Bill Simmons: Valuing Trades More Than Friendships

ifmanis5

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I’d argue his presence on Twitter is largely irrelevant at this point.
After he signed the Spotify contract everything is irrelevant since he has FU money now. He signed those deals based on his audience engagement and Twitter very much helped him get to that point. He's currently hiding to weather this storm.
 

8slim

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After he signed the Spotify contract everything is irrelevant since he has FU money now. He signed those deals based on his audience engagement and Twitter very much helped him get to that point. He's currently hiding to weather this storm.
I don’t blame him. This “storm” is bonkers.

I think it’s wild that on this very forum there’s probably as many posts killing Simmons as there is killing Portnoy. The two aren’t remotely the same.
 

kelpapa

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After he signed the Spotify contract everything is irrelevant since he has FU money now. He signed those deals based on his audience engagement and Twitter very much helped him get to that point. He's currently hiding to weather this storm.
So?
 

kelpapa

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I don’t blame him. This “storm” is bonkers.

I think it’s wild that on this very forum there’s probably as many posts killing Simmons as there is killing Portnoy. The two aren’t remotely the same.
It's because 15 years ago he lost an argument to somebody here, and decided he was done with this place. I wasnt here when it happened. But I know about it because it gets brought up every week.
 

ifmanis5

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It's because 15 years ago he lost an argument to somebody here, and decided he was done with this place. I wasnt here when it happened. But I know about it because it gets brought up every week.
I wasn't here either but he hasn't changed.
Nobody expects a scumbag like Portnoy to grow and evolve but Simmons should be better. At least Portnoy doesn't hide, Bill is.
 

kelpapa

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I wasn't here either but he hasn't changed.
Nobody expects a scumbag like Portnoy to grow and evolve but Simmons should be better. At least Portnoy doesn't hide, Bill is.
What are you even arguing about here?
 

Kliq

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Bill has no obligation to be on Twitter, like none. Is him going dark on Twitter after he got a bunch of shit from people, some justified and some of it certainly not, a coincidence? No, but if I was him I’d be doing the exact same thing. I wouldn’t be interested in a bunch of numbskulls who don’t listen to his podcasts anyway taking cheap shots about why Joe House is on his podcast.

FWIW, about a year ago Simmons stopped doing things like live tweeting games and such. He noted that he deleted Twitter from his phone, so he had been phasing it out before the stuff that happpened earlier.
 

kelpapa

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I wasn't here either but he hasn't changed.
Nobody expects a scumbag like Portnoy to grow and evolve but Simmons should be better. At least Portnoy doesn't hide, Bill is.
You also never responded to my"so" comment.
 

kelpapa

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Great ethical compass.
Are you fucking serious, douche bag? What is his issue ethically? He's a great dad and husband. He's never been arrested. He got called out for not having enough POC on his staff. He owned it and has already implemented changes. He had several guests after being called out were people to discuss blm and the movement. So yes, he's a fine ethical compass.

What the fuck have you done that's so great?
 

kelpapa

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I just pmed you. If you want to judge my ethics let's do it there.

PS - I told you to eat shit in the pm.
 

KingPK

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Bill has no obligation to be on Twitter, like none. Is him going dark on Twitter after he got a bunch of shit from people, some justified and some of it certainly not, a coincidence? No, but if I was him I’d be doing the exact same thing. I wouldn’t be interested in a bunch of numbskulls who don’t listen to his podcasts anyway taking cheap shots about why Joe House is on his podcast.

FWIW, about a year ago Simmons stopped doing things like live tweeting games and such. He noted that he deleted Twitter from his phone, so he had been phasing it out before the stuff that happpened earlier.
Fuck Twitter SO much. If there is one social media platform I'd nuke from orbit, it's that one.
 

CR67dream

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I just pmed you. If you want to judge my ethics let's do it there.

PS - I told you to eat shit in the pm.
Please keep what's in PM's in PM's, and know that name calling only takes away from your argument, which you were doing just fine in until this digression.

Also just as a general thing, everybody should be aware that overt personal attacks are high on our priority list right now, and will continue to be. We can all do better. I'd suggest everyone take this to heart.
 

kelpapa

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Please keep what's in PM's in PM's, and know that name calling only takes away from your argument, which you were doing just fine in until this digression.

Also just as a general thing, everybody should be aware that overt personal attacks are high on our priority list right now, and will continue to be. We can all do better. I'd suggest everyone take this to heart.
Stern. Stern but fair.
 

EvilEmpire

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Kelpapa was out of line, but why are you trolling the thread?

Edit: I don't give a shit about Simmons and have listened to or read exactly zero content from the Ringer, so I have no dog in this fight. But this idea that because Simmons isn't tweeting shit he's hiding and therefore isn't growing or evolving or whatever is ridiculous.
 

JCizzle

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I've made my arguments in a non-troll way and then was personally attacked. And those personal attacks are continuing.
I mean, he's taken tangible steps to improve diversity since he was called out on it through his recent hiring actions. At least to me, that's far more important than staying off Twitter. I'm not really understanding your point.
 

8slim

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I wasn't here either but he hasn't changed.
Nobody expects a scumbag like Portnoy to grow and evolve but Simmons should be better. At least Portnoy doesn't hide, Bill is.
As someone who is on this site precisely because Simmons pimped the place 20 years ago, I can say with 100% accuracy that he has grown. This is a guy who got famous from pieces on Digital City like “the babes of Wimbledon”. He acknowledges now how shitty that was. When his employees wanted to form a union, he didn’t fight it, and he acquiesced to the vast majority of their demands. No one is claiming that he’s John Lewis, but to say he hasn’t evolved is patently absurd. And anyone who’s consumed Barstool content in years has zero standing to drag him. None.
 
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ifmanis5

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I mean, he's taken tangible steps to improve diversity since he was called out on it through his recent hiring actions. At least to me, that's far more important than staying off Twitter. I'm not really understanding your point.
No changes to top management which is what really makes a difference.
Agreed, the recent hires are a good start. My point about twitter is that he's avoiding engagement which he knows will be negative when he keeps saying that he wants to be transparent. My point is that he has never taken criticism well and staying off twitter is that same pattern.
 

8slim

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No changes to top management which is what really makes a difference.
Agreed, the recent hires are a good start. My point about twitter is that he's avoiding engagement which he knows will be negative when he keeps saying that he wants to be transparent. My point is that he has never taken criticism well and staying off twitter is that same pattern.
How long is he required to take his public flogging? 6 months? A year?
 

Kliq

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The idea of being off Twitter is a condemnation of him straying from engagement is so stupid. Maybe instead of “engaging” with troll accounts and the Twitter cesspool he is having real conversations with people whose opionion he values.
 

ifmanis5

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How long is he required to take his public flogging? 6 months? A year?
Flogging would end tomorrow when he changes the leadership and direction of the site to actually be the change he keeps talking about. However, at this point we might be past that with a lot of folks. If he is indeed working on the change he says he is in good faith then he will deserve all the credit for it. It's still possible and I hope that does happen. He certainly has the resources.
 

JCizzle

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Flogging would end tomorrow when he changes the leadership and direction of the site to actually be the change he keeps talking about. However, at this point we might be past that with a lot of folks. If he is indeed working on the change he says he is in good faith then he will deserve all the credit for it. It's still possible and I hope that does happen. He certainly has the resources.
In coincidental timing, I just saw this news which appears to be a leadership/managerial role:

View: https://twitter.com/producertd/status/1289245215404855297?s=21

Starting next week, I’m super excited to be joining the @Spotify & @ringer family where I’ll be leading the @ringerpodcasts network and teaming up with some of the very best in the industry! LFG
 

johnmd20

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Flogging would end tomorrow when he changes the leadership and direction of the site to actually be the change he keeps talking about. However, at this point we might be past that with a lot of folks. If he is indeed working on the change he says he is in good faith then he will deserve all the credit for it. It's still possible and I hope that does happen. He certainly has the resources.
You are being ridiculous.
 

richgedman'sghost

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You can't take the heat? Get out of the kitchen. I honestly think Simmonds has come a long way in the past 10 years. In the paperback edition of his book, Bill takes several offensive and sexist shots at the WNBA. Bill has admitted that he was wrong to make those remarks and has tried to make amends over the years.
As for the issue at hand, Bill hired several diverse people to host new podcasts on his Ringer network. I think Bill will continue to change and evolve over time.
@ifmanis5 Why are you so concerned about Bill's presence on Twitter,? Unless you own stock in the company, most people don't give a damn whether Simmonds is on twitter or not. It seems like a silly hill to die on. To each their own I guess. Pm me if you disagree.
 

InstaFace

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I think it’s wild that on this very forum there’s probably as many posts killing Simmons as there is killing Portnoy. The two aren’t remotely the same.
In the end, despite the wave of moronic events seemingly weekly, there just isn't that much that's interesting to say about Portnoy. With Simmons, there are multiple reasonable positions you can take, and some of what he does has redeeming value.

Volume of posts is not a proxy for how strongly this community feels about something. If everyone agrees that Portnoy's a shithead, then there's rather few posts, except for the rare occasions when some knuckle-dragger comes along and starts off with a "wow everybody's so SENSITIVE here!" type rant. There just isn't that much to say.
 

johnmd20

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Simmons' new bugaboo is the fact that there are no cameras under the basket, like in international hoops, therefore the players are playing faster and looser because they don't have to worry about losing an eye if they drive hard. Seems like a stretch. Obviously his example was Paul George breaking his leg and how that couldn't happen in the bubble because there are no cameramen. Except for the fact that Paul George broke his leg in international competition.

Bill, we get it, you love the NBA. It is certainly the best run league. But shitting all over baseball because the no fans makes it horrendous but loving the NBA because the players can play with abandon because there are no cameras is just obnoxious. Heh, maybe the players are playing with abandon because they haven't played in 4 months and there is a lot of gas in the tank?

Nah, it's the cameras.
 

jose melendez

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I thought his add for Buffalo Wild Wings encouraging everyone to go out to a bar after he's been so critical of other covid protection measures was a little rough.
 

TomBrunansky23

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I've been reading/listening to Simmons for 20 years going back to Digital Cities, and SoSH led me to him too. I think I'm done which I am kind of sad about.

I like the NBA well enough but he (and really the rest of the Ringer) holds the league up as the paragon of what every other sports league should aspire to be to the exclusion of almost everything else. I wish Simmons would be honest enough to label his pod as NBA-centric because about 75% of the time it is. I agree about what was said upthread - Simmons is no longer a fan of baseball and makes it clear that MLB can do absolutely nothing right and is barely worth paying any attention to mainly because the NBA is everything baseball is not...that is to say, relevant, interesting, modern, well-run, etc. This of course glosses over issues like the NBA's too-cozy relationship with the Chinese government and the game turning into a three-point contest.

Lastly, as I listen to several Ringer podcasts including Simmons', it's blatantly obvious that there is some kind of standing order to completely ignore the NHL and omit it from every discussion. For example, in discussing how various leagues have responded to the pandemic in restarting (which has also been a frequent topic across pods like the Press Box), there is absolutely no discussion of how the Toronto/Edmonton bubble concept compares to the NBA Disney bubble or how MLB and the NFL has restarted. Look, the NHL is definitely fourth among equals, but it's not so irrelevant on the American sports landscape that it deserves to be disregarded completely...especially by someone who in the past has held himself out as a fan of the Bruins (the way he says he just stopped caring about hockey because of the Jacobs ownership seems strikingly similar to me in the way he no longer cares at all about baseball).

The last straw for me was the C.C./Ruocco podcast from 7/28. Bad enough the supposed Sox diehard has a former Yankee (with some salty history with the Red Sox) and the YES play-by-play man in waiting on his pod with no sense of irony, and bad enough Simmons is laughing right along with C.C. about how Mookie couldn't wait to get out of Boston, but the topper is how it took about 10 minutes into the pod to turn from an MLB discussion with two baseball guys to (you guessed it) an NBA discussion.

I realize this is all more about me than Simmons...it's just he's changed his focus and unfortunately it's time for me to move on. I'm under no illusion that I will be missed, but I miss the content he used to provide which aligned with my interests.
 

Kliq

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A year or two ago Bill began talking a lot about how people around basketball, mainly the media and the fans, became much more pro-player and how that was generally a good thing because who wants to side with the owners, right?

Recently, over the last few months he has said some interesting things, kind of reversing course and talking about how everyone being pro player has led to some dulled criticism. On his pod last week he mentioned that basically nobody really wanted to talk about Lou Williams and blame Lou Williams for potentially bringing down the bubble because he was at a strip club. "In my opinion, Lou Williams really can't get enough shit for what he did."

I'd be interested in knowing more about his perspective on the general media/player relationship and how it has changed. He is obviously someone who deals with players and their representatives to have them on podcasts, and I'd like to know more about his perspective. He has dropped a lot of bread crumbs lately, like has wanted to say more but reeled it in and avoided saying what he REALLY thinks.
 

kenneycb

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He's said before that the MLB and NHL don't get clicks. He had Sean McIndoe / Down Goes Brown at Grantland, so he was certainly open to it at one point but, outside a random Katie Baker article, the Ringer coverage has been minimal.

I have had the same thought you have from his podcasts, especially with regards to the bubble. The NHL is doing the same thing and have had zero tests and pretty sure nobody has broken containment either. Given he's said the success of a bubble is correlated to a commissioner's ability to lead, does that make Gary Bettman the top commish in sports?
 

shaggydog2000

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He's said before that the MLB and NHL don't get clicks. He had Sean McIndoe / Down Goes Brown at Grantland, so he was certainly open to it at one point but, outside a random Katie Baker article, the Ringer coverage has been minimal.

I have had the same thought you have from his podcasts, especially with regards to the bubble. The NHL is doing the same thing and have had zero tests and pretty sure nobody has broken containment either. Given he's said the success of a bubble is correlated to a commissioner's ability to lead, does that make Gary Bettman the top commish in sports?
The NHL bubble is also in Canada, which is a lot better for infection rates than Florida is.
 

TomBrunansky23

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He's said before that the MLB and NHL don't get clicks. He had Sean McIndoe / Down Goes Brown at Grantland, so he was certainly open to it at one point but, outside a random Katie Baker article, the Ringer coverage has been minimal.

I have had the same thought you have from his podcasts, especially with regards to the bubble. The NHL is doing the same thing and have had zero tests and pretty sure nobody has broken containment either. Given he's said the success of a bubble is correlated to a commissioner's ability to lead, does that make Gary Bettman the top commish in sports?
I guess then according to Simmons my two favorite sports are irrelevant. Shame on me then if I don't search elsewhere for content.

Bettman's last 5-7 years...not so bad? Successful Vegas expansion, labor peace, winter classic, extensive US television coverage, NHL Network deal with BAM...all in all...
 

kenneycb

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They’re somewhat irrelevant (hockey more than baseball) to him from the perspective of making money on a sports media platform.

I kinda hate that I’m kinda with you with Bettman. That said, have to take his whole body of work into perspective, so not ready to crown his ass just yet.
 

InstaFace

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I thought it was just understood that Simmons was probably going to be angling for an NBA minority owner share, probably as soon as his Spotify earn-out timeline completes and the checks clear. Which could be a year or two.
 

Pablo's TB Lover

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I've been reading/listening to Simmons for 20 years going back to Digital Cities, and SoSH led me to him too. I think I'm done which I am kind of sad about.

I like the NBA well enough but he (and really the rest of the Ringer) holds the league up as the paragon of what every other sports league should aspire to be to the exclusion of almost everything else. I wish Simmons would be honest enough to label his pod as NBA-centric because about 75% of the time it is. I agree about what was said upthread - Simmons is no longer a fan of baseball and makes it clear that MLB can do absolutely nothing right and is barely worth paying any attention to mainly because the NBA is everything baseball is not...that is to say, relevant, interesting, modern, well-run, etc. This of course glosses over issues like the NBA's too-cozy relationship with the Chinese government and the game turning into a three-point contest.
I mean Simmons has always been basketball-centric, as evidenced by his family's season tickets to when he was a little one. And I recall early in his writing career ("Boston sports guy") how concentrated his Celtics and general basketball writing was compared to baseball although the Sox were far more successful and interesting at the time (late 1990s/early 2000s). And his baseball columns were all Sox/Yankees hype missives, with very little actual analysis. Just curious why the change in heart vis a vis basketball/baseball about Simmons would occur now as opposed to earlier?

The Simmons content doesn't mean as much to me not due to the sport mix he covers, but the fact the Ringer has experts in all but hockey, and his podcast is really just a potpourri of stuff at this point. He still concentrates on basketball when it comes to sports figures, but he's interviewing entertainers, business CEOs, etc. just as much as folks in sports.