Bill Simmons: Valuing Trades More Than Friendships

johnmd20

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Listened to Simmons’ latest, which he opened with comments on how he misread the world on Sunday night and botched the pod. Said he wishes he did it differently and pledged to do better.

I wasn’t all that disappointed by Simmons on Sunday, although Russillo let me down more. Nonetheless, I found Simmons apology heartfelt and sincere. Something thin-skinned Bill absolutely couldn’t have done as recently as maybe 4-5 years ago. Maybe even more recently. Good on him.
Rusillo also issued a serious mea culpa and took responsibility for his tone deaf comments.
 

jose melendez

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I thought the tone of Ryen Rusillo's apology was fine, but the words were kind of lacking. What was the apology: It shouldn't have been me talking, the way I was talking doesn't capture how outraged I am about racist violence a opposed to just looting, I was too hot takey.

I don't think there was much introspection in it.
 

The Social Chair

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The Ringer writing staff taking shots at Simmons on twitter after he sincerely apologized is pretty unprofessional.

The website part of that company doesn't seem long for this world.
 

Remagellan

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At the risk of adding fuel to the fire, Simmons brings on DeRay Mckesson, which was decent despite the usual Bill shallowness at points, but then he tacks on the recording of another pod about the subject because he thinks it's so important that he wants to give it extra exposure. Does he choose Larry Wilmore's Black on the Air pod, or Higher Learning, the new pod with Van Lathan and Rachel Lindsay? Nope, it was Flying Coach with Steve Kerr, Pete Carroll, and special guest Greg Popovich. Because when you really want to know what's going on with black people in this country, you need to listen to three old white guys who supervise them.
 

Kenny F'ing Powers

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At the risk of adding fuel to the fire, Simmons brings on DeRay Mckesson, which was decent despite the usual Bill shallowness at points, but then he tacks on the recording of another pod about the subject because he thinks it's so important that he wants to give it extra exposure. Does he choose Larry Wilmore's Black on the Air pod, or Higher Learning, the new pod with Van Lathan and Rachel Lindsay? Nope, it was Flying Coach with Steve Kerr, Pete Carroll, and special guest Greg Popovich. Because when you really want to know what's going on with black people in this country, you need to listen to three old white guys who supervise them.
This seems unfair.

3 old white guys known for supporting African American causes, considered some of the best in their profession, 2 of which - Kerr and Pop - are pretty well versed in black history.

Giving a bunch of white people - the majority of BBs audience - a relatable group of speakers they respect? And they all are emphatic that we all need to shutup and listen?

I dunno. Seems unfair. Had CC Sabathia on today to discuss his view on the riots. Thought it was a great episode.
 

jose melendez

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I don't know that I'd realized what a troglodyte Adam Carolla still was. I hated him from when he'd make jokes at the expense of rape victims on loveline, but I went by his twitter, and he's, if anything, a bigger shithead now. Not sure, it's a great look for Woke Bill to do so much cross promotion with him.
 

Mugsy's Jock

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Had CC Sabathia on today to discuss his view on the riots. Thought it was a great episode.
By all accounts, CC is a great guy -- intelligent, good teammate, socially aware, really involved with charities he supports. That said, as a Red Sox fan, I couldn't suppress the eye roll when he talked about how he was sick and tired of baseball's unwritten rules and the concept of playing the game "the right way". Didn't CC bitch and moan unceasingly about teams bunting on his fat ass when it wasn't something called for "by the book"?
 

Kenny F'ing Powers

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By all accounts, CC is a great guy -- intelligent, good teammate, socially aware, really involved with charities he supports. That said, as a Red Sox fan, I couldn't suppress the eye roll when he talked about how he was sick and tired of baseball's unwritten rules and the concept of playing the game "the right way". Didn't CC bitch and moan unceasingly about teams bunting on his fat ass when it wasn't something called for "by the book"?
Yeah. Hes a tough interview. If you ask him pointed questions, you get genuine answers. But in a conversational format, he basically just agrees with everything. The "by the book" thing was prompted by Simmons. Maybe that's really how he feels, I'm not sure. But there wasnt a single thing CC disagreed with, so im not sure what his real feelings on some of that shit actually is.
 

CaptainLaddie

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I don't know that I'd realized what a troglodyte Adam Carolla still was. I hated him from when he'd make jokes at the expense of rape victims on loveline, but I went by his twitter, and he's, if anything, a bigger shithead now. Not sure, it's a great look for Woke Bill to do so much cross promotion with him.
Yeah man, he's bad. He does stuff with PragerU. It's.... it sucks how bad he sucks.
 

jose melendez

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Yeah man, he's bad. He does stuff with PragerU. It's.... it sucks how bad he sucks.

I kind of always hated him--and frankly I hated Kimmel for a long time too--they can argue the man show was clever satire on masculinity all they want, but I know what I saw. In fariness, Kimmel has actually grown as a human being over the last 20 years. Carolla, if anything, has regressed.
 

luckiestman

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I kind of always hated him--and frankly I hated Kimmel for a long time too--they can argue the man show was clever satire on masculinity all they want, but I know what I saw. In fariness, Kimmel has actually grown as a human being over the last 20 years. Carolla, if anything, has regressed.
Or Kimmel sold out to be a network superstar. Hard to know when the paycheck depends on being a certain way.
 

johnmd20

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At the risk of adding fuel to the fire, Simmons brings on DeRay Mckesson, which was decent despite the usual Bill shallowness at points, but then he tacks on the recording of another pod about the subject because he thinks it's so important that he wants to give it extra exposure. Does he choose Larry Wilmore's Black on the Air pod, or Higher Learning, the new pod with Van Lathan and Rachel Lindsay? Nope, it was Flying Coach with Steve Kerr, Pete Carroll, and special guest Greg Popovich. Because when you really want to know what's going on with black people in this country, you need to listen to three old white guys who supervise them.
This is very uncharitable. The Kerr, Pop, and Carroll discussion was excellent.

Wilmore has his own podcast feed and he issued a short pod this week, detailing some quick thoughs. Lathan and Linday also have their own pod that just started and is getting promoted on every Ringer podcast.

Damned if you do, damned if you don't.
 

JCizzle

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Of course it is this. I mean he has to be WOKE or else he never gets guests.
I dunno. You're not wrong, but the stuff about his son seemed to be truly from his heart. I believe myself that he's grown since his early days (as has Simmons), but I certainly wouldn't fault anyone for having a cynical perspective.
 

Kliq

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This is very uncharitable. The Kerr, Pop, and Carroll discussion was excellent.

Wilmore has his own podcast feed and he issued a short pod this week, detailing some quick thoughs. Lathan and Linday also have their own pod that just started and is getting promoted on every Ringer podcast.

Damned if you do, damned if you don't.
Having three old white guys talk about their experience working with young black men and how their views and perspectives have changed is actually what a lot of older white men need to hear.
 

Cellar-Door

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This is very uncharitable. The Kerr, Pop, and Carroll discussion was excellent.

Wilmore has his own podcast feed and he issued a short pod this week, detailing some quick thoughs. Lathan and Linday also have their own pod that just started and is getting promoted on every Ringer podcast.

Damned if you do, damned if you don't.
My only issue with flying coach is that while Pop and Kerr are long time active supporters of a lot of causes, Pete Carroll is by all account 100% a phony who was pretty clearly on the wrong side on Kaepernik (invited him for an interview, then cancelled when Kaep wouldn't promise not to kneel if signed) and his interactions with Sherman, Bennett and others have a racial undertone. Add in that he's a right wing nut who is not only a 9-11 truther, but also brought Jordan fucking Peterson in to speak to the team.
 

Foxy42

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After the Sabathia pod, Bill said he was unsure if him and Russillo would be doing their weekly Sunday night pod this week. So far, it seems they have not. Disappointing.
 

JCizzle

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After the Sabathia pod, Bill said he was unsure if him and Russillo would be doing their weekly Sunday night pod this week. So far, it seems they have not. Disappointing.
Russillo also only put out one podcast last week rather than the normal two. I imagine there's some shit going down behind the scenes.
 

Sir Lancelotti

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Really enjoyed the "Say Anything" Rewatchables, Judd Apatow was one of the better guests they have on the pod.

Beyond painful to hear Bill lamenting that he wanted to hear Fugazi on the soundtrack, not even Chris Ryan could placate him on that blatant transparent attempt to establish some indie street cred.
 

Bozo Texino

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Really enjoyed the "Say Anything" Rewatchables, Judd Apatow was one of the better guests they have on the pod.

Beyond painful to hear Bill lamenting that he wanted to hear Fugazi on the soundtrack, not even Chris Ryan could placate him on that blatant transparent attempt to establish some indie street cred.
I'd wager Simmons' first encounter with anything related to Fugazi was Eddie Vedder's scribbling of the band's name on his arm during promotional photos for Ten...

...two years after Say Anything was released.

Bill, you're worth over $100 million. Stop trying so fucking hard.
 

Kliq

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I swear we have had a Fugazi/Simmons conversation on this board a few years ago...
 

jon abbey

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I’d be willing to bet a lot of money that Bill’s first thought on hearing the word ‘Fugazi’ is ‘Tim Thomas’.
 

Marciano490

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I swear we have had a Fugazi/Simmons conversation on this board a few years ago...
Yes it wasn’t too long ago even. Something about Bill not grasping how DIY Fugazi was. I can’t remember the exact context but he had clearly never heard of them or the way they eschewed merchandizing and kept ticket sales down and didn’t take big signing bonuses from record labels and I think he was trying to compare a band he liked to them. Which is cool, because Fugazi has a ton of songs and none of them are called Merchandise.
 

luckiestman

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I'd wager Simmons' first encounter with anything related to Fugazi was Eddie Vedder's scribbling of the band's name on his arm during promotional photos for Ten...

...two years after Say Anything was released.

Bill, you're worth over $100 million. Stop trying so fucking hard.

NO NO NO! That's always good for a laugh. Sometimes I swear you guys only want to listen to robots spout factoids or express opinions you agree with. I want the tension of Billy trying to be cool and being able to hear Chris Ryan's eyes glaze over through only audio.
 

CarolinaBeerGuy

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Yes it wasn’t too long ago even. Something about Bill not grasping how DIY Fugazi was. I can’t remember the exact context but he had clearly never heard of them or the way they eschewed merchandizing and kept ticket sales down and didn’t take big signing bonuses from record labels and I think he was trying to compare a band he liked to them. Which is cool, because Fugazi has a ton of songs and none of them are called Merchandise.
I thought it was much further back, but it was actually in January of this year. It was him comparing REM and Fugazi.

 

Marciano490

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I thought it was much further back, but it was actually in January of this year. It was him comparing REM and Fugazi.

In your and Kliq’s defense, January was a really, really long time ago this year.
 

CarolinaBeerGuy

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Small comment about today’s draft recap podcast: 14% body fat (Marcus Williams) may be a bit high for an NBA PG, but comparing it to Joe House’s size after eating at Momofuku? Come on, Bill.
 

Kliq

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Small comment about today’s draft recap podcast: 14% body fat (Marcus Williams) may be a bit high for an NBA PG, but comparing it to Joe House’s size after eating at Momofuku? Come on, Bill.
Bill said that was House's BMI in college. Then Chris Ryan said it was after House was at Momofuku, so it wasn't even Bill who said that.
 

luckiestman

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Bill said that was House's BMI in college. Then Chris Ryan said it was after House was at Momofuku, so it wasn't even Bill who said that.
That’s hilarious. How is that something to take offense to?
 
I'm kinda fascinated by the first 20 minutes of Simmons' latest podcast, in which he discusses the state of the NBA and whether or not the players will - and should - resume the season after all in light of the latest behind-the-scenes maneuvering. I say that for two reasons:

1) Simmons compared the current political landscape to the situation after MLK was assassinated in 1968, the day before the NBA Conference Finals were scheduled to (and eventually did) take place, and said that while he thinks the season will resume after everyone talks through the issues for at least a few more days, he'd be totally fine if the players stood up for what they believe and decided to opt out for political reasons. I'm really curious about a) whether this would have been his take two weeks ago, before his calamitous podcast with Russillo; b) how much his opinions have shifted in the wake of the last several weeks, both in the world and in his world; and c) the extent to which he maybe feels like this now *has* to be his take, as an apologia for what he was party to before.

(For the record, I think his take is a perfectly reasonable one for anyone in his position to have. But if you look at the Port Cellar, the tendency has been to bash Kyrie for leading a political charge he shouldn't be leading...and given Simmons' opinions about Kyrie, I suspect he'd love to be on that corner as well but feels like he can't be, given everything else that's going on.)

2) Russillo was absolutely nowhere to be seen at the start of the podcast - he comes in for the 2007 Redraftables segment and moves straight into that, with no input asked for or delivered on the political side of the equation. I wonder if Russillo asked to not be put in a position to talk about politics (at least for a while), and/or if Simmons has put Russillo into the political penalty box for a while. Their conversations tend to be the best when they are free-flowing and occasionally touch on mature subjects, to borrow a phrase, but I feel like it might be a while before they can be as freely flowing as either or both of them might like.
 

Pablo's TB Lover

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1) Simmons compared the current political landscape to the situation after MLK was assassinated in 1968, the day before the NBA Conference Finals were scheduled to (and eventually did) take place, and said that while he thinks the season will resume after everyone talks through the issues for at least a few more days, he'd be totally fine if the players stood up for what they believe and decided to opt out for political reasons. I'm really curious about a) whether this would have been his take two weeks ago, before his calamitous podcast with Russillo; b) how much his opinions have shifted in the wake of the last several weeks, both in the world and in his world; and c) the extent to which he maybe feels like this now *has* to be his take, as an apologia for what he was party to before.

(For the record, I think his take is a perfectly reasonable one for anyone in his position to have. But if you look at the Port Cellar, the tendency has been to bash Kyrie for leading a political charge he shouldn't be leading...and given Simmons' opinions about Kyrie, I suspect he'd love to be on that corner as well but feels like he can't be, given everything else that's going on.)
As someone who bashed Kyrie in the thread, my feelings were to discount his take based on:

1) He's out with injury and from all appearances he won't be playing in the restart. Pretty easy to pooh pooh a finish to the season you aren't playing in.
2) His wild takes from basketball itself (thinking he knows better than CBS what play to run end of game) to off the court (flat earth, anyone?).
3) The quote of his in the Yahoo story was not a very compelling argument of why not playing was better than playing, just a "blow it up, F the man" kind of take: “I don’t support going into Orlando. I’m not with the systematic racism and the bulls***. Something smells a little fishy.”

That said, if enough other players whose opinions I respect (almost anyone other than Kyrie lol) came to the same conclusion, then I would support that. So postponing the season due to BLM isn't a bad take, just the primary messenger is suspect.