Betts/Price to LA for Verdugo/Jeter Downs/TBA

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pappymojo

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Because I still want to buy your house, even though the toilets dont work right now. And you want to sell it. What will you do to keep me in the deal. The Sox want to make a deal. LA wants to make a deal.
Seems like a very appropriate comparison.
 

DeadlySplitter

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the problem is a "strong" motivation on our end was shedding payroll, Passan said as such here


if the trade unravels, what do we do now? we might be stuck holding the bag.
 

jon abbey

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the problem is a "strong" motivation on our end was shedding payroll, Passan said as such here
Yep, this is why the Padres rumors never made too much sense except to push the Dodgers, SD didn't want Price and wanted to send Myers back to balance the payroll hit some.
 

amRadio

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Seems like a very appropriate comparison.
I feel like the toilets not working doesn't go here. This is more like if a house you were purchasing would require 100K in reno before it could be certified safe for occupancy and you found out during the walk through, day of closing. There has to be some sort of concession on the LAD end. The media folks referring to this as a minor hiccup likely don't view Graterol as the centerpiece like many posters here do.
 

Salem's Lot

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I think the problem is no one else is going to take on $43M of salary for Betts/Price at this point of the offseason, and it's risky for BOS to wait until midseason because there's no guarantee any team besides LAD will be able to do it then either.
Or they could just pay the money this year, try to contend, then reset the tax next year after Betts walks instead of trading a year of Betts for two injured guys, one of whom has a “questionable” past.
 

OCD SS

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Or it means the alternative wasn't as attractive and they can use that money for another player
There's not going to be another player worth spending the money on at this point. If the primary motivation of the deal is about getting under the CBT limit, goal 1A as to be to add young cost controlled talent that will be valuable going forward. Even paying half of Price's contract they're now well under the goal for #1, so they need to use this opportunity to buy that talent; it's basically the only way left open to flex financial muscle to add cost controlled players.
 

JM3

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If I had to guess, I'd say the Red Sox are planning to protest Verdugo's physical for purposes of negotiating an additional A-ball flyer or 2 & then roll over. No one is making me guess, though, so I won't.
Ugg, picked the wrong guy. This makes more sense, though.

Get all of LA super excited & betting on the Dodgers to win the World Series & then pull out the rug for a better haul. Playing 5D checkers.
 

MartyBC

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Yep. Told my 7-year old this morning. His eyes went wide and he asked me, "who did we get?" And that's where it went bad. Then we had a long talk about free agency and Curt Flood and arbitration and team control and the salary cap. I think he got it intellectually, which actually surprised me since he still laughs really hard when I fart and blame it on his baby sister.

No tears. I think kids will just have to get used to this as the new world order. Clemens leaving really felt like the exception when I was 12. This is just the way it is now. I told him we root for the laundry and I'll still buy us the MLB.tv package.

But he did swap out the Mookie card that has always been tucked into the plastic on the binding of his baseball card album for a Xander.
The kid gets it! Its us adults having trouble with it. Great story. Just made me think of bubble gum and the excitement of opening a new pack of baseball cards. And then cursing the baseball gods cuz you now have 5 Bob Montgomery cards. How does that even happen???
 

bankshot1

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When the public perception is that you sold for 50 cents on the dollar, and then you find out one and perhaps two of the quarters are counterfeit, there is little pressure to shrug your shoulders and pocket the slugs.

LAD sweetens this trade to get it done for $0.60,
 

dhappy42

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At this point, I think the Dodgers are in a worse position than the Red Sox. Dodgers fans were expecting them to mess this up in the days leading up to the announcement. Red Sox fans are upset that the trade is happening so if it unravels that will be viewed as a positive for them.
True, but fan sentiment has very little to do with how this sorts out.
 

manny

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When the public perception is that you sold for 50 cents on the dollar, and then you find out one and perhaps two of the quarters are counterfeit, there is little pressure to shrug your shoulders and pocket the slugs.

LAD sweetens this trade to get it done for $0.60,
This is not even specific to this trade but isn't the Sox return almost by definition the trade value of Mookie and Price? They've been trying to trade both all offseason, possibly even dating back to last season, and this presumably is the best (or at least near best) offer they got. I assume there were not many other offers out there, let alone better ones. You can quibble over the quality of the return pieces but I feel like aside from absolute fleecings all trades are generally $0.90-$1.10 on the dollar. I understand the disappointment (myself included) that this is the best they could get, but it seems to be what the value of Mookie and Price are right now.
 

joe dokes

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Or they could just pay the money this year, try to contend, then reset the tax next year after Betts walks instead of trading a year of Betts for two injured guys, one of whom has a “questionable” past.
Wouldn't that eliminate any possibility of signing a big FA after 2020 (including Betts), in addition to lowering the value of the comp pick they might get if Mookie signs elsewhere.
 

Salem's Lot

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True, but fan sentiment has very little to do with how this sorts out.
If they take this deal as is, and then the entire fan base will know it was a straight salary dump and it’ll end up costing them millions of dollars in ad revenue on NESN and at the gate. They need to get another piece to save face or squash the deal.
 

joe dokes

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I feel like the toilets not working doesn't go here. This is more like if a house you were purchasing would require 100K in reno before it could be certified safe for occupancy and you found out during the walk through, day of closing. There has to be some sort of concession on the LAD end. The media folks referring to this as a minor hiccup likely don't view Graterol as the centerpiece like many posters here do.
I was being flip, but the point stands. Both teams want to make a deal. One side (LA via Min) may have handed over lees-valuable goods than originally thopught, so its up to them to make it good. Neither side wants to walk away.
 

joe dokes

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If they take this deal as is, and then the entire fan base will know it was a straight salary dump and it’ll end up costing them millions of dollars in ad revenue on NESN and at the gate. They need to get another piece to save face or squash the deal.
I was assuming they were getting something else. FWIW-- I'm also assuming that every sentient observer already knows this was primarily about salary and the (not a) cap.
 

JimD

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The Heyman tweet is idiotic. Every year, we see players have breakout performances because their original team had no idea what they had or how to properly utilize them. Cashman has been making a killing the last few years finding those guys, as have the Rays. It's one thing to identify a player that you think could be significantly better in a different role, proper usage, etc., it's another matter entirely when the medicals show that there may be an unforeseen health concern.

I also wonder what Falvey and the Twins let on to the Dodgers (and by extension, the Red Sox) about Brusdar's actual condition. Not a good look for them if they were trying to pass on knowingly damaged goods.
 

Salem's Lot

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Wouldn't that eliminate any possibility of signing a big FA after 2020 (including Betts), in addition to lowering the value of the comp pick they might get if Mookie signs elsewhere.
They look to be going into a rebuild in 2021 regardless of if they make this trade or not. Why not have one more year of attempting to compete with Betts instead of trading him for a scumbag with a back injury and a fat reliever with a bad shoulder. If they’re out of it at the deadline, they can trade Betts for better than that.
 

bankshot1

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This is not even specific to this trade but isn't the Sox return almost by definition the trade value of Mookie and Price? They've been trying to trade both all offseason, possibly even dating back to last season, and this presumably is the best (or at least near best) offer they got. I assume there were not many other offers out there, let alone better ones. You can quibble over the quality of the return pieces but I feel like aside from absolute fleecings all trades are generally $0.90-$1.10 on the dollar. I understand the disappointment (myself included) that this is the best they could get, but it seems to be what the value of Mookie and Price are right now.
The market is what the market is. But if Verdugo and Grat is the best the Sox could get for Mookie and Price, then perhaps the Sox should uncouple the package.

It seems Price is overvalued at 3/96 so but at 3/48 he's worth prospects.

Mookie is arguably the 2nd best player in baseball, he's worth something of value even as a 1 year rental.

the kicker here that is dragging the deal down for the Sox is the perception they have to sell for financial reasons.

if this can't get sweetened, walk away and revisit this mid-season.
 
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Dewey'sCannon

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I've maintained all along that the Sox need to get a near MLB-ready SP prospect back in the deal. Initially, it looked like whether Graterol's future was as a SP or a elite reliever was still somewhat open, with may evaluators thinking he's probably end up as a reliever, but the Sox apparently thinking he could still be a starter - which he was as recently as a year ago. But if the medicals are now changing that calculus, and making it plainly evident that he's not going to be a SP for the foreseeable future, then I definitely thinks this changes the acceptability of the package for the Red Sox. And probably enough that it can't be fixed by just adding another player to the existing package.
 

JM3

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If they take this deal as is, and then the entire fan base will know it was a straight salary dump and it’ll end up costing them millions of dollars in ad revenue on NESN and at the gate. They need to get another piece to save face or squash the deal.
If they don't make a trade, it will cost them more millions, & make them significantly worse for years to come.
 

jon abbey

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I've maintained all along that the Sox need to get a near MLB-ready SP prospect back in the deal. Initially, it looked like whether Graterol's future was as a SP or a elite reliever was still somewhat open, with may evaluators thinking he's probably end up as a reliever, but the Sox apparently thinking he could still be a starter - which he was as recently as a year ago. But if the medicals are now changing that calculus, and making it plainly evident that he's not going to be a SP for the foreseeable future, then I definitely thinks this changes the acceptability of the package for the Red Sox. And probably enough that it can't be fixed by just adding another player to the existing package.
I don't know so much about Gonsolin, but it might make sense for LAD to cancel the MIN part of the deal, keep Maeda themselves (although he will not be happy as he wants to go elsewhere so he can stay in the rotation and hit some of his incentives), and replace Graterol with Gonsolin.
 

StuckOnYouk

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The pressure is not in us to finish this, it's mostly on L.A. to make this trade work.
The entire world is lauding them for making this trade and not giving up serious prospects (outside of Verdugo), and their fanbase is on cloud 9.
Worst case scenario we go into major trade mode in July with any veteran who is healthy and save money that way while also getting any prospects we can.
It's not like we got a top 10 prospect in this trade we would be losing.
 

Captaincoop

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Because I still want to buy your house, even though the toilets dont work right now. And you want to sell it. What will you do to keep me in the deal. The Sox want to make a deal. LA wants to make a deal.
LA: It's not our fault the toilet doesn't work, you're the one who's trying to flush your 2020 season down it.
 

Tyrone Biggums

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I don't know so much about Gonsolin, but it might make sense for LAD to cancel the MIN part of the deal, keep Maeda themselves (although he will not be happy as he wants to go elsewhere so he can stay in the rotation and hit some of his incentives), and replace Graterol with Gonsolin.
Gonsolin would in theory have to come with someone like Downs. Graterol is a higher regarded prospect. Well at least before last night. But I highly doubt LA will add anyone of value. They'll probably just take 2/3rds of David Prices contract and call it a day. Everyone other than the fanbase wins.
 
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The pressure is not in us to finish this, it's mostly on L.A. to make this trade work.
The entire world is lauding them for making this trade and not giving up serious prospects (outside of Verdugo), and their fanbase is on cloud 9.
Worst case scenario we go into major trade mode in July with any veteran who is healthy and save money that way while also getting any prospects we can.
It's not like we got a top 10 prospect in this trade we would be losing.
Exactly, its ridiculous to put this on Bloom and Boston saying they should've known Graterol was a bullpen arm. We have no idea what the medicals look like and I doubt there's a hold up if everything was clean.
 

Salem's Lot

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Exactly, its ridiculous to put this on Bloom and Boston saying they should've known Graterol was a bullpen arm. We have no idea what the medicals look like and I doubt there's a hold up if everything was clean.
This. It’s why trades are contingent on medical checks in the first place.
 

amRadio

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Gonsolin would in theory have to come with someone like Downs. Graterol is a higher regarded prospect. Well at least before last night. But I highly doubt LA will add anyone of value. They'll probably just take 2/3rds of David Prices contract and call it a day. Everyone other than the fanbase wins.
Would he? I believe Gonsolin still has six years of control. I don't know what caused him to reach the upper minors and majors so late, but he has good results at every level he's pitched at. If there is a surgery or something I'm unaware of then maybe you know more about this than me. On the surface, if we were to get Gonsolin out of this, the difference between Gonsolin and the previous perception of Brusdar isn't so large it would require someone like Downs. If Gonsolin and the 3B they drafted last year came along - Hoese? I think - that would be a tiny spark of goodness from our boy Chaim.
 

bohous

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Josiah Gray is maybe a better Graterol replacement than Gonsolin.
Except that Gonsolin can be plugged right into the rotation. Gray has yet to pitch above AA.

What's protocol with medical reports? Wouldn't they have exchanged medicals before announcing the deal?
 

Patek's 3 Dingers

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The market is what the market is. But if Verdugo and Grat is the best the Sox could get for Mookie and Price, then perhaps the Sox should uncouple the package.

It seems Price is overvalued at 3/96 so but at 3/48 he's worth prospects.

Mookie is arguably the 2nd best player in baseball, he's worth something of value even as a 1 year rental.

the kicker here that is dragging the deal down for the Sox is the perception they have to sell for financial reasons.

if this can't get sweetened, walk away and revisit this mid-season.
I don't believe Boston can just walk away. As I posted before, it's likely the Sox were provided with extensive medical information and unless they find some conditions that weren't disclosed, they can't break the deal. A team isn't going to spend weeks negotiating a deal and give the other side an easy out if they change their minds.
 

Red(s)HawksFan

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Except that Gonsolin can be plugged right into the rotation. Gray has yet to pitch above AA.

What's protocol with medical reports? Wouldn't they have exchanged medicals before announcing the deal?
They did. There's been no announcements of a deal. It's all been media reports and leaks...nothing from any of the teams.
 

E5 Yaz

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The Heyman tweet is idiotic.
Heyman's the type of guy who'd tweet that, based his first season with the Red Sox, it should have been clear that Luis Tiant was washed up
 

pjr

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Except that Gonsolin can be plugged right into the rotation. Gray has yet to pitch above AA.

What's protocol with medical reports? Wouldn't they have exchanged medicals before announcing the deal?
No team involved has made an announcement .
 

Green Monster

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Any idea if the issue is with the review of documented medical records or if a Red Sox physician has examined him??
 

nighthob

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I don't believe Boston can just walk away. As I posted before, it's likely the Sox were provided with extensive medical information and unless they find some conditions that weren't disclosed, they can't break the deal. A team isn't going to spend weeks negotiating a deal and give the other side an easy out if they change their minds.
Deals are contingent on medicals, the trade still hasn't had any paperwork filed, which is why the medicals are holding it up.
 

Shaky Walton

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The smear campaigns seem to have ended after Lucchino left the team and The Dentist followed him out the door.
Perhaps. But I don't recall anyone other than Tito getting bad press on the way out during the Henry ownership era.
 

nighthob

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I had thought earlier that Ross Stripling was going to be part of the package coming to us.... MLB-ready starting pitcher who doesn't become a free agent till 2023. However, he was in the Pederson deal, but maybe now he's not? Maybe Gonsolin, Verdugo AND Stripling?
Given how much more the Angels got for a reserve MI prospect, any way that Boston could just add Lin to the deal to grab Stripling and Pages for using their new found luxury tax cushion to take Pederson (after LA agrees to pick up ore of Price's deal)?
 

brandonchristensen

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I feel like everyone getting excited about a different package coming back are about to be disappointed.

Though this does have a little feeling like Millar is about to go on TV saying how he wants Verdugo over Mookie.
 

bankshot1

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I don't believe Boston can just walk away. As I posted before, it's likely the Sox were provided with extensive medical information and unless they find some conditions that weren't disclosed, they can't break the deal. A team isn't going to spend weeks negotiating a deal and give the other side an easy out if they change their minds.
You are probably far more versed in reading medical charts and MRIs than I, and likely far more versed in MLB's procedures regarding contestesd trades, but it seems that even if the sox were given medical information that Grat was good to go, if he does not pass the Sox physical, and is in their opinion damaged goods beyond what was disclosed, I would think they are within their rights to negate the deal, or look for additional compsensation.
 

jon abbey

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Given how much more the Angels got for a reserve MI prospect
That full deal has yet to be announced, and it's quite likely that the Angels are giving up a very good prospect as the unannounced player.
 

Coachster

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Given how much more the Angels got for a reserve MI prospect, any way that Boston could just add Lin to the deal to grab Stripling and Pages for using their new found luxury tax cushion to take Pederson (after LA agrees to pick up ore of Price's deal)?
Pederson is a free agent in 2021. According to Cott's, he's also $5 mil a year; maybe a little heavy for our bargain basement leanings.

But I like your thinking.
 

JM3

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There are definitely some iterations that make sense cutting out both the Angels & Twins...

Maybe something like...

Betts/Price (half-subsidized)/Lin

Verdugo/Gray/Stripling/Pederson/random A ball dude?
 

jon abbey

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Pederson is a free agent in 2021. According to Cott's, he's also $5 mil a year; maybe a little heavy for our bargain basement leanings.

But I like your thinking.
You can see a few posts up that Pederson is pricier than that, his arb hearing is today and he will get $7.75M or $9.5M.
 

nighthob

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Pederson is a free agent in 2021. According to Cott's, he's also $5 mil a year; maybe a little heavy for our bargain basement leanings.

But I like your thinking.
Right, a half year rental as Boston deals him at the trade deadline for more prospects to restock the farm system.
 
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