BBtL Discussion: Slated for Off-season

[Conigliaro's Potential]

I think it's fair to say that almost nobody who isn't a Pats fan wants New England to win the Super Bowl at this point. Neutrals have many reasons to root for the Jags, Eagles and Vikings, and the villainous narrative that has attached itself to the Patriots - mostly for bogus reasons, but still - means that you'd have to be a real front-runner to not be from New England and still want the Patriots to win.

But that's not really why I've created this thread. The Falcons-Eagles game on Saturday was a depressing experience for me, as I'm sure would be obvious to anyone who knows where my allegiances lie. But one of the most depressing aspects was a continuation in the Divisional Round gamethread of the the seeming random hate from several Patriot fans toward Atlanta and the Falcons. For example:

Rooting for Philly to deliver some soul crushing misery to Atlanta because I'm just a mean person.

>I feel badly for people in GA.

Fuck those traitors. Let them crash.

Now, it's hard for me to think of douchier, more Yankees-like fan behavior than this sort of entitled hatred of random teams for little or no good reason. Perhaps I should just steer of SoSH gamethreads involving Atlanta sports teams going forward, but I've certainly noticed other posters here take random shots at the Falcons and Atlanta throughout the season - some merited, some rather less so. And after a day or two of reflection, I've been thinking about why and how sports fans come to feel ill will toward other teams and their fans. So let me propose a baker's dozen reasons why one might root against or even hate another team, in a way which is fundamentally different from rooting for your own team, and open the floor to others to fill in any other reasons I might be missing:

1) The other team is playing your team. Close enough to rooting for your own team to be indistinguishable in most circumstances...although particularly from my time attending and observing British soccer matches, it never ceases to amaze me how some fans seem to relish hating other teams and fans (in truly foul ways) much more than cheering their own teams.

2) The other team could be a future threat to your team. You wanted the Steelers to lose to the Jags (or even for the Falcons to lose to the Eagles) because you thought the Jags (Eagles) would give the Pats an easier route to the Super Bowl? Completely fair enough.

3) The other team is a rival (or arch-rival) for historical reasons. Humans are tribal, and sports are generally a more productive outlet for that tribalism than most. Because I'm a Falcons fan, the schadenfreude I felt in watching the Saints lose as they did last night was significant - just as Red Sox fans will always enjoy the Yankees losing, etc.

4) The other team has players or coaches who have misbehaved in some way. The other team's quarterback is a suspected rapist? The other team's front office hacked the computer systems of another team and got lightly punished for it? The other team's coach (or ex-coach) got wrapped up in an NCAA recruiting scandal? All fair enough, at least to some extent.

5) The other team has former players or coaches from your team who left on less than civil terms. Completely understandable.

6) The other team used to be your team before it relocated to a different city. Even more completely understandable - probably as good a reason as any on this list.

7) The other team is a Goliath playing a David. Everyone loves an underdog.

8) The other team is a David playing a Goliath. This can make sense if you're a front-runner and/or like seeing sport played at the highest level it can be played - e.g., maybe you like watching Barcelona or Spain at peak efficiency in soccer, and want their opponents to suffer brilliant defeats at their hands. (A lot of Tiger Woods fans seemed to feel this way about his opponents in a similar fashion when he was at peak form.)

9) The other team's fans are dicks. Subjective, of course, but it's like the tried and true definition of pornography: we know what dickish fan behavior is when we see it.

10) The other team, or a player on it, is in a position to create history at your team's expense. Maybe you were rooting against the Rams or Eagles at certain points this season because Todd Gurley or Carson Wentz were threatening to steal the MVP award away from Tom Brady, or maybe you want the Lakers to lose primarily because you don't want them to be thought of as on the same historical level as the Celtics.

11) The other team has offended you by not playing the game right in some way. I saw a lot of this in around the Falcons-Eagles game - the "LOL Falcons" (or "LOL Eagles") comments and their equivalents were off the charts at times, for both teams played pretty stupid football at times.

12) The other team suffered an epic loss to your team, and you delight in re-living the schadenfreude over and over again. I guess this is what's going on with some Pats fans and the Falcons? I suppose it makes sense, but it certainly isn't very nice.

13) The other isn't your team, period. Some people don't need a reason to be (M)assholes.

Now, I'd like to think that in an ideal world, the better your team is doing and the more games and indeed titles it is winning, your level of sporting malice and your desire to root against other teams for most if not all of the above reasons would wither. So, for example, when you're a fan of the team that has won five Super Bowls this century and two of the last three, and you have the best quarterback of all time and the best coach of all time still on your team and performing incredibly well, perhaps you might feel more charitable toward the sporting world and feel more love and less hate in general - particularly if you were a Red Sox fan 14 years ago who remembers what the shoe being on the other foot feels like. Alas, this clearly isn't the way fandom works for many people. The quote cited in All the Money in the World comes to mind - when J. Paul Getty is asked "How much is enough?", his response is simply, "More."

So, in addition to wondering if there are other reasons, valid or otherwise, for rooting against other teams that aren't listed above, let me ask this: what place does hatred of other teams (and/or their fans) have in your sporting fandom? Do you ever wish you personally could dislike other teams less? And with regard to the Patriots, to what extent - if any - do you think the Pats fanbase may have become too Yankees-like? (I have my own thoughts on these questions, but for now I'll hang up and listen.)

 

[johnmd20]

You quoted two people, I've never heard of either one.

Nobody was outwardly rude to you before, during, or after the Super Bowl last year. If anything, people were generally supportive, considering this is a Boston Sports Board. It's a game thread, people say stupid things. There is no doubt Philly was getting mocked, too.

 

[E5 Yaz]

You quoted two people, I've never heard of either one.

Nobody was outwardly rude to you before, during, or after the Super Bowl last year. If anything, people were generally supportive, considering this is a Boston Sports Board. It's a game thread, people say stupid things. There is no doubt Philly was getting mocked, too.

On the other hand, I think his avatar is well chosen

 

[nighthob]

I think people hate Atlanta for other reasons than the fact that they played the Patriots in the Super Bowl. Atlanta natives themselves seem to hate it more than most others if the Olympic slogan contest voting is any indication. (Also that second quote seems far more likely driven by partisan politics than the hapless Falcons.)

 

[54thMA]

Nobody was outwardly rude to you before, during, or after the Super Bowl last year. If anything, people were generally supportive, considering this is a Boston Sports Board. It's a game thread, people say stupid things.

This.

Numerous people on this Boston Sports Board have gone out of their way to be nice to you before, during and especially after the Super Bowl like John said.

Don't take anything said in a game thread to heart would be my advice.

As far as the Falcons; I was rooting for them to lose because of the obvious; if the Patriots and Falcons met in a SB rematch, the Falcons would be on a mission and that's the last thing as a Patriots fan I wanted to see.

Drew Brees with the ball in his hands down 4 with 2:00 minutes to play would be the second to last thing as a Patriots fan I'd want to see.

It's nothing personal; this is sports afterall, the toy box of life.............................

 

[DJnVa]

Here's a reason you are missing:

It's sports, it does not have to be rational. You're creating rules for who fans should root for? That misses the point for me.

For instance, I don't actually have malice towards people from Pittsburgh. But I enjoyed the "sports misery" of that guy swearing at the TV in the video posted. In fact, I was kind of rooting for something like that to see another episode. In things that actually matter? I hope that guy has a great fucking life.

Now, if *he* cannot separate sports from real life that's on him.

 

[Red Averages]

It wouldn’t shock me if the fan base picked up a few “hold me back” type of people who are loud when things are well protected for them (Pats good) but clearly they aren’t watching for the right reasons if their way of having fun (celebrating) is trying to rile up others.

I’ll also add you’re already getting jumped on here, which is fairly dumb in my opinion given all of the Atlanta/Georgia hate post super bowl. Instead of just celebrating the win people carry around celebrating the Atlanta collapse, kind of proving my point in paragraph 1.

It's a minority of the fan base, but as with my metaphor earlier, they can be loud and attention seeking which is frustrating for everyone.

 

[Ale Xander]

CP, you're overreacting.

 

[Reverend]

I think people hate Atlanta for other reasons than the fact that they played the Patriots in the Super Bowl. Atlanta natives themselves seem to hate it more than most others if the Olympic slogan contest voting is any indication. (Also that second quote seems far more likely driven by partisan politics than the hapless Falcons.)

A bunch of the anti-Georgia posts were about Trump.

It may have been annoying to some and largely pointless to get political posts in the game threads, but it seems important to note that that’s a separate phenomenon.

 

[Jnai]

This post is like 28 paragraphs too long. Can you post the 3 sentence version.

 

[Reverend]

This post is like 28 paragraphs too long. Can you post the 3 sentence version.

Yankees suck.

 

[Ralphwiggum]

Arguably Patriots fans would have been doing #12 on your list if they had been rooting against the Eagles, so we were screwed either way.

Why would you care who Patriot fans were rooting for in a game thread anyway?

 

[Jim Ed Rice in HOF]

In the quoted posts, BTR comes right out and says he's a mean person. Maybe he's just wishing some more misery gets heaped on after 28-3 and UGA. Not sure it's really city dependent, if another city had been defeated like that in the last two football championships maybe he'd be rooting for that city to get further demoralized. It fits right into #12.

As for your question about wanting to dislike teams less, nope, it hasn't crossed my mind. Watching the Yankees lose is always enjoyable. Watching the Steelers lose yesterday was awesome as well. If you have a rooting interest chances are there's an opponent that your team plays that is a natural rival. Wanting to see that team lose frequently (and yes, in heart wrenching fashion) is a feature not a bug in sports fandom.

 

[TheoShmeo]

To answer some of your questions:

- Having sports villains is fun. I remember as a kid totally hating World B. Free, Bill Laimbeer, Thurman Munson, the Yankees, the Canadiens and the Lakers. Both rooting for my team and against other teams were part of why being a sports fan was fun and why it grew in me and never left. I think the common denominator is the pleasure and engagement that comes from having intense emotions. I have grown to hate Mike Tolmlin and these Steelers given all of their talk. I also thought the Jags would be an easier out. For both reasons, I was much more engaged yesterday during the earlier game. And to that point, Drew Brees is probably my favorite non-Boston/NE athlete in sports and yet I was, if anything, rooting for the Vikings because Brees scares me more than Keenum.

- I do not wish I could dislike the Yankees, Lakers, Jets, Giants and Canadiens less. To the contrary, that I hate them makes watching their games much more interesting. It creates an active rooting interest. The T Shirt that says "I have two favorite teams, the Red Sox and Whoever is playing the Yankees" is 100% true. Why would I want to be less engaged when I watch a game that does not involve my team?

- I think the "Pats fans as Yankees fans" meme is overstated. Now, yes, of course, the Pats, like the Yankees, have enjoyed incredible success. Many Pats fans have been raised on phenomenal success. But I grew up in Massachusetts and have lived in NJ and worked in NYC since 1994, and I think I have a reasonable basis for observing both sets of fans. I also have a lot of friends and family in New England. My take, and I might be biased and probably am, is that there is generally a more entitled streak in Yankees fans than Pats fans. I don't know why but it's a sense I get. Yankees fans seem to enjoy bullying more. When you leave Yankee Stadium after a Sox win, the locals are very quiet; after a win they are total assholes. I have never seen, though I may have missed it, Pats fans doing the same thing to visiting fans after a tough loss. Another factor is age. When you deal with younger Pats fans who have only enjoyed success, you are likely dealing with a different kind of fan than when you deal with someone of my generation, who experienced a whole lot of Pats' stink and horrible near misses over the years. The Yankees have been great, on and off, forever and that itself might breed a different kind of fan.

- You didn't specifically ask this but I will share my reason for rooting heavily against the Falcons since last season. It's random and likely not reflective of others' views. But I was lucky enough to be at the last SB and unfortunate enough to be in a section that was almost purely Atlanta fans. I was totally surrounded. Given how the game went, my group of six was never loud. Nonetheless, as Atlanta built its lead, the fans around us were total, unmitigated assholes to us; with finger pointing and taunting on a consistent basis. Now you might say that's how it is at Super Bowls and that could be true. But that was not my experience at the Seattle game, where the fans of both teams seemed pretty good with each other, or even at the Giants games (though there was one fan in particular who was quite jerky to my kids). I can chalk this up to small sample size and I know from having lived in Atlanta for three years that Atlanta people are generally quite nice. But the douche bag factor was very high that night in Glendale and for that reason the Falcons have joined the pantheon of truly hated teams. That Quinn reminds me so much of Poodle Pete also factors in, but I digress.

One last comment. I think you should lighten up. This board treats visiting fans extremely well. We have Yankees Fan Moderators and Dopes for goodness sake. There are fans of the Yankees, Raiders, Dolphins, Jets (though not many), Cowboys, Broncos and other teams who are regular contributors to threads here and I who I think are treated well by most, if not all, of us. It's bad form to show up the day after their team beats the Pats or Sox and gloat, but I don't remember having seen that much here. I also don't recall people taking shots at you. If they don't like your team, for whatever reason, well that's part of being a sports fanatic.

 

[NortheasternPJ]

I've had a few Pats fans (including my father) say something along those lines about fuck Atlanta! I asked them why and no one really had an answer. It was kind of odd.

I'm hoping the Pats win the Super Bowl, but if they don't I don't have any malice towards any of the teams left. Now if Pitt was involved, that'd be out the window. Fuck those guys. They break a number of your rules, so they can go fuck themselves.

 

[BornToRun]

I'd like to offer an explanation for my comment if I may. My desire to see the Falcons lose is, primarily, for two reasons.

1. I think we all take delight in schadenfreude here and it's something sports fans take part in in general. After all, every fanbase seems to enjoy ripping on the Browns for example.

2. Everybody who isn't a Patriots fan hates the Patriots. There are 31 other fanbases who hate watching our team succeed. If the Falcons had held on, the NFL following public would be lapping our tears by the bucketful. The way I see it, if they're going to enjoy it when it's us who lose then why can't I take delight in their defeat?

 

[Red Averages]

I'd like to offer an explanation for my comment if I may. My desire to see the
2. Everybody who isn't a Patriots fan hates the Patriots. There are 31 other fanbases who hate watching our team succeed. If the Falcons had held on, the NFL following public would be lapping our tears by the bucketful. The way I see it, if they're going to enjoy it when it's us who lose then why can't I take delight in their defeat?

Well you can enjoy the ride, or join the birds in shitting all over the park.

 

[DennyDoyle'sBoil]

That gamethread was very long. You have a lot of people trying to make others laugh. You're citing one guy who is a lurker getting his feet wet in gamethreads and not really yet understanding the sensibilities of the place. I remember a decade ago thinking, wait, on this semi-serious message board you can really say you want someone to die in a fire? BTR was partly tongue in cheek.

80 pages of gamethreading on a Patriots message board and there is going to be some broken eggs that people thought would be omlettes.

There are shit fans of all teams. This place is generally pretty respectful of non-trolling Opposing fans. Maybe we are Yankees fans, I dunno. But I think you're looking for something shiny, as one does, after one's team takes a bad beat.

 

[8slim]

The difference between New York fans and New England fans is simple: the latter have a sense of humor, generally speaking. Most Pats fans I know who act obnoxious do so with a wink. Most NY fans I know who act obnoxious are obnoxious.

Aside from that let's be clear... no one really gives a shit about Atlanta teams. I feel the same about the Falcons as I do the Thrashers and Flames.

 

[E5 Yaz]

The difference between New York fans and New England fans is simple: the latter have a sense of humor, generally speaking. Most Pats fans I know who act obnoxious do so with a wink. Most NY fans I know who act obnoxious are obnoxious.

Aside from that let's be clear... no one really gives a shit about Atlanta teams. I feel the same about the Falcons as I do the Thrashers and Flames.

Maybe if Atlanta got an NBA team, and Celtics fans starting bashing it, then, maybe, there might be a point

 

[8slim]

Maybe if Atlanta got an NBA team, and Celtics fans starting bashing it, then, maybe, there might be a point

Tree Rollins weeps.

 

[E5 Yaz]

Tree Rollins weeps.

Well, he does have pieces of Danny Ainge in his stool

 

[rodderick]

Are we now cherry picking a couple of comments out of a gamethread to make an indictment of the whole fanbase? Then there's the whole "how to be a sportsfan" manifesto to boot. Christ...

 

[shepard50]

Meh. It's all part of it. As we prepared for the superbowl last year, my girls and I walked around Atlanta doing errands. I had my Pats shirt on. Pretty much everywhere we went we had strangers arching their arms and yelling "RISE UP!" in our faces. The girls thought it was hilarious (they are 10, 8 and 5). After the game they all wanted Patriots T-shirts and they got them, (I will enable any sports fandom my girls show.)

Of course, at school the other kids went crazy when they wore them. Which was fine because the girls would just smile and say "Do your job, Tom Brady did..."

They will also comment to any random stranger they see in a Yankees hat with: "Yankees suck".

Short of violence, rivalry is fun.

 

[judyb]

The difference between New York fans and New England fans is simple: the latter have a sense of humor, generally speaking. Most Pats fans I know who act obnoxious do so with a wink. Most NY fans I know who act obnoxious are obnoxious.

Aside from that let's be clear... no one really gives a shit about Atlanta teams. I feel the same about the Falcons as I do the Thrashers and Flames.

The rest of the world doesn't get Masshole humor, even when they're not funny, other New Englanders can usually tell that they are trying to be.

 

[luckiestman]

The rest of the world doesn't get Masshole humor

Tell me about it

 

[Byrdbrain]

Are we now cherry picking a couple of comments out of a gamethread to make an indictment of the whole fanbase? Then there's the whole "how to be a sportsfan" manifesto to boot. Christ...

I’d say this pretty much sums up my thoughts.
There is obviously no way I read that whole thing but from what I gathered by skimming the post that sums up my thoughts at least.

 

[judyb]

Tell me about it

Nothing matters but funny, except only occasionally smart or generous, no one cares about nice, polite, or friendly.

 

[Conigliaro's Potential]

Well...to answer my own final question, one main difference I see between Yankees fans and Patriots (and Red Sox) fans is that the latter tend to be more defensive, not least for having suffered more scars down the years than the Yankees in relative terms. So it's nice to see that being borne out here. (I'm glad that at least the "ESPN Hit Piece" thread has started to die down slightly...talk about overreactions.)

I meant to use my OP - which I admit is probably too whiny - to trigger a more general discussion about what it means to be a sports fan and how negativity and hate factors into that. I'm glad at least some of you have moved beyond my intentionally provocative thread title and have looked at the meat on the bones. For the record, I'm not stupid: I know this is a Boston-centric site, and of course most people here are going to be Pats fans. And most people here are intellectual and decent, which is why I have stayed long after my own Red Sox and Patriots fandom began to fade from where they were in the first half of last decade. But still...there's a 1,741-post (and counting) thread called "The Nation's Tears" which dates back less than 12 months. And while I'm capable of moving past the hundreds of variations on "28-3" I've read over the past 11 months, I can't envision ever making that sort of comment myself were the tables ever turned. I'm sad, for example, that the Cleveland Indians have never won a World Series and have never taken any joy out of the fact that the Braves helped keep it that way: I'm delighted the Braves won a championship, period.

Are we now cherry picking a couple of comments out of a gamethread to make an indictment of the whole fanbase? Then there's the whole "how to be a sportsfan" manifesto to boot. Christ...

I don't really mean to lecture anyone on how to be a sports fan - many paths are valid. Some paths are meaner than others, and I wish there was less meanness in the world, and I wish Bill Simmons' five-year rule for fans who have won a title was a little less theoretical for fans of teams who have won multiple titles in recent years, and I wish people were generally less tribal (particularly in politics but also in sports). But ultimately, I'm interested in better understanding what makes you tick if you're a fan who enjoys or embraces sporting malice. "It's more fun that way" is a perfectly fair response, but if there's more to it than that, I'm interested hearing why. I certainly find the comments by Falcons fans after this article just as awful as I would if they were made by fans of other teams (particularly the guy who took great pride in trolling Saints fans at the SBNation Saints fan site)...and from seeing more than my fair share of contorted faces bulging with rage and profanity at soccer matches over the years, it certainly doesn't seem like "more fun" to them.

 

[5dice]

11) The other team has offended you by not playing the game right in some way. I saw a lot of this in around the Falcons-Eagles game - the "LOL Falcons" (or "LOL Eagles") comments and their equivalents were off the charts at times, for both teams played pretty stupid football at times.

I believe this angle made some Patriots fans upset during the Superbowl. ATL players over-celebrating during the game, prematurely dancing on the Patriots' grave, Arthur Blank with his cartoon suit on the damn field itself, acting like a giddy schoolchild ready to pounce on his moment in the limelight well before the game was over. It felt kind of disrespectful at the time and the subsequent miked up footage of players like Sanu and others reinforces it.

Not every team has to act like the Patriots (pushback I often hear from the Dolphins thread), but I think we are all accustomed to "act like you've been there before" and so many NFL teams just don't, even if they have been there before (hi, Steelers).

 

[Conigliaro's Potential]

I believe this angle made some Patriots fans upset during the Superbowl. ATL players over-celebrating during the game, prematurely dancing on the Patriots' grave, Arthur Blank with his cartoon suit on the damn field itself, acting like a giddy schoolchild ready to pounce on his moment in the limelight well before the game was over. It felt kind of disrespectful at the time and the subsequent miked up footage of players like Sanu and others reinforces it.

Not every team has to act like the Patriots (pushback I often hear from the Dolphins thread), but I think we are all accustomed to "act like you've been there before" and so many NFL teams just don't, even if they have been there before (hi, Steelers).

You make some valid points here - just as TheoShmeo shared a story outlining a personal and highly understandable reason for hating Atlanta. But re: the bolded, I keep seeing this raised over and over by people who don't seem to realize that Arthur Blank *always* goes down to the sideline at the end of games. That's what he does. He wasn't prematurely heading down to the field at the end of the Super Bowl to celebrate as such - he was going down to the field to be with his team at the end of the game, just like normal. I understand why this has become part of the post-SB51 mythology, but it really shouldn't be.

 

[bankshot1]

A Falcon's fan posts on a predominantly Pats fan forum and he sees some posts ragging on the Falcons, and is upset?.
I may be wrong but IMO that's the way it should be.

At the heart of the issue is that posts you seem upset with, (break their hearts, crush their souls, etc) is a combination of fear/respect that a team who if not for shitting their pants for over a half of football and then the coach losing his mind in the last couple of minutes of regulation, would have beaten the Pats in SB LI. And this team that shit in their pants, and who's coach suffered from demential seemed to be getting it straightened out this year, an no one wanted to deal with them in the post-season. They could have been a team on a mission.

Sports hate is not entirely rational, however in this instance, its entirely waranted.

I'm just glad the Falcons shit their pants again in Philly.

And fuck the MFYs.

 

[streeter88]

You make some valid points here - just as TheoShmeo shared a story outlining a personal and highly understandable reason for hating Atlanta. But re: the bolded, I keep seeing this raised over and over by people who don't seem to realize that Arthur Blank *always* goes down to the sideline at the end of games. That's what he does. He wasn't prematurely heading down to the field at the end of the Super Bowl to celebrate as such - he was going down to the field to be with his team at the end of the game, just like normal. I understand why this has become part of the post-SB51 mythology, but it really shouldn't be.

CP, all of this said -- and I felt it at the time as well -- I gained great respect for Matt Ryan after the game standing at the podium while clearly still trying to process what had just happened, and taking responsibility for what had just happened. The moment was incredibly powerful, and humbling. And it is in stark contrast to whatever the Steelers are doing today (Mitchell and Bell not showing up for interviews) and yesterday, with BigBen trying to throw shade on Haley.

Character matters. And I think the Falcons showed great character. And they continued to show it by getting back to the playoffs this year, advancing, and scaring the crap out of me and many other Pats fans.

 

[RetractableRoof]

So you a) are saying you intentionally chose a provocative title b) cherry picked two examples from a game thread (which is the one place the dopes allow for more free wheeling or out of their minds posting) by two posters who are relative unknowns (one of which acknowledged in his post he was being mean), and were hoping to start a broad discussion about fandom and c) ignored the number of fans who did mention that if the Patriots didn't win, they'd like to see Atlanta win. Huh. Then in your followup post you label the fandom as defensive as proven by the responses to your provocation. Weird results there. Be sure to publish a paper on this one.

I believe in some quarters that would be called a dick move... but hey, I'm a transplanted masshole so, as you've stated - biased to the defensive. Maybe you've studied the media approach of Dan Shaughnessy... if not, boy you are a natural.

All that said, in my experience most fans respond in kind to other fan bases, in a golden rule sort of way. I don't know anyone that generates any sort of hate towards the St. Luis Cardinals for example - even though historically they beat the Sox twice in World Series matchups. Their fan base seems to run towards baseball fans that are decent people, and don't engender the animosity others do. However, in their exuberance, many Atlanta fans who found themselves on social media and into my social circle approached 'obnoxious' in the run up to the game last year. So there was a fair amount of shadenfreude when they lost - and in such heart wrenching fashion. That said, it seemed to die down quickly and I don't know many who carry a grudge against Falcon fans - no matter what game threads here might have thrown out against any team, including the Falcons. To read and infer much more against any single team (outside of core rivalries) seems a real reach on my end, but again, you've already labeled us as defensive massholes...

Edit: There are outliers in any group, any profession, any affinity cluster. If one wants to characterize an entire fan base, cherry picking outliers (especially in a thread noted and earmarked for its more permissive nature) isn't going to lend itself to a quality broad based discussion. The topic is worthy of discussion, but starting by lobbing a grenade...

 

[Bunt4aTriple]

Don't worry CP. Everything isn't quite as bad as it seems (probably).

 

[E5 Yaz]

Jesus H Tap Dancing Murphy In A Chicken Basket On A Cracker

 

[Ale Xander]

Well, he does have pieces of Danny Ainge in his stool

This is your best work

 

[DJnVa]

But we really did want to burn down Seattle.

 

[E5 Yaz]

Don't worry CP. Everything isn't quite as bad as it seems (probably).

His posts are

 

[bernardsamuel]

CP, one preliminary comment: since I enjoy your diary-commentary so much, you are not a faceless fan to me, and I actually tend to cheer for announcers, e.g. Mike Gorman was a high-school classmate, and Dick Stockton called the 1975 Fisk HR, so I'll always wish him well. ...just as I wish you well in your career! Getting down to business, I think that there are three forms of sports-hatred: hating that other team, hating that other team's faceless fans, and hating faces among that other team's fans belonging to fans who were rude to, let's say, Theo Shmeo's kids.

Regarding hating that other team, you've assembled a really excellent set of reasons, and I can only commend, not improve upon.

On SoSH we're generally interact civilly with other teams' fans, because their presence really does enrich this site - I guess we convert faceless fans to fans who have faces. During game threads, sports is our real world, and lots of things are typed that wouldn't be displayed in regular life. Fortunately we have rules as to how rude, unkind, vulgar we can go - other fan sites, as I've read on SoSH recently, do not operate with limits, and I'd honestly be afraid to post on such sites. You've been treated well, I believe, as you've "come in peace."

That leaves only the truly rude, in-person dangerous types, and it is there that sports-hatred crosses over, justifiably so, into real life. What confuses things sometimes is that we occasionally try to pass off sports-hate as real-hate: administer some truth serum to even our site-hardliners, and I don't think that there are a whole lot of folks here that invested their time in really celebrating Yankee-player plane crashes as things that truly "made their day."

Thanks, CP, for opening up this topic. I haven't checked yet, but I wouldn't be surprised if a thread has already opened at P&G to more humorously run with this topic, with a few dilly-dilly's tossed in for good measure.

 

[SydneySox]

His posts are

They sure are.

 

[Conigliaro's Potential]

So you a) are saying you intentionally chose a provocative title b) cherry picked two examples from a game thread (which is the one place the dopes allow for more free wheeling or out of their minds posting) by two posters who are relative unknowns (one of which acknowledged in his post he was being mean), and were hoping to start a broad discussion about fandom and c) ignored the number of fans who did mention that if the Patriots didn't win, they'd like to see Atlanta win. Huh. Then in your followup post you label the fandom as defensive as proven by the responses to your provocation. Weird results there. Be sure to publish a paper on this one.

My cherry-picking those two Gamethread examples *was* lazy. But the number of SoSHers who have made 28-3 jokes about Atlanta - some of which have been very good and funny, others of which have seemed more meanspirited - is legion, and this response...

I've had a few Pats fans (including my father) say something along those lines about fuck Atlanta! I asked them why and no one really had an answer. It was kind of odd.

...seems pretty reflective of what I've seen here from *some* people over the past year. If that shoe fits, well, I'm interested to hear from you; if it doesn't, then thank you for being supportive.

Let me ask you (and anyone else) this: do you think Patriot fans have generally changed over the past 15-20 years? If so, how?

 

[mauf]

If memory serves, @ConigliarosPotential lives overseas. He probably has little interaction with Patriots’ fans outside of SoSH, so I read his statements about Pats’ fans as being mostly about us. Perhaps that is self-centered on my part.

If we’re talking about us, I do think the Pats’ fans here are a bit Yankee fan-ish. I mean, half of you have said at some point or other that you’ll be done with the Pats and the NFL when Brady and Belichick are gone — can you imagine a more Yankee-fan sentiment than that? Also, the incredible run of success the Pats have had have caused many of us to elevate the team’s principals to near-infallibility — which is understandable, but I’m sure it doesn’t make for the most stimulating discussion when you aren’t a fan of the team.

That said, I managed to exist here for several years as a Steelers fan (before the cognitive dissonance of rooting for Rapistberger finally did me in), and I didn’t think it was that bad, so perhaps the OP is a tad sensitive as well.

 

[johnmd20]

Let me ask you (and anyone else) this: do you think Patriot fans have generally changed over the past 15-20 years? If so, how?

They've changed from losers to winners. You're an Atlanta fan, you wouldn't understand.

 

[mauf]

They've changed from losers to winners. You're an Atlanta fan, you wouldn't understand.

In fairness, Atlanta had the Braves. They couldn’t sell out postseason games.

I’ve spent almost no time in Atlanta, so I won’t speculate about the reasons, but it’s clear that folks there aren’t as in to professional sports as those of us in New England are. Not a moral judgment — just an observation.

 

[bankshot1]

My cherry-picking those two Gamethread examples *was* lazy. But the number of SoSHers who have made 28-3 jokes about Atlanta - some of which have been very good and funny, others of which have seemed more meanspirited - is legion, and this response...

...seems pretty reflective of what I've seen here from *some* people over the past year. If that shoe fits, well, I'm interested to hear from you; if it doesn't, then thank you for being supportive.

Let me ask you (and anyone else) this: do you think Patriot fans have generally changed over the past 15-20 years? If so, how?

We've grown in #, and own a lot more T-shirts and hats.

Re 28-3

As an aside, I never twitter, but I did shortly after the SB 51 in response to to Falcon guard Ryan Schraeder's twitter, which said , "Embrace Adversity"

I tweeted, "While embracing adversity is great, perhaps you should learn how to hold a lead"

He liked it.

I've lived in metro NYC for about 35 years and have been subject to all sorts of stuff from MFY fans, so I developed a thicker skin. 2004 also helped.

Right now, given the Giants implosion, and the Jets suckage, the Pats hate in suburban NJ is bubbling over.

Its great.

 

[johnmd20]

In fairness, Atlanta had the Braves. They couldn’t sell out postseason games.

I’ve spent almost no time in Atlanta, so I won’t speculate about the reasons, but it’s clear that folks there aren’t as in to professional sports as those of us in New England are. Not a moral judgment — just an observation.

I was obviously joking but it was warranted. Basically that question was, "When did you officially start becoming Yankee fans? Was it 16 years ago perhaps?"

edit - just to add, I've lived in NYC since 1995, when I was 22. I don't think Yankee fans or Jets fans or Giants fans are any worse than any other fans. It's all tribal and there are some psychos. Yankee fans were never that bad to me in the 90s and I was surrounded by them. It's a matter of how mad you want to be or if you realize it's "Not Isis" and just sportsball.

 

[snowmanny]

A bunch of the anti-Georgia posts were about Trump.

It may have been annoying to some and largely pointless to get political posts in the game threads, but it seems important to note that that’s a separate phenomenon.

I'll speak to a little of this, since I made one of those posts and posted the Blank on the sidelines gifs that CP reference.

I was rooting against Atlanta. Partly because I picked Philly to win. Partly because I'd rather have the Patriots play Philadelphia for various reasons. That's the entirety of why. I don't generally love the Eagles, and Ryan and Jones are more fun to watch than anyone on Philly. If RBGYB hadn't run away I might have been rooting for the Falcons.

There was a comment a poster made to feeling bad for the people of Georgia, because you know their college team also lost a heartbreaker. I give zero fucks about who wins the Southern Invitational College Championship, so I do not feel bad for the people of Georgia on that score and would not have felt bad for the people of Alabama had they lost. Most of the people of Georgia voted for Trump so I pointed out most of them had a recent close win to be happy about. Shouldn't be in a sports thread, I know, but it was an obvious lighthearted joke. When I was 9 I saw a Christmas tree that had a bulb for each state on it and I knocked off the Mississippi, Alabama and Georgia bulbs. (It was at the Nixon White House). I feel bad for doing that. There are great people in most, if not all, of those states.

I have also posted the gif of Blank and his wife at the end of the Super Bowl a couple of times. It amuses me.
I appreciate that CP put it in greater context (Blank always goes down) but that is irrelevant to the reason it's funny.

I think it must be really hard to be a fan of some other NFL team on this board during this ever-lengthening slice of time that the Patriots are so so fucking good. I genuinely appreciate those who hang in there.

Just like I'll appreciate all those Knicks and Sixers fans who hang in there over the next few years.

 

[OurF'ingCity]

A few thoughts from a humble lurker:

But still...there's a 1,741-post (and counting) thread called "The Nation's Tears" which dates back less than 12 months.

The genesis of this thread (the original one, not the "Part II" version) was the Pats Super Bowl win in 2015 after Deflategate. I think this is a key point because, to the extent Patriots fans are perceived as "mean," reveling in other teams' failures, etc., I think a key part of that is the perception (justified in my view, but YMMV) that the league and most if not all of the other owners (not to mention large segments of the media including ESPN) hold the Patriots to a higher standard and have felt the need to justify a false impression that the Patriots "cheat" (an impression itself created, as far as I can tell, by the Patriots' historic run of success and curmudgeonly nature of their head coach) by coming up with all sorts of accusations that at best are minor issues that all teams deal with and at worst are blatantly devoid of fact. So much of Pats fans' "hate" toward other teams is a circle-the-wagons, us-against-the-world mentality. Now, you could argue that Pats fans should just brush it off and "ignore the noise," but I think it's totally justified to be a bit testy when it seems like 90% of the all the commentary among other fans and the media since Spygate has been about how the Patriots are cheats and liars and their success is totally undeserved.

But ultimately, I'm interested in better understanding what makes you tick if you're a fan who enjoys or embraces sporting malice. "It's more fun that way" is a perfectly fair response, but if there's more to it than that, I'm interested hearing why.

For me at least, sports is an outlet for all the tribalism, stereotyping, etc. that has no place in the "real" world. Because we are human animals, we have a natural inclination to seek like groups to band together with against others outside of our groups. Doing that for things that matter, though, has almost entirely negative consequences (one reason our political climate is so toxic now, in my view, is because it has been "sports-ified" so that everyone is just seeking "wins" for their side and "losses" for the other side regardless of the real-world consequences), so sports is basically a place to scratch that itch without doing so in a legitimately harmful way. (As other have said, obviously when fandom turns violent or otherwise bleeds into serious issues like racism, sexism, etc. that is an entirely different matter.)

 

[dcmissle]

CP — you’ve hit on a good point, but I am not sure how much it has to do with Atlanta. I detect no animus toward the Falcons here. For the most part, I think we believe the Falcons have handled the loss from hell very well.

As you noted, these divisional threads are game threads. Game threads offer some of the best observations, but also some of the very worst as well. The worst of the worst entails whining and professional victimhood — usually about officiating. It’s a very mixed bag. Insults are common, but given the forum, I would not take them very seriously.

I rooted for Philly in that thread, because I feared Atlanta more as a SB matchup.