Big & Tall Shopping for a New Center

lovegtm

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Apr 30, 2013
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We've been discussing a possible upgrade at backup C in a lot of other threads, so figured I'd pull it together here.

Not that it would ever happen, but if Collins was offered for Horford straight-up WWBD?

is it possible that Collins is in decline at 25? and Horford is gaining value at 36?
I wouldn't, and it's because having Al's $26.5M coming off next year creates some "tax space" for the Celtics to use. I don't think that filling that space with Collins given the other ways that space could be filled:

$11M: give Grant Williams a raise to $15M from his current $4m
$6-8M: acquire Poeltl (or similar) and pay him $15-17M on his next deal
$5-10M: backup wing depth or re-sign Horford himself

Horford has made $265M to date, so I can imagine him taking a large pay cut to enjoy the rest of his career and go for a title.

Targets at C
  • Poeltl. Watch these defensive highlights and tell me you don't want to see him playing the drop along with Cs perimeter guys. Would give the Cs a peak Brook Lopez interior D.
  • Wendell Carter Jr. Probably not gettable, but if you're trading a 1st, gotta ask. Orlando is a low-key interesting landing spot for PP given their desperate need for guard shooting, and the size in the rest of the lineup.
  • idk man, give me some names
Horford coming off the books opens up real budget options at C. The Celtics could pay TL + other guy ~$25-28M and have an elite C rotation, with the ability to handle injury. If Horford comes back cheap, it's a hugely plus frontcourt at a decent price.
 

benhogan

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Nov 2, 2007
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It's not even so much an "upgrade" because a healthy TL/Al are an excellent 5 combo. It's more like playoff INSURANCE. If either TL/Al goes down CJM may start leaning on the other too much, and then you may break both. Luke is a fine regular-season 3rd string stopgap. CJM probably inches his regular-season minutes up against the beefier Centers to protect Al, which works. Brad should be patient, he really needs to see how the sellers operate. It feels like a lot of teams are underperforming and we could see some blockbuster deals where 5s are salary ballast and then let go.

Any addition would require keeping an eye on future salary obligations, as noted keeping/matching Grant in RFA and retaining Al should be in the cards next summer. Brad's three deals where he has used a late 1st (Horford, White, Brogdon) have been excellent on many levels. So I'd kind of like Brad to hold off a bit there since he gets so much mileage out of using them

Both WCJ or Poeltl would be great, probably keep a casual eye on BolBol/Bassey to see if those teams would ever be somewhat motivated to deal WCJ/Poeltl
1. Poeltl
2. Vanderbilt
3. Noel - buyout?
4. Gafford - why are his minutes down so much? ugh he broke the 20-minute mark last night
5. Theis- buyout? are we restricted if the trade happened in the Summer. Is that considered last season?
6. Mo Bamba - have they bought into Bol Bol?
Vanderbilt, Noel, Gafford, Bamba are worth keeping tabs on over the next few months

Others to ponder: Maxi Kleber, PJ Washington, Nik Claxton, Jericho Sims, Naz Reid, Mason Plumlee, Thomas Bryant, Jeremiah Robison-Earl, Darius Bazley, Mike Muscala

I think most fit $$$ wise.
 

PRabbit

New Member
Apr 3, 2022
116
It all depends, would Brad and Joe prefer 2 BIGZ when Timelord is back? Or does the guard and wing depth negate that?

AL and TL on 25-28ish MPG should be more than fine with Kornet/Blake/whoever giving spot minutes if not.

Honestly, whatever is cheapest.
 
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DavidTai

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Dec 18, 2003
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I feel like we're in more of a need for someone who can back up/rest Tatum, so a big wing that can guard 5's without huge issues would be good, rather than a pure center.

I think it was benhogan who said that the guys I'd want in this position would be Vanderbilt and PJ Washington, but there's gotta be some more that fits that mold.
 

PedroKsBambino

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Apr 17, 2003
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I feel like we're in more of a need for someone who can back up/rest Tatum, so a big wing that can guard 5's without huge issues would be good, rather than a pure center.

I think it was benhogan who said that the guys I'd want in this position would be Vanderbilt and PJ Washington, but there's gotta be some more that fits that mold.
I personally think he's too similar to Grant, but you could make the case Jae Crowder can fit the above and he's eminently available.
 

Swedgin

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Jun 27, 2013
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Richaun Holmes has fallen out of Mike Brown's rotation in Sacramento. Can't claim to have watched much in the way of Kings basketball this year. He's signed for two more years after this at around 12M. I assume he would not cost anything. If anything maybe you get back some seconds for taking on that contract.

His salary is high enough that you would have to add another player to Gallo and PP to match - no idea how the Kings feel about the guys on the back end of their roster and whether a 3 for 1 is feasible. Another consideration, adding 12M in salary to next the books for the next two years comes with a significant luxury tax hit.
 

Swedgin

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Jun 27, 2013
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Problem is this would need to be a 3 team for sure. PHO isn't looking for picks
Not advocating for Crowder, but if you wanted him and needed a third team, Houston and Eric Gordon would seem like a good fit for Phoenix. The Suns could send Saric out to Houston to keep their tax bill neutral-ish.
 

Auger34

used to be tbb
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Apr 23, 2010
9,271
We've been discussing a possible upgrade at backup C in a lot of other threads, so figured I'd pull it together here.



I wouldn't, and it's because having Al's $26.5M coming off next year creates some "tax space" for the Celtics to use. I don't think that filling that space with Collins given the other ways that space could be filled:

$11M: give Grant Williams a raise to $15M from his current $4m
$6-8M: acquire Poeltl (or similar) and pay him $15-17M on his next deal
$5-10M: backup wing depth or re-sign Horford himself

Horford has made $265M to date, so I can imagine him taking a large pay cut to enjoy the rest of his career and go for a title.

Targets at C
  • Poeltl. Watch these defensive highlights and tell me you don't want to see him playing the drop along with Cs perimeter guys. Would give the Cs a peak Brook Lopez interior D.
  • Wendell Carter Jr. Probably not gettable, but if you're trading a 1st, gotta ask. Orlando is a low-key interesting landing spot for PP given their desperate need for guard shooting, and the size in the rest of the lineup.
  • idk man, give me some names
Horford coming off the books opens up real budget options at C. The Celtics could pay TL + other guy ~$25-28M and have an elite C rotation, with the ability to handle injury. If Horford comes back cheap, it's a hugely plus frontcourt at a decent price.
I’ve been beating the Wendell Carter drum for 2 years now and I think he’s the closest thing to Horford that the team could realistically acquire. That’s my dream trade candidate but I’m not sure the Magic would trade him. I’d go as far as offering 2 1sts, PP, and filler (similar to the Derrick White package).
This would allow you to slide Grant into more of that “big wing” role to give Tatum more rest in addition to having the ability to basically wrap Horford and Rob in bubble wrap until the playoffs

A top 10 of Smart/Jaylen/Tatum/Horford/TL/White/Brogdon/WCJ/Grant/Hauser is absolutely filthy
 

benhogan

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Nov 2, 2007
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Richaun Holmes has fallen out of Mike Brown's rotation in Sacramento. Can't claim to have watched much in the way of Kings basketball this year. He's signed for two more years after this at around 12M. I assume he would not cost anything. If anything maybe you get back some seconds for taking on that contract.

His salary is high enough that you would have to add another player to Gallo and PP to match - no idea how the Kings feel about the guys on the back end of their roster and whether a 3 for 1 is feasible. Another consideration, adding 12M in salary to next the books for the next two years comes with a significant luxury tax hit.
Holmes has been mentioned in the past, but @HomeRunBaker is pretty convinced RH is terrible. I don't follow the Kings enough (thank god) to weigh-in, but HRB is pretty good on the off-the-run guys since he usually has action across the board

Cheap, Defense first 5 is what this team really needs.

Not a great headline:

https://nba.nbcsports.com/2022/05/13/after-being-accused-by-ex-wife-of-domestic-violence-toward-son-kings-richaun-holmes-gains-custody-of-son/
 

HomeRunBaker

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Jan 15, 2004
30,096
Holmes has been mentioned in the past, but @HomeRunBaker is pretty convinced RH is terrible. I don't follow the Kings enough (thank god) to weigh-in, but HRB is pretty good on the off-the-run guys since he usually has action across the board

Cheap, Defense first 5 is what this team really needs.

Not a great headline:

https://nba.nbcsports.com/2022/05/13/after-being-accused-by-ex-wife-of-domestic-violence-toward-son-kings-richaun-holmes-gains-custody-of-son/
Holmes is beyond awful, not an upgrade over Kornet, and likely out of the league soon. Even when he was handed minutes on terrible teams and putting up numbers by default his understanding of the game is that of my niece.

End rant.
 

ugmo33

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May 6, 2016
165
If the team keeps playing like they are and no more injuries to the bigs, I think they'll look for an upgrade at the margins rather than a Horford replacement. Plus Poeltl is going to be the most sought big on the market and I bet his price will be higher than we want to pay for an expiring contract. My guess is Vanderbilt is the most likely target. Great defender and rebounder for his size. Can't shoot so it might hard to play him alongside TL but he's cheap and, assuming the Jazz go into tank mode, should be gettable
 

benhogan

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Nov 2, 2007
20,111
Santa Monica
Any interest in Jaxson Hayes? He was OK last season (did he have off-the-court issues?)

Salary: $6,803,012

Trade eligible: Now

Hayes looked like a productive player last season when he started at power forward and helped the Pelicans sneak into the playoffs. However, the return of Zion Williamson has completely eliminated him from the rotation considering how deep the roster is. This could also be to favor smaller bench lineups to give a Pelicans team that already is at the bottom in three-point attempts as much shooting as possible.

Hayes is set to enter restricted free agency this offseason but his future in New Orleans is doubtful considering he’s already not playing and they’re already set to be taxpayers next season. He serves as a good third big-man option but he could be a trade candidate as we get closer to the deadline.
 

HomeRunBaker

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Jan 15, 2004
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Domestic violence, resisting arrest, assault & battery on a police officer. If we were a lottery team looking to take a flier on upside maybe you could make a case but we are looking for a veteran who understands the game and his role. The last thing we need is a young kid who we have to teach how to play on the court as well as how to live off it.
 

lovegtm

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Apr 30, 2013
11,996
I’ve been beating the Wendell Carter drum for 2 years now and I think he’s the closest thing to Horford that the team could realistically acquire. That’s my dream trade candidate but I’m not sure the Magic would trade him. I’d go as far as offering 2 1sts, PP, and filler (similar to the Derrick White package).
This would allow you to slide Grant into more of that “big wing” role to give Tatum more rest in addition to having the ability to basically wrap Horford and Rob in bubble wrap until the playoffs

A top 10 of Smart/Jaylen/Tatum/Horford/TL/White/Brogdon/WCJ/Grant/Hauser is absolutely filthy
I can't go 2 1sts for anyone who's not a star, simply because it takes away the ability to deal 1sts in other trades (Stepien rule). Celtics already can't trade a pick until 2025 (that ends after the draft).