Barnes to the IL w/ right shoulder inflammation .

soxhop411

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Julian McWilliams
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Barnes to the IL with right shoulder inflammation .
Chris Cotillo
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Matt Barnes to the 15-day IL with shoulder inflammation. Matt Strahm is active.
View: https://twitter.com/ChrisCotillo/status/1532111359894343685


View: https://twitter.com/RedSox/status/1532111322502115329


The #RedSox today announced the following roster moves: Reinstated LHP Matt Strahm from the COVID-19 Related Injured List. Placed RHP Matt Barnes on the 15-day Injure
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Hopefully this allows him to get work done and fix what ever is wrong with him outside of a game situation
 
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Ganthem

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This is great news. I mean not for him but he has 18 million to help dry his tears.
 
The_Powa_of_Seiji_Ozawa

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Before cutting bait, maybe send him to the minors and try converting him back to being a starter. Seemed to work well for another former Red Sox closer who also did that mid-career. Perhaps his diminished, post-tacky stuff will play better that way.
 
simplicio

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Dude's stuff can barely get him through one inning. I'm not sure how infinite walks and a halved K rate translates to starting. He's simply been broken since last August; we can hope that's medical and fixable, but until something changes I want him as far away from the Boston roster as possible.
 
chawson

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Since the start of the 2019 season through last June, Matt Barnes threw his curveball for 48.2% of his pitches, the 3rd highest rate in MLB. That curveball was also one of the top 5 hardest-thrown curveballs in the game, though he threw it roughly 2x or 3x as often as the others who threw theirs that hard, and it had a well above average vertical drop. This seems like the cost of that.
 
NDame616

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DeadlySplitter said:
I think his season is probably over. Try again in 2023 or he'll be cut.
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And how exactly do you expect them to hide him on the 15 day IL for the entire season ?

He will be down as long as he can, maybe sprain an ankle as his rehab clock is closing to reset it, but there's no way they hide him for the year. He will probably be DFA'ed this season
 
Red(s)HawksFan

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NDame616 said:
And how exactly do you expect them to hide him on the 15 day IL for the entire season ?

He will be down as long as he can, maybe sprain an ankle as his rehab clock is closing to reset it, but there's no way they hide him for the year. He will probably be DFA'ed this season
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There's no time limit on how long a player can be in the IL. The only limit is how long he can rehab before he must be activated (or shut down again). If he's not on a rehab assignment, he can sit on the IL until the end of the season. If that were the case, presumably he'd be put on the 60-day IL to free up the roster spot. I expect they will keep trying with him though, but if he's not showing signs of finding "it" again in Worcester or Portland, he'll get shut down rather than activated.
 
E5 Yaz

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Red(s)HawksFan said:
There's no time limit on how long a player can be in the IL. The only limit is how long he can rehab before he must be activated (or shut down again). If he's not on a rehab assignment, he can sit on the IL until the end of the season.
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Craig Grebeck is still rehabbing in extended Spring Training
 
Rovin Romine

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https://baseballsavant.mlb.com/savant-player/matt-barnes-598264?stats=statcast-r-pitching-mlb

Barnes is basically a two pitch pitcher, fastball and curve. Though he mixes in a third pitch from year to year.

His curveball (SSS) seems not hugely different from previous years, and the results off it are not hugely out of line.

The difference is the fastball. Again, SSS, but it's slightly slower than before and getting absolutely crushed. He's already tried to compensate by throwing it less this year. Obviously, that's not working.

Savant does not break down half-seasons, but it would be interesting to see if the problem in the second half of 2021 was the same, or something else.
 
luckysox

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Mueller's Twin Grannies

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Rovin Romine said:
Savant does not break down half-seasons, but it would be interesting to see if the problem in the second half of 2021 was the same, or something else.
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Maybe I'm recalling wrong, but didn't he start to show signs of being mortal right around the time MLB really cracked down on sticky stuff with pitchers, then completely fell apart after the ASB and that contract extension?

I'm curious how many teams hand out multi-year extensions to pitchers who are already on the decline despite having an existing contract and free agency months away. Because this franchise has, arguably, done it twice now in it last four years.
 
simplicio

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It was weird, his strikeout rate went down in July (sticky stuff was banned in June) and his FIP went up, though by ERA it was his best month. Then in August he started walking absolutely everyone and that's been the Barnes we've dreaded ever since.
 
YTF

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Mueller's Twin Grannies said:
Maybe I'm recalling wrong, but didn't he start to show signs of being mortal right around the time MLB really cracked down on sticky stuff with pitchers, then completely fell apart after the ASB and that contract extension?

I'm curious how many teams hand out multi-year extensions to pitchers who are already on the decline despite having an existing contract and free agency months away. Because this franchise has, arguably, done it twice now in it last four years.
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Who's the other?
 
Red(s)HawksFan

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YTF said:
Who's the other?
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I assume Sale.

My guess is that the Barnes extension was in the works for weeks, if not months. And it would be tough to swallow, particularly for Barnes, if after that whole process the team suddenly got cold feet about pulling the trigger over 2-3 weeks of "decline" (Barnes was having the best season of his career through June...easy enough to think it's just a brief slump not permanent decline). They hesitate or yank the extension over that, and maybe Barnes says "fuck you" and walks. Obviously in hindsight, that may just have been the preferable outcome. But they didn't have the benefit of hindsight at the time. Most of this site have excoriated the team for similar moves in the past that supposedly soured the player on the team (the "low ball" offers to Lester, for example). Kinda hypocritical to wish the team had done that here, I think.
 
YTF

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Red(s)HawksFan said:
I assume Sale.

My guess is that the Barnes extension was in the works for weeks, if not months. And it would be tough to swallow, particularly for Barnes, if after that whole process the team suddenly got cold feet about pulling the trigger over 2-3 weeks of "decline" (Barnes was having the best season of his career through June...easy enough to think it's just a brief slump not permanent decline). They hesitate or yank the extension over that, and maybe Barnes says "fuck you" and walks. Obviously in hindsight, that may just have been the preferable outcome. But they didn't have the benefit of hindsight at the time. Most of this site have excoriated the team for similar moves in the past that supposedly soured the player on the team (the "low ball" offers to Lester, for example). Kinda hypocritical to wish the team had done that here, I think.
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That was my assumption as well. No debating how shitty his contract has worked out, but one might debate what sort of decline Sale exhibited in the 2018 season.
 
simplicio

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Red(s)HawksFan said:
I assume Sale.

My guess is that the Barnes extension was in the works for weeks, if not months. And it would be tough to swallow, particularly for Barnes, if after that whole process the team suddenly got cold feet about pulling the trigger over 2-3 weeks of "decline" (Barnes was having the best season of his career through June...easy enough to think it's just a brief slump not permanent decline). They hesitate or yank the extension over that, and maybe Barnes says "fuck you" and walks. Obviously in hindsight, that may just have been the preferable outcome. But they didn't have the benefit of hindsight at the time. Most of this site have excoriated the team for similar moves in the past that supposedly soured the player on the team (the "low ball" offers to Lester, for example). Kinda hypocritical to wish the team had done that here, I think.
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Also, show me where that "decline" is in these game logs. Sticky stuff ban was June 21st, his contract was July 13th, and he didn't fall off a cliff until August.
 

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Red(s)HawksFan

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simplicio said:
Also, show me where that "decline" is in these game logs. Sticky stuff ban was June 21st, his contract was July 13th, and he didn't fall off a cliff until August.
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Yes.

While Barnes has been a bit of a roller coaster his whole career, I think he's fallen victim to the same thing that has happened to many relievers before him and very likely will become more common place in the future. He threw his arm out. Especially now as the K has become the most primary weapon out of the bullpen (and what teams pay for), guys are throwing harder and harder and I have no doubt it's going to shorten the shelf-life of a lot of relievers. Trying to throw 97+ fastballs and sliders and snapping off monster curveballs takes its toll on any arm.

It's a corallary to cases like Dick Radatz who ruined himself by throwing too often and too much rather than simply too hard all the time (though I'm sure the Monster threw hard). The Sox gambled that he could keep doing what he was doing for two more seasons and it appears he couldn't even finish last year at that level.
 
Sandy Leon Trotsky

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I’m sure we can find the old thread but I don’t think there was one poster that thought signing Barnes to that deal was a poor decision
 
lexrageorge

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There's always a risk with extending pitchers, and relief pitchers especially. But there are also risks in not doing so. And the Barnes situation was very different from Sale's. Sale ended 2017 poorly, and then missed most of the 2nd half of 2018 with shoulder issues that were clearly lingering into 2019 when his extension was signed.
 
nvalvo

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Sandy Leon Trotsky said:
I’m sure we can find the old thread but I don’t think there was one poster that thought signing Barnes to that deal was a poor decision
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Without looking, I can remember what I thought: that we had gotten the AL's then-current best relief pitcher to agree to a deal right around Blake Treinen's — i.e., the deal the Dodgers gave a good setup man.

Still, even in light of his poor results this season, I'm not sure we've seen the last of him. His RPMs are down a tic, but they haven't collapsed. Relievers are just so volatile.

Barnes has thrown 17 IP this season, and they've been unambiguously awful. (You could add that to ~20 terrible IP from the end of last season, if you'd like.) But compare that to a starter: Pivetta had 20 IP worth of terrible pitching at the beginning of the season, before getting his mechanics together and throwing 41 excellent innings in his next six starts.
 
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Ganthem

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The deal was good. His salary, even if the Sox get nothing from Barnes, is not going to sink the Sox or impact any future moves. Sometimes you swing and you get a Pivetta or Whitlock and other times you get a Barnes or Diekman.
 
Coachster

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nvalvo said:
Without looking, I can remember what I thought: that we had gotten the AL's then-current best relief pitcher to agree to a deal right around Blake Treinen's — i.e., the deal the Dodgers gave a good setup man.

Still, even in light of his poor results this season, I'm not sure we've seen the last of him. His RPMs are down a tic, but they haven't collapsed. Relievers are just so volatile.

Barnes has thrown 17 IP this season, and they've been unambiguously awful. (You could add that to ~20 terrible IP from the end of last season, if you'd like.) But compare that to a starter: Pivetta had 20 IP worth of terrible pitching at the beginning of the season, before getting his mechanics together and throwing 41 excellent innings in his next six starts.
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Is it mechanics, or is it in his head? It wasn't mechanics that cost Daniel Bard 8 years. Bard did have Thoracic Outlet Syndrome, which led to the wildness, which led to 8 years of wandering in the wilderness.)

Is it possible that Barnes will show up years from now and that curve will be dropping the way it did when he was successful, and the heat will be back to 97ish? Sure, but that won't be on the Sox's dime.
 
Sandy Leon Trotsky

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