The Bill Simmons Thread
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And now other writers are mocking Simmons' overreaction by parodying his trade value pieces and generally taking well-deserved pot shots at Simmons.
Bill Simmons is becoming the thing that he hated ... Dan Shaughnessy.
It's like watching a dorkier, dumber version of the Star Wars movies.
It's like watching a dorkier, dumber version of the Star Wars movies.
Jonah should announce his upcoming book about Tim Raines HOF election, "Now I Can Die in Peace".
Simmons is basically Goodell after the Mort Tweet. He's going to continue to take a beating until he clears away the nonsense.
Those tweet responses are awesome, thanks for posting, I had a good laugh.
I've also defended him in the past, but this incomprehensible and indefensible. I mean come on, it's a semi interesting gimmick, but what matters is the content right?
I've also defended him in the past, but this incomprehensible and indefensible. I mean come on, it's a semi interesting gimmick, but what matters is the content right?
There's no way somebody didn't write a trade value column before him. That just has to be something Bob Ryan or Dr. Z or Peter Gammons did 30-40 years ago.
I had forgotten about the "Do I get to speak now?" thing.
I remember back in his heyday when he would still mention how the Boston Herald sportswriter had the nerve to expect him to pay his dues rather than let him write columns on the Celtics right away. I remember thinking that he would rather be working for a newspaper if he was still grousing about it even when he was doing better than everyone at the Herald. Then I came to realize that he's ridiculously thin-skinned and will never forget a slight, real or perceived.
Simmons is probably still grousing that the only reason he finished second in the third-grade spelling bee is because the winner was given easier words to spell.
I remember back in his heyday when he would still mention how the Boston Herald sportswriter had the nerve to expect him to pay his dues rather than let him write columns on the Celtics right away. I remember thinking that he would rather be working for a newspaper if he was still grousing about it even when he was doing better than everyone at the Herald. Then I came to realize that he's ridiculously thin-skinned and will never forget a slight, real or perceived.
Simmons is probably still grousing that the only reason he finished second in the third-grade spelling bee is because the winner was given easier words to spell.
He's a guy who's undoubtedly been successful because of his writing talent, but he seems to forget that he got quite a lot of help and some lucky breaks along the way to make it. The Sports Dad used to pay his rent back when Simmons was bartending at night and writing his blog during the day. Yes, his blog was really good and that's what launched his career, but there are quite a few people who had equal writing talent and didn't benefit from their parents paying their rent for a while.
The Herald anecdote is a good one; I've heard that and it kind of points to his lack of willingness to pay his dues. He's talented but entitled too, and he was those things well before the term millennial came into use.
The Herald anecdote is a good one; I've heard that and it kind of points to his lack of willingness to pay his dues. He's talented but entitled too, and he was those things well before the term millennial came into use.
I remember on his old Digital Cities page he wrote about the Herald sports room and how he couldn't believe that Mike Felger got a higher profile than him. He was convinced it was because Felger laughed louder at the editor's jokes, or brought coffee in for his bosses or just kissed his ass. Bill was adamant that he wasn't going to do that because he was better than Felger and that he'd let his writing do his talking.
But there was a real underlying bitterness and entitlement to that too, which I didn't recognize when I first read Simmons. Of course Felger got noticed for doing the little things, he was working harder than Simmons. Kissing ass or whatever you call it, is part of the game. You do the shit assignments, you make sure your boss knows who you are, you get coffee -- that's a big part of your job. To sit back and complain--publicly!--is pretty poor form. And I don't want to kill the guy for something he wrote 20 years ago, but it seems as if he hasn't learned too much.
I think harping on his Herald takes is a bit of a stretch. He was every 20-something, bitching about a legacy industry that had all manner of old school practices that stifled anyone who wanted to rise rapidly or do something new. I'm sure most of us here who are middle-age had similar complaints about our workplace when we were the same age.
That being said, it's so strange that a guy in hid mid-40s, who has had such incredible success in his field, is as thin-skinned as he is. At what point do you just look around your mansion in LA, take stock of your life, and let something go?
That being said, it's so strange that a guy in hid mid-40s, who has had such incredible success in his field, is as thin-skinned as he is. At what point do you just look around your mansion in LA, take stock of your life, and let something go?
I totally agree, which is why I wrote that I don't want to kill the guy for something he wrote 20 years ago. Jesus, I look back on what I wrote 15 years ago and I want to throw myself out a window.
What I'm commenting on is this self-absorbtion that he seemingly hasn't been able to shake; like all great works of literature comes from Bill Simmons. I would think that by 40-something you end up realizing that there are people out there who are a bit more talented (especially when you write like three times a year), work every bit as hard as you do or write similar things to you and that calling someone out for that in a public forum is not a good look.
Despite the prestige, money and fame, like his writing, it sure doesn't seem as Simmons has grown at all. I'm not married to the guy, so whatever, but that's a little disappointing.
I don't know about now but he hadn't gotten over it even after he became successful.
https://web.archive.org/web/20060506042210/http://www.bostonsportsmedia.com/archives/shots/the_boston_sports_guy_revisited_reinvented_and_revealed.php
From 2005:
Does anyone really think Simmons would have had the gumption and work ethic to do the beat reporting that everyone has to do before they become columnists? Even Shank, the most miserable prick of them all, was on the beat first in Baltimore and then in Boston. Does anyone see Simmons on the Celtics beat, writing game stories or daily team notes? I sure don't.
I think it's hilarious in the quote above that he bitches that he didn't want to turn into one of those people who slammed others behind their backs, and three sentences later he slams Mike Felger behind his back. Simmons and irony have never met.
I think it's hilarious in the quote above that he bitches that he didn't want to turn into one of those people who slammed others behind their backs, and three sentences later he slams Mike Felger behind his back. Simmons and irony have never met.
To be fair, Simmons didn't only have talent. He worked his butt off and I think there was some writer who said precisely that a couple of years ago. I believe he called him the hardest working man in the business.
In the blogging business? I'd agree with that. His early work was prolific. I don't think he had the chops to make it in the newspaper business as was his original goal. Simmons is the guy who bitched about being in Jacksonville for the Super Bowl because the city wasn't Super Bowl-y enough. I can't see how he would have done shlepping through the Milwaukee airport at 2 AM in February as a Celtics beat reporter.
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Anyone who ever thought his post to Keri was a joke has never read or followed Simmons before (in addition to not paying attention to Jay Caspian Kang's tweet or the fact Keri never acknowledged or riffed on Simmons post)
I used to be a huge Simmons fan, now I legitimately have no idea how anyone could listen to him. He never admits he's wrong or even acknowledges he said anything different.
Perfect example is his DeAaron Fox take. About 2 weeks ago he was ranting about how Calipari is a terrible coach, how Monk should be handed the car keys and Fox should be on the bench in crunch time.
Today with Kevin O'Connor he talked about how Fox was special, fearless, and should be a top 6 pick. No acknowledgment of what he said before, not even a simple "I've watched Fox more and my original take was wrong" just launches into the Fox discussion like he's never talked about him before.
It's like that with everything too. No matter how wrong he is or how vociferously he argued the wrong side (see Woj and the KD Warrior report) he never just says "I was wrong". It's always a confluence of things that led him to be wrong now but my god at the time he was completely right!!
I used to be a huge Simmons fan, now I legitimately have no idea how anyone could listen to him. He never admits he's wrong or even acknowledges he said anything different.
Perfect example is his DeAaron Fox take. About 2 weeks ago he was ranting about how Calipari is a terrible coach, how Monk should be handed the car keys and Fox should be on the bench in crunch time.
Today with Kevin O'Connor he talked about how Fox was special, fearless, and should be a top 6 pick. No acknowledgment of what he said before, not even a simple "I've watched Fox more and my original take was wrong" just launches into the Fox discussion like he's never talked about him before.
It's like that with everything too. No matter how wrong he is or how vociferously he argued the wrong side (see Woj and the KD Warrior report) he never just says "I was wrong". It's always a confluence of things that led him to be wrong now but my god at the time he was completely right!!
I don't do podcasts or twitter, but I've read - if I had to estimate - about 80%+ of the words he's ever written back to his Digital City days, see the comments here on his podcasts or twitter meltdowns and I certainly thought it was a joke. He's always been thin skinned, but one thing that came out after Grantland folded was that his employees loved him. I never thought he'd go after Keri, while Barnwell rips off similar stuff and he's never said a word. I don't know if it's something personal - maybe Keri not wanting to go to the Ringet when his espn contract ran out, if there was something under the surface between the two or if Simmons was just having a bad day and is too big a baby to apologize.
But unless you hate the guy, that was certainly something that seemed a bridge too far, imo. I could make a laundry list of writers that don't admit when they're wrong, including ones I respect and enjoy. I don't even particularly like Simmons anymore, I mean I guess I do for his creative content if not his sparse columns, but that surprised me and I don't think that's unreasonable by any stretch unless one has an agenda against him.
Simmons is something of a pioneer at what he did, both in the content, and especially the medium. He deserves credit for that. But now something that he was one of few people to do is more or less mainstream. And he's not as good at it as those who came after him. And he'll never be first or best at anything again. Assuming he was ahead of his time, or he came along at the exact right time, time has caught up. If he keeps this shit up, he'll turn into Norma Desmond.
Can you imagine Peter gammons shitting on the next reporter who decided to do a Sunday notes column?
Can you imagine Peter gammons shitting on the next reporter who decided to do a Sunday notes column?
You legitimately have no idea how anyone can listen to him, yet you know his opinion on 2 Kentucky prospects that he talked about two weeks apart?
I wonder, too, if the fact that Keri's column was in SI, the paragon of "established sports journalism" that ticked Simmons off more than the fact that Keri was the author. Simmons has always viewed himself as an outsider, because that's how he made a name for himself, and has chafed against big sports media. Even his time at ESPN was spent on Page 2 (before he distanced himself with Grantland) and ended tumultuously. I'd bet that part of him feels like, despite his successes, he's never been accepted into that "club", and seeing "his" idea be a feature for SI, of all places, just pissed him off more than anything. Like "you assholes don't respect ME but have no problems stealing my ideas."
It wouldn't excuse his non-joke in any way (although really, who cares except maybe Keri), but it helps explain it.
It wouldn't excuse his non-joke in any way (although really, who cares except maybe Keri), but it helps explain it.
But that wouldn't explain why he reacted the same way when Dave Cameron did an MLB trade value column in Fangraphs six years ago. Though if we take the anonymous former Grantlander's word that Simmons still holds a grudge over that, then him seeing Keri credit Cameron (albeit after he had credited Simmons himself) in SI could've poured some salt in an old wound.
For what it's worth, this is from Keith Law's chat this week:
http://bit.ly/2naBbCw?cc=9d1ab84a68e1a722df145c81ebb8fc45
See the thing is, jokes are supposed to be funny. Simmons' comment came across as grumpy and petty, and not humorous at all.
At this point the only way this will go away is if Keri himself says it was a joke.
At this point the only way this will go away is if Keri himself says it was a joke.
Even if it was a joke, it was a self aggrandizing one that's only true purpose was to bring positive attention to himself.
It's like some asshole "friend" letting you borrow a guitar for a gig and then "joking" to everyone in the audience that he it plays so much better than you.
It's like some asshole "friend" letting you borrow a guitar for a gig and then "joking" to everyone in the audience that he it plays so much better than you.
That's just sports writers in general. They make dumb predictions. Are usually wrong. And then never mention it again.
It was on a podcast with Joe House. House did immediately respond to his rant by claiming that he was going to wager on UK winning the national title because Simmons is a mush.
Yeah - I mean, that's basically the joy of Simmons. I don't think anyone takes his analysis seriously (I hope?). Getting angry about this stuff is half the fun.
I don't think that's the joy of Simmons at all. All sportswriters do that, and at best it's annoying but you can't stop reading their stuff. What Simmons did was write about sports the way most fans talk. Pet theories like levels of losing and the Ewing factor, comparing Roger Clemens like the ex-girlfriend who jilted you etc. Now I feel like his schtick has gotten old and Simmons doesn't translate to other mediums very well.
I think the most Simmons way to go about it would be to wait for the ASB, write a retro-preview for the American League where he takes a particularly noticeable shot at Team X for signing "Injury Prone" Player 1 (1 DL stint for a pulled hammy in the last 3 years) who now needs Tommy John, then advertise the NL preview coming out next week, only to never release it.
Periodically in this thread someone says that SOSH is more obsessed with Bill Simmons than anyone else is. Well, apologies if this has been posted here before, but someone just showed me an entire message forum dedicated to eviscerating our hero (presumably the forum name is a tribute to us, maybe it was even started by someone from here?):
http://www.sotsg.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=1
http://www.sotsg.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=1
You can feel your brain cells fizzle reading that. One of the first posts my eye fell on refers to him as "Simpson".
On an unrelated note: my eyes rolled a bit when I saw that Simmons had gone to the well again with *another* Durant podcast interview. But, man, is it great— KD is just a riveting interview.
KD is great as an interview, but he really does play the victim pretty hard when it comes to Oklahoma City's response to him signing with the greatest regular season team of all time. Other than that, he is tremendous, he goes deep into some NBA stuff that you usually don't hear. It was cool.
apparently the Baseball podcast is going to be available on TuneIn only for the next month...maybe that is the next revenue stream for the Ringer
I choose to skip the MTV, Fast Cars, WWE current stuff. I unfortunately heard him say Jim Ross was the best wrestling announcer of all time and I wanted to put him in a camel clutch and make him humble. No one can touch Heenan.
You're kidding yourself if you think this is unique to Simmons. Fast and the Furious and John Wick have an incredibly loyal fanbase among a large portion of the sports blogosphere.
I can sort of get Fast and the Furious. Yes, they're cheesy. But their one of the few franchises with a legitimately diverse cast that caters to an urban audience. But John Wick being popular in some circles? That would be disturbing.
People love John Wick.
And if you're surprised by people being into F&F you're just not paying attention. It's the biggest movie franchise going, that isn't made by Disney.
Simmons has used Tate Frazier in an Ed McMahon sort of role in a few podcasts recently. Not sure if that's a glimpse of the future, and I haven't listened to any of the other Ringer podcasts Tate appears on, but it doesn't seem to be the most promising direction for the BS Podcast.
Tate is also on one of the NFL shows with Lombardi. He's ok. Nothing to tune in for but he isn't annoying.
Simmons did say one of the funnier things I've heard from him recently. He told the Bodega Boys that for him watching Dr J fight Larry Bird would be like them seeing Michelle Obama fight Oprah.
He did the mailbag with Chris Ryan a few weeks ago and I liked that much better. I don't mind the idea and they've been a good way for him to discuss he playoffs I think. I really don't like Tate. If it doesn't involve a Carolina or Duke player he doesn't have much to say. And Bill has a weird Michael Scott- Ryan Howard relationship with him