Betts/Price to LA for Alex Verdugo, Jeter Downs, and Connor Wong

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RG33

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Nov 28, 2005
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So, clearly, the Red Sox valued Graterol quite highly as a starting pitcher -- and when they saw his medicals and realized his durability would likely cause him to be a reliever, that value tumbled. At this point, most of SoSH felt that Bloom was an idiot and overmatched by Friedman.

Now, the Sox get Downs and Wong with Verdugo -- so, in effect, two top 50 MLB prospects each with 5 years of control and a valuable C prospect -- and Bloom made a great deal and the Sox are well positioned going forward? These threads have been quite the ride the last week.

Trading Mookie who has clearly demonstrated going to Free Agency was priority #1 resulted in:

- Alex Verdugo, 23 year OF, 5 years of control, .800+ OPS potential
- Jeter Downs, SS/2B, Top 50 MLB prospect, power-hitting middle infielder, 5+ years of control
- Connor Wong, C, solid prospect (#27 in Dodgers system), probably best C prospect now in Sox system (and likely top 10 overall in Sox system)
- Getting out of David Price 3 years, $96 million commitment -- taking on $48 million instead over 3 years
- Getting below the luxury tax line -- saves $$$, draft picks, and international slot signing $
- Roughly $20 million in "cap space" to go after another 1-2 impact players for 2020

I think it is a heckuva deal for all sides, regardless of what Mookie's future contract situation becomes.

To me, these are the types of trades that great franchises make to enable long, sustained runs. On a message board with Boston fans who have witnessed BB and the Pats do this for 20 years, it is surprising how the majority of people have reacted in these threads this week.

Let's play ball!
 

VORP Speed

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Apr 23, 2010
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Absolute home run for Chaim. Moonshot onto the Pike.

Works out pretty well for all parties, though. A bit of an overpay by Friedman but makes sense given their prospect backlog, ability to eat salary and need to get over the hump. Mookie slots in nicely as second best player on the Dodgers. Swapping Downs for Graterol and the comp pick seems like good value and a nice upgrade for Friedman over the original deal. They can afford to take some risk to get a shutdown reliever.

MN gets a solid, affordable SP that they desperately needed and after the truth came out on the medicals, was clear they had their own doubts on Graterol and so ended up fair value for them, too.
 

Hank Scorpio

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Apr 1, 2013
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I am wondering how many people have actually read and thought about what they are saying about this kid. Maybe this is a board full of teatotlers, but if you went to a high school or college party where people got drunk and hooked up but you didn’t intervene then you are a lot closer to Alex Verdugo than you think you are.
I don't think the line between "people getting drunk and hooking up", and "grown adults beating and sexually assaulting a 17 year-old" is an especially thin line.
 

Marciano490

Urological Expert
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Nov 4, 2007
62,312
I am wondering how many people have actually read and thought about what they are saying about this kid. Maybe this is a board full of teatotlers, but if you went to a high school or college party where people got drunk and hooked up but you didn’t intervene then you are a lot closer to Alex Verdugo than you think you are.
Hooked up isn’t the same thing as sexual assault. You can argue Verdugo was an innocent and ignorant bystander, but don’t conflate the two.
 

Tyrone Biggums

nfl meets tri-annually at a secret country mansion
SoSH Member
Aug 15, 2006
6,424
Absolute home run for Chaim. Moonshot onto the Pike.

Works out pretty well for all parties, though. A bit of an overpay by Friedman but makes sense given their prospect backlog, ability to eat salary and need to get over the hump. Mookie slots in nicely as second best player on the Dodgers. Swapping Downs for Graterol and the comp pick seems like good value and a nice upgrade for Friedman over the original deal. They can afford to take some risk to get a shutdown reliever.

MN gets a solid, affordable SP that they desperately needed and after the truth came out on the medicals, was clear they had their own doubts on Graterol and so ended up fair value for them, too.
Woah lets not go that far. Its a solid double. Getting a top SP prospect would have been a moon shot. The team that did the best still was LA
 

budcrew08

Member
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Mar 30, 2007
8,558
upstate NY
So, clearly, the Red Sox valued Graterol quite highly as a starting pitcher -- and when they saw his medicals and realized his durability would likely cause him to be a reliever, that value tumbled. At this point, most of SoSH felt that Bloom was an idiot and overmatched by Friedman.

Now, the Sox get Downs and Wong with Verdugo -- so, in effect, two top 50 MLB prospects each with 5 years of control and a valuable C prospect -- and Bloom made a great deal and the Sox are well positioned going forward? These threads have been quite the ride the last week.

Trading Mookie who has clearly demonstrated going to Free Agency was priority #1 resulted in:

- Alex Verdugo, 23 year OF, 5 years of control, .800+ OPS potential
- Jeter Downs, SS/2B, Top 50 MLB prospect, power-hitting middle infielder, 5+ years of control
- Connor Wong, C, solid prospect (#27 in Dodgers system), probably best C prospect now in Sox system (and likely top 10 overall in Sox system)
- Getting out of David Price 3 years, $96 million commitment -- taking on $48 million instead over 3 years
- Getting below the luxury tax line -- saves $$$, draft picks, and international slot signing $
- Roughly $20 million in "cap space" to go after another 1-2 impact players for 2020

I think it is a heckuva deal for all sides, regardless of what Mookie's future contract situation becomes.

To me, these are the types of trades that great franchises make to enable long, sustained runs. On a message board with Boston fans who have witnessed BB and the Pats do this for 20 years, it is surprising how the majority of people have reacted in these threads this week.

Let's play ball!
And don’t forget, the possibility to have a shot at signing Betts to a long term deal next year.
 

joyofsox

empty, bleak
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Jul 14, 2005
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Jeter D Downs. Does anyone know what the D stands for? Here he should use his middle name.
His mother says: "Really his full name is Jeter Deion Downs. I loved Deion Sanders with the Atlanta Braves then, too. So made him Jeter Deion. But he doesn’t like his middle name that much."

He better start liking it!!!

J. Deion Downs? ... J.D. Downs? ... CI Downs?
 

jmm57

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Jul 15, 2005
1,485
Do people really like Downs so much more than pre-medicals Brusdar? Seems like so much hate Thursday night and people generally happier now. But the teams valued Graterol higher, hence the inclusion of Wong.

Anyone flip from disappointed Thursday to happy today?
 

Sox Puppet

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Dec 7, 2016
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Hey, Mookie Betts rehabilitated the name "Mookie" for us so thoroughly that few Bostonians reflexively associate it with Mookie Wilson and 1986.

Who knows, maybe J.D. Downs will help us forget all about Mr. Gift Baskets AND J.D. Drew all at once.
 

staz

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Dec 2, 2004
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The cradle of the game.
Fangraphs hasn't released their Dodgers prospect list this year so that grade (45+) is old. He had a good year and I imagine he'll be a 50. Here's some BP stuff:
FanGraphs has Downs trending up at 50 FV, 'average everyday player' (ETA 2021), and Wong 40+ (ETA 2020) with their 2019 Updated dataset. For comparison, Verdugo was 50FV in both the 209 and 2018 reports after being 55 'above average regular' in the 2017 report.

So, 2.5 useful parts and salary relief for Betts and whatever Price has left.
 

joe dokes

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Jul 18, 2005
30,243
Do people really like Downs so much more than pre-medicals Brusdar? Seems like so much hate Thursday night and people generally happier now. But the teams valued Graterol higher, hence the inclusion of Wong.

Anyone flip from disappointed Thursday to happy today?
The world would be better without "people."
 

P'tucket rhymes with...

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Dec 12, 2006
11,624
The Coney Island of my mind
Do people really like Downs so much more than pre-medicals Brusdar? Seems like so much hate Thursday night and people generally happier now. But the teams valued Graterol higher, hence the inclusion of Wong.

Anyone flip from disappointed Thursday to happy today?
Pre-medical Brusdar is basically a hypothetical created by the Twins FO. The substitutions that do exist don't suck, all things considered.

Also, LA paid $10 million dollars to the Twins for a #47 comp pick to balance out the Maeda/Graterol deal. Friedman will probably turn it into the next Mike Trout, but it's not a cheap bet.
 
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JimD

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Nov 29, 2001
8,681
So much for the narrative that Friedman was schooling his former protege, or that Bloom was merely Henry's puppet. We should be feeling pretty good about our new President of Baseball Ops. He stared down Friedman and didn't budge until he got a fair deal.
 

FredCDobbs

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Feb 5, 2004
563
Austin
Looks like a good-looking kid, so maybe he'll keep the gift basket idea on ice. For real his swing balance looks beautiful in the scouting videos.

I'm very excited about this new deal. Get a catching prospect and a player who looks to have a real shot to be a power-hitting second baseman over an injured reliever? Yes, please.

And let's face it, it we're 10 games out during our Rhymes with Fridge year then we'll have some great pieces to try and restock the farm further, especially with pitchers. And for the Dodgers I love them adding a potential end of the game reliever as their pen has cost them dearly in the playoffs.
 

shepard50

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Nov 18, 2006
8,167
Sydney, Australia
I am wondering how many people have actually read and thought about what they are saying about this kid. Maybe this is a board full of teatotlers, but if you went to a high school or college party where people got drunk and hooked up but you didn’t intervene then you are a lot closer to Alex Verdugo than you think you are.
Nothing in that story is about people getting drunk and hooking up. There is a sexual assault on a nearly passed out woman and a physical assault, (which was taped and put online).

Let's not spin this just because he may be good at baseball and now wears a Sox uniform.



To distinguish him from Derek Jeter, who didn't have any D.
EXCELLENT.
 

Savin Hillbilly

loves the secret sauce
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Jul 10, 2007
18,783
The wrong side of the bridge....
Do people really like Downs so much more than pre-medicals Brusdar? Seems like so much hate Thursday night and people generally happier now. But the teams valued Graterol higher, hence the inclusion of Wong.

Anyone flip from disappointed Thursday to happy today?
I think the higher value for Graterol is a ceiling thing. A kid that age who throws 100 and held his own in a brief MLB stint....the sky kind of seems like the limit until you find out about the medical issues. Downs seems more like the high floor/medium ceiling type. The chances that you'll get at least a fringe regular seem pretty high, but the chances that you'll get a superstar seem pretty low.

Anyway, I don't think SoSH was down on Brusdar before the shoulder thing came to light. On the contrary I think most folks here were varying degrees of stoked.
 

mikeford

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Aug 6, 2006
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St John's, NL
I am wondering how many people have actually read and thought about what they are saying about this kid. Maybe this is a board full of teatotlers, but if you went to a high school or college party where people got drunk and hooked up but you didn’t intervene then you are a lot closer to Alex Verdugo than you think you are.
Yikes.
 

Beomoose

is insoxicated
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May 28, 2006
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I am wondering how many people have actually read and thought about what they are saying about this kid. Maybe this is a board full of teatotlers, but if you went to a high school or college party where people got drunk and hooked up but you didn’t intervene then you are a lot closer to Alex Verdugo than you think you are.
What, and I can't stress this enough, the fuck.
 

BigJimEd

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Jan 4, 2002
4,432
Happy enough with the return I guess. Wasn't expecting much.
I think the week delay helped with fan's expectations. Even though I knew it was coming, still a bit shock to hear the trade last week.



I think the re-worked deal shows a disagreement in medicals. Minnesota threw in a comp B pick.
I don't remember there $10M being in the original deal either though.

Boston probably wasn't very comfortable with Brusdar. LA obviously was more comfortable with it. MN might not see much extra risk.
Doesn't mean any side is trying to pull something over on the other team. Different interpretations and different comfort levels of risk.
 

Yelling At Clouds

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Jul 19, 2005
3,407
Do people really like Downs so much more than pre-medicals Brusdar? Seems like so much hate Thursday night and people generally happier now. But the teams valued Graterol higher, hence the inclusion of Wong.

Anyone flip from disappointed Thursday to happy today?
Downs, who immediately becomes the 2B of the future, makes more sense for the Red Sox as presently constructed than another guy who might be a starter but is more likely a reliever, impressive though the stuff may be. And Wong also provides depth at a shallow position within the organization. Would have been nice to get a starting pitcher out of all of this since the org is thin there too, but Graterol wasn’t going to be that guy.
 

Mugsy's Jock

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Jeter D Downs. Does anyone know what the D stands for? Here he should use his middle name.
Reminds me of the scene from “The Right Stuff” where the NASA PR flacks are trying to convince Virgil I. Grissom that it’s unseemly and unacceptable for him to go by his preferred nickname, “Gus”. Grissom growls that NOBODY calls him “Virgil” and he hates that name.”

”How about your middle name? What does “I” stand for?”

”Ivan.”

”’Gus.’. Yeah, ‘Gus’ could be good.”

On a more important note, how are we to consider the Jeter haiku?
 
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