Brady is back….back again

Dotrat

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I don't understand this at all. How often do you actually hear Brady talk about any of this stuff? I've never seen the actual concussion water, but that happened in what, 2015? Other people bring up the diet (which isn't that peculiar for highly-trained athletes) and self-help stuff. He's as bland now as he was in NE, with some occasional glimpses of being an actual human (avocado tequila and trophy tosses should be celebrated).

It sounds more like you're tired of the media around him, which is easy to avoid. But watching him play is still pretty incredible, and a treat imho. We're witnessing one of the greatest sporting careers ever, I don't get why people are so intent on wishing it to end. The guy has brought Pats fans an immeasurable amount of joy; let the guy finish on his own terms.
I'd submit that Brady did not look like he enjoyed playing football this year, at least not in the half a dozen or so games I saw. So I'm wishing for it to end mostly because his public comments--and IMO demeanor--don't equate to a guy who loves his job. And one of the joys of watching him over the years--including his first year with the Bucs--was seeing not only the GOAT's career take shape but also the joy of watching a great player who loved playing. So regardless of age or ability (he's clearly still good, often very good), he simply doesn't look the same. And I'm petty enough (even in middle age) for the shenanigans with Miami to bother me.
 

Van Everyman

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The ageism in this thread is astounding.
Is this humor?
And Brady goes on to take a shot at the NFLPA. I guess he wants the NFLPA to come out more strongly against fining players for plays that could injure another union member. okay
I’m inclined to give him a pass here, because I suspect that Brady’s relationship with the NFLPA is more complicated post-Deflategate than we could possibly know.
 

FL4WL3SS

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Is this humor?
I just turned 40, I'm very sensitive right now ;)

However, take age out of it and tell me why he should retire? He's still a top 10 QB in the league.

I can't stand TB since he left NE. He's dead to me until he retires, so the sooner that happens, the better for me. I just don't see the argument why he should now. He should play until no team wants him anymore, just like any other player.
 

Al Zarilla

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Oh that’s corny. He’s definitely no Chris Everett with that pathetic swing.
I remember Everett's Rams getting to the NFC Championship game against the 49ers after the 1989 season. I was watching the local Bay Area news the night before and on the sports segment, they were going on about how good the Rams were and how they could give the 49ers all they wanted. Everett, blah blah. It got back to the show's anchor, a woman, and she said I'm sure the Rams and their quarterback are very good, but they don't have Joe Montana, so they have no chance. Plain and simple, the end. Never forgot her going out on a limb, albeit a short limb, like that. 30-3 49ers.
 

wilked

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John Elway is a perfect NFL example, went out on top into hero-ville toward the sunset.
I think Lanny McDonald is a great Hollywood ending, made his 500th goal and a few weeks later won his first Cup. (Ray Borque also retired after winning his first cup, although with the wrong team)

Now to think of the NBA and MLB storybook endings. I think you want at minimum hall of fame and probably a top 100 ever player in their respective sport.

NBA - Maybe David Robinson or Bill Russell. Both were definitely on the decline their final seasons and both went out a champ, smartly retiring on top. I give the lean to Robinson here as it was only his second trophy so a bit more 'Hollywood' ending.

MLB - Dimaggio?
 

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MLB - Dimaggio?
Right call by something as basic (if flawed) as bWAR: Joltin' Joe at 2.9 has the highest bWAR in a player's final season by a HOFer that also won the WS that same year.

I'm not too much a believer in Mac, he has too many processing flaws to make the jump, personally. I'd be willing to look past that if it wasn't what made him so good in the SEC in 2020. Because if you don't even offer the strengths that you were sold on, what do you have? So I'd yes to a would-be reunion in a heartbeat, assuming TB12 says so too. Brady won't have much longer, it would wrap up likely nicely at this point with the timeline of BB as well. Is it pie in the sky? Of course. I don't think it happens.
 

rodderick

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Seems like the impact of the "Hollywood ending" in how a player's career is viewed fades with time. I'm sure in 2000 people got emotional over Elway retiring after lifting the Lombardi and his legacy was enhanced for a few years after the fact, but now do you immediately think of that when assessing him as a player or do you gravitate more towards what he did when the Broncos had a shit roster that he dragged deep into the playoffs and to Super Bowls year after year? Same with Peyton, in a weird way his 2015 is kind of sad in retrospect.

Now, I'm sure Brady going to Tampa, immediately winning a Super Bowl without Bill while throwing for 50 TDs including playoffs and peacing out would be a different story, but still, seems like the fairytale retirement is kinda overrated.
 

Ed Hillel

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Brady could have been MVP last year, there's no reason anyone should ever retire if they want to keep playing and can do so at that level. Well, there are probably some reasons, but you know what I mean.
 

8slim

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There’s something not right with Tom Brady at this point in his career. I have no idea if this is the guy he has always been or he’s evolved into this.

Maybe he used to have handlers who ran interference and now those people are gone? Maybe it’s too many blows to the head.

The guy we saw in New England doesn’t get angry at that question. He certainly doesn’t answer it. He probably chuckles and says some non answer like “I’m really enjoying watching the playoffs, spending time with my kids, and doing conditioning” or something.

I really don’t know. Maybe we never really knew him here. He just seems off.
He gets progressively weirder every year. I get it, he went from being a football player to a Global Icon. And he compounded it by marrying Giselle and going full "celebrity". Hard to not get weird under those circumstances.

I've noticed that he swears a lot now. I don't recall that being his thing years ago. But in Tom vs. Time he was dropping a lot of obscenities, and some of that struck me as performative ("I'm a relatable, regular guy like you! I say fuck!"). That bit with Gray seemed straight out of that playbook.
 

The Talented Allen Ripley

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Ryan Dempster.

Hours after the Boston Red Sox had clinched their third World Series title in the last decade with a victory in Game 6, pitcher Ryan Dempster was at Fenway Park throwing batting practice.

Bob Nightengale of USA Today witnessed it as well:

It was a crazy night in Boston, and the Red Sox were able to celebrate in their own crazy way. This team had fun all year, and it resulted in a championship. While most players probably went out on the town to celebrate, Dempster took the opportunity to stay at Fenway Park as long as he could.

The 36-year-old finally won his first ring, and he celebrated by throwing batting practice to his friends and family late into the night.


He retired afterwards.
 

Deathofthebambino

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I think Tom Brady left here after 2019, because he knew he couldn't win here. He knew he had nothing to work with on offense, and he knew if the Pats paid him the under valued 25mil he'd ask for, they'd have even less around him.

There's no chance he's coming back here for 25mil, so he can throw to the likes of Hunter Henry, Davante Parker and Jonnu Smith and get his 46 year old self mauled behind that offensive line.
 

Deathofthebambino

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He gets progressively weirder every year. I get it, he went from being a football player to a Global Icon. And he compounded it by marrying Giselle and going full "celebrity". Hard to not get weird under those circumstances.

I've noticed that he swears a lot now. I don't recall that being his thing years ago. But in Tom vs. Time he was dropping a lot of obscenities, and some of that struck me as performative ("I'm a relatable, regular guy like you! I say fuck!"). That bit with Gray seemed straight out of that playbook.
He has always sworn like a drunken sailor:

https://www.bostonmagazine.com/news/2015/01/15/fascinated-tom-bradys-potty-mouth/

https://www.nfl.com/news/wes-welker-amused-by-tom-brady-s-potty-mouth-0ap1000000068650

I mean, "LFG" is basically synonymous with Brady's rallying cry, no?
 

Deathofthebambino

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I never saw him do it so much in TV interviews and documentaries, though.
Well, in fairness, he didn't do as many interviews where he could swear (or any documentaries). You aren't allowed to swear on broadcast television or on EEI, etc. The days of podcasts or satellite radio Howard Stern interviews are a bit recent, but Tom has been known to swear like a crazy person on the field his entire career, and most guys don't turn that on and off from the field to their private life.

FTR, I love swearing. It adds character and builds character for the recipient. At least, that's what my father told me.
 

Van Everyman

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I think we can agree that Brady has been doing a lot of things since he left town he never did here.

I 100% don't think he should retire just because he's old. I still don't see how he's any different than the guy we had in 2018/2019 -- he needs *something* around him. Every time he has that, he's awesome again. I suspect that's the fundamental tension going on with him right now -- "I can still play at an elite level -- the hard part is getting the whole team around me to be good enough. Is it worth it?"
 

Ed Hillel

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There's no chance he's coming back here for 25mil, so he can throw to the likes of Hunter Henry, Davante Parker and Jonnu Smith and get his 46 year old self mauled behind that offensive line.
What are the options? People keep saying Vegas, and that makes a lot of sense from a standpoint of him personally being the most successful, but is that defense going to take them anywhere? I don't think San Fran is gonna happen, they have way too much young QB talent there to risk bringing on Brady imo. I have been saying Miami forever, but I must admit I did that blindly from a salary cap perspective, and it turns out they are in salary cap hell. I think the 3 most realistic options I see are:

Raiders/Jets/Patriots/maybe the Giants?

The Jets actually make a ton of sense, though actually their cap space is an issue at this point, as well. They are currently sitting 3 million over the cap, though they can realistically open up 20-30 million, but it might hurt the product.
 
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FL4WL3SS

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Brady is not going to be able to hand pick his team, at this point he's going to have to make concessions and settle for the "not perfect" situation. He might have 3 options and he'll have to decide which gives him the best chance to win and who he'll work best with.
 

Deathofthebambino

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What are the options? People keep saying Vegas, and that makes a lot of sense from a standpoint of him personally being the most successful, but is that defense going to take them anywhere? I don't think San Fran is gonna happen, they have way too much young QB talent there to risk bringing on Brady imo. I have been saying Miami forever, but I must admit I did that blindly from a salary cap perspective, and it turns out they are in salary cap hell. I think the 3 most realistic options I see are:

Raiders/Jets/Patriots/maybe the Giants?

The Jets actually make a ton of sense, unfortinately, and they can afford him.
I think it's the Raiders if it's anyone. Miami if Tua doesn't come back (they'll figure out a way under the cap to make it work), but I think he's coming back.

Other than that, I think Tom probably retires. If he goes to the Jets, I'll rip my hair out.

With respect to the Raiders, their defense was bad, but remember, they lost almost all close games this year, to pretty good teams. Those losses were against Chargers (5 Points), Cardinals (OT, with Kyler Murray, 6 points), Titans (Tannehill, by 2 points), Chiefs (1 point), Jags (7 points), Colts (5 points), Rams (1 point), Steelers (3 points), Niners (3 points). They were really only blown out by the Saints in just a terrible performance, and the final game of the season against the Chiefs with Stidham.

They were in close games all season long, so an upgrade at QB, a few changes on defense, a healthy Darren Waller and I could see them turning it all around with a guy like Brady and his leadership in that locker room.
 

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See I think there is talent in NE and if they can semi-fix the line (and let's be honest, Brady is a semi-fix on his own), there is some offensive talent to exploit.
 

Al Zarilla

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John Elway is a perfect NFL example, went out on top into hero-ville toward the sunset.
I think Lanny McDonald is a great Hollywood ending, made his 500th goal and a few weeks later won his first Cup. (Ray Borque also retired after winning his first cup, although with the wrong team)

Now to think of the NBA and MLB storybook endings. I think you want at minimum hall of fame and probably a top 100 ever player in their respective sport.

NBA - Maybe David Robinson or Bill Russell. Both were definitely on the decline their final seasons and both went out a champ, smartly retiring on top. I give the lean to Robinson here as it was only his second trophy so a bit more 'Hollywood' ending.

MLB - Dimaggio?
DiMaggio had a very painful heel problem his last year that the doctors couldn't do much with, apparently. Sounds similar to David Ortiz' problems with his feet, that made him hang it up even though he put up a sensational 2016 season.
 

BaseballJones

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See I think there is talent in NE and if they can semi-fix the line (and let's be honest, Brady is a semi-fix on his own), there is some offensive talent to exploit.
I mean, if this roster, with BOB as OC and an improved offensive line, had Brady as QB, there's no question in my mind would be a top-10 offense in this league. Maybe lacking elite explosive playmakers keeps it from being a top-5 offense, but they'd be able to run the ball, and Brady certainly has been able to put up yards and points with lesser talent around him.
 

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I mean, if this roster, with BOB as OC and an improved offensive line, had Brady as QB, there's no question in my mind would be a top-10 offense in this league. Maybe lacking elite explosive playmakers keeps it from being a top-5 offense, but they'd be able to run the ball, and Brady certainly has been able to put up yards and points with lesser talent around him.
And top 10 offense plus top 5 D = contender.
 

Granite Sox

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I think he’s going to go to the suckiest division with glaring QB needs. He wants to almost guarantee winning and playoffs at this point.

Ergo, imo, AFC South, NFC South, NFC West. I don’t think he’ll wind up in Vegas due to the competition in the division (KC, LAC).

Tennessee, NO/Carolina/Atlanta, 49ers. I think anywhere else would be too steep a climb for him between new teammates and relative competition.
 

Marciano490

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I think he’s too competitive and savvy to just LeBron it from team to team. Moving in the division would look weak and mercenary.
 

DennyDoyle'sBoil

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Not a star, but for going out on top, how about Bobby Kielty? He saw exactly one pitch in his World Series career, which was also the last pitch of his baseball career. He retired slashing a lifetime 1.000/1.000/4.000 in the World Series, with the Game Winning, and Championship Winning RBI.
 

lexrageorge

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I'm really stuck on the fact that people think he'll have any choice he wants on teams. It takes interest from the team as well. I just don't see all of those teams wanting him.
There are enough teams that will soon be shopping for a QB and could show interest in Brady:

Jets for obvious reasons
Dolphins, although cap issues could be challenging
Vegas, as McDaniels would lobby hard for TB12
Titans seem ready to move on from Tannehill, and Vrabel would likely be in favor.
Giants may lose Daniel Jones, and are be good enough to be enticing.
Ravens likely to lose Lamar, but seems like a strange fit. But calls to Brady's agent are free.
Indy is too much of a mess for Brady
Commanders probably move on from Heinicke, but doubt the call gets returned.
NFC South teams are likely out of the picture for various reasons
Ultra extreme long shot team is the Rams if Stafford is forced to retire. But they would have to do some serious cleansing of the books capwise.
 

InstaFace

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I can't stand TB since he left NE. He's dead to me until he retires, so the sooner that happens, the better for me.
THERE it is. I knew I'd eventually come across one. The one Patriots fan who decided that Tom Brady could kiss his ass the minute he took off the laundry. Such fans had been rumored to exist, and rival teams' fans loved to posit their existence in order to rag on Patriots fans as ungrateful, but to date, such creatures had remained unseen - the Chupacabra of Pats fandom.
 

Marciano490

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Not a star, but for going out on top, how about Bobby Kielty? He saw exactly one pitch in his World Series career, which was also the last pitch of his baseball career. He retired slashing a lifetime 1.000/1.000/4.000 in the World Series, with the Game Winning, and Championship Winning RBI.
If we’re doing Bobby Kielty we gotta be honest with ourselves and say David Tyree. Ahhh the trauma the trauma.
 

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If we’re doing Bobby Kielty we gotta be honest with ourselves and say David Tyree. Ahhh the trauma the trauma.
That game had his final catch, not his overall final game. Actually caught on with Baltimore's special teams later in 2009, with his final game a loss to Peyton's Colts. His final win was that godawful game the week prior at the Blade.

I'm actually proposing a really recent modern example, Andrew Whitworth. Not quite Munoz but at worst a top 5 LT all-time. He went out on top after his Rams beat his old Bengals. 5th oldest player to win a SB, and also currently the second oldest (Mike Horan, punter of the 1999 GSoT Rams) to win one in his last game. Lomas Brown deserves similar recognition, also a great LT. He stopped after SB 37, but you likely recognize him more for his blocking for Barry Sanders.
 

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THERE it is. I knew I'd eventually come across one. The one Patriots fan who decided that Tom Brady could kiss his ass the minute he took off the laundry. Such fans had been rumored to exist, and rival teams' fans loved to posit their existence in order to rag on Patriots fans as ungrateful, but to date, such creatures had remained unseen - the Chupacabra of Pats fandom.
Without a doubt. I've been saying it since the day he left. I'm the jilted lover for sure. I have no problem with it.

Is this where you teach me how to be a sports fan?

Edit: and I want to be clear, it's not that he played for another team, it's the WAY he left. The courting of Gronk, the stupid commercials taking a dig at NE, etc etc. He chose to leave and I choose to root against him until he returns or retires. Just how the cookie crumbles
 

InstaFace

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Nah you're entitled to feel how you feel. The customer is always right in matters of taste.

It's just a point of view that I'd heard rumors about existing, but which none of the >100 people I've talked to about it in the last 3 years have actually held themselves. But I thought, like Bigfoot, that it must be out there somewhere.
 

Ralphwiggum

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THERE it is. I knew I'd eventually come across one. The one Patriots fan who decided that Tom Brady could kiss his ass the minute he took off the laundry. Such fans had been rumored to exist, and rival teams' fans loved to posit their existence in order to rag on Patriots fans as ungrateful, but to date, such creatures had remained unseen - the Chupacabra of Pats fandom.
You obviously haven't spent much time in BBTL since Brady left. There have been Brady threads and Brady polls more Brady threads and more Brady polls and we have people who fall into three basic categories: 1. Those who still root for Brady against any non-Patriots team (this is where I am), 2. those who are ambivalent about him and/or are pretty much ignoring him since he left, and 3. those who are rooting against him. If memory serves category 3 is the smallest group, but they have been here and haven't been hard to find since he left.
 

tims4wins

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Personally, at first I was anti-Brady, all the way through his first couple playoff games. Then of course I rooted for him to take down Mahomes in the 2020 Super Bowl. Since then I've mostly been ambivalent.
 

BigSoxFan

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I’m not bitter about Brady’s departure, I’m just ready to move on and already have. Still follow him quite a bit but that era is simply over. Time for the next gen Pats to find their way.
 

InstaFace

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You obviously haven't spent much time in BBTL since Brady left. There have been Brady threads and Brady polls more Brady threads and more Brady polls and we have people who fall into three basic categories: 1. Those who still root for Brady against any non-Patriots team (this is where I am), 2. those who are ambivalent about him and/or are pretty much ignoring him since he left, and 3. those who are rooting against him. If memory serves category 3 is the smallest group, but they have been here and haven't been hard to find since he left.
I'm not a top-20 regular here, but I've read my share. And yes, agreed, there's a big difference between "he's gone, he's not on my team, so I don't care - he's just another player in the league", vs "Fuck him, I hope he loses every game". The former is a totally reasonable thing to feel, but the latter is grist for stereotyping and insulting the Pats' fanbase as spoiled and ungrateful, and I thought it was a chimera. I guess there are at least two here.

Per your insistence, I went back and looked through the last 15 pages of threads, and found only two polls that were even tangentially on the subject, both of them right around the time Brady left in March 2020.

The Sting 2020: asked the extent to which people here could root for the Bucs in 2020. Didn't really get at the question of "I don't care" vs "fuck him". Almost nobody in 70 posts expressed an active dislike; Oppo in post #30 said "I will be rooting for the Bucs to go 0-16 and the Pats to go 16-0", and then elaborated in #62, but that was it for the actively-rooting-against crowd.

And then The Decision 2020, a poll from Dec 2019 about how people would feel if Brady did leave. There weren't options for "will root against him", and the poll and discussion were mostly about a potential future for him on the Pats, rather than on how they'd feel if he left.

There was Gone Brady Gone, a lengthy non-poll reaction thread to the Brady departure decision. Those rooting for him to fail were this guy, @drbretto was initlally jilted (and elaborated / doubled down, and got a raft of shit for it, including from you) but may have come around to neutral, and... that's it, at least for the first 5 pages. Everyone else was in varying stages of shock, but those with composure wished him well.

So if there've been threads-upon-threads taking BBTL's temperature on Tom Brady since his departure, you're gonna have to link me to them, because I feel like I put in a good-faith effort here to hunt - and I found exactly 1 lurker who was rooting against him as of a month after his departure.
 

drbretto

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Yeah just to update on that, I was literally just being a baby because I didn't think he would leave, and within like a day I loved the man again and have followed more TB than NE ever since.