Boston’s taxing pursuit of Juan Soto is over. (Mets)

[Ragnar Danneskjöld]

There is a little bit of a winners curse the moment you sign a top tier FA.

They have to perform to break even or the market grows and the deals look cheap in a few years.

Time to make uncomfortable offers for Burnes/Fried.

I've given the ownership a pass until now on spending but the young core is ready and you've missed the playoffs 3 years in a row.

 

[Red(s)HawksFan]

The scary thing about the Mets is that they are Cohen's checkbook but also Stearns is a genius at piecing together quality cheap rosters behind them, whatever holes need to be filled.

The NL is crazy stacked now at the top, the best five teams in baseball next year might all be in the NL.

Yeah, they got to the NLCS last year while paying a big chunk of money to players on other teams (nearly $75M in dead money by end of season). A lot of that is down to Stearns plugging holes and hitting on reclamation/redemption projects like Luis Severino, Sean Manaea, and Jose freaking Iglesias. Now if we assume that Cohen is okay with them spending in excess of $300M a season again (where they've been the last three years), they've got lots of room to maneuver even after Soto. Honestly, I don't think they're out of the game for the top pitchers on the market. Cohen wants a ring.

 

[8slim]

Thats sort of the irony. Everybody needs a Soto, in one respect. But the Sox OF is in good shape.

I think everyone wants a Soto, but no one really needs a Soto. Teams win titles all the time without the best hitter in the game in their lineup.

They need to keep the impression that they are actually trying to be in the mix for the best talent while charging one of the most expensive tickets in baseball and $30/month for NESN.

I think the Sox played the "impression" game in the past couple of offseasons, but this specific situation was different. Offering $700 million to a player is more than just keeping up appearances, IMHO.

Honestly, I wish the Sox didn't pursue Soto. I never believed they were getting him, and it's fueled another round of "they weren't $eriouzzz!" griping.

The Sox offseason begins today. They have much more acute needs than Soto. If they fail to address them then I'll grab a pitchfork. But there's no harm in waiting 60 days to see.

 

[Myt1]

Perfectly fine not spending this amount of money for this player, and they should be assessed on a combination of the money that they do spend and the players that they do bring in vs. the value they could have gotten elsewhere. Recent history doesn’t make me optimistic, but we’ll see what happens.

 

[pdub]

I'm so glad that's over. Time to sign an ace and shore up the bullpen. Maybe swing a deal for Suzuki to replace O'Neil.

 

[Petagine in a Bottle]

All the talk this offseason has been about how aggressive the Sox are and how they are ready to spend; I don’t really care how much money they spend but now is the time to show that aggressiveness and address needs- action and results are needed. Looking forward to it.

 

[Philip Jeff Frye]

All the talk this offseason has been about how aggressive the Sox are and how they are ready to spend; I don’t really care how much money they spend but now is the time to show that aggressiveness and address needs- action and results are needed. Looking forward to it.

This is where I'm at. I wanted Soto but never thought we'd get him and at this price, that might be for the best. But if we end up with a bunch of short-term contracts for, just to say some names (no idea how likely any of these are), Michael Taylor, Alex Cobb and, apparently available because of the scumbag discount, Aroldis Champman, I'm not going to be happy.

 

[cantor44]

We can only guess at team revenues, but I’m willing to bet Cohen spends a higher share of revenue on player salaries than any other owner.

For me, Soto isn’t a question of spending. We’ll find out in time how much ownership is willing to spend — signing Soto wouldn’t have changed that number in the long run. The question is how large a fraction of that spend we want to see committed to a single player. I’m on the fence as to whether Soto would’ve been worth his share of the pie, so I’m neither pissed nor relieved that we missed out. On to the next bid.

Yes, I agree with you this - it's a relevant question: how large a fraction do you want to spend on one player? And with Soto's numbers, it entered a gray area.

Meanwhile, I'm responding to the fact that folks - and the media - keep saying, Cohen has deeper pockets, he is personally richer than John Henry. But that's not how it works, is it? Cohen and Henry are not writing checks from their personal checking accounts. They are authorizing the team to spend team revenues. If I'm understanding that correctly (and maybe I'm not?), then why does everyone continue to site Cohen's personal deep pockets?

 

[jon abbey]

Yes, I agree with you this - it's a relevant question regarding how large a fraction do you want to spend on one player. And with Soto's numbers, it entered a gray area.

Meanwhile, I'm responding to the fact that folks - and the media - keep saying, Cohen has deeper pockets, he is personally richer than John Henry. But that's not how it works, is it? Cohen and Henry are not writing checks from their personal checking accounts. They are authorizing the team to spend team revenues. If I'm understanding that correctly (and maybe I'm not?), then why does everyone continue to site Cohen's personal deep pockets?

Because Cohen owns 97 percent of the Mets and does not care if the team loses money.

 

[BaseballJones]

Thats sort of the irony. Everybody needs a Soto, in one respect. But the Sox OF is in good shape.

If Anthony end up being what we all hope and think he could be, the Red Sox will likely have the best OF in all MLB, especially now that Soto isn't on the Yankees.

Abreu is a young stud who has an excellent bat and is obviously an elite fielder. Duran just put up an 8.7 bWAR season. And if (this is the big IF) Anthony arrives and is a stud, that's three top of the line players in the Sox' OF.

 

[Kliq]

Yes, I agree with you this - it's a relevant question: how large a fraction do you want to spend on one player? And with Soto's numbers, it entered a gray area.

Meanwhile, I'm responding to the fact that folks - and the media - keep saying, Cohen has deeper pockets, he is personally richer than John Henry. But that's not how it works, is it? Cohen and Henry are not writing checks from their personal checking accounts. They are authorizing the team to spend team revenues. If I'm understanding that correctly (and maybe I'm not?), then why does everyone continue to site Cohen's personal deep pockets?

I think the argument would be that Cohen views the Mets as a rich guy toy, he is fine outspending revenue (or making less of a profit off the revenue) because he is an uber-rich guy that is motivated by winning for his own personal enjoyment. As opposed to most owners who view their team as a economic asset they can make money off of.

 

[cantor44]

If Anthony end up being what we all hope and think he could be, the Red Sox will likely have the best OF in all MLB, especially now that Soto isn't on the Yankees.

Abreu is a young stud who has an excellent bat and is obviously an elite fielder. Duran just put up an 8.7 bWAR season. And if (this is the big IF) Anthony arrives and is a stud, that's three top of the line players in the Sox' OF.

The team's offense sputtered some down the stretch. They need more slugging, and need balance to an overly LHH line up. Abreu has decided splits, as does most of the roster, and you just lost your sole RHH power hitter. I highly doubt they beat the Yankees or Dodgers for Teoscar, and Santander seems like a squint-your-eyes-and-you'll-be-happy acquisition. IMO - they need 2 starting pitchers, a RHH power hitter, and another bullpen arm. It's not impossible they get all those things, though probably unlikely.

 

[mauf]

Yes, I agree with you this - it's a relevant question: how large a fraction do you want to spend on one player? And with Soto's numbers, it entered a gray area.

Meanwhile, I'm responding to the fact that folks - and the media - keep saying, Cohen has deeper pockets, he is personally richer than John Henry. But that's not how it works, is it? Cohen and Henry are not writing checks from their personal checking accounts. They are authorizing the team to spend team revenues. If I'm understanding that correctly (and maybe I'm not?), then why does everyone continue to site Cohen's personal deep pockets?

The estimates I’ve seen suggest that, uniquely among MLB owners, Cohen may actually be writing checks to fund losses. (The Mets’ payroll last season was somewhere close to 100% of the team’s estimated revenues.) I don’t know if that’s relevant, as the Yankees’ offer to Soto was in the same neighborhood, but it’s the rare case where the canard about an owner’s deep pockets may actually be true.

 

[BaseballJones]

The team's offense sputtered some down the stretch. They need more slugging, and need balance to an overly LHH line up. Abreu has decided splits, as does most of the roster, and you just lost your sole RHH power hitter. I highly doubt they beat the Yankees or Dodgers for Teoscar, and Santander seems like a squint-your-eyes-and-you'll-be-happy acquisition. IMO - they need 2 starting pitchers, a RHH power hitter, and another bullpen arm. It's not impossible they get all those things, though probably unlikely.

I don't disagree. I've been arguing for those things all offseason too. But a RH power hitter can be slotted into DH. Doesn't have to be an OF.

 

[sezwho]

Because Cohen owns 97 percent of the Mets and does not care if the team loses money.

Or possibly Cohen owns 97% of the Mets and believes he’ll make money long term anyway.

 

[jon abbey]

Or possibly Cohen owns 97% of the Mets and believes he’ll make money long term anyway.

That would just be a bonus, he wants the Mets to win more than he cares about making even more money. Imagine the craziest fan on this site being the richest owner in baseball and I think you're in the ballpark.

 

[DeJesus Built My Hotrod]

My question is once again, if $700mm+ is so irrational and we assume this contract is a winners curse/ albatross/overpay, why did three clubs (assuming reports are accurate) seem prepared to offer it? And why was there interest from other teams just below?

Are they all trying to force Steve Cohen into an expensive position? Smarter people than baseball executives have tried and failed.

People need to worry less about saving our favorite teams money and more about how much they have to invest in the whole enterprise. My suspicion, which is only fueled by each successive contract print, is that these ballclubs make a lot more than people believe. Maybe Cohen is crazy and he is a fanatic so he may just be spending like a one. But the Yankees need to be economically rational and the Sox do too. They have the money to do these deals.

 

[OCD SS]

If Anthony end up being what we all hope and think he could be, the Red Sox will likely have the best OF in all MLB, especially now that Soto isn't on the Yankees.

Abreu is a young stud who has an excellent bat and is obviously an elite fielder. Duran just put up an 8.7 bWAR season. And if (this is the big IF) Anthony arrives and is a stud, that's three top of the line players in the Sox' OF.

Sure, just as long as Duran & Abreu don’t regress at all.

 

[BaseballJones]

Sure, just as long as Duran & Abreu don’t regress at all.

Well they could even regress some and the point still holds true. I mean, Duran finished 5th in all MLB in bWAR at 8.7. If he regressed down to 5.7, he'd still have finished 12th in MLB, and would have been 3rd among all MLB OFs. That's a heck of a regression and yet he'd still be elite.

 

[Fishy1]

Yeah, and it's not impossible that Abreu gets better. His BB rate plummeted from its astronomical highs in the minor leagues. I wonder if we see a BB rate north of 10 or 11% in the near future for him.

 

[glennhoffmania]

In a vacuum I wish they got him, but if they did I would've been very worried that they wouldn't spend enough otherwise to be competitive enough. This deal is fucking insane and it only makes sense if an owner is willing to spend beyond it. I don't have much faith that the Sox ownership would've done so. He blew away the previous record contract by about 75% (using the Ohtani PV). That's just stupid.

 

[jercra]

That would just be a bonus, he wants the Mets to win more than he cares about making even more money. Imagine the craziest fan on this site being the richest owner in baseball and I think you're in the ballpark.

You can't think of things like owning major sports franchises in terms of annual revenue vs annual cost. The asset that is a major sports franchise is one of the best, most secure ways to turn a large amount of money into a VERY large amount of money. The Sox sold for $660M 22 years ago and are now worth about $4.5B. That $4.5B number alone is a pretty nice bump on $660M, but it's really the leverage of that $4.5B that's the real earner. That's what lets you do things like buy EPL, NHL, and F1 teams (that all get you more levers to buy more things). They are playing wealth games, not worrying about winning or losing $30M a season for a few seasons. Cohen may very well want a ring as fan, but he also knows having Soto and winning a ring(s) drives that valuation of his franchise up, likely significantly more than $750M over the next 15 years.

 

[Omar's Wacky Neighbor]

Because Cohen owns 97 percent of the Mets and does not care if the team loses money.

Yup. Henry considers the Sox a business or an investment.

Right now, Cohen considers the Mets bragging rights.

EDIT to their credit, the Cohens spend a ton to help to make the city a better place, including but not limited to Alexandra Cohen Hospital for Women and Newborns (which is my wife's "tables"), and God's Love We Deliver.

I think they actually, legitimately tried to sign him, which is a good sign. And I'm entirely fine losing out on this contract.

Same here.

 

[Spelunker]

I think they actually, legitimately tried to sign him, which is a good sign. And I'm entirely fine losing out on this contract.

 

[Oil Can Dan]

I'm probably alone on this but I actually wanted the Yankees to sign him for $750M+ as I think that coupled with the insane amount of luxury tax they'd have to pay would very much hamstring them in the future. Oh well.

 

[soxhop411]

View: https://twitter.com/BOSSportsGordo/status/1866162675236929717


Seems like he really did not wan to go back to the yanks

 

[Red(s)HawksFan]

View: https://twitter.com/BOSSportsGordo/status/1866162675236929717


Seems like he really did not wan to go back to the yanks

Not sure how that reads that Soto didn't want to go back to the Yankees. I read it as the Yankees bowed out once they came to the conclusion that Cohen's limit was significantly higher than theirs and they didn't want to play the game any more. Nothing to do with Soto's wants, other than he clearly wanted the biggest payday he could get.

 

[RedOctober3829]

Looks like the Red Sox were considered much higher than anyone thought until Sunday.

View: https://twitter.com/martinonyc/status/1866167809753100477

 

[Red(s)HawksFan]

Looks like the Red Sox were considered much higher than anyone thought until Sunday.

View: https://twitter.com/martinonyc/status/1866167809753100477

If that's how it played out, my guess is that the reporting about Cohen saying he'd go $50M over whatever anyone else offered probably had an element of truth to it. Maybe the $50M wasn't accurate, but I have no doubt he told Boras/Soto to come to him last and he'd top the best offer they got. If you're doing that, no need to be a major factor in the constant back and forth of offers. It probably was the Sox and Yankees bidding each other up, the Sox bow out at ~$700M, the Yankees think they've got him for $740M, and Cohen drops $765M with escalators and it was game over.

 

[Remagellan]

I think they actually, legitimately tried to sign him, which is a good sign. And I'm entirely fine losing out on this contract.

This is the best, and only sensible, take to have on this matter from the perspective of a Sox fan.

 

[Kliq]

Looks like the Red Sox were considered much higher than anyone thought until Sunday.

View: https://twitter.com/martinonyc/status/1866167809753100477

I think this is complete bullshit "reporting" or whatever.

We all knew the Mets really wanted Soto. We all know the Mets have an extremely rich owner that was willing to spend an incredible amount of money to get a deal done. The Mets ended up with Soto in the end. It's ridiculous to think the Mets were ever considered out of the running or close to out of the running.

 

[BigSoxFan]

Looks like the Red Sox were considered much higher than anyone thought until Sunday.

View: https://twitter.com/martinonyc/status/1866167809753100477

More days in first place in Soto sweepstakes than any other!

 

[Red(s)HawksFan]

I think this is complete bullshit "reporting" or whatever.

We all knew the Mets really wanted Soto. We all know the Mets have an extremely rich owner that was willing to spend an incredible amount of money to get a deal done. The Mets ended up with Soto in the end. It's ridiculous to think the Mets were ever considered out of the running or close to out of the running.

I agree that the Mets were never out of the running, but I could see where there might become a perception that they weren't a factor as the process ground on if they were simply waiting in the wings to match/top the best offer Soto got. I mean, if they're not actively participating in the bidding, it's easy to start overlooking them.

 

[JimD]

No complaints here. I believe that Red Sox ownership were serious about bidding for him, and that the reported request for a meeting with Boras and Soto was a smart move to see if there was a number that the player would agree to and come to Boston. My guess is that Boras either said 'No' or gave the Sox a ridiculous number because he always intended to given Cohen the last opportunity to top another team's offer. Even if everyone was certain that this is where we'd end up, it didn't hurt to try - you never knew if Soto had some number like $700 million in his head that he'd be internally happy with in order to go to a favorite team.

 

[SemperFidelisSox]

https://nypost.com/2024/12/09/sports/steve-cohen-wasnt-going-to-let-anything-stop-juan-soto-pursuit/

I'm impressed by the Mets intelligence/investigative team.

View: https://twitter.com/oneshiningmets/status/1865996095056126265

Heyman is an asshole for throwing this security guard under the bus. The guy will probably get doxed and threatened by crazy online fans.

 

[Van Everyman]

Heyman is an asshole for throwing this security guard under the bus. The guy will probably get doxed and threatened by crazy online fans.

The thing that podcaster he got mad at didn't seem to understand was that Boras doesn't need to pay Heyman. Breaking this deal and sharing all the inside information behind the deal (including various Boras grudges and recriminations) *is* the compensation.

 

[chawson]

Clip from Olney and Passan talking the Soto deal, calling it an “exceptional overpay.”

View: https://twitter.com/buster_espn/status/1866228684169871443?s=46&t=Tl7uNH0-pxEyJtNj1BktDA

 

[DeJesus Built My Hotrod]

Clip from Olney and Passan talking the Soto deal, calling it an “exceptional overpay.”

View: https://twitter.com/frankiestwoloud/status/1866237242530058623?s=46&t=Tl7uNH0-pxEyJtNj1BktDA

Passan says its an overpay.

Where is the data? Kind of sad that a grad of a big J institution can't even provide any information that may actually be of value. Where is his reporting on team and league finances? Why don't we get an investigation into how the big market teams can afford their rosters? How hard is it to substantiate this take if its so obvious?

 

[SemperFidelisSox]

Cohen met with Soto a second time at his home in Boca on Friday.

Not that it likely mattered, but the Yankees weren’t willing to give Soto a free suite.

The Yankees shouldn’t be faulted for bidding a whopping $760M, but they wouldn’t budge on the suite. The Yankees felt they couldn’t give a suite to Soto when Judge pays for his suite, and even Derek Jeter paid. They were willing to discount a suite but not alter their precedent.

https://nypost.com/2024/12/09/sports/steve-cohen-wasnt-sure-mets-won-juan-soto-sweepstakes-until-he-heard-yes/

 

[DeadlySplitter]

Clip from Olney and Passan talking the Soto deal, calling it an “exceptional overpay.”

View: https://twitter.com/frankiestwoloud/status/1866237242530058623?s=46&t=Tl7uNH0-pxEyJtNj1BktDA

Is there any credence Soto faked his age? Seems like jealous speculation

 

[LogansDad]

Is there any credence Soto faked his age? Seems like jealous speculation

Frankiestwoloud on twitter seems like a veritable expert on the subject. I would definitely give it credence based on his take.

Not.

 

[Cassvt2023]

Passan says its an overpay.

Where is the data? Kind of sad that a grad of a big J institution can't even provide any information that may actually be of value. Where is his reporting on team and league finances? Why don't we get an investigation into how the big market teams can afford their rosters? How hard is it to substantiate this take if its so obvious?

seriously? why don’t you wait until years 7-15 of the contract instead of harping on teams to reveal their personal finances? Of course most teams can afford their rosters. But how did that work out for the Angels with two generational talents for 5 years running? Or the Mets when they paid Lindor over 300m, then went out and grabbed both Scherzer and Verlander, future HOF SP. Or the Padres who had Machado, Soto, Tatis, Kim, Xander and a really good rotation, and went not very far…it’s not how much you spend, it’s how you spend it.

 

[DeJesus Built My Hotrod]

seriously? why don’t you wait until years 7-15 of the contract instead of harping on teams to reveal their personal finances? Of course most teams can afford their rosters. But how did that work out for the Angels with two generational talents for 5 years running? Or the Mets when they paid Lindor over 300m, then went out and grabbed both Scherzer and Verlander, future HOF SP. Or the Padres who had Machado, Soto, Tatis, Kim, Xander and a really good rotation, and went not very far…it’s not how much you spend, it’s how you spend it.

Some of us are interested in the finances of the teams in addition to what happens on the diamond. You are not. These are large numbers though and its only logical to try to understand how these payrolls work as well as the revenues behind them.

 

[chawson]

Is there any credence Soto faked his age? Seems like jealous speculation

Frankiestwoloud on twitter seems like a veritable expert on the subject. I would definitely give it credence based on his take.

Not.

I meant to link just the clip of Olney and Passan talking, not the retweet of whoever that is making the age speculation. I’ve edited it in my post.

 

[OCD SS]

Some of us are interested in the finances of the teams in addition to what happens on the diamond. You are not. These are large numbers though and its only logical to try to understand how these payrolls work as well as the revenues behind them.

… Especially when teams like to cry poverty as an excuse for why they don’t have a better team. It directly affects the competitiveness of the team on the field.

 

[Harry Hooper]

I'm probably alone on this but I actually wanted the Yankees to sign him for $750M+ as I think that coupled with the insane amount of luxury tax they'd have to pay would very much hamstring them in the future. Oh well.

No, I would have preferred that outcome too vs. the Mets making the signing.

 

[Over Guapo Grande]

I don't know. Soto signing with the Mets gives the schadenfreude of having a Steinbrenner complain about players only signing for the money.

 

[LogansDad]

I'm probably alone on this but I actually wanted the Yankees to sign him for $750M+ as I think that coupled with the insane amount of luxury tax they'd have to pay would very much hamstring them in the future. Oh well.

I get this, but for me, I like to enjoy watching awesome players play baseball, and Juan Soto is one of those players. I know the back end is going to hurt, but I think it would take a long time for the deal to actually start being detrimental to the Yankees organization, and it just wouldn't be worth the wait for me.

 

[pdub]

I do think the deal is an overpay because Soto is not a five-tool player. Below average defense and he's not a threat to steal bases. That said, his hitting is a 10/10, so the Mets are getting a generational hitter. Good for them. I've felt a wave of relief ever since the deal was announced, glad its over. Now we can move on to properly constructing the team.

 

[HangingW/ScottCooper]

Something interesting about Soto getting #22... not only does he need to reach a deal with Bret Baty, he needs to buy out the inventory of Bret Baty #22 merchandise.

View: https://bleacherreport.com/articles/10146678-juan-sotos-path-to-get-no-22-mets-jersey-from-baty-explained-amid-mlb-cba-rules