Ben Simmons wants out of Philadelphia

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BigSoxFan

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It would be amazing if Simmons went full Bynum. Just "oh you want me to shoot 3s?. Enjoy this 40 footer!, ooh 38 foot pullup on a 3v1." And just rained bricks on terrible low probability 3s.
"
If he did that and just went full Phillip Seymour Hoffman in “Along Came Polly”, I would be Simmons’ #1 fan for life. Honestly, draining some 3’s is probably the only way he gets Philly fans back on his side.
 

terrynever

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In actual basketball news, Isiah Joe torched the Nets tonight. He’s a shooter with range. Doc has liked him and Maxey for more than a year. The Sixers will be good, without Simmons, once the deal is done.
 

terrynever

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He’s avoidant, not submissive. If he was submissive he would have started jacking up threes back when his coach first asked him to.
Maybe he’s just afraid. When you hear the tennis player Osaka speak about her fears, you realize how some of these beautiful athletes can have the same doubts as the rest of us, even if they are 6-foot-10 and make $30M a year. We saw Ben melt down last spring in full public view. Now he returns to his teammates, who will support him, but what’s going on in Ben’s head? I sit at home in my armchair and worry. Ben is different.
 

benhogan

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Doc trying his best to convince Ben to play ;)

https://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/264378/Ben-Simmons-Meets-With-Daryl-Morey-Doc-Rivers


Dating back to dialogues at the NBA Combine, Philadelphia has been adamant that they would withhold compensation from Simmons if he didn't report.

Later, at Rich Paul's home during the August meeting, Rivers even shouted, “It's in your f--king contract” to report and play for Philadelphia.



After a couple of months, an NBA team will underperform and give Philly what they want

https://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/264379/76ers-Engaged-With-Nine-Known-Teams-One-Mystery-Team-On-Ben-Simmons-Trade

The Philadelphia 76ers remain engaged with nine known teams on a trade for Ben Simmons in addition to a 10th "mystery" team that is unclear even to members of Rich Paul.

The Cleveland Cavaliers, Detroit Pistons, Houston Rockets, Indiana Pacers, Minnesota Timberwolves, Portland Trail Blazers, San Antonio Spurs and Toronto Raptors are the nine known teams.


I only count 8, surprised Sacramento isn't listed
 

DisgruntledSoxFan77

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Doc trying his best to convince Ben to play ;)

https://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/264378/Ben-Simmons-Meets-With-Daryl-Morey-Doc-Rivers


Dating back to dialogues at the NBA Combine, Philadelphia has been adamant that they would withhold compensation from Simmons if he didn't report.

Later, at Rich Paul's home during the August meeting, Rivers even shouted, “It's in your f--king contract” to report and play for Philadelphia.



After a couple of months, an NBA team will underperform and give Philly what they want

https://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/264379/76ers-Engaged-With-Nine-Known-Teams-One-Mystery-Team-On-Ben-Simmons-Trade

The Philadelphia 76ers remain engaged with nine known teams on a trade for Ben Simmons in addition to a 10th "mystery" team that is unclear even to members of Rich Paul.

The Cleveland Cavaliers, Detroit Pistons, Houston Rockets, Indiana Pacers, Minnesota Timberwolves, Portland Trail Blazers, San Antonio Spurs and Toronto Raptors are the nine known teams.


I only count 8, surprised Sacramento isn't listed
There’s a “mystery team” sighting and nobody commented on it
 

JM3

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The Kings are the ninth team:

Philadelphia's most recent list of interested front offices, to varying degrees, still stands at nine known teams, sources said. In alphabetical order: Cleveland, Detroit, Houston, Indiana, Minnesota, Portland, Sacramento, San Antonio and Toronto have all remained engaged with Philadelphia.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/syndication.bleacherreport.com/amp/2949337-inside-ben-simmons-roller-coaster-return-to-philadelphia.amp.html

Heat potentially the 10th, but no sourcing on that.
 

benhogan

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There’s a “mystery team” sighting and nobody commented on it
a Boras "mystery team"?

If they were close to a trade there wouldn't be a need for this awkward Ben Simmons Homecoming Tour.

I suspect Morey isn't close to anything, told Klutch which led to Ben going back to cashing checks
 

terrynever

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I’m curious to see how Philly makes this work. Will Ben go through the motions? Will he distract the team from continuing to develop Tyrese Maxey and Isiah Joe, the second-round pick from 2020 who is a pure shooter from deep? Philly will end up with someone when Simmons does get traded but valuable time will be wasted. Of course, things don’t get serious in this league until March. The whole circus could cost Philly a high seed in the playoffs, not that they know what to do with it.
 

djbayko

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As I speculated on the pod with @DannyLeroux today, it appears based on reporting by @ramonashelburne that the delay in Ben Simmons passing health & safety protocols is due to not being vaccinated.
Wait. If this is true, then the very popular speculative swap of Simmons for Kyrie wouldn't even be possible. Unless Ben is smart enough to just get the fucking shot to get out of Philly and into a championship contender.
 

Jimbodandy

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I’m curious to see how Philly makes this work. Will Ben go through the motions? Will he distract the team from continuing to develop Tyrese Maxey and Isiah Joe, the second-round pick from 2020 who is a pure shooter from deep? Philly will end up with someone when Simmons does get traded but valuable time will be wasted. Of course, things don’t get serious in this league until March. The whole circus could cost Philly a high seed in the playoffs, not that they know what to do with it.
Not sure if this is any consolation, but the high seed in the playoffs is less important imo than getting the team right. Even with the Kyrie nonsense Brooklyn and Milwaukee are a clear top2, and then there's everyone else. Come spring, whether your guys are the 3 or 6 seed really shouldn't matter. Morey needs to get this done right, not necessarily quickly.
 

terrynever

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Not sure if this is any consolation, but the high seed in the playoffs is less important imo than getting the team right. Even with the Kyrie nonsense Brooklyn and Milwaukee are a clear top2, and then there's everyone else. Come spring, whether your guys are the 3 or 6 seed really shouldn't matter. Morey needs to get this done right, not necessarily quickly.
It has been reported that Morey is banking on Portland getting off to a slow start. Right now, Lillard wants to fix things out there but if he becomes disillusioned by January, he might want out.
 

Swedgin

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Ramona's Shelburne's new article has one heck of a tidbit, regarding Simmons almost missing Game 7 due to a Covid exposure. According to Shelburne, a team masseuse returned an inconclusive COVID-19 test. Players were asked whether they had seen her for treatment that day and only Simmons answered yes, and...

But according to multiple sources, many within the team questioned whether Simmons had actually seen the masseuse -- or was just trying to get out of playing as he battled the basketball version of the yips. Simmons had taken just 10 shots combined in Games 5 and 6 -- he'd averaged 11.6 shots a game over his career -- and had missed 16 of his previous 23 free throws.
Also has some new detail on the meeting where the team flew out to CA to meet with Simmons and Paul. Shelburne has Simmons offering the following rationale for wanting out:

His first three years in the league, the Sixers had such a bright spotlight on them and so much early success, he told them, that he didn't feel like he could make the mistakes other top draft picks were afforded. His growing pains were too public and consequential.

He needed to start over, he said, in a place where he "could make mistakes."
The overall gist of her take/reporting is that Simmons has deep-seated confidence issues.
 
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cheech13

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Jackie Mac has intimated something similar in her reporting, essentially saying Simmons can shoot just fine but that’s he so worried about not being seen as a great shooter that he won’t risk exposing himself as anything less.
 

johnmd20

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Jackie Mac has intimated something similar in her reporting, essentially saying Simmons can shoot just fine but that’s he so worried about not being seen as a great shooter that he won’t risk exposing himself as anything less.
.597 free throw percentage in his career. He is 5 for 34 from three in his career. He''s hit a total of 5 three pointers in 4 seasons.

He's been exposed and right now he cannot shoot just fine.
 

Big McCorkle

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Jackie Mac has intimated something similar in her reporting, essentially saying Simmons can shoot just fine but that’s he so worried about not being seen as a great shooter that he won’t risk exposing himself as anything less.
"I don't want to expose myself as a bad shooter, so I'm going to behave in a way that makes everybody think I'm a terrible shooter," is not a sensible approach to things. I doubt Simmons is stupid enough to think that way.
 

djbayko

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"I don't want to expose myself as a bad shooter, so I'm going to behave in a way that makes everybody think I'm a terrible shooter," is not a sensible approach to things. I doubt Simmons is stupid enough to think that way.
Yeah, it doesn't make much sense. He is a terrible shooter and/or has psychological issues about it. If that report has any merit, it sounds like it was just an excuse when cornered. I don't at all doubt him wanting a fresh start though. Frankly, I don't even blame him.
 

Swedgin

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"I don't want to expose myself as a bad shooter, so I'm going to behave in a way that makes everybody think I'm a terrible shooter," is not a sensible approach to things. I doubt Simmons is stupid enough to think that way.
Yeah, it doesn't make much sense. He is a terrible shooter and/or has psychological issues about it. If that report has any merit, it sounds like it was just an excuse when cornered. I don't at all doubt him wanting a fresh start though. Frankly, I don't even blame him.
You don't need to buy all of Shelburne's reporting to appreciate that people dealing with fear, anxiety and other mental health issues often act in ways that are contrary to their self- interest or even self-destructive. So whether its "stupid" or not, or makes "sense" or not is besides the point.

The narrative Shelburne paints is of someone who has been increasingly reluctant to do something he is not good/great at (i.e shoot the ball outside of floater range) as the stage has gotten bigger and the lights brighter. She has quotes from his high school coaches in Australia and in the U.S. They both described a player who was a willing shooter from mid-range (albeit with some mechanical issues). LSU is similar story, although there are a few anecdotes about passing out of shots at the end of a close game and fleeing the practice floor when scouts/executives who had publicly been down on him were present. Then he gets to the NBA and his rookie year, when expectations were still lowish (the Sixers over/under was 42,) represents the high water of his shooting volume from the mid-range.

Its definitely worth a read.
 

Cesar Crespo

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This is exactly what I’m thinking. Hard to trust a process that doesn’t appear to involve any due diligence on mental health with multiple first overall picks.
Seems like a weird comparison though. Simmons isn't exactly a bust and he still has an argument for being best player drafted in 2016. You can argue for Jaylen, Sabonis, Ingram, Murray, Siakam but he's there with them.

Fultz, not so much.
 

Cellar-Door

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I'll opt for ALL OF THEM.

The Philly media is going to be hungry to bury Ben. They know he's gone and taking the managements side is good business for a local reporter (not so much for the Woj/Shams "agent shills")
The radio hacks have to be excited, they're gonna get the local hack dream scenario.
They get to rip Ben.
They also get to rip Morey for not making a trade if the team starts slow
Then when Morey trades him for mediocre value, they get to rip him for a bad trade and say they told you so, if they traded him earlier they would have gotten more (even if it isn't true)
Then they get to rip the new guys for not being as good as Simmons (especially if he's good elsewhere)
 

Jimbodandy

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The radio hacks have to be excited, they're gonna get the local hack dream scenario.
They get to rip Ben.
They also get to rip Morey for not making a trade if the team starts slow
Then when Morey trades him for mediocre value, they get to rip him for a bad trade and say they told you so, if they traded him earlier they would have gotten more (even if it isn't true)
Then they get to rip the new guys for not being as good as Simmons (especially if he's good elsewhere)
I can't even imagine how bad the radio and beat reporter hacks are there. Ours are miserable pricks, and we win stuff in this town on a regular basis. Between the nature of the job and the city, Philly hacks must be awful.
 

benhogan

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The radio hacks have to be excited, they're gonna get the local hack dream scenario.
They get to rip Ben.
They also get to rip Morey for not making a trade if the team starts slow
Then when Morey trades him for mediocre value, they get to rip him for a bad trade and say they told you so, if they traded him earlier they would have gotten more (even if it isn't true)
Then they get to rip the new guys for not being as good as Simmons (especially if he's good elsewhere)
ha ha, good point.

Lots of chum for the hacks & their bloodthirsty fan base

In fairness how many times have the 76ers shot themselves in the foot over the last decade?
 

Cellar-Door

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View: https://twitter.com/ShamsCharania/status/1450494845559185409


Lol, Sixers suspend Ben for conduct detrimental.

What are we doing here? Morey is living out his Harden fantasies here I assume. You aren't going to bully Simmons into staying with fines, and now that he's in camp he's gonna be filing union protests on the fines, (which he might win, how do you determine "effort") or just "tweak" something and be out indefinitely with an injury. Him showing up was doing you a favor, now that he's here he can "Feel something in his back" and you have to pay him to not practice AND your trade partners can say "oh we're not sure about his health".

Morey is bad at player management and agent relations, and it's rearing it's head again.
 

bandito0

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I can't even imagine how bad the radio and beat reporter hacks are there. Ours are miserable pricks, and we win stuff in this town on a regular basis. Between the nature of the job and the city, Philly hacks must be awful.
I had the stream on because I was dying to listen to this...and it just broke that the team suspended Simmons for the opener for conduct detrimental to the team.

What a mess. I doubt he's talking today.

Edit: Confirmed he's not speaking to the media today. He got suspended because he got kicked out of practice today for not being engaged. Wow.
 

Cellar-Door

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I had the stream on because I was dying to listen to this...and it just broke that the team suspended Simmons for the opener for conduct detrimental to the team.

What a mess. I doubt he's talking today.

Edit: Confirmed he's not speaking to the media today. He got suspended because he got kicked out of practice today for not being engaged. Wow.
View: https://twitter.com/KyleNeubeck/status/1450496332892934146


He is indeed not.

View: https://twitter.com/wojespn/status/1450496839002714112


Edit- Doc threw him out of practice and they suspended him. Honestly none of these people know what they're doing, just hold him out and pay him. Yeah it sucks, but every time you force a confrontation you get nothing positive out of it in terms of his trade value, team morale, or agent relationships.
 

JCizzle

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None of these people know what they're doing includes Simmons and Klutch. They've misplayed this about as poorly as the Sixers have. It's BEAUTIFUL.
 

Cellar-Door

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None of these people know what they're doing includes Simmons and Klutch. They've misplayed this about as poorly as the Sixers have. It's BEAUTIFUL.
They did, but part of that seems to be because of how PHI handled it. PHI could have quietly traded him this offseason. They didn't because they thought his value was at it's lowest, and that they had some kind of leverage, so Simmons is showing them that... nope you don't have any... okay, you want to fine me... I'll show up, but you can't force me to practice or play hard, and we both know it, and for all the talk about how you want me here, if I went out and played 100% and got hurt, you're in even worse shape.
 

ElUno20

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Morey knew this was a problem when he took the job, he had a mountain of time before getting to this point. No sympathy for the sixers from me.
 

Cesar Crespo

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None of these people know what they're doing includes Simmons and Klutch. They've misplayed this about as poorly as the Sixers have. It's BEAUTIFUL.
Simmons is handling it perfectly for a guy who wants to get traded. He's going to force their hand by playing coach killer.

How can you really prove a guy isn't "engaged" or "dogging it?" Keep suspending him for a game? The union will fight it eventually.

It will get to the point where his relationship with Doc can't be fixed, so it's him or Doc. They CAN"T have him undermining Doc Rivers. Doc will lose the team very f'n quickly.
 

Swedgin

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Showing up and being difficult was always the path to forcing Morey's hand re timing of a trade. The question in my mind was whether Simmons could be that confrontational given his personality.

Sounds like he tried it for one day, albeit in his own style, by being "disengaged." Then, the team responded quickly and publically in an effort to nip it in the bud. If Simmons can keep it up, he will get out of their sooner rather than later. By being present he has the opportunity to be a constant ongoing distraction, in a way that can torpedo a season.
 

EvilEmpire

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Yeah, still entertained.

I wonder if Simmons can handle the stress of being in Philly if Doc and the 76ers don't coddle him while his situation gets worked out.

edit: Swedgin beat me to it. I think it is 50/50 that Simmons leaves the team on his own again.
 

johnmd20

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Showing up and being difficult was always the path to forcing Morey's hand re timing of a trade. The question in my mind was whether Simmons could be that confrontational given his personality.

Sounds like he tried it for one day, albeit in his own style, by being "disengaged." Then, the team responded quickly and publically in an effort to nip it in the bud. If Simmons can keep it up, he will get out of their sooner rather than later. By being present he has the opportunity to be a constant ongoing distraction, in a way that can torpedo a season.
Who would give up a king's ransom for this guy, tho?
 
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