Ben Simmons wants out of Philadelphia

Status
Not open for further replies.

Cellar-Door

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 1, 2006
27,118
I find it odd how eagerly some people jump to believe Simmons's claim of a mental health explanation that was offered alongside a bullshit claim of back tightness. Just a tip for those of you that want to lie - keep it simple. Piling on explanations is an easily-recognizable tactic of liars.
He has consistently said he wasn't mentally ready to return, whether we want to call that a mental health explanation or not, it isn't new.

As to the back... it's the NBA, everybody probably has something that hurts, that's pro sports. It's something that's pretty well known, every player is less than 100% most of the time, they just tend to play through it. Simmons has no incentive to play through it, so he got treatment then left. I doubt either thing is "fake" it's just a question of degrees. If his mental state was that he was excited to get out there and play, maybe he gets treatment for a tight back and then goes to practice, since he doesn't particularly want to be there he's not gonna practice.

I hear your conclusion and was aksing how you got there in terms of evidence--which I don't really see above.

Morey had no lack of suitors once he left Houston, in spite of having created a massive challenge with China. He has made a massive number of trades - that is not consistent with your description. That includes huge, complex deals like the Harden trade and many others. I certainly see the articles criticizing him, but I don't take those in a vacuum. What I see in terms of actions and evidence is that he is valued by team decision makers and able to make a huge number of moves with other GMs/team leaders. So I think we need to consider that data as well as the stories which may be real, and may also be planted by agents or teams who have an angle.

I do not think you have any idea what he did or did not do in terms of communication with Simmons this summer, or what of any gap was Morey and what was positioning from Simmons. I don't either---but my conclusion doesn't depend on a totally unfounded assumption about what it was or was not.

So I mean...I can totally imagine Morey is a jerk and it impacts them. But there's a bunch of reasons to think he's a highly regarded executive too.
I get that Morey is highly regarded, and he is good at a lot of his job, he's long been a forerunner on good analytics use, he's got a very good rep for asset management. He's a solid GM. I am also comfortable with my assessment of him on the personal side, it's been said by way too many people way too often. I don't think GMs won't deal with him because they don't like him, my point was, he's not known for having good relationships, that means you don't get favors, you don't get the benefit of the doubt, your negotiations are going to be less smooth. His biggest issue is that people think they have him over a barrel, and he thinks that Simmons' value should be the same regardless of the 76ers situation, which seems like a bad reading of the room.

As to the communication.... sure we don't know exactly what happened over the summer, but we had a string of leaks from both sides that we can read into, and most importantly, we have what he is doing now. His current actions don't make much sense in terms of relationship management. He's trying to be a public bully, and that is just a really bad tack that seems based in not really understanding relationship building. So when someone who has long been accused of being bad at relationship building makes public statements and takes actions that poison a relationship that is already sour, in part (if we believe various leaks from various sources) because the player felt mistreated last year in trade discussions, I'm willing to take those two things and tie them together.. is it 100%.. maybe not, but there is more than enough smoke there.
 
Last edited:

Cesar Crespo

79
SoSH Member
Dec 22, 2002
21,028
I find it odd how eagerly some people jump to believe Simmons's claim of a mental health explanation that was offered alongside a bullshit claim of back tightness. Just a tip for those of you that want to lie - keep it simple. Piling on explanations is an easily-recognizable tactic of liars.

A friend of mine took a much-needed leave from work for a mental health reason and she didn't add a random physical ailment to make it more believable. My best friend regularly cancels plans with me due to severe anxiety and he doesn't claim an ankle injury alongside it to make it more believable.

Ben Simmons has been unwilling to shoot for 4 years in the league. I don't know about his career before that, he's possibly been unwilling to shoot his whole life. If he finally figured out this offseason that it was a mental health issue and was getting treated for it that would have been a big event for him (anyone who has dealt with mental health knows how impactful a diagnosis can be) and he wouldn't feel the need to color things up with a fake back problem. Hell, even if the back problem was real someone suffering from a mental health issue that takes precedence wouldn't feel the need to mention it.
No one here is really saying they believe it. Just that it's a buyable excuse and there's no way to disprove it.
 
Mar 26, 2014
64
No one here is really saying they believe it. Just that it's a buyable excuse and there's no way to disprove it.
It doesn't just stop at the claim, though. Does he have a diagnosis? Has he even seen a professional about it? Is he willing to participate in therapy with the goal of overcoming his problem and getting back on the court? I suspect Simmons doesn't have any receipts, and I doubt he'd be willing to commit to this farce by seeing a team-approved professional and working through the problem. Hell, Philadelphia would be thrilled if he took time off to actually fix his refusal to shoot.

If a player knew he had a physical injury, did nothing to treat it, and used that injury as an excuse to not play then the team wouldn't just have to throw their hands up and accept it.
 

Deathofthebambino

Drive Carefully
SoSH Member
Apr 12, 2005
37,370
It doesn't just stop at the claim, though. Does he have a diagnosis? Has he even seen a professional about it? Is he willing to participate in therapy with the goal of overcoming his problem and getting back on the court? I suspect Simmons doesn't have any receipts, and I doubt he'd be willing to commit to this farce by seeing a team-approved professional and working through the problem. Hell, Philadelphia would be thrilled if he took time off to actually fix his refusal to shoot.

If a player knew he had a physical injury, did nothing to treat it, and used that injury as an excuse to not play then the team wouldn't just have to throw their hands up and accept it.
I'm with you on this. If Simmons was traded today to a team he wanted to play for, there is absolutely no doubt in my mind he shows up to work tomorrow with a smile on his face.

Mental health is a major issue in this country, and is not to be taken or treated lightly. Being unhappy with your job and/or your bosses, and as a result, being unable to perform because you are "mentally not ready" is not a mental illness. It's what millions of Americans go through every day in jobs they hate. The difference is Ben Simmons is paid 35mil/year to do his job, and it's in front of the world. If Ben Simmons is truly suffering from mental illness (rather than simply suffering from hating his team/management and wanting out), then I'll be the first to post a mea culpa, but my guess is the minute he's out of Philly, he'll be fine again.

None of this excuses the disaster that Morey is as a GM and a PR rep for the organization. Both sides have completely blown this from day one.
 

Cesar Crespo

79
SoSH Member
Dec 22, 2002
21,028
If a player knew he had a physical injury, did nothing to treat it, and used that injury as an excuse to not play then the team wouldn't just have to throw their hands up and accept it.
Any proof? Does a player have to get surgery if he's injured? I'm not sure of any player who decided to skip injury but players get 2nd opinions all the time and delay surgeries all the time.

Can teams force a player to get surgery?

Kawhi Leonard missed a whole year. Spurs just had to accept it.

Plus everything you are saying is nonsense. There are tons and tons of people with untreated mental conditions. You can acquire a mental illness in a day. Maybe his mental condition got worse over the last 4 weeks and prior to that, it was manageable and didn't need treatment.

But yea, just because Simmons hasn't seen a shrink clearly means he doesn't have mental health issues. Give me a break.
 

PedroKsBambino

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Apr 17, 2003
28,051
He has consistently said he wasn't mentally ready to return, whether we want to call that a mental health explanation or not, it isn't new.

As to the back... it's the NBA, everybody probably has something that hurts, that's pro sports. It's something that's pretty well known, every player is less than 100% most of the time, they just tend to play through it. Simmons has no incentive to play through it, so he got treatment then left. I doubt either thing is "fake" it's just a question of degrees. If his mental state was that he was excited to get out there and play, maybe he gets treatment for a tight back and then goes to practice, since he doesn't particularly want to be there he's not gonna practice.


I get that Morey is highly regarded, and he is good at a lot of his job, he's long been a forerunner on good analytics use, he's got a very good rep for asset management. He's a solid GM. I am also comfortable with my assessment of him on the personal side, it's been said by way too many people way too often. I don't think GMs won't deal with him because they don't like him, my point was, he's not known for having good relationships, that means you don't get favors, you don't get the benefit of the doubt, your negotiations are going to be less smooth. His biggest issue is that people think they have him over a barrel, and he thinks that Simmons' value should be the same regardless of the 76ers situation, which seems like a bad reading of the room.

As to the communication.... sure we don't know exactly what happened over the summer, but we had a string of leaks from both sides that we can read into, and most importantly, we have what he is doing now. His current actions don't make much sense in terms of relationship management. He's trying to be a public bully, and that is just a really bad tack that seems based in not really understanding relationship building. So when someone who has long been accused of being bad at relationship building makes public statements and takes actions that poison a relationship that is already sour, in part (if we believe various leaks from various sources) because the player felt mistreated last year in trade discussions, I'm willing to take those two things and tie them together.. is it 100%.. maybe not, but there is more than enough smoke there.
Calling him a bully seems odd. How is he any more of a bully than Rich Paul? Than “operation shutdown 2.0” Simmons himself?

I get you don’t like Morey—-worth considering if you’ve lost the big picture because of that
 

lexrageorge

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 31, 2007
15,035
What evidence is there of Morey being disliked by his fellow GMs? Seems like agent-planted noise to me.
 

Fishy1

Member
SoSH Member
Nov 10, 2006
4,484
Whatever the treatment protocol is for an athlete struggling with mental health issues, I hope Ben takes advantage of it and gets back on the court as soon as possible.
Another SoSH thread turns empathetic.

I'm in agreement, anyway. We know so little about these people's lives. Who knows who's said what to whom in private? Nevermind what they're feeling... Half the time I can't pin down what I'm feeling, nevermind guess what someone else is.

The rush to judgment may be very human, but that doesn't mean it isn't ugly and pernicious. Maybe Simmons is a selfish coward. Maybe he has a personality disorder. Maybe he's an anxious mess. We don't know.
 

Cesar Crespo

79
SoSH Member
Dec 22, 2002
21,028
Another SoSH thread turns empathetic.

I'm in agreement, anyway. We know so little about these people's lives. Who knows who's said what to whom in private? Nevermind what they're feeling... Half the time I can't pin down what I'm feeling, nevermind guess what someone else is.

The rush to judgment may be very human, but that doesn't mean it isn't ugly and pernicious. Maybe Simmons is a selfish coward. Maybe he has a personality disorder. Maybe he's an anxious mess. We don't know.

And just because he doesn't act the same way Themuddychicken's friends do, doesn't mean he isn't mentally ill. Not everyone with a mental illness acts the same. Some people are actually ashamed of having a mental illness and could very well cover it up with a fake physical injury.

I don't know if he's faking or not, but to assume he's faking because he's not acting like someone's friends is ridiculous. I'm glad Ben Simmons must act exactly like their friend or he's not mentally ill because all mentally ill people are clearly the same.
 

Devizier

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 3, 2000
16,564
Somewhere
but to assume he's faking
No strong feeling here, but my guess is that people assume he's faking because of context. And because it was explicitly (and repeatedly!) described here as a strategy to honor the letter of his contract if not the spirit (and get paid). Of course, most of us haven't really thought that strategy through and we don't actually know if it works. I guess we might find out.
 

djbayko

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 18, 2005
20,615
Los Angeles, CA
I'm with you on this. If Simmons was traded today to a team he wanted to play for, there is absolutely no doubt in my mind he shows up to work tomorrow with a smile on his face.
You mean he’d feel much better once what is potentially the biggest current stressor in his life is removed and he gets a fresh start on a team which actually wants him enough to trade for him? You don’t say.
No one here is really saying they believe it. Just that it's a buyable excuse and there's no way to disprove it.
I actually am saying that it’s possible. I don’t see why it can’t be both. He’s trying to find any way of this team because he’s unhappy with the current situation. And that unhappiness is making him fee unwell.
 

Kliq

Member
SoSH Member
Mar 31, 2013
18,934
I think we can all agree that Simmons currently is in a mental state that makes him unable to perform at a respectable level. His brief time returning to practice in Philly and subsequent dismissal is all you need to know.

Whether or not his negative mental state is due to an outstanding, serious mental health issue, or a more selective issue that most athletes would easily be able to work through, is up for debate.
 

Deathofthebambino

Drive Carefully
SoSH Member
Apr 12, 2005
37,370
You mean he’d feel much better once what is potentially the biggest current stressor in his life is removed and he gets a fresh start on a team which actually wants him enough to trade for him? You don’t say.
My biggest stressor is my job too. What's yours? If you walk out of the office, and tell your employer you're not "mentally prepared to work" because your boss is a big meanie poopy head, and you think you deserve to go play golf and take a "mental health" day, does that mean you are suffering from mental illness, or you just don't like your fucking job and/or your boss or your colleagues?

You and Cesar Crespo have just as little evidence that Ben Simmons has a mental illness than muddychicken has that he doesn't, but get on that high horse. I mean, you've literally given cover to Ben Simmons to do anything he wants. Poor Ben Simmons, he has a mental illness. He can't play for the Sixers because of it.

Mental illness isn't fixed because you change the shirt of the team you're playing for, and to insinuate that it's that easy to resolve, as you just did, is a disservice to anyone who suffers from mental illness.
 

Cesar Crespo

79
SoSH Member
Dec 22, 2002
21,028
My biggest stressor is my job too. What's yours? If you walk out of the office, and tell your employer you're not "mentally prepared to work" because your boss is a big meanie poopy head, and you think you deserve to go play golf and take a "mental health" day, does that mean you are suffering from mental illness, or you just don't like your fucking job and/or your boss or your colleagues?
It could mean both. Sorry you don't have the empathy to get that.

Plus most people have the option of quitting and finding other jobs in their field.
 

djbayko

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 18, 2005
20,615
Los Angeles, CA
My biggest stressor is my job too. What's yours? If you walk out of the office, and tell your employer you're not "mentally prepared to work" because your boss is a big meanie poopy head, and you think you deserve to go play golf and take a "mental health" day, does that mean you are suffering from mental illness, or you just don't like your fucking job and/or your boss or your colleagues?

You and Cesar Crespo have just as little evidence that Ben Simmons has a mental illness than muddychicken has that he doesn't, but get on that high horse. I mean, you've literally given cover to Ben Simmons to do anything he wants. Poor Ben Simmons, he has a mental illness. He can't play for the Sixers because of it.

Mental illness isn't fixed because you change the shirt of the team you're playing for, and to insinuate that it's that easy to resolve, as you just did, is a disservice to anyone who suffers from mental illness.
Respectfully, are you a mental health professional or something? I have batted with depression on and off most of my adult life. I’m not doing a disservice to anyone. Change of environment and removal of stressors can have an enormously positive and immediate impact. Does it mean you’re cured forever? Maybe, maybe not. But it can mean the difference between not being able to get out of bed all day and being able to function in society again. I know that much personally.
 
Last edited:

tbb345

Member
SoSH Member
Apr 23, 2010
4,120
My biggest stressor is my job too. What's yours? If you walk out of the office, and tell your employer you're not "mentally prepared to work" because your boss is a big meanie poopy head, and you think you deserve to go play golf and take a "mental health" day, does that mean you are suffering from mental illness, or you just don't like your fucking job and/or your boss or your colleagues?
The optics don’t look great but I’d caution going all in on this without reading some of the stuff he’s gone through in the last year.
In April, his sister accused his brother of molesting her when she was a kid. His brother denied and sued his sister for defamation. He ended up winning because the sister never showed up to court. Apparently Simmons was/is very close to both of them.
When you have something that big in your personal life going wrong, combined with the job being miserable, I think that would really fuck up most people’s mental health
 

Fishy1

Member
SoSH Member
Nov 10, 2006
4,484
My biggest stressor is my job too. What's yours? If you walk out of the office, and tell your employer you're not "mentally prepared to work" because your boss is a big meanie poopy head, and you think you deserve to go play golf and take a "mental health" day, does that mean you are suffering from mental illness, or you just don't like your fucking job and/or your boss or your colleagues?

You and Cesar Crespo have just as little evidence that Ben Simmons has a mental illness than muddychicken has that he doesn't, but get on that high horse. I mean, you've literally given cover to Ben Simmons to do anything he wants. Poor Ben Simmons, he has a mental illness. He can't play for the Sixers because of it.

Mental illness isn't fixed because you change the shirt of the team you're playing for, and to insinuate that it's that easy to resolve, as you just did, is a disservice to anyone who suffers from mental illness.
They haven't given him cover to do anything. They don't know him. They literally can't give him cover.

I say again, you don't know what's going on his life. At all.
 

Cesar Crespo

79
SoSH Member
Dec 22, 2002
21,028
There's also no high horse. I'm not the one making claims that everyone with mental illness acts the same.

TheMuddychicken's post was offensive to anyone who has a mental illness.
 

Deathofthebambino

Drive Carefully
SoSH Member
Apr 12, 2005
37,370
It could mean both. Sorry you don't have the empathy to get that.

Plus most people have the option of quitting and finding other jobs in their field.
So if any athlete (or any employee in any field according to you) at any time wants out of their contract or wants a trade, you're comfortable with just calling it "mental illness" and letting them get what they want?

Have fun setting the conversation about mental illness in this country back 20 years. I'm not willing to do that. If Jayson Tatum decides tomorrow he hates Marcus Smart, and doesn't want to play for the C's after he goes 7/30 again tonight, and he wakes up and says "You know what, I have a mental illness that requires me to play in South Beach," you're going to be fine with that and try to trade him to Miami?

Like I said in my first post, if he's got a mental health issue, I'll be the first to apologize. But he hasn't said that. You all are saying it for him. The only thing that's been said is that he's not mentally ready to play basketball. Mental illness and mental preparation are not the same thing.
 

EvilEmpire

paying for his sins
Staff member
Dope
Apr 9, 2007
15,535
Washington
I have empathy, sure. I had some issues while in a stressful job and sought out treatment too. It helped a little and I was able to not miss work and do my job. But that was the point: I got help because I needed to be able to do my job. I'm sure there is some kind of NBA protocol for Simmons to get some help with an end toward getting him back into practice and on the court. It's up to him to take advantage of it.

If he's using the specter of mental illness to to apply pressure and get out of his contract, fuck him for trivializing something important. If he isn't getting help in order to get back on the court as soon as possible, fuck him some more for wanting to get paid for not even trying to do his job.
 

Cesar Crespo

79
SoSH Member
Dec 22, 2002
21,028
So if any athlete (or any employee in any field according to you) at any time wants out of their contract or wants a trade, you're comfortable with just calling it "mental illness" and letting them get what they want?

Have fun setting the conversation about mental illness in this country back 20 years. I'm not willing to do that. If Jayson Tatum decides tomorrow he hates Marcus Smart, and doesn't want to play for the C's after he goes 7/30 again tonight, and he wakes up and says "You know what, I have a mental illness that requires me to play in South Beach," you're going to be fine with that and try to trade him to Miami?

Like I said in my first post, if he's got a mental health issue, I'll be the first to apologize. But he hasn't said that. You all are saying it for him. The only thing that's been said is that he's not mentally ready to play basketball. Mental illness and mental preparation are not the same thing.
No one is saying it for him. Everyone is saying IF. You are just reading things the way you want to read them.
 

Deathofthebambino

Drive Carefully
SoSH Member
Apr 12, 2005
37,370
No one is saying it for him. Everyone is saying IF. You are just reading things the way you want to read them.
Like I said in my first post, IF he's got a mental health issue, I'll be the first to apologize. But he hasn't said that.

I would say my "ifs" have been way more clear than your attacks. Where is the "if" in this post?

"You mean he’d feel much better once what is potentially the biggest current stressor in his life is removed and he gets a fresh start on a team which actually wants him enough to trade for him? You don’t say."
 

Cesar Crespo

79
SoSH Member
Dec 22, 2002
21,028
Like I said in my first post, IF he's got a mental health issue, I'll be the first to apologize. But he hasn't said that.

I would say my "ifs" have been way more clear than your attacks. Where is the "if" in this post?

"You mean he’d feel much better once what is potentially the biggest current stressor in his life is removed and he gets a fresh start on a team which actually wants him enough to trade for him? You don’t say."
What is wrong with what DJBayko said exactly? It's 100% true and it doesn't say anything about mental health issues. Just that he'd feel better being out of Philly. I don't follow.
 

djbayko

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 18, 2005
20,615
Los Angeles, CA
Like I said in my first post, IF he's got a mental health issue, I'll be the first to apologize. But he hasn't said that.

I would say my "ifs" have been way more clear than your attacks. Where is the "if" in this post?

"You mean he’d feel much better once what is potentially the biggest current stressor in his life is removed and he gets a fresh start on a team which actually wants him enough to trade for him? You don’t say."
Since You quoted me…

While I am possibly the one posting in here with the most vigor towards defending Ben’s mental state, all of my posts have a huge implied “IF”. I assumed that was obvious. No one here KNOWS what’s going on in his head, and that’s kind of my point. Come on, man.

Edit: Looking back, I’ve actually used qualifiers such as “maybe” and “possibly” throughout, if not that one specific post.
 
Last edited:

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Dec 24, 2002
38,502
Mining bitcoin from your mom's basement or landscaping or closing a business deal can all be stressful.

However I find it both troubling and also hilarious that a bunch of ham and eggers like us are trying to compare their workplace to Ben Simmons.

@Fishy1 makes the key point. Its almost certain nobody posting here has enough information to diagnose what is or is not wrong with Ben Simmons.

As a side note, my job can routinely be quite stressful. However I don't regularly have a host of the most athletic freaks in the world trying to stop me from my work while 30k fans, pundits and the entire internet celebrate my failures (thankfully).

How the hell can anyone here even begin to understand this person's life?
 

johnmd20

mad dog
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Dec 30, 2003
54,491
New York City
Mining bitcoin from your mom's basement or landscaping or closing a business deal can all be stressful.

However I find it both troubling and also hilarious that a bunch of ham and eggers like us are trying to compare their workplace to Ben Simmons.

@Fishy1 makes the key point. Its almost certain nobody posting here has enough information to diagnose what is or is not wrong with Ben Simmons.

As a side note, my job can routinely be quite stressful. However I don't regularly have a host of the most athletic freaks in the world trying to stop me from my work while 30k fans, pundits and the entire internet celebrate my failures (thankfully).

How the hell can anyone here even begin to understand this person's life?
Will nobody think about the suffering of poor Ben Simmons?
 

snowmanny

Member
SoSH Member
Dec 8, 2005
13,770
Mining bitcoin from your mom's basement or landscaping or closing a business deal can all be stressful.

However I find it both troubling and also hilarious that a bunch of ham and eggers like us are trying to compare their workplace to Ben Simmons.

@Fishy1 makes the key point. Its almost certain nobody posting here has enough information to diagnose what is or is not wrong with Ben Simmons.

As a side note, my job can routinely be quite stressful. However I don't regularly have a host of the most athletic freaks in the world trying to stop me from my work while 30k fans, pundits and the entire internet celebrate my failures (thankfully).

How the hell can anyone here even begin to understand this person's life?
You're right in the main, but a reasonable question is why is he so much more challenged by the routine stresses of NBA stardom than are most great players?
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

Member
SoSH Member
Mar 26, 2005
26,758
So if any athlete (or any employee in any field according to you) at any time wants out of their contract or wants a trade, you're comfortable with just calling it "mental illness" and letting them get what they want?
As Dejesus points out, Ben's job is much different than most people. Most people aren't asked to be one of the 30 best in the world at their job.

The rules are different for people with unique talents. When Kyrie said he wanted a break from basketball, he got it (and went and partied) and BRK didn't utter one word. Because they wanted him to play. If Taylor Swift schedules a concert and then cancels because she feels she can't give 100%, they may not pay her for the concert but a venue sure isn't going to badmouth her because they'd really like her to play at that venue again.

Plus, no one really wants to see what a less-than-100% performer actually looks or sounds like.

What I think Morey forgot - or simply doesn't care - is that there are way more Darryl Morey's than Ben Simmons in this world.
 

sezwho

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 20, 2005
929
Isle of Plum
Exhibit A about why we suck so much at mental health in this country.
There were plenty of other exhibits up thread.

(edit) - I'd be shortsighted to only highlight those: I also ready multiple compassionate, heartfelt and personal posts that were powerful. Thanks to those who shared.

Btw - Morey is clearly not stupid just an asshole. He does not care about the NBA, he does not care about the Sixers, he did not care about Houston, he does not care about any of the players and will burn them all to the ground if it helps HIm win.

(edit) - Ironically this is also at least partially why he's been so successful. Also, it was pretty ballsy or wildly ignorant to take the Hong Kong position...maybe this a sign of internal compass?
 
Last edited:

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Dec 24, 2002
38,502
Will nobody think about the suffering of poor Ben Simmons?
I did not call for people to sympathize with Ben Simmons. I am simply pointing out two facts.

Its highly unlikely that anyone posting here is familiar enough with Ben Simmons mental health to accurately comment on it.

In addition, most people here simply cannot compare their workplace related stressors to that of Ben Simmons.

What do you take issue with here?
 

lexrageorge

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 31, 2007
15,035
There were plenty of other exhibits up thread.

(edit) - I'd be shortsighted to only highlight those: I also ready multiple compassionate, heartfelt and personal posts that were powerful.

Btw - Morey is clearly not stupid just an asshole. He does not care about the NBA, he does not care about the Sixers, he did not care about Houston, he does not care about any of the players and will burn them all to the ground if it helps HIm win.

(edit) - Ironically this is also at least partially why he's been so successful. Also, it was pretty ballsy or wildly ignorant to take the Hong Kong position...maybe this a sign of internal compass?
So Morey should just trade Simmons for nothing? Or just release him from his contract? Not doing that makes him an asshole?
 

sezwho

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 20, 2005
929
Isle of Plum
So Morey should just trade Simmons for nothing? Or just release him from his contract? Not doing that makes him an asshole?
No, pretty sure there are and were other alternatives suggested above.

Its a fair challenge though for sure. I believe what's making him the asshole here is huge player cost (not just to Ben), franchise cost, and league cost to the position Morey has staked out. Maybe he ends up with 55c instead of 50c, but ultimately none of that cost will be paid by him. Heck, he'll be paid (no suspension :)) but won't even be here next year without some kind of successful resolution anyway.

If you listen to him talk, and I've actually been super impressed with his creativity over the years, he's pretty bored of bball and ready to move to pure finance (other something else) so he could give 2 craps about scorching the earth.

(edit) - In this case, to respond to your question: if I were in Morey's shoes I'd send Ben home with pay until either he's traded. Then I'd stop talking BS, and asking Embiid and Doc to stop talking, until I had something to announce.
 

lexrageorge

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 31, 2007
15,035
No, pretty sure there are and were other alternatives suggested above.

Its a fair challenge though for sure. I believe what's making him the asshole here is huge player cost (not just to Ben), franchise cost, and league cost to the position Morey has staked out. Maybe he ends up with 55c instead of 50c, but ultimately none of that cost will be paid by him. Heck, he'll be paid (no suspension :) but won't even be here next year without some kind of successful resolution anyway.

If you listen to him talk, and I've actually been super impressed with his creativity over the years, he's pretty bored of bball and ready to move to pure finance (other something else) so he could give 2 craps about scorching the earth.
Disagree that there is a league cost here. Fans aren't going to stop attending Bucks or Suns or Lakers games because of a Ben Simmons contract dispute. Sponsors aren't going to cut back on advertising. The other owners are probably happy if Morey can stop the precedent of star players effectively walking away from their contracts.

If the franchise gets a better return in January when the trading climate is very different than it is today, then the franchise cost may also be minimal. And Simmons probably ends up getting paid regardless.
 

johnmd20

mad dog
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Dec 30, 2003
54,491
New York City
I did not call for people to sympathize with Ben Simmons. I am simply pointing out two facts.

Its highly unlikely that anyone posting here is familiar enough with Ben Simmons mental health to accurately comment on it.

In addition, most people here simply cannot compare their workplace related stressors to that of Ben Simmons.

What do you take issue with here?
I take issue with the fact that you're alleging that being a superstar NBA player is a brutal endeavor that only the hardiest can survive.

Ben can live a life that only 0.01% of the people on this planet can even comprehend but have 0% chance of realizing. And you're speaking like he's working 10 hours a day in a coal mine. Real stress is not being able to pay your bills or deciding between medication or your child's dinner. Not whether or not you're worried about missing three pointers.
 

sezwho

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 20, 2005
929
Isle of Plum
Disagree that there is a league cost here. Fans aren't going to stop attending Bucks or Suns or Lakers games because of a Ben Simmons contract dispute. Sponsors aren't going to cut back on advertising. The other owners are probably happy if Morey can stop the precedent of star players effectively walking away from their contracts.

If the franchise gets a better return in January when the trading climate is very different than it is today, then the franchise cost may also be minimal. And Simmons probably ends up getting paid regardless.
Its true that it might work out that way. I also agree any revenue impact this year to the league, outside of Sixers tix/sponsors directly, is likely to be minimal. That said, I think we have to agree to disagree on the league cost overall because I think there is significant reputational and brand value at play, and I think this is a very dark battle brewing where the only person w/ no skin in the game is Morey. If this continues to go to @#$@, the player, team and league have a real mess on their hands and he's never looking back...except to cash his ongoing paycheck.

(edit) Good point about the other GMs. I wonder what they are thinking, is it as simple as they hope he 'breaks' the players? Maybe...
 

lexrageorge

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 31, 2007
15,035
I take issue with the fact that you're alleging that being a superstar NBA player is a brutal endeavor that only the hardiest can survive.

Ben can live a life that only 0.01% of the people on this planet can even comprehend but have 0% chance of realizing. And you're speaking like he's working 10 hours a day in a coal mine. Real stress is not being able to pay your bills or deciding between medication or your child's dinner. Not whether or not you're worried about missing three pointers.
I don’t think anyone is saying Ben Simmons deserves more sympathy that the examples you cited. And I personally don’t give a lot of credence to the “mentally unfit” explanation either. But we also aren’t privy to his personal life. We should never assume celebrities have it made just because they are celebrities.
 

sezwho

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 20, 2005
929
Isle of Plum
I take issue with the fact that you're alleging that being a superstar NBA player is a brutal endeavor that only the hardiest can survive.

Ben can live a life that only 0.01% of the people on this planet can even comprehend but have 0% chance of realizing. And you're speaking like he's working 10 hours a day in a coal mine. Real stress is not being able to pay your bills or deciding between medication or your child's dinner. Not whether or not you're worried about missing three pointers.
Real stress could be facing significant performance anxiety where the only way you can monetize those abilities is to overcome that fear while tens of thousands of people (and millions more at home) are staring at you.
 

benhogan

Granite Truther
SoSH Member
Nov 2, 2007
15,237
Santa Monica
So Morey should just trade Simmons for nothing? Or just release him from his contract? Not doing that makes him an asshole?
Morey should just pay Ben to go back to SoCal.

Go quiet with the media. Team-wide silence on Ben Simmons.

In the meantime try to get the best assets for him by Dec/Jan, when other teams will be motivated by underperformance with more players/salaries available to be moved

@EvilEmpire or a MOD, Is there a thread where posters can comment on sports/mental health? BTW this thread title stinks in regards to mental health and is not a great place to discuss IMO...

Let's get back to speculating on stupid fake trades
 

reggiecleveland

sublime
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Mar 5, 2004
26,723
Saskatoon Canada
I would be less skeptical of his mental health issues if this summer he had been saying he was not ready or willing to play, not that he was ready or willing to play for teams other than the 76ers.
 

johnmd20

mad dog
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Dec 30, 2003
54,491
New York City
I don’t think anyone is saying Ben Simmons deserves more sympathy that the examples you cited. And I personally don’t give a lot of credence to the “mentally unfit” explanation either. But we also aren’t privy to his personal life. We should never assume celebrities have it made just because they are celebrities.
In the thread in V&N, there is a conversation was about how powerful luck is.

Ben Simmons is unequivocally one of the luckiest humans on the planet. This doesn't mean he doesn't have challenges. Everyone has challenges. But he has the help and resources to do whatever it is he needs to do.
 

EvilEmpire

paying for his sins
Staff member
Dope
Apr 9, 2007
15,535
Washington
@EvilEmpire or a MOD, Is there a thread where posters can comment on sports/mental health? BTW this thread title stinks in regards to mental health and is not a great place to discuss IMO...
I changed the thread title. If someone has something amusing that is appropriate, I can update it again.

As far as a thread dedicated to sports/mental health, I'm not aware of one. Anyone interested can create one if they like.
 

Marciano490

Urological Expert
SoSH Member
Nov 4, 2007
53,170
Maybe Simmons has cancer or thoracic outlet syndrome. Do we know he doesn’t?

This is the second thread (Mike Pillow) where people start speculating against mental illness. It’s shitty to blame everything uncertain on the specter of mental illness. Real people are suffering with real afflictions and society is finally starting to pay attention. Chalking up every suboptimal behavior to mental illness does damage to that.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.