2020 Pats: Bengals Coach Implies Patriots Taping Play Signals

Ralphwiggum

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Yes everyone who already thinks the pats cheat have more ammo. I don’t care about them. The Pats handed the league a reason to punish them again for basically nothing. That’s what’s I’m pissed about.
 

Hoya81

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Most of the big NFL writers (King, Florio etc) are pretty silent for a potentially big NFL story.
 

Jed Zeppelin

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The Patriots said they filmed the coaches making hand signals and then panning onto the field?
They said the camerawas on the field and sidelines. What happens on the field and sidelines? If you believe they didn’t send these dumbasses to steal signs, then whatever they saw is incidental shit thatjust happened to be in progress when the camera was pointed that way.
 

lexrageorge

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When reading these early reports, just remember Tomase and the taped walkthrough story.

Again, it would be the dumbest way possible to gain any sort of insight into a team's play calling. And probably not very effective either.

The Bengals had valid reasons for the footage to not be shot or seen by New England, even if it was an incidental shot of a coach giving a signal from the sideline, which still seems likely to be the case.
 

E5 Yaz

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They said the camerawas on the field and sidelines. What happens on the field and sidelines? If you believe they didn’t send these dumbasses to steal signs, then whatever they saw is incidental shit thatjust happened to be in progress when the camera was pointed that way.
We can't say that for certain without seeing the film.
 

DJnVa

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A bengals employee who allegedly saw the film is quoted as saying hand signals and panning
I'm not disagreeing. But in a doc about scouting that seems pretty much what you would expect, no?
 

E5 Yaz

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I'm not disagreeing. But in a doc about scouting that seems pretty much what you would expect, no?
To see scenes of something that was, even the NE statement says, is against league rules?
 

Ed Hillel

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Given Kraft’s reaction to Deflategate, specifically his anger towards BB, it seems odd he’d be in on something like this.
 

Silverdude2167

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So people seem agast that a film crew doing a segment on an advanced scout was taking b roll of the field and sidelines...

Like whatever would that be used for when talking about a person whose job it is to watch the field and the sideline...
 

Byrdbrain

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If football ops/coaches aren’t connected to KSP and don’t see the footage from whatever they got, what are we doing here?
KSP was the cover for Spygate.

This is crap, but it is crap that could end up being deep shit for the Pats.
 

DJnVa

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To see scenes of something that was, even the NE statement says, is against league rules?
Kinda. Doug Kyed tweeted that he'd expect that the film crew wouldn't know not to do that. So, if they're told to get b-roll they'd film those types of things. He says he's been around the film production team and his insinuation was they aren't plugged into the football stuff, just the filming stuff. He blames the Pats for not alerting them.
 
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cornwalls@6

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Back to hand signals. Do teams use them anymore or not? I also thought the radio helmet has been universally used on offense and defense for years now. What value is there to filming a sideline in 2019. It defies all logic and reason that this was anything other than the stupid mistake the Pats statement says it was. Which, of course, doesn’t preclude an absurdly punitive over reaction by the clown show of a commissioner.
 

E5 Yaz

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So people seem agast that a film crew doing a segment on an advanced scout was taking b roll of the field and sidelines...
Yeah, that's not a defense. Filming the field is against NFL rules. The Patriots acknowledged that it their statement.

As DJ says, they might not have known the rules ... which is on the Patriots for not letting them know what they can and can't film
 

Byrdbrain

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In Spygate, the advanced scouts themselves would “go undercover” as media members associated with KSP. This is much different.
I know it is and you know it is but they don’t know it is.
I hope the NFL will see through it but as E5 has pointed out the Patriots have admitted they broke the rule.
We all pretty much agree it wasn’t done on purpose and that there is nothing to gain by doing this but we don’t know if the NFL will agree.
 

Silverdude2167

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Yeah, that's not a defense. Filming the field is against NFL rules. The Patriots acknowledged that it their statement.

As DJ says, they might not have known the rules ... which is on the Patriots for not letting them know what they can and can't film
Not excusing it but it sure makes alot of sense. So ofcourse everyone will think cheating instead of the logical reason to do it.
 

E5 Yaz

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Not excusing it but it sure makes alot of sense. So ofcourse everyone will think cheating instead of the logical reason to do it.
And that's why we're at the point we are now. Everyone outside the Patriots bubble, and people with rational brains, can understand what happened. The rest won't, and it will be reenforced by the type of media they follow
 

BaseballJones

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Not excusing it but it sure makes alot of sense. So ofcourse everyone will think cheating instead of the logical reason to do it.
Everyone - including that idiot Bill Nye - frigging thought that the laws of physics somehow didn’t exist in the Pats-Colts AFCCG. They’re not gonna buy the Pats’ story here. Zero chance.
 

CoffeeNerdness

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SVP just clowned this story on Sportscenter. "Do you really think that the Patriots would go through all this to spy on the one win Bengals? I get that people need to make their jokes and there's a history here, but do you really think..."
 

Cotillion

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SVP just clowned this story on Sportscenter. "Do you really think that the Patriots would go through all this to spy on the one win Bengals? I get that people need to make their jokes and there's a history here, but do you really think..."
Decent sign but still waiting on Peter King.

He’s an NFL mouthpiece. Note how he buried the officials of the Pats game in his article. Whereas he still brings up and led off at the time with the Chiefs never getting the ball in OT AFCCG.

If King calls this a nothingburger, we are in for a decent outcome. If he goes all moral outrage, we know he’s being fed it somewhere from 345 or other owners.
 

fairlee76

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SVP just clowned this story on Sportscenter. "Do you really think that the Patriots would go through all this to spy on the one win Bengals? I get that people need to make their jokes and there's a history here, but do you really think..."
I realize that Spygate happened early in the 2007 season, but that Jets team also sucked (finishing 4 - 12). So not sure SVP's take makes much sense here. If you are among those that believe this organization will do whatever it takes to gain a competitive advantage, allegations like this completely ring true to you. Probably even more so given the current state of this team.

I've had more than one "agree to disagree" discussion about Brady being the best ever because the other debate participant kept falling back on "but he has benefited so much from cheating." The Pats need to be smarter about this crap and think through appearances, especially when they are filming for some inane "Do Your Job" promo video. In my opinion, their PR staff needs to "do their job" and think through how this might look to the rest of the league/nation. Just avoid putting yourself in situations where it is easy to assume ill intent.
 

Jimbodandy

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At this point if you care about the fans of the 31 other teams calling the Patriots cheaters, that is a you problem.

Let's all cross our fingers and hope that Roger feels that the fucking that we got on Sunday from the refs was enough for one season.
 

Anthologos

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I realize that Spygate happened early in the 2007 season, but that Jets team also sucked (finishing 4 - 12). So not sure SVP's take makes much sense here. If you are among those that believe this organization will do whatever it takes to gain a competitive advantage, allegations like this completely ring true to you. Probably even more so given the current state of this team.

I've had more than one "agree to disagree" discussion about Brady being the best ever because the other debate participant kept falling back on "but he has benefited so much from cheating." The Pats need to be smarter about this crap and think through appearances, especially when they are filming for some inane "Do Your Job" promo video. In my opinion, their PR staff needs to "do their job" and think through how this might look to the rest of the league/nation. Just avoid putting yourself in situations where it is easy to assume ill intent.
This is pretty fair to my fanboy eyes. The apology/explanation makes complete sense, as does the nasty insinuations invited by all other 31 teams.

Billion-dollar businesses still screw up in the PR department...

Should the very idea of filming a football team from the sidelines have been anathema to NEP TV producers? Sure. Would a few sub-28 year olds have no clue? Also true.

Maybe it was malicious: but it seems enormously unlikely.

Fuck-ups occur all the time. KC almost didn’t have their equipment.

A 7th-round draft pick seems appropriate.
 

Pablo's TB Lover

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I'm just spitballing like most here, but doesn't NFL Films release on-field footage to the teams for use in their products? Such as the previous Patriots championship videos: my understanding was that field footage comes from NFL and the team supplements this with locker room, practice field footage, interviews, etc.

Just speculating that even if the video is standard footage reel and doesn't follow a pattern of obtaining signals, the NFL is pissed (maybe even more so) about the overstep into their Films division with no advance knowledge.

But this would be a punishment not applicable to the football operations. Probably a hefty fine and a request that a few heads roll from KSP.

If I am way off base let me know and I'll delete!
 

Ed Hillel

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I remember earlier in the year watching the game where the production crew spent 10 minutes pointing close ups at Mayo and Steve Belichick giving signals trying to figure out who was in charge and thinking about how dumb the entire concept of Spygate was. Good times.
 

EL Jeffe

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And I read that as you failing English Comprehension 101.
Sick burn.

So when Belichick and NESN both confirmed it was illegal yesterday, j guess they're just as stupid as me. Thank goodness. Nothing to see here.
 

axx

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The idea is that this was a trial run. They obviously wouldn't have done this to tape the Bengals. It'd be more for the playoffs.
 

Byrdbrain

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The idea is that this was a trial run. They obviously wouldn't have done this to tape the Bengals. It'd be more for the playoffs.
They would then have to pretend they were filming a documentary at every playoff game?
It was dumb of the Pats to put themselves in this position but anyone who believes any of this is even dumber.
 

Captaincoop

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They would then have to pretend they were filming a documentary at every playoff game?
It was dumb of the Pats to put themselves in this position but anyone who believes any of this is even dumber.
I doubt most people here believe the Pats were using a documentary film crew to tape signals and illegally scout opponents. I surely do not.

The legitimate points folks are making are:

1) that the Patriots were staggeringly foolish to put themselves in a position where this could happen, and;

2) the NFL and other owners are unlikely to care whether a Patriots film crew, operating in (by Kraft's own admission) violation of NFL policy and videotaping opposing coaches, was acting on its own or under the direction of football staff.

I don't think the coaching staff had anything to do with this. But I also think the Pats are about to get crushed if that video shows Cincy coaches doing anything.
 

mauf

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In Spygate, the advanced scouts themselves would “go undercover” as media members associated with KSP. This is much different.
A lot of people here seem to have forgotten how bad Spygate was — not in terms of gaining a competitive advantage (they didn’t), but in terms of purposely violating a league rule soon after a league-wide memo was sent reminding clubs of said rule.
 

Ralphwiggum

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I doubt most people here believe the Pats were using a documentary film crew to tape signals and illegally scout opponents. I surely do not.

The legitimate points folks are making are:

1) that the Patriots were staggeringly foolish to put themselves in a position where this could happen, and;

2) the NFL and other owners are unlikely to care whether a Patriots film crew, operating in (by Kraft's own admission) violation of NFL policy and videotaping opposing coaches, was acting on its own or under the direction of football staff.

I don't think the coaching staff had anything to do with this. But I also think the Pats are about to get crushed if that video shows Cincy coaches doing anything.
Exactly this. I cannot get over how unbelievably stupid they were here. This is completely a self-inflicted wound and it is going to really piss me off if they get docked draft picks over this.