Bloom/Cora's Obsession with Marginal Players?

[mauf]

A strong devotion to Arauz, et al. is being demonstrated. Whether it's excessive or irrational is the question.

To the extent there’s “devotion” here, I think it’s to Arroyo (the presumptive DFA casualty if Fitzgerald were called up), not to Arauz, who has options and is too young to jettison from the 40-man.

Arroyo is hitting 232/326/557 since May 1 and was a useful major leaguer in 2021. It’s not crazy to think he’s a better option than a 28-year old guy who’s never had a major-league appearance, especially if the FO thinks there was some since-fixed mechanical problem or injury that accounts for Arroyo’s execrable April performance.

Moving Barnes to the 60-day IL would make room on the 40-man for all three but doesn’t seem to be in the cards for whatever reason.

 

[Daniel_Son]

I actually hope he gets a shot; I just don’t think it’s realistic to think they would have opened up a roster spot for him in April as a 27/28 year old with a half season of minor league usefulness and a hot Spring Training. Shaw was cooked, but they only gave him 19 ABs (enough to probably cost them a win given how badly they were scrounging for runs in April to be sure); it was Dalbec’s utter hopelessness that compounded that mistake. Anyway, I‘m just annoyed with the tone of this forum and certain threads lately, and my first response didn’t add much to this discussion.

No worries, it's a valid point. I just think the addition of Fitzy's hot bat in April and early May would've been worth losing Shaw, Arroyo, Arauz, or whoever else. YMMV.

At the end of the day, the guys who make these decisions are privy to information that we are not - so I'm sure there's a valid reason why he hasn't gotten a shot yet (or why Marwin Gonzalez got so much rope last year, as JA noted upthread).

 

[chawson]

I think a better question is why the obsession with Ryan Fitzgerald, a 28-year-old JAG who's never made a prospect list and who's put up a .762 OPS in Worcester since May 1.

 

[mauf]

I think a better question is why the obsession with Ryan Fitzgerald, a 28-year-old JAG who's never made a prospect list and who's put up a .762 OPS in Worcester since May 1.

Fitzgerald has been a different, better player since the lost 2020 season. I’m not sold on him either, but his lack of prospect pedigree isn’t important, at least so long as we’re only discussing whether he’s our best option for the last spot on the active roster.

 

[chawson]

Fitzgerald has been a different, better player since the lost 2020 season. I’m not sold on him either, but his lack of prospect pedigree isn’t important, at least so long as we’re only discussing whether he’s our best option for the last spot on the active roster.

I get that, but doesn't it all seem a little overblown? The only prospect scouts who have remotely given him attention are our own Sox Prospects guys, and they top him out at as a "potential up-and-down utility player" with the "ceiling of a platoon bat."

If Fitzgerald has fundamentally changed, that's terrific. But I'd like to see someone outside of the Sox media orbit give him so much as a passing interest. It's cool he had a nice little spring, but so did Steve Selsky back in 2017. It's clear he's changed his swing, but so has Rob Refsnyder, who's having a better season and better fits our platoon situation. I think people just like the Ryan Fitzgerald story.

 

[E5 Yaz]

I get that, but doesn't it all seem a little overblown? The only prospect scouts who have remotely given him attention are our own Sox Prospects guys, and they top him out at as a "potential up-and-down utility player" with the "ceiling of a platoon bat."

If Fitzgerald has fundamentally changed, that's terrific. But I'd like to see someone outside of the Sox media orbit give him so much as a passing interest. It's cool he had a nice little spring, but so did Steve Selsky back in 2017. It's clear he's changed his swing, but so has Rob Refsnyder, who's having a better season and better fits our platoon situation. I think people just like the Ryan Fitzgerald story.

Agree with all that ... plus they've never seen him play at the MLB level before, so they've never seen him fail -- therefore he has to be better than Arauz or Arroyo or Refsnyder

 

[jon abbey]

It's cool he had a nice little spring, but so did Steve Selsky back in 2017.

A more recent example is from this year, Kyle Higashioka led all of MLB with 7 HRs this spring training, and has none this season in 94 PAs while rocking a putrid .422 OPS.

 

[Red(s)HawksFan]

To the extent there’s “devotion” here, I think it’s to Arroyo (the presumptive DFA casualty if Fitzgerald were called up), not to Arauz, who has options and is too young to jettison from the 40-man.

Arroyo is hitting 232/326/557 since May 1 and was a useful major leaguer in 2021. It’s not crazy to think he’s a better option than a 28-year old guy who’s never had a major-league appearance, especially if the FO thinks there was some since-fixed mechanical problem or injury that accounts for Arroyo’s execrable April performance.

Moving Barnes to the 60-day IL would make room on the 40-man for all three but doesn’t seem to be in the cards for whatever reason.

Considering the last report on Barnes' shoulder is that they expect him to return when he's eligible, putting Barnes on the 60-day IL would be a bit premature and over the top. Unless we think that his injury is fake and all posturing to be rid of him in general, in which case going immediately to the 60-day IL wouldn't be that big a further fraud step.

 

[chawson]

I don't think Arroyo would be in danger of a DFA regardless. He's having an inverse season to the one he had last year, when he was pretty lucky despite a lot of so-so contact. This FanGraphs article lists him as one of the MLB hitters who's most underperforming his BABIP and slugging peripherals. He's hitting the ball hard, more frequently than he ever has, without much of anything to show for it.

 

[Daniel_Son]

I get that, but doesn't it all seem a little overblown? The only prospect scouts who have remotely given him attention are our own Sox Prospects guys, and they top him out at as a "potential up-and-down utility player" with the "ceiling of a platoon bat."

If Fitzgerald has fundamentally changed, that's terrific. But I'd like to see someone outside of the Sox media orbit give him so much as a passing interest. It's cool he had a nice little spring, but so did Steve Selsky back in 2017. It's clear he's changed his swing, but so has Rob Refsnyder, who's having a better season and better fits our platoon situation. I think people just like the Ryan Fitzgerald story.

He had a pretty good season across AA-AAA last year, too (.262/.340/.571 in AA, .271/.351/.505 in AAA). He lost 2020 to COVID. And yeah, he's got a nice story, but I don't think people calling for him to come up is based on that alone. He's had two-year track record of success in the minors. He's already 27 years old, so he's not going to get much better.

I think people are perplexed by management's fixation on getting the Travis Shaws and the Marwin Gonzalezes and Danny Santanas of the world major league at-bats when you've got a guy who could hit at least as well as them in the minors - and given what he showed in ~200 ABs across ST/April/May of this year, he might be capable of bringing something more to the table. I don't think it's overblown to say that a red-hot 27-year-old Ryan Fitzgerald would've been more valuable to the club in April than 32-year-old Travis Shaw.

 

[patinorange]

I don't think Arroyo would be in danger of a DFA regardless. He's having an inverse season to the one he had last year, when he was pretty lucky despite a lot of so-so contact. This FanGraphs article lists him as one of the MLB hitters who's most underperforming his BABIP and slugging peripherals. He's hitting the ball hard, more frequently than he ever has, without much of anything to show for it.

Cynical I know, but he is overdue for an injury, so we won't have to worry about him being DFA'd.

 

[Manramsclan]

The obsession here is not with marginal players, but rather not overpaying for average performance. Finding more fungible assets that can fill out the roster in the margins at minimal cost.

Kiké is a good example of this as well, because at $6M last year he was a low risk steal.
Arroyo is a guy with pedigree who costs peanuts and still may pop (albeit less and less likely every year that he will do so.) He is the same age as Fitzgerald, who has 9 games at the Major League level. I would think that Arroyo has a better chance to be closer to league average than Fitzgerald due to experience alone.

 

[Red(s)HawksFan]

He had a pretty good season across AA-AAA last year, too (.262/.340/.571 in AA, .271/.351/.505 in AAA). He lost 2020 to COVID. And yeah, he's got a nice story, but I don't think people calling for him to come up is based on that alone. He's had two-year track record of success in the minors. He's already 27 years old, so he's not going to get much better.

I think people are perplexed by management's fixation on getting the Travis Shaws and the Marwin Gonzalezes and Danny Santanas of the world major league at-bats when you've got a guy who could hit at least as well as them in the minors - and given what he showed in ~200 ABs across ST/April/May of this year, he might be capable of bringing something more to the table. I don't think it's overblown to say that a red-hot 27-year-old Ryan Fitzgerald would've been more valuable to the club in April than 32-year-old Travis Shaw.

All of those "of the world" folks were signed (and all but Shaw was released) before anyone here outside the minor league forum had heard of Fitzgerald. And it's not a two year track record for him, it's a year and two months. The biggest change/improvement for Fitzgerald has been his power (career SLG under .400 before last season). It was reasonable for there to be a bit of skepticism over the winter that the bump in 2021 was real. It's still reasonable to be skeptical based on the Polar Park effect. I think most people here are over-excited about him based solely on his performance during 10 games in spring training.

 

[Petagine in a Bottle]

The problem is that the 40-man roster has very few position players capable of helping the team now. The infielders on the 40-man in Worcester are Arauz and Downs. The outfielders are…Duran. Then they’ve got the two catchers (Wong and Hernandez), and that’s it. So slim pickings when it’s time for a call up.

They could call up Fitzgerald and dump one of the guys above or a pitcher, but then they will just have to drop Fitzgerald down the road when they have to activate Taylor, Sale, or Paxton.

 

[jon abbey]

The problem is that the 40-man roster has very few position players capable of helping the team now.

One thing that really annoys me is how MLB essentially forces teams to protect some of their top prospects years before they are ready, clogging the 40 man. There should be a 5 man reserve list, where you can put guys you'd like to protect but who have zero chance of helping the major league team in the subsequent 12 months. This would encourage teams even more to develop their own players, rich and poor franchises alike.

 

[chawson]

I think people are perplexed by management's fixation on getting the Travis Shaws and the Marwin Gonzalezes and Danny Santanas of the world major league at-bats when you've got a guy who could hit at least as well as them in the minors - and given what he showed in ~200 ABs across ST/April/May of this year, he might be capable of bringing something more to the table. I don't think it's overblown to say that a red-hot 27-year-old Ryan Fitzgerald would've been more valuable to the club in April than 32-year-old Travis Shaw.

The irony here is that if you're talking about a career light-hitting utility guy who changed his swing and had a power breakout in his age-28 season, that literally was Danny Santana. Except unlike Fitzgerald, he did it at the major league level and doesn't have platoon splits. Bloom took a flier on him the first chance he got, he had a bad/hurt 127 PAs and he's been a punchline around here ever since.

 

[Petagine in a Bottle]

One thing that really annoys me is how MLB essentially forces teams to protect some of their top prospects years before they are ready, clogging the 40 man. There should be a 5 man reserve list, where you can put guys you'd like to protect but who have zero chance of helping the major league team in the subsequent 12 months. This would encourage teams even more to develop their own players, rich and poor franchises alike.

Yeah, that’s a good idea. The Sox have definitely been hurt having to use 40 man spots on guys like Groome and Mata, who have to be protected but aren’t close to helping the big league team. It feels like with the active roster increased to 26, moving the 40 man to 42 at least could help.

 

[Petagine in a Bottle]

Another thing here- and I’ve been as critical of the Sox bench as any- but is it just harder to find these guys nowadays? Offense is down, hard throwing relievers are everywhere, and the gap between AAA and the majors seems larger than ever. The days of the early 2000’s Sox lineups with above average offensive players at almost every position and solid depth on the bench seems unlikely to return.

 

[Rovin Romine]

All of those "of the world" folks were signed (and all but Shaw was released) before anyone here outside the minor league forum had heard of Fitzgerald. And it's not a two year track record for him, it's a year and two months. The biggest change/improvement for Fitzgerald has been his power (career SLG under .400 before last season). It was reasonable for there to be a bit of skepticism over the winter that the bump in 2021 was real. It's still reasonable to be skeptical based on the Polar Park effect. I think most people here are over-excited about him based solely on his performance during 10 games in spring training.

Thought I'd note F's 2022 slugging for home games: .468. Road: .581. I'm not saying that your skepticism isn't warranted for some reason, but park effects aren't one of them.

 

[Rovin Romine]

Bloom took a flier on him the first chance he got, he had a bad/hurt 127 PAs and he's been a punchline around here ever since.

Some needling was warranted.