Baylor Scheierman - 30th pick, RD1
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He looked totally lost in the few minutes he got with Boston. It’s not like he is 20 years old. I expected him to at least not shit his shorts the first few times he stepped on a NBA floor.We’ll be lucky if he is as good as Bronny.
BTW, the Celtics 2022 53rd pick JD Davison is a gazillion times better than the Lakers’ 55th pick in this summer’s draft. I’d like to see JDD get a spot on a team where he can get some minutes. I think he is an NBA rotation player.
BTW2, is Kevin Gilbride coaching the Maine Celtics? Play some freaking defense.
Yeah no doubt. You can’t get shots off against NBA defenses consistently with his current release. I think the Celtics are trying to figure out what to do with him evidenced by having him add size over the summer when it is usually the opposite for an already developed body.
Not sure he will ever catch up in hours devoted to improving his game. Bronny has his eye on the prize. Oh, wait we are talking hoops not Call of Duty? Ok I get it LOL.We’ll be lucky if he is as good as Bronny.
I was at the game with my 9 year old, right behind the C’s bench.
Schierman actually came off the bench surprisingly. +/- doesn’t tell the story of this game.
The starters were terrible and before you knew it the C’s were in a 20 point hole. While Davison has some flashes he was disastrous at times. Just poor court vision and decision making - surprised box only shows 2 TO. Kept driving into traffic and trying to do too much. 31 pts but 28 shots to get there. Great dunk though in the 3rd.
Schierman actually really stabilized the team once he got in a rhythm.
Harper looked slow and lumbering even tho he nailed the same 6-13 3pt as Schierman. Cool to see his dad courtside tho!
Back to Schierman - dip or no he was consistent with his shot and was confident. While he aided the comeback rally he‘d also get lost in the action at times or get torched by the quicker guys when on defense. That’s what will keep him from seeing the court. But it’s 1 game and the 3pt shot is there.
Made a gif of a shot he unfortunately misses where you can see his shot mechanics (courtesy of my 9yr old using my phone)
Schierman actually came off the bench surprisingly. +/- doesn’t tell the story of this game.
The starters were terrible and before you knew it the C’s were in a 20 point hole. While Davison has some flashes he was disastrous at times. Just poor court vision and decision making - surprised box only shows 2 TO. Kept driving into traffic and trying to do too much. 31 pts but 28 shots to get there. Great dunk though in the 3rd.
Schierman actually really stabilized the team once he got in a rhythm.
Harper looked slow and lumbering even tho he nailed the same 6-13 3pt as Schierman. Cool to see his dad courtside tho!
Back to Schierman - dip or no he was consistent with his shot and was confident. While he aided the comeback rally he‘d also get lost in the action at times or get torched by the quicker guys when on defense. That’s what will keep him from seeing the court. But it’s 1 game and the 3pt shot is there.
Made a gif of a shot he unfortunately misses where you can see his shot mechanics (courtesy of my 9yr old using my phone)
It looks like Scheierman is a bigger stronger Hauser type from what I have seen so far. Probably a year or two away from fighting for real rotation minutes.
When you say “the 3-point shot is there” we all know he can shoot against college level and very likely non-NBA competition. In the NBA, defenders are longer and quicker so the game is faster especially for shooters. The struggle for Baylor offensively will be finding that comfort zone shooting the ball and even just getting off shots against quicker close outs which his windup only hinders.
It's rare to find a player as accomplished as Sam. He'd start for many NBA teams.
Sam has never been below 40% from 3 for a season ever (college, G-League, NBA).
He now is a high-volume 3&D WING that plays positive NBA defense.
Baylor has already failed on the first & it's highly doubtful he will become the NBA defender Sam is.
I would not call Sam Hauser a 3&D Wing. His defense has evolved to being pretty decent but Scheierman is much stronger defensively now then when Sam started though Sam was a better 3 point shooter.
It's still early, but Sam hasn't been lights out shooting this year, either - currently looking up at 30%, never mind 40%.
As discussed above, Baylor's shooting motion is pretty funky, seams like he is destined for a rework or for being streaky.
Re: D, they both seem more stout than quick. But a stout defender with the length to bother shots and grab rebounds is definitely playable if they are dangerous from outside, too.
As discussed above, Baylor's shooting motion is pretty funky, seams like he is destined for a rework or for being streaky.
Re: D, they both seem more stout than quick. But a stout defender with the length to bother shots and grab rebounds is definitely playable if they are dangerous from outside, too.
I'm more bullish on Sam Hauser than most & expect he'll be here for the next 5yrs for his ridiculously cheap contract. About 6 weeks ago a bunch of posters were clamoring to eventually use Hauser as trade bait for a backup BIG. BUT that's probably died down after 10 games of Queta.
Sam is a WING that primarily shoots 3s (one of the highest %/FGA) & plays positive defense. That's the loose definition of 3&D WING, right?
I haven't seen anything from Baylor at SL or pre-season that resembles Sam's play
Sam is 6'8" to Baylor's 6'6" and weighs more so don't know where the bigger, stronger stuff is coming from. Baylor hit the gym but I'm sure Sam was also pumping iron this summer.
Putting Sam on an Island comically failed Year 1...Playing 4yrs for Tony Bennett & Woj instilled solid defensive fundamentals. People can save any DARKO-D curves for Sam, just watch the games.
Sam has been injured and is shooting 3s poorly after 48 attempts, so not long before the pitchforks come out
Plus the mechanics on Sam's shot is a huge advantage to him at this point. Maybe Baylor re-works his shot or just has to step out further but Sam's quick release and high arc makes his shot pretty much unblockable.
Sam has been dealing with a back injury since training camp that’s caused him to miss multiple games. I’m not too concerned about 29% on 48 attempts when in and out of lineup when we have a sample of over 1600 covering 6 collegiate and NBA seasons of never shooting below 40% for a season.
I would disagree. I would say Sam is better than a three and D defender. Most 3 and D wings sit in the corner and don't get involved offensive sets. The D is far more important than the 3. You need them to at least have a corner 3 for spacing but you don't involve them in the half court offense because of their limitations. Grant Williams is a 3 and D bench player. I think Walsh is probably trying to develop to that.I'm more bullish on Sam Hauser than most & expect he'll be here for the next 5yrs for his ridiculously cheap contract. About 6 weeks ago a bunch of posters were clamoring to eventually use Hauser as trade bait for a backup BIG. BUT that's probably died down after 10 games of Queta.
Sam is a WING that primarily shoots 3s (one of the highest %/FGA) & plays positive defense. That's the loose definition of 3&D WING, right?
I haven't seen anything from Baylor at SL or pre-season that resembles Sam's play
Sam is 6'8" to Baylor's 6'6" and weighs more so don't know where the bigger, stronger stuff is coming from. Baylor hit the gym but I'm sure Sam was also pumping iron this summer.
Putting Sam on an Island comically failed Year 1...Playing 4yrs for Tony Bennett & Woj instilled solid defensive fundamentals. People can save any DARKO-D curves for Sam, just watch the games.
Sam has been injured and is shooting 3s poorly after 48 attempts, so not long before the pitchforks come out
Hauser has developed beyond that and I think Sheierman can as well. Both are good at cutting and engaging within Boston's half court offense which is very dynamic. Hauser was just a sharp shooter when he came out and developed the rest of the skills, while Baylor is not a good a shooter his surrounding skill sets are much better than Hauser's when Hauser came out of college.
That's FAIR... and fingers crossed that Baylor can get rid of the DIP. If Baylor does develop into Hauser then the guy to go would be Jrue Holiday (not Sam)
It's so incredibly hard to do what Sam has done with his 3pt shooting (always greater than 40% for 7 straight seasons). The list is like Steph, Kennard, Klay, Korver.
Throw in the defense + 5yrs of a dirt cheap contract and the mere suggestion of trading that for a $10M backup Center made my head hurt a month ago. Apologies didn't mean to lump you into that
Hauser 3 point shooting by year, going back to college:
2017: .453
2018: .487
2019: .402
2020: (sat out due to transfer rules)
2021: .417
2022: .420
2023: .418
2024: .424
Injuries suck and can't be helped (and back injuries are never great) but there is no on the Celtics I worry about less when it comes to 3 point shooting than Hauser (and it's not at all unusual for him to have a bad couple of weeks here and there, he'll catch fire at some point and it will be glorious). Scheierman has no real shot at ever being THIS consistently elite from 3.
2017: .453
2018: .487
2019: .402
2020: (sat out due to transfer rules)
2021: .417
2022: .420
2023: .418
2024: .424
Injuries suck and can't be helped (and back injuries are never great) but there is no on the Celtics I worry about less when it comes to 3 point shooting than Hauser (and it's not at all unusual for him to have a bad couple of weeks here and there, he'll catch fire at some point and it will be glorious). Scheierman has no real shot at ever being THIS consistently elite from 3.
even in his 10-game spell in the G-League he was 39/90 (43.3%)
When he gets healthy, along with contract certainty, I'm expecting him to surpass last season's 42.4%
You're right it's going to look glorious.
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=236ov8LpYmI
Sam’s greatest defensive asset is that no one respects him. He has defensive gravity. Going one on one against average defenders with no ball movement is bad offense.
No, we are good. We just disagreed on what a 3 and D bench player was. I don't think Hauser has to worry about Scheierman surpassing him. If Hauser was on most other teams he would be starting. Cleveland would murder for Hauser. However there is a world where Jrue steps out in two to three years and Pritchard or Hauser step up. Right now Walsh or Tillman is the next man in the wing conversation. I think there is space Scheierman to fit in that space over them. I think Scheierman came out of college with a bit more of well rounded skill set than Hauser.
Yeah this team has room for another WING since Tillman
Tillman's ineptitude in the Nets game was the story but Walsh's 20yr body got swallowed up. I'm kind of longing for Walker who we know can take an NBA floor without embarrassing himself.
There is a regular-season opening for small minutes if Baylor wants to grab them.
Baylor has enough going for him that he doesn't have to be 40-45% 3 PT Hauser-type guy to be a useful NBA player (he does probably have to be upper 30% though).
I like his under appreciated nose for rebounding and overall BBiQ. He obviously doesn't have the defensive upside of someone like Walsh, but I think should be able to hold his own with time.
Way too early to know but a good stint with Maine would be nice. I'm not sold on any of our younger players ...Walsh, Springer, JDD, etc. and I think there is a chance for Baylor to get to the fringes of the rotation by next year.
I like his under appreciated nose for rebounding and overall BBiQ. He obviously doesn't have the defensive upside of someone like Walsh, but I think should be able to hold his own with time.
Way too early to know but a good stint with Maine would be nice. I'm not sold on any of our younger players ...Walsh, Springer, JDD, etc. and I think there is a chance for Baylor to get to the fringes of the rotation by next year.
I'm not a fan of Baylor so far, but he has a decent body and baseline talent level.
The Celtics' hit rate with projects the past few years has been elite (Hauser, PP, Queta, Kornet), so I probably need to put his odds of getting decent more like 30-40% and not the 5-10% it feels like when I watch him play.
The Celtics' hit rate with projects the past few years has been elite (Hauser, PP, Queta, Kornet), so I probably need to put his odds of getting decent more like 30-40% and not the 5-10% it feels like when I watch him play.
Please do not get rid of the dip. The best shooters in the world dip. The issue is the hitch. What makes Curry so great is he dips and then it's all one motion from there, no hitch and no hesitation.
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f5doR2YlG0w
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f5doR2YlG0w
Joe is sneaky good at working guys into his system, even better than Stevens and much better than Udoka. I don't think it is easy to play on the Celtics because their play style is so anti AAU.
I have a significant lefty bias so the 17.36% chance I currently have him at automatically gets the -8.32% ding so I have Baylor being a success at 9.04%. For me, it all began with Harold Miner then later Brandon Rush.
One of Hauser's talents that Scheierman will never match is being 6'8". Another is that Hauser has been a better shooter at every level and there is no good reason to expect that to ever change.
Scheierman can follow the path of Hauser in making himself a better defensive player over time, but he's never going to add 2 inches in height.
If he pans out, I think Scheierman is going to be a different style of player than Hauser.
Hauser has improved in a lot of ways since he came into the league, but he still makes me nervous anytime he takes more than 2 dribbles. And his offensive game is almost entirely catch and shoot spot up threes. He has been working on other things, like coming around a pick into a catch and shoot three, but that's not a reliable part of his game. He can pass decently, but he's not and will never be an initiator of the offense or a shot creator for himself or others.
Scheierman, if he pans out, will be more of a ball handler/creator/passer and he can be more of a motion player on offense. He won't be the shooter Hauser is but he will have a more rounded offensive game. I don't mean to suggest that the Celtics will ever be running their offense through him but he'll be able to add situational value in a way that Hauser does not and never will. (Just as Hauser will likely always be the better defender and spot up shooter).
BTW, Scheierman's second game for Maine: 24 points (8 of 14 shooting, 6 of 10 from three), 9 rebounds, 5 assists, 1 steal, 3 turnovers. He got the start in this one.
In that Steph video, all the passes were at, or higher than, head level. You HAVE to dip a little when you catch the pass there. That's the passer's fault. I'm talking about regular passes to the shooting pocket.
And Steph has a single action shooting motion, which is by far the smoothest, cleanest, and most accurate. Lots of great shooters had/have double action shooting motions. Reggie Miller is a classic example. It definitely can work, but it is much preferred to shoot in one single continuous action. Tatum, by the way, is a double action shooter. Well, at least he used to be. His motion is much closer to single action now, which is one reason why it is quicker and smoother than it was.
Well one thing is for certain - Scheierman has deep range. A few highlights here, including his best PRabbit impersonation:
Highlights here: View: https://www.instagram.com/p/DCQYeIKJsV_/?utm_source=ig_web_button_share_sheet
Highlights here: View: https://www.instagram.com/p/DCQYeIKJsV_/?utm_source=ig_web_button_share_sheet
Great LH shooters is a much shorter list than great LH hitters.
That is a pretty bleak list for basketball lefties
https://hoopshype.com/lists/nba-rankings-best-left-handed-players-nba-history/
Without looking, I have to guess that Chris Mullin is #1 all time in terms of great left-handed shooters.
Yeah the list is short but Mullin has to take a backseat to Luke Kennard who destroys him percentage wise but there are other factors where I’d place Mullin together close to Luke. Who are the guys in the next tier….Michael Redd, Cuttino Mobley, and Mike Conley? I’m sure I’m forgetting a some, the Lakers had that black 2-guard that played college in the Midwest who wasn’t a really good player. Where do you put Harden? He deserves mention especially when you account for contested deep 3’s made against the shot clock.
Edit: Joe Ingles too. There are probably a couple small guards like Conley who escape me.
Edit2: Derek Fisher.
Anyway, point being…..when you even begin to think “Ya know, I wonder if D’Angelo Russell cracks the Top 10-15 or best lefty shooters of all time” then it opens your eyes. Lol
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Others who haven't been mentioned: Tiny Archibald, Sarunas Marciulionis, Bosh (though he didn't have the range), Stoudamire, IT4, Calbert Cheaney, Gail Goodrich, Adrian Dantley, and Lenny Wilkens.
Dick Barnett from the old NYK teams was said to have a sweet jumper (if unorthodox leg kick).
Here's a list as of 2013-14. Some fun names here, including Brad Lohaus, who would have made a mint if he was born 20 years later: Left-Handed BAA/NBA/ABA Players. Kevin Grevey was supposed to be a great shooter IIRC.
Why does EVERY lefty look like they're launching their shot from a trebuchet?
It's so weird, and it's obviously not a camera angle thing.
Someone with more advanced skills could probably produce a mirror image video of Steph or another great shooter, it would be interesting to see
When did the consensus become that single motion is “much preferred”? This sounds made up.
Ha! He was on this list - List of Left Handed Basketball Players - which also had Bill Walton so I should have double-checked but got caught up in a work thing.
It's naturally a smoother shot, fewer moving parts. Simpler is easier to repeat. Plus, in almost all cases of a player with a single action shooting motion, they tend to release the ball just before the apex of the jump, which is precisely when you want to release the ball. Many players with double action shooting motions release the ball at their apex, or even slightly on the way down, which is suboptimal to say the least.
whatever works. the list of successful two motion shooters is long and illustrious. the idea that there’s a clear better way seems unrealistic to me. i think i recall two motion being the orthodoxy pre curry.
No doubt double action can work. Some of the greatest shooters ever (Bird is an example) were double action. It's just slower and more complex. As a coach, I want to teach the principle that simpler is easier and more repeatable. Fewer moving parts means fewer things that can go wrong. The more complex any motion or machine is, the more things that can go wrong. It's not that it can't be done well - obviously it can be. It's just harder is all.
I fell in love with watching left handed guards after seeing Kenny Anderson followed by Travis Best at Georgia Tech. It's weird because I wasn't a Georgia Tech fan or anything, I think I was just at an impressionable age in the 90s.