Bedard: Dave DeGuglielmo not popular with Patriots OL

RedOctober3829

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The Patriots' underachieving offensive line has been a point of intense discussion locally in the last few days, and new offensive-line coach Dave DeGuglielmo -- who stepped this year as the replacement for the retired Dante Scarnecchia -- has come under some scrutiny.
And, apparently, that scrutiny is not entirely misplaced. 
"I think it's fair game," Greg Bedard, senior NFL writer at SI, said today on Felger & Mazz. Later, Bedard went further:
"I'll add this: The chatter that I'm hearing from around the Patriots is that he is not exactly popular with the players, and that it may have a factor in [Logan] Mankins saying, 'No, I'm not renegotiating my contract.' "
"That Mankins didn't want to stay and work with this guy?" asked Michael Felger.
"I've heard that from people who would know," replied Bedard.
"But everybody's got to be a professional," he continued. "Just because he's not [Scarnecchia] doesn't mean you can't work with him . . .
"The thing that impressed me about Scar, and you heard this from players, is he's a very good communicator. Yeah, he might be on you, but you know exactly what you're doing wrong and what you need to do to correct it . . .
"I have not talked with [DeGuglielmo], I haven't been around him; I don't know if he's the same way. But, you know, [Bill] Belichick put a lot of faith in him, and right now it doesn't look so good."
 
 





http://www.csnne.com/new-england-patriots/bedard-new-o-line-coach-unpopular-patriots-linemen
 

Stitch01

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Im taking the Mankins speculation with a giant, giant grain of salt given a)his past contract dealings and b) the fact that he is indeed getting paid his full salary this year somewhere else.  
 

Jimy Hendrix

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Not a lot of sourcing, and sounds suspiciously like exactly the same conclusion one might make as a total outsider who is worried about the line and looking at the easiest place to blame.

On the other hand, it sure as shit isn't good.
 

Shelterdog

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jsinger121 said:
The line would look a whole lot better if they benched Jordan Devey and started Stork. That is one thing I do know. Why they keep trotting out that stiff Devey is beyond me. He is a fucking JAG.
I don't understand the Devey love the pats have but stork missed a lot of preseason so I assume that's why they're brining him among slowly.
 

Kenny F'ing Powers

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jsinger121 said:
The line would look a whole lot better if they benched Jordan Devey and started Stork. That is one thing I do know. Why they keep trotting out that stiff Devey is beyond me. He is a fucking JAG.
 
And do what? Put Connolly at RG?
 
Stork/Connolly at C/RG isn't much of an upgrade (if it is at all) over Wendell/Connolly, and we've already seen those two perform below average this year (as well as last year).
 
Regardless of how good Stork is, he isn't the answer. The guard situation is still extremely unstable.
 

dcmissle

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See what we have missed through 14 years of sustained excellence? Ok, there have been blips. The year of no receivers. A year with street FAs in the secondary. But for the most part when they have struggled you could point to injuries as a major contributing factor.

This feels different because it involves two big weaknesses on the same side of the ball. And when you get this sort of thing, articles like this one routinely follow.
 

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I'm always suspicious when a writer drops a nugget like this on a regional radio show, but doesn't bother to put it in print, be it in a column or even on Twitter.
 

Stitch01

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It would be hard to write a column or tweet about it because there's no actual news embedded in the content.
 

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Kenny F'ing Powers said:
 
And do what? Put Connolly at RG?
 
Stork/Connolly at C/RG isn't much of an upgrade (if it is at all) over Wendell/Connolly, and we've already seen those two perform below average this year (as well as last year).
 
Regardless of how good Stork is, he isn't the answer. The guard situation is still extremely unstable.
 
I'd rather see Stork/Connolly at C and RG then Devey out there who has not done shit. I have to believe the only reason the coaching staff likes Devey is because he is a 6'6 guard. Other than that I have no idea what they see in him.
 

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Stitch01 said:
Im taking the Mankins speculation with a giant, giant grain of salt given a)his past contract dealings and b) the fact that he is indeed getting paid his full salary this year somewhere else.  
 
Yeah, Mankins doesn't seem like the kind of guy that wants to take a pay cut under any circumstances.  Including this anecdote belittles the entire point that the OL doesn't like the coach which sounds very possible.  
 

Kenny F'ing Powers

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jsinger121 said:
 
I'd rather see Stork/Connolly at C and RG then Devey out there who has not done shit. I have to believe the only reason the coaching staff likes Devey is because he is a 6'6 guard. Other than that I have no idea what they see in him.
 
I agree, although I didn't watch the game film from the Raiders game. 
 
I think this is simple. Wendell is still hurt, or they would role with him at center and Connolly at RG. The team doesn't trust having a rookie center call the shots on the line - especially one who missed so much time during the preseason - so they're currently rolling with Connolly over there. By the halfway point of the season, Wendell will be playing C (if healthy) or Stork will be playing C.
 

MainerInExile

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Kenny F'ing Powers said:
 
I agree, although I didn't watch the game film from the Raiders game. 
 
I think this is simple. Wendell is still hurt, or they would role with him at center and Connolly at RG. The team doesn't trust having a rookie center call the shots on the line - especially one who missed so much time during the preseason - so they're currently rolling with Connolly over there. By the halfway point of the season, Wendell will be playing C (if healthy) or Stork will be playing C.
 
Dan Koppen started right away.  I think Stork starts this week at the earliest, next week at the latest.  And I'm not saying they'll suddenly be world beaters, but upgrading two spots on the line ain't nothing.
 

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MainerInExile said:
 
Dan Koppen started right away.  I think Stork starts this week at the earliest, next week at the latest.  And I'm not saying they'll suddenly be world beaters, but upgrading two spots on the line ain't nothing.
 
But the difference is Stork missed over two weeks in the preseason of first team snaps. IIRC Koppen started from day 1.
 

MainerInExile

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Kenny F'ing Powers said:
The team doesn't trust having a rookie center call the shots on the line...
 
I was responding to this.
 
 
tims4wins said:
But the difference is Stork missed over two weeks in the preseason of first team snaps. IIRC Koppen started from day 1.
 
Yes, and that's why Stork didn't start week 1 like Koppen.  But I think it's time, and I don't think him being a rookie will stop them.
 

Super Nomario

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Kenny F'ing Powers said:
And do what? Put Connolly at RG?
 
Stork/Connolly at C/RG isn't much of an upgrade (if it is at all) over Wendell/Connolly, and we've already seen those two perform below average this year (as well as last year).
Sure, but if that was the weak part of the line (as it was last year), we'd take that at this point.
 
Kenny F'ing Powers said:
Regardless of how good Stork is, he isn't the answer. The guard situation is still extremely unstable.
How do you feel about Cannon at LG? Are his issues due to inexperience with the position, in your estimation, or do you think he's a guy who's better outside than inside?
 

tims4wins

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Saints Rest said:
Koppen took over in Week 2 due to injury.  But yes, he had participated in all of training camp.
 
Funny how many things were unresolved in week 1 that year (the 31-0 shellacking). Eugene Wilson didn't start at safety that week either. I think it was maybe Antawn Harris? Who started at C that game?
 
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tims4wins said:
 
Funny how many things were unresolved in week 1 that year (the 31-0 shellacking). Eugene Wilson didn't start at safety that week either. I think it was maybe Antawn Harris? Who started at C that game?
Harris did start at safety and Woody was at center
 

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We can talk about Devey all we want, and justifiably so, but the bigger issue is that the entire line, sans Vollmer is below average to terrible. Solder has been worse than Devey and Cannon is miscast as a guard as well. We have four Tackles and no fucking legitimate Guards.
 

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tims4wins said:
 
Funny how many things were unresolved in week 1 that year (the 31-0 shellacking). Eugene Wilson didn't start at safety that week either. I think it was maybe Antawn Harris? Who started at C that game?
 
And it appears we have officially arrived at the "They hate their coach" portion of the script.
 

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Ed Hillel said:
We can talk about Devey all we want, and justifiably so, but the bigger issue is that the entire line, sans Vollmer is below average to terrible. Solder has been worse than Devey and Cannon is miscast as a guard as well. We have four Tackles and no fucking legitimate Guards.
This a million times over! Solder has been terrible, he should be in his glory years, not regressing. Guards have to be quick to the point of attack, all these elephants have been slow.
 

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Given how bad this unit has been so far, and how some fairly proven guys have regressed (e.g. Solder), I'm surprised more fingers aren't starting to point at DeGuglielmo.  As far as I can tell from looking at the numbers, his offensive lines in Miami and New York didn't set the world on fire, either.
 
Belichick is far from a dummy, so he must see something in the guy, but from the outside it's hard to tell what that is.
 
 

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I don't blame the coaches one bit for Solder's performance.  He's a fourth year player who was a first round pick: he's far enough into his career that he should be performing at a fairly high level no matter who his coach is.  Playing Devey at all or Cannon at LG when you never used him at LG in games before? Find, reem the assistant coach, but the player (or injuries or fear of concussions or whatever) are to blame for Solder's horrid turn. 
 

wutang112878

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Even if this is true, this really isnt even news.  Their beloved Dante leaves and shocker the coach they bring in isnt as good and the players dont like him as much. 
 
 
bosox188 said:
 
And it appears we have officially arrived at the "They hate their coach" portion of the script.
 
This is a watered down version of that, exactly
 
 
jsinger121 said:
 
I'd rather see Stork/Connolly at C and RG then Devey out there who has not done shit. I have to believe the only reason the coaching staff likes Devey is because he is a 6'6 guard. Other than that I have no idea what they see in him.
 
During the preseason I thought this is DeGuglielmo's preference but now I just dont think he has any options.  They keep giving some snaps to Stork at C and it seems its so Connolly can move over because Devey is awful during the game.  It would seem less disruptive to have Kline active and fill in at G but he seems like a forgotten man.  I think they would play anyone who is competent at the moment, and I have to believe if Wendell was healthy he'd be starting.
 

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wutang112878 said:
During the preseason I thought this is DeGuglielmo's preference but now I just dont think he has any options.  They keep giving some snaps to Stork at C and it seems its so Connolly can move over because Devey is awful during the game.  It would seem less disruptive to have Kline active and fill in at G but he seems like a forgotten man.  I think they would play anyone who is competent at the moment, and I have to believe if Wendell was healthy he'd be starting.
 
Don't quite see how they don't have options. Kline was quite fine last year. Maybe something happened in the interim, but he was clearly superior to how Devey is playing. They have the option of Fleming. Or if neither Fleming nor Kline are up for it and there are truly 3 unplayable guards on the roster then you have to wonder why... and who constructed that roster. There is the option of Stork at C and Connolly at RG, as at the end of the last game. And who decided to trade Mankins if there was no one playable to take his slot? There had been that option. Lastly, if those 3 are unplayable (and not like Cannon has been good at the other guard spot), then there's the option of picking up some JAG type. The Eagles 2nd stringers on their O line held up well against a very good Washington D-Line...there are guys out there who could probably be decent.
 
There are options. The real question isn't that, rather it's what do they see in Devey that no one else sees? It must be something. I understand that Solder has been bad, too, but he has a very good track record that earns him patience. Devey...not so much.
 

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Scar weighs in
 
Edit: sounds like he is in support of trying guys out at different spots to find the best combo... wonder if that is the message he is conveying to BB and Gug as well.
 
"They're trying to build cohesiveness. That's what they're trying to do. It's not an easy thing to do. But it will happen if they're patient," Scarnecchia told Guregian. "They're trying to get guys in the right spots. To do that, it does take time."

Scarnecchia also expressed support for first-year offensive line coach Dave DeGuglielmo.

"Dave's a good coach, a real good coach. Those are good coaches there. They'll get it right. And the players want to get it right. And it'll happen," Scarnecchia told Guregian. "But it's going to take time.''
 

amarshal2

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tims4wins said:
Scar weighs in
 
Edit: sounds like he is in support of trying guys out at different spots to find the best combo... wonder if that is the message he is conveying to BB and Gug as well.
 
Offensive Line Jesus giveth the faith.

It sure doesn't look like cohesiveness is their biggest problem to me but compared to OLJ what do I know.
 

teddykgb

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Maybe this belongs more in the media forum but this is complete nonsense reporting.  They're making a story off statements said during a conversation on a radio broadcast.  Bedard wasn't "reporting" this, he was engaging in some informed speculation on a radio show.  It's hard to be overly upset at media members being taken out of context, it's almost hilarious, but this whole story seems extremely overblown relative to what was being discussed -- "I think it's fair game" is in reference to Felger essentially wondering if it's even OK to venture into this thought.  Bedard was hardly confirming this officially.
 
Maybe this is a reason for writers to stay off radio shows and vice versa, I don't know, but the rush to report this as actual news when it was presented as much less than that is really not helpful.
 

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teddykgb said:
Maybe this belongs more in the media forum but this is complete nonsense reporting.  They're making a story off statements said during a conversation on a radio broadcast.  Bedard wasn't "reporting" this, he was engaging in some informed speculation on a radio show.  It's hard to be overly upset at media members being taken out of context, it's almost hilarious, but this whole story seems extremely overblown relative to what was being discussed -- "I think it's fair game" is in reference to Felger essentially wondering if it's even OK to venture into this thought.  Bedard was hardly confirming this officially.
 
Maybe this is a reason for writers to stay off radio shows and vice versa, I don't know, but the rush to report this as actual news when it was presented as much less than that is really not helpful.
The problem is that when a reporter says things based on sources he absolutely it's reporting it. You can pretend you're not reporting by saying it's only something you're hearing (although he added it was from sources who would know) but they're really it's no difference between reporting facts on the radio and printing then on page one of the Boston Globe.
 

soxfan121

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tims4wins said:
Scar weighs in
 
Edit: sounds like he is in support of trying guys out at different spots to find the best combo... wonder if that is the message he is conveying to BB and Gug as well.
 
 
"I LIKE GOLF! I'M NOT COMING BACK!"
 

teddykgb

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Shelterdog said:
The problem is that when a reporter says things based on sources he absolutely it's reporting it. You can pretend you're not reporting by saying it's only something you're hearing (although he added it was from sources who would know) but they're really it's no difference between reporting facts on the radio and printing then on page one of the Boston Globe.
 
I won't derail any further on this thread after this post but I really don't agree.  Print reporting has an "officialness" to it that I don't ascribe to radio.  They're supposed to double source and if it's written it's got to be true.  The back and forth on radio is far more informal and I don't like the idea of publications listening to shows for interesting nuggets and turning them into things they aren't intended to be.  If Bedard really had this nailed down he wouldn't be revealing it on the radio, he'd publish it on his site and get all the traffic for it.  But he probably can't source it for certain and it isn't fit to print, which is fine.  Maybe that's a reason to not bring it up at all on the radio, but one of the more interesting things about the radio format for me is that guys who are in the know can go on there and riff a little bit, give their impressions over and above what they can double source and print.
 
Legitimately sorry for the derail, I won't belabor the point at all, I just wanted to clarify a bit.
 

wutang112878

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Tony C said:
 
Don't quite see how they don't have options. Kline was quite fine last year. Maybe something happened in the interim, but he was clearly superior to how Devey is playing.
 
I absolutely agree that Kline looked better and when we consider how Devey has played, it leads me to believe that something has happened that is stopping them from putting him back out there because otherwise I dont see how they wouldnt want to at least give Kline one game to start to see how that goes.
 
 
Tony C said:
 
They have the option of Fleming. Or if neither Fleming nor Kline are up for it and there are truly 3 unplayable guards on the roster then you have to wonder why... and who constructed that roster. There is the option of Stork at C and Connolly at RG, as at the end of the last game. And who decided to trade Mankins if there was no one playable to take his slot? There had been that option. Lastly, if those 3 are unplayable (and not like Cannon has been good at the other guard spot), then there's the option of picking up some JAG type. The Eagles 2nd stringers on their O line held up well against a very good Washington D-Line...there are guys out there who could probably be decent.
 
There are options. The real question isn't that, rather it's what do they see in Devey that no one else sees? It must be something. I understand that Solder has been bad, too, but he has a very good track record that earns him patience. Devey...not so much.
 
I think Fleming is just a T which is why I think we heard the rumblings about Vollmer they would have Solder / Vollmer / Wendell / Connolly / Cannon or with the Wendell injury: Solder / Vollmer / Connolly / Cannon / Fleming.  But even with all of Devey's struggles I dont think they have tried the last combination which leads me to believe that during practice they found that Vollmer couldnt play G.
 
As far as the roster construction post-Mankins I really dont think it was too bad.  My assumption is that they assumed the line would be the Solder / Vollmer / Wendell / Connolly / Cannon combination but the Wendell injury screwed that up.  I also believe their hope was to bring Devey, Kline and Stork along to hopefully be an upgrade over Wendell or Connolly but at the very least be competent enough that they could patch a line together with 1 of those 3 guys being a starter.  However, Devey seems incompetent and we have no idea what happened to Kline which seems to be why Stork is starting to get into the rotation.  I dont think there were serious talent / depth issues with the roster, it seems the biggest issue is that the line play overall has been very inconsistent with some established players (Hi Mr. Solder) not playing up to their talent level.
 

j44thor

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amarshal2 said:
Offensive Line Jesus giveth the faith.

It sure doesn't look like cohesiveness is their biggest problem to me but compared to OLJ what do I know.
 
The problem is time is not on Brady's side.  Each week the hits pile up and I'm sure they hurt a bit more now than when he was a 25yo kid.
Not to mention that outside of MIA we haven't exactly played a murders row of D yet.  Next two games are very scary not just for W-L but for the overall health of Brady.  KC in KC followed by a rested CIN team on a short week - Yikes.
 

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I dont know $hit about OL coaching....but it seems reasonable to think....
 
If Solder was able to handle the RDE 1-1 then the LG  Could now assist the C with the RDT.
Because Solder has been incapable of that the LG has had to choose whether to help Solder or the C.
That all leaves Volmer 1-1 with the LDE and the RG (Devey) 1-1 with the other LDT.
Hence all kinds of confusion with "when just rushing 4".
 
Its no wonder that
1. Cannon has looked confused and ineffective
2. Devey has been beaten like a rented mule
3. Whoever playing center has been little more then a speed bump.
4. Volmer is actually looking "normal/capable" as he is the only one doing what he should normally be doing.
 
Fix Solder and I think this line gets alot better as you can then patch the middle 3 guys into a unit to block the DTs.
 
So just that simple....fix Solder.  heh.
 

soxfan121

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j44thor said:
 
The problem is time is not on Brady's side.  Each week the hits pile up and I'm sure they hurt a bit more now than when he was a 25yo kid.
Not to mention that outside of MIA we haven't exactly played a murders row of D yet.  Next two games are very scary not just for W-L but for the overall health of Brady.  KC in KC followed by a rested CIN team on a short week - Yikes.
 
Oakland is far better defensively than most people think. And the NASCAR front has always given the Pats blocking scheme problems, stretching back many seasons.
 
I agree, KC and CIN will be big challenges but I don't know what they can do about the time issue. Game plan around it as much as possible but Scarnecchia is right - this is going to take familiarity and practice. Unless someone has a time machine. 
 

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Oakland is 16th in DVOA and going lower once opponent adjustments for the Jets, Pats, and Texans kick in , were 25th in DVOA last year, 27th the year before.  They're 20th overall by cumulative points on PFF this year.  If the perception is that they're one of the very worst defenses in the league that's probably too harsh, but its a shitty defense.
 

soxfan121

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Oakland is 16th in DVOA and going lower once opponent adjustments for the Jets, Pats, and Texans kick in , were 25th in DVOA last year, 27th the year before.  They're 20th overall by cumulative points on PFF this year.  If the perception is that they're one of the very worst defenses in the league that's probably too harsh, but its a shitty defense.
 
Fair. They aren't "one of the very worst" but they'll still be below-average when the dust settles. 
 
And their style is a shitty matchup for the Patriots blocking scheme, making them better against the Pats than "generic opponent". 
 

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bakahump said:
I dont know $hit about OL coaching....but it seems reasonable to think....
 
If Solder was able to handle the RDE 1-1 then the LG  Could now assist the C with the RDT.
Because Solder has been incapable of that the LG has had to choose whether to help Solder or the C.
That all leaves Volmer 1-1 with the LDE and the RG (Devey) 1-1 with the other LDT.
Hence all kinds of confusion with "when just rushing 4".
 
 
No.
 

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soxfan121 said:
 
"I LIKE GOLF! I'M NOT COMING BACK!"
subtext - I'm not coming back as a coach. You want to bring me back as a consultant for tall dollars, well, call my agent
 

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Shelterdog said:
The problem is that when a reporter says things based on sources he absolutely it's reporting it. You can pretend you're not reporting by saying it's only something you're hearing (although he added it was from sources who would know) but they're really it's no difference between reporting facts on the radio and printing then on page one of the Boston Globe.
Yeah - I want to know whether the team has lost confidence in DeGugliemo or whether Bedard has bad sources and is repeating a faulty rumor. I don't know the answer. I did click on an MMQB Bedard story yesterday where the headline said Harbaugh had lost the 49ers locker room. The story contained no sourced info at all. It was an analysis of the body language of players and coaches that Bedard had seen on TV. I was surprised at the byline as Bedard has been good in the past, and then I saw this thread today. Probably that's apropos of very little as Bedard has better sources here than in SF.

Article:
http://mmqb.si.com/2014/09/22/san-francisco-49ers-loss-arizona-cardinals-week-3-trouble-ahead/
 

soxfan121

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jimv said:
subtext - I'm not coming back as a coach. You want to bring me back as a consultant for tall dollars, well, call my agent
 
That's very clear - he is working as a consultant (how else would he know about DeGuglielmo's coaching style?) and is not coming back to coaching full-time. 
 
And I doubt the dollars need to be very tall; the guy is a football lifer and going from 80-100 hour work weeks to a few hours of consulting is probably necessary so he doesn't have a nervous breakdown from going cold-turkey.
 

wutang112878

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Cant find a better place for this, Reiss seems very critical off the entire offensive line here, its pretty rare that he makes digs like this:
 
Q. The offensive line is obviously struggling and the Pats have been mixing combinations so far this year. Do you think it's possible they move Nate Solder to left guard and Marcus Cannon to left tackle? Cannon seems to be more comfortable at tackle and Solder is a great run blocker, but gets burned off the edge constantly. Would the team ever consider this even though they just picked up his team option for 2015. -- Jonathan (Waltham, Massachusetts)

A. Jonathan, I don't think the option as part of the contract would have anything to do with their decision. I think anything is on the table because what we saw Sunday against the Raiders was not acceptable from the entire offensive line. You can include every single player in the mix because they all had Football 101-type breakdowns that, to be frank, made it look like they hardly practiced leading into the game. I think you have to give some credit to the Raiders, but I'd also say that I believe the players can do better than that. I'd be surprised if it's Solder moving to guard, but I don't think we can dismiss anything at this point.