BOS bullpen 2018

[Hank Scorpio]

(Also I was on the main board looking for a BOS bullpen thread to see who the projected 7-8 guys were, but I don’t think there is one, so I bumped this instead, sorry. Someone want to start that?)

Locks
C. Kimbrel
J. Kelly
C. Smith
H. Hembree
M. Barnes

Likely (they've been terrible this spring...)
B. Workman
R. Scott

Guys like Poyner, Walden and Layne, maybe have an outside shot...

Once E-Rod and Pomeranz are good to go, Wright (also injured), and Johnson are likely headed for the pen, as they're out of options (I think). Who the hell knows what's going on with Tyler Thornburg.

 

[jon abbey]

Thank you! I was curious about Scott specifically after seeing the box score today, it seems like BOS is going to have a hard time all season trying to juggle guys (hitters and pitchers both) who are out of options and not cut into their depth.

 

[Jerry’s Curl]

I think Poyner has a good chance to beat out Scott based on his dominant spring performance.

 

[Red(s)HawksFan]

Poyner may beat out Scott, but I don't know if either make the Opening Day roster. They just may have to keep Poyner off the 40-man for flexibility purposes to start the year. For sure though, both will be in Pawtucket once all the starters are healthy (Johnson and Wright in the pen with Hank's five locks).

 

[Merkle's Boner]

I was surprised to see Pete Abe projecting Elias as getting one of the final spots in the pen. I would hope that would be only until Pomeranz is back and Johnson can move to the pen.

http://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/redsox/2018/03/22/opening-day-next-week-here-projection-red-sox-roster/05Oz8xrltupaKLjn3N8jKI/story.html

 

[Savin Hillbilly]

If the Sox decline to promote Poyner to the 40-man so they can keep Elias, I will really start to wonder what incriminating material Elias holds on DD. I mean, the man is pushing 30 and the best you can say for him is that as a 25-year-old rookie in a pitcher's park four years ago, he was almost average. His headshot belongs in the dictionary under "fungible". What am I missing here?

 

[AB in DC]

At the same time, what's the benefit to promoting Poyner just so he can be arm #12 for a few weeks until Pom/EdRo/Wright get healthy?

 

[Jerry’s Curl]

At the same time, what's the benefit to promoting Poyner just so he can be arm #12 for a few weeks until Pom/EdRo/Wright get healthy?

Because he can get guys out?

 

[lexrageorge]

Locks
C. Kimbrel
J. Kelly
C. Smith
H. Hembree
M. Barnes

Likely (they've been terrible this spring...)
B. Workman
R. Scott

Guys like Poyner, Walden and Layne, maybe have an outside shot...

Once E-Rod and Pomeranz are good to go, Wright (also injured), and Johnson are likely headed for the pen, as they're out of options (I think). Who the hell knows what's going on with Tyler Thornburg.

I believe it was reported yesterday that Thornburg has thrown a couple of bullpen sessions, and may be getting ready to take the next step towards pitching minor league batting practice in the next week or so. It's probably a May/June return for him, assuming he's able to continue progressing.

 

[jon abbey]

Looks like Poyner and Walden bump Workman and Scott, according to Chad Jennings:

Relief pitchers

• Craig Kimbrel
• Carson Smith
• Joe Kelly
• Matt Barnes
• Heath Hembree
• Bobby Poyner
• Marcus Walden

http://www.bostonherald.com/sports/red_sox/clubhouse_insider/2018/03/red_sox_seem_to_set_opening_day_roster_with_final_cuts

 

[bosox0192]

Will need to open a spot on the 40-man roster to add both Poyner and Walden.

 

[Buzzkill Pauley]

Will need to open a spot on the 40-man roster to add both Poyner and Walden.

Hernandez is a pretty easy move to the 60-day.

 

[Red(s)HawksFan]

Hernandez is a pretty easy move to the 60-day.

So is Pedroia.

 

[BigPapiMPD34]

Just curious, was Tommy Layne not invited to spring training with the big league club? I noticed his transaction is listed as a "minor league contract" with no mention of "invitation to spring training," which they included for other players like Steve Selsky. He doesn't appear on the "non-roster invitees" page either. His numbers look good this spring, although we know that his ceiling is just a Loogy.

Poyner would make more sense to make the opening day roster since he is younger, has more potential, and can be optioned back down to AAA.

 

[Jerry’s Curl]

Sounds like both Walden and Poyner made the 25 man roster.

 

[Mighty Joe Young]

Sounds like both Walden and Poyner made the 25 man roster.

To be subsequently optioned when Pom and ERod are reinstated

 

[grimshaw]

To be subsequently optioned when Pom and ERod are reinstated

Velazquez would probably be one of them.

 

[pinkunicornsox]

I missed it. How did Maddox get injured?

 

[Mighty Joe Young]

Velazquez would probably be one of them.

Forgot about Vazquez .. looks like Poyner is the 7th guy/loogy then

 

[vadertime]

Just curious, was Tommy Layne not invited to spring training with the big league club? I noticed his transaction is listed as a "minor league contract" with no mention of "invitation to spring training," which they included for other players like Steve Selsky. He doesn't appear on the "non-roster invitees" page either. His numbers look good this spring, although we know that his ceiling is just a Loogy.

Poyner would make more sense to make the opening day roster since he is younger, has more potential, and can be optioned back down to AAA.

Correct. He was not invited to the big league camp.

 

[Buzzkill Pauley]

So is Pedroia.

He’s at least doing baseball activities. Hernandez is 2-4 weeks out from even picking up a bat.

 

[Jerry’s Curl]

To be subsequently optioned when Pom and ERod are reinstated

Wouldn’t Velazquez be optioned?

 

[Buzzkill Pauley]

Wouldn’t Velazquez be optioned?

Johnson also needs to head to the pen, requiring one more move. Add Wright to the mix, and it’d be yet one more arm. But these things have a way of working out, so no need to plan them all out.

 

[charlieoscar]

bb-ref shows average level of opposition batters that pitchers face in their spring training stats, with:
1 = opposing batter is a pitcher
1.5-3 = rookie league/short season
4 = A (SALLY/MWL)
5 = high-A (CAL/CAR)
7 = AA
8 = AAA
10 = MLB

Walden's average batter faced ranked at 6.7 while Poyner's ranked at 7.6. Given Walden's long minor league career with less than outstanding numbers, I'm a bit leery of his addition to the pen. On the other hand, Poyner only has 38.1 innings as high as AA.

 

[Red(s)HawksFan]

Walden won't be around long and his role will be limited to long man in a blow out. Given the upcoming opponents, it's unlikely he'll be needed. Then in a week and a half, when Pomeranz and Rodriguez need to be activated, he'll be shipped to Pawtucket and probably never seen again.

 

[Jerry’s Curl]

Johnson also needs to head to the pen, requiring one more move. Add Wright to the mix, and it’d be yet one more arm. But these things have a way of working out, so no need to plan them all out.

And eventually Thornburg will return requiring another move.

 

[Lose Remerswaal]

Much as I was pumping Velazquez's tires last year, I expect him to be an easy removal from the 40 man roster when appropriate

Edit: torts? I meant Tires.

 

[joe dokes]

Much as I was pumping Velazquez's torts last year, I expect him to be an easy removal from the 40 man roster when appropriate

I think pumping torts describes the sewage backups in Oakland.

 

[nighthob]

And eventually Thornburg will return requiring another move.

We probably shouldn't count on it given the track record of pitchers with that problem.

 

[lexrageorge]

We probably shouldn't count on it given the track record of pitchers with that problem.

Thornburg did throw minor league batting practice recently, and is slated to do more soon. Granted, it's still a long road back for him, but he's at least progressing.

 

[nighthob]

Yeah, but there are no guarantees that he gets back to where he was. We should temper our expectations to thinking of him as a JAG until he proves otherwise. Counting on him being good enough to pitch in high leverage situations seems a little optimistic to me.

 

[Red(s)HawksFan]

I'm not sure what anyone's expectations for Thornburg are, but merely mentioning that he may be back at some point this season isn't really the same as expecting him to be a high leverage late inning option immediately upon that return.

 

[Savin Hillbilly]

Yeah, but there are no guarantees that he gets back to where he was. We should temper our expectations to thinking of him as a JAG until he proves otherwise. Counting on him being good enough to pitch in high leverage situations seems a little optimistic to me.

Sure, but the question wasn't about him pitching high leverage situations, it was about the need to make a roster move when he comes back. The league isn't going to say "well, he's probably going to struggle, so you can carry him as a 26th man while you figure that out."

 

[nighthob]

Yeah, but the track record for guys returning from thoracic outlet syndrome is pretty ruinous. If he ever pitches for Boston it will be a victory.

 

[luckysox]

I hope this season begins and proceeds well enough that if and when Thornburg is ready, it's a conundrum in terms of getting him on the roster.

 

[DeadlySplitter]

so this group is going to be under siege immediately. my main concern is Smith had nothing and he's supposed to be the setup guy. That 3-2 hanger to Span was the dagger, a guy who should never get a XBH.

if there's a ton of negative regression from last year (and there might be, the extra innings record was insane) and it ends up being Kimbrel and a bunch of AAA guys, that should make everyone nervous.

 

[lexrageorge]

What was it that Eck said last year that got Price upset? Should have saved it for today.

 

[curly2]

so this group is going to be under siege immediately. my main concern is Smith had nothing and he's supposed to be the setup guy. That 3-2 hanger to Span was the dagger, a guy who should never get a XBH.

Yeah, watching Smith -- after a full offseason to get stronger -- made me really pessimistic. His slider should make him good against RHB, but I wonder what he will use to get lefties out.

 

[Jerry’s Curl]

So we don’t have a 7th or 8th inning guy and Cora wants to watch Sale and Price’s pitch counts? Seems like a winning recipe.

 

[strek1]

This is what happens when you have proven failures and you keep trotting them out there hoping that "This year" they figure it out.

 

[CoffeeNerdness]

It seems pretty clear that physical fitness isn't a big deal to Carson Smith. It's frankly embarrassing to show up after a rehab/offseason looking so flabby and un-athletic.

 

[Adrian's Dome]

Holy shit guys, overly reactionary much? Jesus.

Maybe if Joe fucking Kelly didn't come in with a 4-0 lead and walk the bases juiced we wouldn't even be talking about Carson Smith's waistline after he was shoved into a terrible situation on short notice and set up to fail.

Can we please go more than one bad inning before throwing out the blanket judgments and sharpening the pitchforks?

 

[DeadlySplitter]

JD's sister said it's 162 one-game seasons here. Get with the program!

My only point from this game is I'm concerned about Smith shitting the bed. Kelly is a known high variable guy at this point. But a WS contender can't have the 8th inning guy being ass.

 

[chawson]

Can we please go more than one bad inning before throwing out the blanket judgments and sharpening the pitchforks?

Yes and we will, but this is the same bullpen that Farrell repeatedly passed over in the ALDS in favor of Price and Sale.

There were a disproportionate amount of solid relievers available this winter. Cheap too. Peter Moylan signed for 600k.

 

[Adrian's Dome]

JD's sister said it's 162 one-game seasons here. Get with the program!

My only point from this game is I'm concerned about Smith shitting the bed. Kelly is a known high variable guy at this point. But a WS contender can't have the 8th inning guy being ass.

He was ass. He was also rushed and set up to fail cleaning up Kelly's mess, which was inexcusable in that situation.

Be mad at Kelly. Be mad at Cora using Kelly instead of Smith.

You put Smith in that game at the beginning of the 8th and he gives up the walk and double, it's 4-1 at that point. Granted, I doubt that happens given the completely different situation that would've been, but still. Victimizing him for giving up a walk and double when it's entirely Kelly's fault for loading up the bags on BBs is misplacing the blame.

 

[Harry Hooper]

Nice to see DD's lack of interest in adding a competent lefty to the pen bite their butts in Game 1.

 

[InsideTheParker]

What was it that Eck said last year that got Price upset? Should have saved it for today.

"YUCK"

 

[Jerry’s Curl]

Nice to see DD's lack of interest in adding a competent lefty to the pen bite their butts in Game 1.

Poyner might be their best reliever outside if Kimbrel.

 

[CoffeeNerdness]

He was ass. He was also rushed and set up to fail cleaning up Kelly's mess, which was inexcusable in that situation.

Be mad at Kelly. Be mad at Cora using Kelly instead of Smith.

You put Smith in that game at the beginning of the 8th and he gives up the walk and double, it's 4-1 at that point. Granted, I doubt that happens given the completely different situation that would've been, but still. Victimizing him for giving up a walk and double when it's entirely Kelly's fault for loading up the bags on BBs is misplaci..ng the blame.

We know Joe Kelly. We've ridden on that roller coaster for years now. Conversely, Carson Smith's Red Sox career has been wrapped in the phrase "wait until he gets healthy" so when comes out on opening day and looks atrocious it seems worthy of talking about. To my eyes he looked much, much worse than Kelly. He couldn't spot anything. His fastball was all over the place and his slider was sloppy. Joe Kelly looked like Joe Kelly. His outing revealed nothing except he should be kept as far away from the 8th inning as possible. Funny enough he actually got squeezed badly by the ump and had that not been the case he may have actually been able to cobble his way through the inning without all that much damage.

As for Cora, I'm not sure what to make of it and would like to read his post game comments. I'm not surprised he stayed away from Poyer making his MLB debut in a high leverage situation. I'm also not surprised that he chose Kelly over Smith given that Smith has only pitched 9 innings over the last two seasons and it's reasonable to expect that Kelly wouldn't cough up a four run lead.

 

[dbn]

The Red Sox are on a pace for a 162 loss season when Smith pitches.