Betts/Price to LA for Alex Verdugo, Jeter Downs, and Connor Wong

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Harry Hooper

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Bloom has seemingly been running a very tight ship communications-wise, but suddenly now it's the source that the Twins have gotten upset about. It doesn't fit, so the leak/s are probably elsewhere.
 

PhabPhour20

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The butthurt in that comments section is glorious.
I love how they accuse the Sox of dealing in bad faith. As if every leaked trade doesn't have the "pending physicals" clause attached.

It is just sad how rare it is that two teams (heaven forbid three, or four if you add in the Angels) can keep a deal quiet until it is actually completed. Now Stripling and Pederson are likely annoyed, and, had the Dodgers not still traded for him, Graterol's value might have been diminished. Luckily for him he's far enough from free agency to prove his worth himself and only the Twins would have been hurt by the reduction in value.
 

HomeRunBaker

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Makes sense....they thought they had pulled a fast one on Boston, got called out for it, and now have sour grapes over it.
OR.....maybe Bloom pulled a fast one knowing Graterol was a guy they didn’t want but could use his injury history as leverage for a greater return knowing full well the Dodgers couldn’t now back off of acquiring Betts?

I only bring this up because the latter part actually happened. I also believe there is a ton of this shit that goes on behind closed doors in this ruthless business and wouldn’t begrudge Bloom or anyone for using these techniques that are also used against us. That’s the game.
 

DennyDoyle'sBoil

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Why are we assuming that Bloom and the Red Sox leaked this?
Just a WAG on a who does it benefit hunch. It could have been the Dodgers, for sure. Seems a bit less likely but who knows.

You can really only judge the whole thing anyway by knowing the complete timeline which we never will. If it was Boras who originally leaked the deal while the teams were quietly trying to complete their due diligence, he put the Sox in a horrible position and can hardly complain that someone gave a reason why it wasn’t getting done.

We do know that someone leaked the story that the Dodgers supposedly had no problem with Graterol’s medicals. That wouldn’t have been the Sox. Whether that was a countermove or more of the same from the Dodgers trying to negotiate in the press we may never know.

Of course, the bottom line is they didn’t take him either.
 

nvalvo

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Have the Sox emerged from under the penalties for overspending in the international market under Cherington (or was it DD)? Seems like those penalties have at least a good size portion of the pie when looking at why the Sox farm system is so barren today.
Well, the best player they signed in the Cherington binge (Daniel Flores) died of cancer at 17. If we had a 20 y/o two-way catcher tearing up AA right now, our evaluation of Cherington's strategy would be different.
 

Plympton91

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Well, the best player they signed in the Cherington binge (Daniel Flores) died of cancer at 17. If we had a 20 y/o two-way catcher tearing up AA right now, our evaluation of Cherington's strategy would be different.
Flores was the return to spending. Moncada was the trigger for the overspending penalty.

The bigger blight was that they tried to get around the overspending penalties by bundling high value with low value prospects and lost an entire recruiting class while extending the penalties an additional year.
 

nvalvo

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Flores was the return to spending. Moncada was the trigger for the overspending penalty.

The bigger blight was that they tried to get around the overspending penalties by bundling high value with low value prospects and lost an entire recruiting class while extending the penalties an additional year.
Oh, excuse me. Thanks for the correction.
 

VORP Speed

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Agreed. It’s possible may have been some unwritten GM code that Bloom transgressed but it’s hardly a big deal.

The only way the stakes could have been higher for Bloom in trying to execute this trade is if Henry hadn’t paved the way for it before the hire. This way, we know Bloom had to do it, we know it wasn’t his idea, and he did well given the circumstances. If it happened as a shock now, we’d run him out of town.

Now that it’s done, I’m extremely interested to see how he builds a team according to his own ideas and analysis.
Why do you think it wasn’t Bloom’s idea? I’d be shocked if, as part of the interview process, Bloom didn’t lay out exactly how he would approach the big questions facing the club. You think Bloom came in thinking he wanted to throw a $400m+ contract at Mookie and Henry told him not to? That’s just not in his Rays DNA. Friedman didn’t do that in LA and Bloom isn’t going to do it in Boston. I can imagine Henry was probably nodding his head vigorously in agreement the whole time, but Bloom knew the Boston situation inside and out before agreeing to take the position and would not have accepted it without understanding that ownership would support his approach.
 

Trautwein's Degree

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Why do you think it wasn’t Bloom’s idea? I’d be shocked if, as part of the interview process, Bloom didn’t lay out exactly how he would approach the big questions facing the club. You think Bloom came in thinking he wanted to throw a $400m+ contract at Mookie and Henry told him not to? That’s just not in his Rays DNA. Friedman didn’t do that in LA and Bloom isn’t going to do it in Boston. I can imagine Henry was probably nodding his head vigorously in agreement the whole time, but Bloom knew the Boston situation inside and out before agreeing to take the position and would not have accepted it without understanding that ownership would support his approach.
Business talk commonly refers to CEOs as either Wartime CEOs or Peacetime CEOs. Wartime CEOS are brought in when the company has 2 weeks of cash left in its operating account and they have to quickly lay off staff and reorganize. Doing this requires a unique skillset.

Peacetime CEOs are the ones with the skillset necessary to capitalize on a good situation (e.g. Dombrowski). It is very rare for one person to possess both sets of skills. And every business, every industry is cyclical including the Red Sox. Henry is smart enough to know this.
 

chawson

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Why do you think it wasn’t Bloom’s idea? I’d be shocked if, as part of the interview process, Bloom didn’t lay out exactly how he would approach the big questions facing the club. You think Bloom came in thinking he wanted to throw a $400m+ contract at Mookie and Henry told him not to? That’s just not in his Rays DNA. Friedman didn’t do that in LA and Bloom isn’t going to do it in Boston. I can imagine Henry was probably nodding his head vigorously in agreement the whole time, but Bloom knew the Boston situation inside and out before agreeing to take the position and would not have accepted it without understanding that ownership would support his approach.
I think it because Henry made a very public declaration that the team wanted to cut payroll, and he did it before any GM was hired. To me that says Henry was willing to absolve the incoming GM of whatever backlash would result from carrying out that design.

It’s possible Bloom agreed. Certainly they wouldn’t have hired a GM candidate who stridently disagreed. But the most likely scenario is that Bloom saw it as a necessary move for the purposes of roster construction under this CBA, and a terrible one in terms of optics and everything else.
 
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joe dokes

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I think it because Henry made a very public declaration that the team wanted to cut payroll, and he did it before any GM was hired. To me that says he Henry was willing to absolve the incoming GM of whatever backlash would result from carrying out that design.

It’s possible Bloom agreed. Certainly they wouldn’t have hired a GM candidate who stridently disagreed. But the most likely scenario is that Bloom saw it as a necessary move for the purposes of roster construction under this CBA, and a terrible one in terms of optics and everything else.
I suspect that the candidate list included people who had some experience working under some sort of financial constraints. Getting under the tax limit is certainly different than "dont spend any money," but Bloom's experience probably suggested he'd be comfortable with the plan.
 

DeadlySplitter

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lol if the Angels deal falling through keeps this from "official" for another day or two

in any case, medicals are approved, so it's over.
 

E5 Yaz

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Couldn't find it during an exhaustive 8-minute Internet search, but I seem to remember that in the four-team Nomar trade, the Twins were supposed to get a PTBNL from the Red Sox ... and never did, which angered Minnesota as well.

Anyone else remember that?
 

edoug

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Couldn't find it during an exhaustive 8-minute Internet search, but I seem to remember that in the four-team Nomar trade, the Twins were supposed to get a PTBNL from the Red Sox ... and never did, which angered Minnesota as well.

Anyone else remember that?
Yeah, there were a bunch of moving parts and somehow the Twins didn't get the PTBNL. And a lot of Sox fans were upset about losing Matt Murton. Almost as much as Nomar.
 

Tyrone Biggums

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Couldn't find it during an exhaustive 8-minute Internet search, but I seem to remember that in the four-team Nomar trade, the Twins were supposed to get a PTBNL from the Red Sox ... and never did, which angered Minnesota as well.

Anyone else remember that?
I think I remember the Twins getting cash instead
 

OCD SS

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I think I remember the Twins getting cash instead
I just remember Theo’s description of the process, where everyone was throwing players in and out if the pot in the last minutes to get it finalized by the deadline, and the Twins wound up a bit short… I thought the PTBNL/ cash was allowed for later by the Commissioner since the trade was finalized and the players had moved.
 

Captaincoop

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Business talk commonly refers to CEOs as either Wartime CEOs or Peacetime CEOs. Wartime CEOS are brought in when the company has 2 weeks of cash left in its operating account and they have to quickly lay off staff and reorganize. Doing this requires a unique skillset.

Peacetime CEOs are the ones with the skillset necessary to capitalize on a good situation (e.g. Dombrowski). It is very rare for one person to possess both sets of skills. And every business, every industry is cyclical including the Red Sox. Henry is smart enough to know this.
Did you get your MBA at the Corleone School of Business?
 

Minneapolis Millers

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I love how they accuse the Sox of dealing in bad faith. As if every leaked trade doesn't have the "pending physicals" clause attached.

It is just sad how rare it is that two teams (heaven forbid three, or four if you add in the Angels) can keep a deal quiet until it is actually completed. Now Stripling and Pederson are likely annoyed, and, had the Dodgers not still traded for him, Graterol's value might have been diminished. Luckily for him he's far enough from free agency to prove his worth himself and only the Twins would have been hurt by the reduction in value.
Agreed. All of the hand-wringing comes about because the deal gets leaked prematurely, before it's actually a "deal," and then it falls apart because one team has the audacity to look at the medical records, and the records influence the team's final decision. That part IS too bad for the players involved, because, as you suggest, it could impact how other teams perceive their value (especially if they, unlike Graterol, are close to being a free agent).

This is one of the reasons why the Orioles have received so much blowback from their relatively conservative view of physical results. They have a long history of signing guys pending a physical, and then backing out or attempting to renegotiate based on their conservative view of the physical's results.

But the media and public have short or defective memories. Stuff like this happens more frequently than generally realized, because it involves different teams and different calibers of players. But there was the Jay Bruce three-team trade that got nixed a handful of years ago because one of the players (Michael Saunders?) had a knee issue disclosed in his medicals. There was a more recent deal for Carlos Gomez that blew up for similar reasons. Was there as much angst about those trade failings? I don't know, they didn't involve the Red Sox, so I paid far less attention! Which is basically my point.
 

Gash Prex

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Why would the Twins be worried about Graterol? They just traded him away for a good package. The Red Sox have no obligation to accept their medical evaluations of these players - clearly they wanted him initially and then said "no" after seeing medicals. Seems entirely reasonable and appropriate.
 
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Eduardo Perez and MLB on SiriusXM were grilling the Sox today over the way the trade was handled saying how it was unfair to the players involved and their families leaving them hanging. Who cares? It’s a business transaction and these are professionals. Also, the Sox had every right to back out on Graterol. No different than buying a house and finding something major come up in the home inspection.
 
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Dewey'sCannon

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Eduardo Perez and MLB on SiriusXM were grilling the Sox today over the way the trade was handled saying how it was unfair to the players involved and their families leaving them hanging. Who cares? It’s a business transaction and these are professionals. Also, the Sox had every right to back out on Graterol. No different than buying a house and finding something major come up in the home inspection.
Yes, it was unfair to the players. But unless it was the Red Sox who leaked the initial deal (prior to the review of medicals) or who released the medical info on Graterol - both of which I think are highly unlikely - then it's not the Red Sox fault.
 

BigJimEd

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Does Eduardo Perez never discuss trade rumors?
If people are upset about it, they should be upset with the media reporting it and their sources leaking info before it is official.

I know people state it's the Red Sox that had motivation to leak medicals but it isn't that simple.
People in MN or LA could leak it just because they have a relationship with the media member. Just letting them know Boston is holding it up because they don't like the medicals.
And anyone, and likely many people, could have leaked the original deal.

Just don't report anything until official.
 

cornwalls@6

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Stock answer on Verdugo’s past: Don’t want to go into details, but we take the issue very seriously, did thorough research on it, and wouldn’t have made the acquisition if we found anything disqualifying.
 
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