met Life Stadium called the Avenue. Nate Solder lived there this summer.

In any event, a good friend bumped into Solder in a nearby park and Solder was very forthcoming. He said that he left the Pats not because of money (believe that if you wish) but rather because as much as he appreciated Bill’s greatness and winning, he was tired of the joylessness of it all and Bill never really appreciating him. He said that the kindness they showed him around his son was the only time he really saw a human side. BB says on Day 1 of TC that players should be prepared to have no life outside of football until after the last game.

Solder wasn’t able to do that anymore.

Cue the jokes, I know. I thought this was interesting and could bear on how Tom thinks now. Not that Solder said anything along those lines about Brady to my friend.
I can believe this. And honestly, winning-is-everything just isn't for everyone. Personally, I'd be fine if my company was third in market share if it was a great place to work and I loved being there. I don't have to "win" all the time. It's not sports but it's the same principle. There are some players who want to win above all else and are willing to be "all football, all the time, remorselessly" guys, and there are others who say, "Yeah, winning matters to me but I want the freedom to speak out, I want to have more enjoyment at my job so winning isn't EVERYTHING".

There's nothing wrong with either. As fans, we want the guys who are all football all the time, because that commitment to winning means that we get to experience more championships than anyone else and that's what we want as fans. But we don't really pay much attention to these guys as human beings. Let's be honest. How many of us know or care what Trey Flowers' interests are? We just want the guy to be healthy and crush opposing quarterbacks. Heck, when a key player's wife is having a baby on a game day, probably most fans want the player to be with the team instead of his wife.

So we love the winning-is-everything guys because we want our team to win, and it increases the chances of our team being the best. But these guys are people too. Brady seems like a football cyborg but he's a guy with feelings and desires and his own set of insecurities and even though he handles it incredibly well, I'm sure there have been plenty of times where he's felt angry or hurt at how Belichick treats him.
 

Van Everyman

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Belichick is the guy who famously qualifies winning the Super Bowl as being behind on all the work they need to do in the offseason. He is obsessive to an extreme degree. Brady is as well ... but he also has a young family and is nearing the end of his career. The idea that guys who value other things in life like family--and I would put both Brady and Solder in that category--might chafe at Belichick's single-minded focus on football after a number of years should not be surprising. So Solder leaves for greener pastures and Brady skips OTAs to attend conferences in Los Angeles, and the Met Gala, and take trips to Brazil with his family.
 

joe dokes

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Silly me. I do have a source on this, albeit one that is indirect.

Several Giant players live on a temporary or quasi permanent basis near me in an apartment building just off route 3 and about five miles away from Met Life Stadium called the Avenue. Nate Solder lived there this summer.

In any event, a good friend bumped into Solder in a nearby park and Solder was very forthcoming. He said that he left the Pats not because of money (believe that if you wish) but rather because as much as he appreciated Bill’s greatness and winning, he was tired of the joylessness of it all and Bill never really appreciating him. He said that the kindness they showed him around his son was the only time he really saw a human side. BB says on Day 1 of TC that players should be prepared to have no life outside of football until after the last game.

Solder wasn’t able to do that anymore.

Cue the jokes, I know. I thought this was interesting and could bear on how Tom thinks now. Not that Solder said anything along those lines about Brady to my friend.

That's interesting. Not terribly surprising, I guess (and consistent with what Solder said when he left (players tribune, maybe?). I think we all would have guessed that BB says something like that. And maybe that last extra bit of personal sacrificing the players have to do is the difference between winning a lot (like many teams do), and making the final four *every* year. That's the theory, anyway. Given the sacrifice it takes to even play at alI, I dont begrudge anyone who chooses not-Patriots.
Thanks for passing that along. The nuanced views are always more useful. And Solder has always sounded like a thoughtful guy.

Its ironic that the toughest most successful place to play is also the last refuge for many. Like "oh shit......I screwed up so many times that the only place I can play is the place that wont let me screw up at all."
 

lexrageorge

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While Nate Solder did seem to hint that playing for Belichick and the Patriots can be difficult (not exact words, but you get the idea), the fact that he got nearly $35M guaranteed to play for the Giants may very well have had some bearing on his decision. He wasn't going to get that from the Patriots.
 

InstaFace

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I have no problem with the Nate Solder story (if, indeed, it's true - bit of a game of telephone here). Dude put up with the roughest, most intense regime for sports that we can imagine, for 7 years. Frankly, I'm amazed more long-term Patriots don't burn out before they're cast aside. You'd think Hightower, McCourty et al would be candidates, and yet, here they are.
 

bakahump

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That was my point earlier about Brady.

At some point almost every player must say "This could be just as good somewhere else".
Maybe the winning is less but the "atmosphere" is more enjoyable.
Hell would it surprise anyone if even winning is joyless with the Patriots (save for winning the SB)?

Think of it like this
Training Camp (better with the Giants or whomever cause we are not running hills)
After a loss (not great but better with the Giants then with the Pats).
After a win (Better with the Giants because they "are given" time to enjoy it and the coaches actually point out good things).
Not making the Post season (probably worse then being on the Pats who always make the postseason).
Playoffs but Not winning it all (Better on the Giants who probably say "we had a great year and made the NFC Wildcard weekend!" On the Pats thats a failure.)
Winning it all (Better on the Giants because its "Special". On the Pats its "expected" and "No Days off" I mean come-on Coach we are at the Parade!)

So when you look at the possible outcomes almost all of them could be perceived as better anyplace other then New England.
 

TheoShmeo

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I have no problem with the Nate Solder story (if, indeed, it's true - bit of a game of telephone here). Dude put up with the roughest, most intense regime for sports that we can imagine, for 7 years. Frankly, I'm amazed more long-term Patriots don't burn out before they're cast aside. You'd think Hightower, McCourty et al would be candidates, and yet, here they are.
It’s true. The guy who spoke with him is a Pats fan and good friend who I watch several games with every season, has no reason to lie and recounted the entire discussion to me the day after it happened. It’s possible that I muffed something around the edges, but that’s the gist of what Solder said.

As to the comment another poster made about the money issue, I am equally skeptical. My friend felt he was saying that almost as a check the box disclaimer, and the import of the discussion was about his views of Bill and playing in NE.

While I’m here, he said Solder

- was very nice in general and very articulate

- played football catch with my friend’s son and initiated that

- said he would miss his friends on the Pats and definitely had some mixed emotions

- is obviously very family focused and was in that park frequently with his family

- was equally friendly with other of our mutual friends and equally giving of his time

- thinks the world of Brady
 

Super Nomario

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I have no problem with the Nate Solder story (if, indeed, it's true - bit of a game of telephone here). Dude put up with the roughest, most intense regime for sports that we can imagine, for 7 years. Frankly, I'm amazed more long-term Patriots don't burn out before they're cast aside. You'd think Hightower, McCourty et al would be candidates, and yet, here they are.
Seven years is a long time to spend with any boss, frankly. We are seeing players get sick of "player's coaches" in Seattle and Pittsburgh, arguably to an even greater degree than we see it in New England. I think it's a rare breed that can stay with a team for two full contracts, especially in NE, and the constant roster churn partly reflects a need to get in new blood who will be eager to work while moving on from players who might be getting sick of the program.
 

bakahump

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Well and to be fair, While Gronk and "No Life outside of football" seemingly does not compute. (Seemingly because despite all the extra curriculars Gronk always seems pretty dedicated in season).

Brady is just the opposite.
So he may indeed want to divorce Bill, But I doubt (or at least evidence doesnt support) that its because he doesnt dedicate his life to football during the season.

Dude eats leaves and is in bed at like 730 every night (Course maybe Giselle is there too so.....yeah.....)

Rather I suspect he may "want a divorce" he is not appreciated (enough?) for doing exactly what Bill is asking.
 

bankshot1

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Seems like Solder took a big leap of faith that with a new GM, a new head coach, an O-line that was falling apart, and a possible QB controversy, that the Giants would be a stress-free panacea.
 

Ed Hillel

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Solder and Butler have both had brutal starts to the season, fwiw. I know I’d be reluctant to pay big money to a Patriots player and put him into a relatively lax environment, because I’d be afraid after years of constant stress and work, they’d have a penchant to enjoy themselves a bit too much.

How many Pats have left in free agency for big if relatively significant money and ended up being worth it? Samuel? I’m sure I am missing more. (I don’t count trades because players are often in contract years, which serve as fine incentive to work.)
 

steveluck7

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Solder and Butler have both had brutal starts to the season, fwiw. I know I’d be reluctant to pay big money to a Patriots player and put him into a relatively lax environment, because I’d be afraid after years of constant stress and work, they’d have a penchant to enjoy themselves a bit too much.

How many Pats have left in free agency for big if relatively significant money and ended up being worth it? Samuel? I’m sure I am missing more. (I don’t count trades because players are often in contract years, which serve as fine incentive to work.)
If i were a GM, i'd be less worried about that and more concerned with the "whole is greater than the sum of the parts" aspect to it. These guys played on a successful team, and they played well but very few of them are "worth" the contracts they get on the FA market.
 

Salem's Lot

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As soon as someone leaves money on the table to go somewhere else I’ll believe that the culture is too strict for a lot of guys. At the end of the day it usually comes down to money as the reason that people leave the Patriots. All the other stuff is window dressing.
 

moondog80

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How many Pats have left in free agency for big if relatively significant money and ended up being worth it? Samuel? I’m sure I am missing more. (I don’t count trades because players are often in contract years, which serve as fine incentive to work.)
Welker? Vinatieri? Talib? But yes, the list is not long. Not sure if that’s because the Pats guess right or because NFL free agency is a disaster in general.
 

lexrageorge

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It’s true. The guy who spoke with him is a Pats fan and good friend who I watch several games with every season, has no reason to lie and recounted the entire discussion to me the day after it happened. It’s possible that I muffed something around the edges, but that’s the gist of what Solder said.

As to the comment another poster made about the money issue, I am equally skeptical. My friend felt he was saying that almost as a check the box disclaimer, and the import of the discussion was about his views of Bill and playing in NE.

While I’m here, he said Solder

- was very nice in general and very articulate

- played football catch with my friend’s son and initiated that

- said he would miss his friends on the Pats and definitely had some mixed emotions

- is obviously very family focused and was in that park frequently with his family

- was equally friendly with other of our mutual friends and equally giving of his time

- thinks the world of Brady
FWIW, I don't doubt your friend at all. I can believe Solder wanted a different environment, probably for many reasons that were subjective rather than objective. Which is OK. But given that this was his first, last, and only opportunity at a big payday, and given the likely gap between what he was going to get from the Pats to what he did get from the Giants (probably $10-$15M in guaranteed coin if not more), then it seems as likely that money was reason 1A for his decision. And I'm perfectly OK with that.

Solder and Butler have both had brutal starts to the season, fwiw. I know I’d be reluctant to pay big money to a Patriots player and put him into a relatively lax environment, because I’d be afraid after years of constant stress and work, they’d have a penchant to enjoy themselves a bit too much.

How many Pats have left in free agency for big if relatively significant money and ended up being worth it? Samuel? I’m sure I am missing more. (I don’t count trades because players are often in contract years, which serve as fine incentive to work.)
Ben Watson is one that has had a productive career worthy of his salary, one that is still going on and so far appears to still be quite productive. We just tend to forget about him for obvious reasons.

Seems like Solder took a big leap of faith that with a new GM, a new head coach, an O-line that was falling apart, and a possible QB controversy, that the Giants would be a stress-free panacea.
This post reminds me why I get a good laugh whenever a random poster calls out Belichick for being a below average GM.
 
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Ralphwiggum

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As soon as someone leaves money on the table to go somewhere else I’ll believe that the culture is too strict for a lot of guys. At the end of the day it usually comes down to money as the reason that people leave the Patriots. All the other stuff is window dressing.
This. Solder can say whatever he wants and maybe he even believes it, but the Pats were not going to come close to matching the money the Giants gave him so it is hard to say he didn't leave over money. The other things are nice and may be factors as well, but as far as I can remember they've never lost a guy who they were willing to pay.
 

joe dokes

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As soon as someone leaves money on the table to go somewhere else I’ll believe that the culture is too strict for a lot of guys. At the end of the day it usually comes down to money as the reason that people leave the Patriots. All the other stuff is window dressing.
I'm sure this played a role. But I'll give Theo's friend a pass for not exploring that particular issue in a playground conversation. At the same time, if Solder were asked in a more formal setting, I think he would freely admit to the $$$$$ guarantee as being a large part.
 

bankshot1

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This post reminds me why I get a good laugh whenever a random poster calls out Belichick for being a below average GM.
My TIC post was more reflective of the tangible benefits of $35 million guaranteed to Solder than either a stress free work environment or BB's strengths or weaknesses as a GM.
 

lexrageorge

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My TIC post was more reflective of the tangible benefits of $35 million guaranteed to Solder than either a stress free work environment or BB's strengths or weaknesses as a GM.
Understood. I was just making an OT point that the Giants, an organization that everyone thinks is well run, are having some on-field difficulties right now, after enduring a whole lot of difficulties last season. Which should be an example of why the current GM of the Pats really isn't so bad. Again, off topic from this thread, so I'll leave it alone.
 

DJnVa

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Welker? Vinatieri? Talib? But yes, the list is not long. Not sure if that’s because the Pats guess right or because NFL free agency is a disaster in general.
Not sure Welker was worth it--he had 73 catches, then 49, for about 1200 total yards.
 

TheoShmeo

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I'm sure this played a role. But I'll give Theo's friend a pass for not exploring that particular issue in a playground conversation. At the same time, if Solder were asked in a more formal setting, I think he would freely admit to the $$$$$ guarantee as being a large part.
Right. While I can’t believe many people would have cross examined Solder in that context, that friend is particularly not given to confrontation.

My guess — and not from any more knowledge than anyone else here has — is that Solder would have left for the Giants if the money was equal for the reasons he mentioned.

Said differently, even if we assume that money was the driver, I think it’s also true that the Pats/Bill stuff also really mattered to him. Otherwise, why discuss it with a Pats fan you meet in a park? Just to give yourself a way to say it wasn’t money? I mean, maybe, but would it sound so bad to tell someone that “it was $35 mm guaranteed and I am now set for life, and that was my last big pay day”? That plays very well to my ears. Not in a TV sound bite but to a regular guy? Seems perfectly fair to me.

Again, I’m sure money was huge and almost certainly the biggest thing. But I don’t discount the other stuff as mattering. My friend did say that Solder was quite animated about it.
 

Smiling Joe Hesketh

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Right. While I can’t believe many people would have cross examined Solder in that context, that friend is particularly not given to confrontation.

My guess — and not from any more knowledge than anyone else here has — is that Solder would have left for the Giants if the money was equal for the reasons he mentioned.

Said differently, even if we assume that money was the driver, I think it’s also true that the Pats/Bill stuff also really mattered to him. Otherwise, why discuss it with a Pats fan you meet in a park? Just to give yourself a way to say it wasn’t money? I mean, maybe, but would it sound so bad to tell someone that “it was $35 mm guaranteed and I am now set for life, and that was my last big pay day”? That plays very well to my ears. Not in a TV sound bite but to a regular guy? Seems perfectly fair to me.

Again, I’m sure money was huge and almost certainly the biggest thing. But I don’t discount the other stuff as mattering. My friend did say that Solder was quite animated about it.
And I believe him, and Solder. It's good for Nate that the money wasn't anywhere near equal; made his decision much easier, I bet. And players should always take the money, this is a brutal game. I'm merely thinking that Nate's take may be only his own.
 
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