It's toxic masculinity.
To add more detail: Guys are supposed to act a certain way and when they don't, they lack passion or are always passive and indecisive. Stevens should grunt more, yell more. Get more worked up etc. The JD Drew effect.
Brad Stevens: President of Basketball Ops
- Thread starter RedOctober3829
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To add more detail: Guys are supposed to act a certain way and when they don't, they lack passion or are always passive and indecisive. Stevens should grunt more, yell more. Get more worked up etc. The JD Drew effect.
It wouldn’t surprise me. How many coaches get promoted upward in both stature and pay only, are successful in that role only to return to the bench? Brad will coach again if he fails in this role.....otherwise why would he willingly take a step down in the org chart?
Simply put, because I think he really enjoys coaching and will get the itch again at some point but is likely burned out. Maybe he is starting another Ainge-like tenure. I doubt it but we’ll see.
In any event, he’s a really smart guy so genuinely curious about seeing how this plays out.
All I know is Brad has way more control than I do. If I knew that was my last game coaching yesterday, and I saw what those refs were doing, I'd have gone out in a massive blaze of glory.
It's easier with 20/20, but after messing up 1999, he was in deep crap. With Miller in the fold and no Vitaly, I would've expected a little bit better performance in 1999, so mid-teens, drafting a guy like Turkoglu would've been less risky, and likely worked out in the long run.
I will admit though, those late 90s and early 2000s classes are shockingly bad.
Impossible to say without knowing if Stevens is good at this or what coach he picks.
On the other hand... If Zarren is willing to stay, I think he's great in his role and a new coach could bring benefits in terms of energy if they choose wisely.
You have to presume that mild-mannered Brad liked and/or respected Danny Ainge and he just Little Finger'd him to the unemployment line.
Trading Billups wasn't the problem, he was basically injured/ineffective for years. He didn't even start to pan out until his third team/5th season. It was on Detroit in year 6 of his NBA career where he became a solid/good player. I'd argue that passing over Tracy McGrady twice was a much bigger problem than drafting Mercer or trading Chauncey. The Billups trade wasn't even terrible as Kenny Anderson was pretty good for them (and Billups wouldn't have been).
Even the Mercer selection could have worked out as Pitino made a pretty good deal when he moved him to Denver for Danny Fortson and a future first. Unfortunately Chris Wallace just had to use that #1 in 2001 to select Kedrick Brown (a mistake he compounded when he elected to maintain a death grip on Brown in the Rogers/Delk trade, sending the Suns Joe Johnson rather than Brown/Forte). Had he waited one more year Boston could have selected Caron Butler or Amar'e. Two more years and they could have added Bosh to Pierce.
What really made the whole thing a killer was that they later moved Fortson for a 2001 #1. They'd promised to use the pick to two different players, thinking that only one of the would be available. As it turned out they both were, but Wallace used the pick on Joe Forte anyway (and then blamed Red after hearing the boos). But Tony Parker would have looked good in Celtics Green, as would Agent Zero (Arenas playing the 1 spot for Jim O'Brien would have been insane fun).
Also, you forgot the worst part about the Potapenko trade, the pick was unprotected (at a time when teams had just started protecting picks) and when he was asked about it during the presser the Ricktator said something along the lines of "We're going to be in the playoffs, not the lottery". Also, while the Cavs got Dre' Miller out of it, Shawn Marion was on the board at the time, and being able to slot him in between Walker and Pierce would have given the O'Brien teams a real shot.
Starting to listen to Ryen Russillo's emergency Celtics podcast with Jackie Mac, KOC, and Simmons.
Reacting to the changes
Jackie Mac: The bubble took a major toll on Stevens and was burnt out as a coach. It's a gamble for Stevens because of no experience.
Simmons: Add in previous 2 seasons with Kyrie and he was totally burnt out. I was surprised at this move even though we thought the Celtics organization won't look the same coming into the year.
KOC: I did not hear anything about Stevens taking over this role but knew about Ainge possibly leaving for weeks now. There's a lot of work to be done and a lot of tough decisions to be made in the coming months.
RR: No one wanted to fire Danny Ainge. I heard he wants to continue to work in the NBA and the Utah rumor makes sense. He wants Austin to eventually take over an organization and it wasn't going to happen here.
KOC: There's interest in Danny in Utah and in Portland but no guarantees he gets another job quickly.
Jackie: I hope he retires because of the health issues. His doctor told him last year not to go to the bubble.
Reacting to the changes
Jackie Mac: The bubble took a major toll on Stevens and was burnt out as a coach. It's a gamble for Stevens because of no experience.
Simmons: Add in previous 2 seasons with Kyrie and he was totally burnt out. I was surprised at this move even though we thought the Celtics organization won't look the same coming into the year.
KOC: I did not hear anything about Stevens taking over this role but knew about Ainge possibly leaving for weeks now. There's a lot of work to be done and a lot of tough decisions to be made in the coming months.
RR: No one wanted to fire Danny Ainge. I heard he wants to continue to work in the NBA and the Utah rumor makes sense. He wants Austin to eventually take over an organization and it wasn't going to happen here.
KOC: There's interest in Danny in Utah and in Portland but no guarantees he gets another job quickly.
Jackie: I hope he retires because of the health issues. His doctor told him last year not to go to the bubble.
“The sleeper name to watch here is Ohio State’s Chris Holtmann. He was the head coach at Butler from 2014-17 and developed a relationship with Stevens.”
View: https://twitter.com/TheAthleticNBA/status/1400160894701744134
View: https://twitter.com/TheAthleticNBA/status/1400160894701744134
Maybe they should have waited till after the press conference for a podcast to talk about Danny pursuing Utah and Portland (??) and Austin Ainge taking over eventually(??)
The next HC almost certainly needs to have the buy in of Tatum and Brown. My guess is that their links/preferences will be far more important to the process than Stevens' relationships - so my sense is the media should be sniffing around them rather than in Stevens past for clues.
This is appearing more and more like the worst camouflage ever.
“Ainge is retiring but he’s looking for the same job in a different organization.”
I dunno.....where I’m from it sounds an awful lot like the PC way of firing him.
“Ainge is retiring but he’s looking for the same job in a different organization.”
I dunno.....where I’m from it sounds an awful lot like the PC way of firing him.
Agree, this feels like bs. Which makes me feel better--it would mean ownership was willing to make a hard but probably necessary decision in order to maximize the next 3 years of Tatum+Brown.
Also these supported insiders had no inkling that any move of this sort was going to happen. As always, no one knows anything.
There is a lot of wild stuff in this thread, but this is the absolute craziest.
This was such a good listen. Simmons low-key created a great Boston media outlet in addition to the national guys under the Ringer.
I'm very much in the "wait and see" before assuming that Ainge is pursuing other NBA jobs. The fact remains that Ainge is 62 and has had some serious health issues. He's also rather intense; he was as a player and coach, and during his announcing gig we can assume he's intense as a GM as well. He may just have needed to step down.
I think Ainge one time was quoted on the misinformation that comes from agents and NBA front offices and gets channeled to the media.
I think it's probably both true that Ainge decided he was done here, and that other teams have felt around. He's one of the most successful GMs in the league, teams are gonna be interested, and being burned out in BOS doesn't mean he won't be back in a year or two somewhere else.
You're right, it was a terrible draft class.
https://www.basketball-reference.com/draft/NBA_2000.html
I guess it depends on what sources you believe. I’ve only seen Russillo and Chris Mannix talk about him going to a different job. Someone else reported a “0% chance” he works for another NBA team.
No one knows as of now. The next few months will be telling.
Also, Russillo talking about Austin going with him makes me question the legitimacy of his scoop since Austin was name checked by Brad in the PC today as staying with the organization
If it’s Utah, he’s not getting the same job in a different organization. They’re pretty set in both VP Basketball and GM roles…and with guys who aren’t anywhere near retirement. Think more some vague “Senior Advisor” position than an actual everyday “job”.
Yikes. Outside of Kenyon at #1, Michael Redd at #43 might have been the best player in that draft. Mike Miller, Jamal Crawford, Hedo, Q Richardson. . . . I mean, there was NOTHING in that draft. Eddie House, or course, gets honorable mention. . . . . .
Important to note that he's not reporting anything, this is purely conjecture around a hypothetical trade-for-superstar type deal. The consensus from the rest of the pod is that he's not someone they send out due to what he means to the team, city, and that he's not yet at his peak.
Then that was an extraordinarily chummy press conference whose participants included a Celtic legend who'd just been axed.
Also worth noting: KOC was happy on another podcast to chime in and say he too had heard Tristan Thompson was a locker room cancer (or something similar).
To give you some idea of how great LeBron is, look at his draft class...
https://www.basketball-reference.com/draft/NBA_2003.html
Tons of good, solid NBA players in that draft. And aside from LeBron, three HOFers taken #3, #4, and #5 (Carmelo, Bosh, Wade).
Now look at their win shares:
Carmelo - 104.9
Bosh - 106.0
Wade - 120.7
- - - - - -
LeBron - 242.0
And their VORP:
Carmelo - 35.8
Bosh - 31.1
Wade - 62.8
- - - - - -
LeBron - 137.3
Holy crap.
https://www.basketball-reference.com/draft/NBA_2003.html
Tons of good, solid NBA players in that draft. And aside from LeBron, three HOFers taken #3, #4, and #5 (Carmelo, Bosh, Wade).
Now look at their win shares:
Carmelo - 104.9
Bosh - 106.0
Wade - 120.7
- - - - - -
LeBron - 242.0
And their VORP:
Carmelo - 35.8
Bosh - 31.1
Wade - 62.8
- - - - - -
LeBron - 137.3
Holy crap.
Explain why.
I’m not even saying I think that’s what happened, but he’s due a ton of money and they maybe still value him as a prominent member of the organization, just not as coach.
From the press conference I got more of a “good soldier” vibe from Brad. He’s interested in the challenge and will give it his all, but I’m not sure he exactly demanded his new role.
Of course there is no way to know right now, that’s sort of the point.
If you could wake up to of those scenarios this morning with all of the future uncertainty still involved, which would you prefer?
Probably the one that happened.
I was happy for Brad to be coach, and Zarren as GM, but I think Brad could be a good fit at GM, and coaches outside of a few generally have shelf life issues, plus it sounds like Zarren is happy to stay in his current role which is a bonus.
Of course if they hire Jason Kidd I retract all of this.
A friend tells me it is also what Felger is yammering about on today's show so on that basis I assume it is just a fun take to bat around?
But I also don't think (or maybe it's "I hope") the ownership group would not waste years of prime Tatum and Brown because they wanted to save the $25ish million dollars owed to Stevens.
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Only 5 players in that entire draft have more career VORP than Tatum has already. Yikes.
Ainge said on NBCSN in an interview following the presser that he wasn’t gonna take the same job somewhere else, and that he thought it would be a bad idea to stay with the C’s in a lesser role. He sounded like a guy done with the big job to me, and on what basis would we doubt that?
Didn’t say he was reporting it. He was spitballing that if a superstar came available that you’d have to consider trading Brown.
I can see him on TV maybe after some down time. And man, I'd love to read a memoir.
Because thinking it's possible that they gave Stevens a five year extension less than a year ago to be the coach, and now thinking geez we'd like to get out of paying him this contract to be the coach so I guess we'll promote him, is next level crazy.
Your honor, I rest my case.
Maybe I'm all wrong, but I don't see this as a pseudo-firing of Ainge. I know we fans get all caught up in the drama, but if I were the owner of the Celtics I'd be incredibly happy with the job Ainge has done as GM for the past 18 years. The franchise has been remarkably competitive, year-in and year-out, while Danny has overhauled the roster numerous times. Sure, the past 24 months have been less than ideal in some respects, but I'm not convinced that would cause Wyc to force Ainge out.
Seems more like fortuitous timing, with Ainge being ready to call it a GM career at the same time Brad has had enough with NBA head coaching (for now, anyway).
Seems more like fortuitous timing, with Ainge being ready to call it a GM career at the same time Brad has had enough with NBA head coaching (for now, anyway).
That take was quickly refuted by both Kemba, who rarely Tweets (its still his most recent Tweet) and Jaylen Brown on the follow.
Frankly, if the C's can make it work for their larger plan, I think Thompson is a keeper given his experience as well as some of the comments he has made about leadership of late.