Baylor fires Art Briles

WayBackVazquez

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I'm inclined to wonder if he's suffering from dementia or losing his faculties. Say what you will about his beliefs--and I'm certainly no political kindred of his--he was a brilliant lawyer. As recently as 7 or 8 years ago before he left for Baylor, he was presenting persuasive, nuanced oral arguments with total recall of the relevant facts and cases. I didn't know him well, but what I saw in that video didn't strike me as Ken playing dumb; it seemed like a genuinely confused old man.
 

Bosoxen

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According to some posters at Baylor Fans, more bad things are about to happen in Waco.

Baylor had a basketball coach cover up a murder of one of his players. I wouldn't put anything past the baptists when it comes to covering up really, really bad stuff in their athletics programs.
The only way for them to perpetuate the lie that stuff like that doesn't happen at Baylor is to suppress all information of those events occurring. It's the equivalent of plugging your ears and singing out loud so you don't hear anything.

I'd be remiss if I didn't reiterate that Dave Bliss is a fucking asshole and a despicable human being - though he barely qualifies as one.
 

canderson

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Can't link currently but Baylor regents are meeting today and they may actually only suspend Briles one year, and not fire him. Big time donors are threatening the school apparently if they fire him they walk.

God would approve.
 

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You know the part in post #6 where I praised Baylor for taking clear and unambiguous action against a coach? Well, that's on me for believing any school would ever place the actual values they are supposed to stand for ahead of football.

If the board softens the punishment to a 1 year suspension, they will do more damage to Baylor than they can possibly imagine. The best part is that it will be for nothing, because after all that's come out, there is no way that Art Briles returns as coach. (Like Bruce Willis in The Sixth Sense, he's dead. He just doesn't know it.)

Edit: Typos
 
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soxfan121

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If the board softens the punishment to a 1 year suspension, they will do more damage to Baylor than they can possibly imagine. The best part is that it will be for nothing, because after all that' scone out, there is no way that Art Briles returns as coach. (Like Bruce Willis in The Sixth Sense, he's dead. He just doesn't know it.)
Hmmm, I do not agree. First, I think they will make it a one-year suspension. Because the football program at a school like Baylor is not run by the University, it is run by the boosters and alumni.

Second, I don't think Baylor will be damaged at all; the football program is too important to the Big 12, and its future plans. Football, in Texas, is more important than...anything?

I think it is deplorable, and awful, but there's already a fall guy (Starr) and the board will continue to say the "right" things and the NCAA will impose a token punishment. And Briles will be back on the sidelines in 2017.
 

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I agree with your premise on how Baylor runs, but I think this has already spun beyond the ability of the boosters/alums to control it.

If the punishment for Briles is lowered to a 1 year suspension, here's how it plays out. Some enterprising writer is going to start digging into Baylor and draw the connection between Dave Bliss and Art Briles. Then they'll ask (again and again) how an institution that claims to be the epitome of a "Christian University" could allow/enable the kind of criminal behavior we have seen in their athletics department.

This will spur the Feds to expedite a beefed-up Title IX investigation focused on Briles. And the heat related to a series of deplorable facts that are not in dispute will become so intense that the NCAA will take action to prevent Briles from coming back to Baylor. (There are any number of ways to do this. The cleanest way would be to issue a show cause letter.)

My guess is that Briles does not get his suspension shortened because the University President is already buckling a bit. But if it happens, I can't see him ever making it back as coach.
 

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I know some people have been gleefully calling for Baylor to get the death penalty. While I don't necessarily agree with that sentiment - though this is as close to a lack of institutional control as one can get without going full SMU - bringing back Briles might push me to that side of the fence. That guy needs to burn in a raging inferno for what he's done, but he's been sainted by the sycophants of that bloody school.

I have too many friends that went to Baylor and a few of them are being so mind-numbingly stupid about this whole thing that I'm starting to question my associations with these people. One even went so far as to post an "article" (really a blog) yesterday in which the lead-in was basically, "I'm not saying these women were asking for it, but maybe women shouldn't dress provocatively and get drunk at parties". He later states that he didn't read the entirety of the Pepper report but almost in the same breath proclaims himself an expert on the matter.

This is how these fucking idiots think. So it should be no surprise that they're lining up to bring back St Briles and his band of merry enablers.
 

RedOctober3829

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I know some people have been gleefully calling for Baylor to get the death penalty. While I don't necessarily agree with that sentiment - though this is as close to a lack of institutional control as one can get without going full SMU - bringing back Briles might push me to that side of the fence. That guy needs to burn in a raging inferno for what he's done, but he's been sainted by the sycophants of that bloody school.

I have too many friends that went to Baylor and a few of them are being so mind-numbingly stupid about this whole thing that I'm starting to question my associations with these people. One even went so far as to post an "article" (really a blog) yesterday in which the lead-in was basically, "I'm not saying these women were asking for it, but maybe women shouldn't dress provocatively and get drunk at parties". He later states that he didn't read the entirety of the Pepper report but almost in the same breath proclaims himself an expert on the matter.

This is how these fucking idiots think. So it should be no surprise that they're lining up to bring back St Briles and his band of merry enablers.
Wouldn't a reasonable person find that this is a similar situation to Penn State? Too many people knew or should have known and didn't do a damn thing about it. They cleaned house and deservedly so. How is not only Briles fired but the entire coaching staff not fired?
 

joe dokes

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I agree with your premise on how Baylor runs, but I think this has already spun beyond the ability of the boosters/alums to control it.
Given where the lion's share of money comes from, I truly wonder whether there is *ever* a point beyond which "boosters/alums [can] control it." Ultimately, (and admittedly from afar) these wealthy jock-sniffers don't seem to have any compunction about saying (explicitly or implicitly) "if Briles is gone, so is my money." They dont seem to care about "what really happened." Instead, they are more concerned with he fact that they are responsible for much of Briles's salary, and as such, they can hob-nob with the coach and wear the sycophancy they purchased like a badge of honor among their peers.
A new coach, whose salary they may not be paying, might not think it so keen to have them around.

(I'm not suggesting this is limited to Baylor and/or football.)
 

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At places like Baylor you have a relatively small number of boosters that throw their weight around. Their influence is strong and their relationships with regents and administrators close. The threat of shutting off the money is real - Floyd Casey isn't paid for quite yet. And they still have a few decades to go before they catch up with the rest of us in football, which is their main goal in life. So I have no problem believing that the baptists are seriously considering rehabilitating Briles. They have a history of this shit. You only need two or three BMDs to make the threat real.
 

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This is a real post on a real Baylor message board:

Has anybody thought that we might gain some traction by reaching out to share our story on other schools' message forums?

Right now, as a fan base, we're very much alone and very much victims. In my opinion, other schools have reacted negatively to our plight ONLY because they don't really know the facts as well as we know them.

By reaching out to other forums to defend CAB, to correct the misperceptions about our football players and alleged crimes, and explaining why it's important for us to reverse the BOR's rush to judgment to bring CAB back to the sidelines, we can slowly gain popular support.

Once we get popular opinion on our side, the BOR will be forced to hear our message.

I'm terrible at organizing these types of things, but I would be willing to share our story with other schools' fan bases...except Texas because none of this would have even happened if it weren't for them and the stupid LHN.
 

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Wouldn't a reasonable person find that this is a similar situation to Penn State? Too many people knew or should have known and didn't do a damn thing about it. They cleaned house and deservedly so. How is not only Briles fired but the entire coaching staff not fired?
A reasonable person does find this situation similar to Penn State. In some ways, I find this worse than Penn State, in that this involved a more institution-wide violation of Title IX requirements. The fact that Ukwuachu can be convicted of sexual assault in a court of law, yet the university's investigation turned up no evidence of impropriety, suggests to me that there was a much larger see-no-evil contingent in the university than just the football team.

Yet, despite those verifiable facts, Baylor fans still claim this is all just an unfounded witch hunt.

This is a real post on a real Baylor message board:
Perfect example of a deluded fanboy. Right down to the accusation that this is all Texas' fault. Never mind that the genesis of their dumbfuckery predates the LHN by a decade.
 

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Waco, Texas. Not exactly the Athens of our time. At least I get a new team to root against.
 

Kremlin Watcher

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Why does more plaintiffs joining the suit equal Briles having "no chance"?
To be retained as HFC. As more assaults come to light and the worse things get for Baylor, the less likely Briles will get away with a suspension and be re-hired as coach for 2017. At least that's what I think, as each new Title IX violation should make the NCAA's involvement more and more likely.
 

soxfan121

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Oh, the NCAA doing the right thing? I'll believe it when my shit turns purple and tastes like rainbow sherbet.

I mean, I'd like to believe things are going to get worse for Baylor and that the victims will get some sembelance of closure and/or justice... but every time i get to thinking like that, I remember - IT IS FOOTBALL. IN TEXAS.
 

Bosoxen

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Oh, the NCAA doing the right thing? I'll believe it when my shit turns purple and tastes like rainbow sherbet.

I mean, I'd like to believe things are going to get worse for Baylor and that the victims will get some sembelance of closure and/or justice... but every time i get to thinking like that, I remember - IT IS FOOTBALL. IN TEXAS.
Ah, but there's the rub. Despite Baylor's insistence to throw its head in the sand regarding this situation, there are interested third parties that might want to do something about this, independent of "football in Texas". With this involving Title IX violations, I fully expect the government to get involved in some form or another. And then there's the NCAA who may or may not get involved. As you correctly noted, they're not exactly known for doing the right thing. But they did at least whack Penn State over the head, so there's hope yet.

I'd like to think that this would get the pollyana Baylor fans to take notice, but if a conviction in the Ukwuachu case didn't do it, I'm not terribly confident this will either. But I'm with KW, that program is dead as a door nail if they bring Briles back now. Lack of institutional control, indeed.
 

canderson

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Oh, the NCAA doing the right thing? I'll believe it when my shit turns purple and tastes like rainbow sherbet.

I mean, I'd like to believe things are going to get worse for Baylor and that the victims will get some sembelance of closure and/or justice... but every time i get to thinking like that, I remember - IT IS FOOTBALL. IN TEXAS.
It's football in Texas but Baylor football has been relevant for only 4 seasons (maybe you can argue 5), all of which are from 2011.

Baylor's boosters have this short-lived run and taste of success but everyone not close knows the real Baylor.

That link above this post is hilarious. I hope Briles sues for wrongful termination and the full Pepper-Hamilton gets dropped.
 

Bosoxen

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Briles said he met with Pepper Hamilton lawyers in February and with Baylor attorneys on April 7. Briles said he believed the Baylor lawyers were working on his behalf, but are now using information he shared to support his firing.
What did you think would happen when you told the attorneys that you knew Sam Ukwuachu was a rapey creep when you signed him up to play for you, Art?

The tone deafness of a guy crying for due process when he probably actively denied due process to the victims of his players is just incredible. Naturally, the sycophants are all-in defending him.
 

soxfan121

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What did you think would happen when you told the attorneys that you knew Sam Ukwuachu was a rapey creep when you signed him up to play for you, Art?

The tone deafness of a guy crying for due process when he probably actively denied due process
to the victims of his players is just incredible. Naturally, the sycophants are all-in defending him.
I am no Baylor fan, nor am I much of a fan of college football (as it currently exists), and I'm absolutely not a fan of "football player rapists". Also, my love for you (personally) should not be in doubt.

But...what the fuck, dude? Two wrongs do not make a right. Your fandom is clouding your ... morals? I don't even know.

If Briles was told counsel was there for his benefit, and it turns out that the counsel was there for Baylor's benefit... that's against the rules. And even if Briles was fully aware of everything every player did and actively worked to cover up rapes - he should still have legal protections under the American system of law. Briles, and all his rapey players, need to be given "due process".

What is the point of having rules unless they are followed? Tossing the rules aside because the alleged scumbag didn't obey the rules is... not how we should do things.

That all said, Briles' whining is ... delicious? I'm totally ok with reveling in Briles' discomfort. Fuck that guy. Give him a lawyer, as is his right, but fuck him in the ear - right?
 

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I don't believe I ever said anything about it being wrong. I said it was tone deaf. Surely someone as smart as you can see the difference.

As for the lawyers turning on him, do we know for sure they were there for his benefit? They are Baylor's lawyers, after all. What he believed they were doing and what they were actually doing could be two completely different things. Unless they told him explicitly that the information he provided wouldn't be used against him, I don't know what exactly his beef would be.

As always, never underestimate the power of CYA.
 

soxfan121

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I would like nothing more than for M. Hernandez and the seemingly inexhaustible line of "Jane Doe's" suing Baylor to win, big. I am rooting for them to win, not because I hate Baylor, or because I root for another team - but because "football player rapist" is tragic, and awful, and needs to stop. Everywhere - from Penn State to deep in the heart of Texas.

As for Baylor's lawyers not representing the Baylor coach in an inquiry into the Baylor football program - I am extremely dubious. If Baylor's lawyers are now using things Briles told them to shift blame from the institution to the coach... well, no matter how much personal distaste I have for Briles, that's dirty pool. There's no chance that Baylor's lawyers were not representing Baylor's employee, Briles, in any meeting with the Hamilton investigators. For those lawyers to turn around and use what Briles told them as part of shifting the blame to the coach and away from the institution is.... very problematic.

Even if Briles was next to his rapey players, coaching them on how to rape better - he deserves due process and for his lawyers to obey the rules of the legal process. Guilty people need lawyers more than innocent ones, etc. So... I am bothered by the intimation that Briles complaining about Baylor's lawyers doing something unethical is "crying". If Baylor did what Briles alleges, the whole insitution should be shut down, not just the football program. Those lawyers should be disbarred.

Briles' complaints are not tone deaf and his right to due process has nothing to do with what he (probably) did to need a lawyer in the first place. The one way Briles (and Baylor) gets away with what they did is to fuck up the procedural stuff and to ignore the basic tenets of our society. I, too, want Briles to pay a price for what I suspect he has done, and has allowed to happen on his watch. The best way for that happen is for there not to be legal shenanigans.

The one thing we can all agree on is that Baylor sucks.
 

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The one thing we can all agree on is that Baylor sucks.
Isn't this the root of the problem anyway?

Let's not forget that Briles isn't the only one who his job in this. Besides, isn't this all based on assumptions anyway? Frankly, we don't know shit yet. I was merely commenting on the perception of hypocrisy on the part of Briles. I don't want to deny anyone their rights and don't believe I have never intimated any such thing. If that's how my comment read, please understand that's not my intention.

Ultimately, I think you may be misunderstanding where I'm coming from. This has nothing to do with football but rather the culture that's been created in Waco and Baylor in particular. I'm railing against the hypocrisy of a Christian institution enabling a culture of criminal behavior and then waving away accusations because "good Christians don't behave that way". It provides cover for creeps like Dave Bliss and, potentially, Art Briles to perpetuate the cycle and leave scores of victims in their wake. Fuck Waco. Fuck Baylor. And fuck anyone involved in destroying the lives of these young ladies.
 

RedOctober3829

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See ya later, Art.

WACO, Texas (KWTX) Baylor University and suspended head football coach Art Briles have agreed to a settlement and Briles won’t return to the university, a source close to the situation confirmed late Friday morning. No further details were available, but Briles had just less than $40 million remaining on a contact that ran through 2023.

Baylor regents talked as recently as Monday night about whether to bring Briles back for the 2017 season, sources close to the situation confirmed.

"The Baylor Board of Regents did meet...to discuss a variety of matters. We can confirm, there was no vote regarding the employment status of Art Briles," university spokeswoman Tonya Lewis said in a statement Tuesday.
http://www.kwtx.com/content/news/Briles-cries-foul-383290841.html?llsms=1323581&c=y
 

joe dokes

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"reached a settlement."

No doubt one that prohibits him from discussing anything, ever, to anyone, unless he gets a subpoena.

"you have to pay $20million to guy who got fired for a good reason" would be a firing offense anywhere except college sports.
 

Bosoxen

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So it wasn't even about due process? It was all about the money? You stay classy, Art Briles.
 

soxfan121

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Ultimately, I think you may be misunderstanding where I'm coming from.
Indeed. My apologies.

I've re-read all your posts in here - you've done a fine job of explaining yourself clearly. The failure to understand is on me, entirely.

RE: the settlement - you can hire some really good lawyers with $20M.
 

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So in a matter of three days since I've checked in, the "Let's bring Art Briles back" movement has imploded, Briles decided to attack the University in the media, the regents authorized paying hush money to a man who almost certainly should have been fired for cause, but could probably bring the entire University down based on what he knows.

At this point, it's useful to remember that a not-insignificant number of women had their lives turned upside down by the callousness of this University and it's Athletics Department. Because it would be a shame if Baylor is allowed to just bury things under a mountain of money and not have the true extent of their sickness exposed to the world.
 

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I would like nothing more than for M. Hernandez and the seemingly inexhaustible line of "Jane Doe's" suing Baylor to win, big. I am rooting for them to win, not because I hate Baylor, or because I root for another team - but because "football player rapist" is tragic, and awful, and needs to stop. Everywhere - from Penn State to deep in the heart of Texas.

As for Baylor's lawyers not representing the Baylor coach in an inquiry into the Baylor football program - I am extremely dubious. If Baylor's lawyers are now using things Briles told them to shift blame from the institution to the coach... well, no matter how much personal distaste I have for Briles, that's dirty pool. There's no chance that Baylor's lawyers were not representing Baylor's employee, Briles, in any meeting with the Hamilton investigators. For those lawyers to turn around and use what Briles told them as part of shifting the blame to the coach and away from the institution is.... very problematic.

Even if Briles was next to his rapey players, coaching them on how to rape better - he deserves due process and for his lawyers to obey the rules of the legal process. Guilty people need lawyers more than innocent ones, etc. So... I am bothered by the intimation that Briles complaining about Baylor's lawyers doing something unethical is "crying". If Baylor did what Briles alleges, the whole insitution should be shut down, not just the football program. Those lawyers should be disbarred.

Briles' complaints are not tone deaf and his right to due process has nothing to do with what he (probably) did to need a lawyer in the first place. The one way Briles (and Baylor) gets away with what they did is to fuck up the procedural stuff and to ignore the basic tenets of our society. I, too, want Briles to pay a price for what I suspect he has done, and has allowed to happen on his watch. The best way for that happen is for there not to be legal shenanigans.

The one thing we can all agree on is that Baylor sucks.
From the standpoint of common sense, you have a point here. From the standpoint of the law, I'm not sure you do.

I have no idea what Briles was told about the role of the various lawyers involved with the investigation, but as a practical matter, a lawyer provided by the University to defend the actions of a University employee are not representing the employee. They may lead the employee to believe that, but it's not true.

It's less clear whether/how they can use any information gained over the course of their interactions with the employee - that will depend on the specifics of the representation agreement - but I have no doubt that anything Briles told Pepper Hamilton is fair game, even if Briles didn't understand this.

This doesn't mean that there aren't conflicts-of-interest as far as the eye can see. But I would not assume that the rules and procedures were not followed simply because At Briles is saying so. Rather, I assume that he was signaling to Baylor that they will make him the fall guy at their peril. And it's clearly worked.
 

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Even if Briles was next to his rapey players, coaching them on how to rape better - he deserves due process and for his lawyers to obey the rules of the legal process. Guilty people need lawyers more than innocent ones, etc. So... I am bothered by the intimation that Briles complaining about Baylor's lawyers doing something unethical is "crying". If Baylor did what Briles alleges, the whole insitution should be shut down, not just the football program. Those lawyers should be disbarred.
If your employer was under investigation, and you were asked to meet with its attorneys, would you assume that those attorneys were there to represent your personal interests? Of course not.

I think the response (here and elsewhere) to Briles's allegations was a product of how implausible those allegations were, not that they wouldn't be serious if they were true. And I'm sure Baylor wouldn't have missed an opportunity to throw those lawyers under the bus if they had the opportunity to pin even a tiny part of their present problems on someone outside the university.
 

canderson

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This guy.

LAW FIRM: Art Briles a 'no show' after promising to apologize to rape victim

According to The Zalkin Law Firm, the attorneys representing Jasmin Henandez who was raped by former Baylor football player and East Texas native, Tevin Elliott, former Baylor head football coach Art Briles did not show up for mediation between Hernandez and Baylor after his lawyer promised he would be there to personally apologize to the victim.
http://www.myeasttex.com/news/local-news/law-firm-art-briles-a-no-show-after-promising-to-apologize-to-rape-victim
 

Bosoxen

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Cut the guy some slack. He was too busy counting the money from his settlement to attend to such petty matters.
 

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Despite Baylor's best efforts, some of the details about how Baylor has tried to suppress reports of sexual abuse are trickling out.

My favorite explanation of why this all happened comes from Dr. Neal Jeffrey, a member of the Board of Regents and former Baylor QB (back in the 70s) who explained that the recent success of the Baylor football created institutional reluctance to deal with the problems of sexual abuse because "it's hard to mess up awesome." (That's an incredibly awkward phrase and my best guess is that he's saying that it's hard for people to take actions that might ruin a great thing. What a prince.)

There are some people in this mess who appear to understand the concept of ethics. One of them is Patty Crawford, the woman brought on late in 2014 to be the Title IX coordinator at Baylor. She recently resigned in frustration at not being allowed to do her job and turned down a settlement offer of $1.5 million in order to be able to tell what she knew to the media.

http://deadspin.com/new-report-details-how-baylor-suppressed-reports-of-sex-1788471921
 

Bosoxen

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But it's all just a big media conspiracy!

I've said it before but I'll say it again: fuck Baylor, fuck Waco, fuck their police departments and fuck anyone who has tried to wave or excuse this away.