Barnes suspended 4 games for throwing at Machado

[PaulinMyrBch]

Not saying I agree, just passing it along. I didn't know him at the time, became friends with him 10 years later. So the story may have grown over the years, but he was pretty stubborn about it. But he tells me he told Roberts the night before "you know I have to hit you tomorrow, right?" Like he expected that Roberts was aware that tomorrow was payback time. Roberts obviously didn't see it that way. But at least he threw at his feet, and it wasn't a major injury, but dinged him enough to take him out of that game.

 

[drbretto]

I doubt he was aiming for his head, but I'm still OK with the suspension. Bottom line is, he threw behind the head, and based on the observations out there about the speed and awkwardness of the whole thing, he was wild because he through with the intent to hit or scare him. If you can't throw at the butt, then let someone else do it. If you're gonna get all nervous and the ball ends up near the head, then you shouldn't be throwing at people.

It's just 4 games. Find the best time to drop the appeal, serve the time and move on.

 

[Van Everyman]

The gnashing of teeth might be a bit much to you, but there's a reason for it: throwing behind a batter's head has always been considered to be one of the worst things a pitcher can do, because it preys on the batter's instinct to back away. (Which can have the effect of placing his head in the path of the ball.)

Now, what Barnes did was so far behind his head that this really doesn't apply. But Barnes is getting cut no slack because everyone says "the ball got away from me" and in the vast majority of cases it's complete BS.

Throw at a batter's head and you're going to face a backlash. Throw behind a batter's head and you're going to face a figurative lynch mob. (Olney is a good example of this.)

And yet, it is far less clear that Barnes was intentionally trying to hurt Machado and failed than Machado was intentionally trying to hurt Pedroia and succeeded. Particularly once you throw in Machado's history and the fact that EdRo had earlier tried to hit Machado in the legs and missed.

This whole thing is about an injury that didn't happen over the violation of a rule that doesn't exist. But by all means, let's all get really upset about it.

 

[DanoooME]

I don't like that it wasn't Wright on Saturday doing it, and I don't like that Pedey publicly called out his team both on camera and to the media instead of handling that privately.

Who says he didn't? He might have done that first. Nobody knows unless they were in the locker room.

 

[reggiecleveland]

The stupid side of these unwritten rules, vigilante stuff is how disproportionate the punishment can be. A guy does a batflip and could end up with an injury that puts them on the DL or even ends a career. On the other end Matte Cooke got off easy. He ends Mark Savard's career on an intentional dirty play, and he drops the gloves once and is seen to have paid for it according to the unwritten rules. I mean hockey talking heads even praised him for being a "stand up guy" because he fought Thornton.

I played college basketball in the 80s and some of the unwritten rule stuff was really stupid. The hard fould rules didn't even exist then and it was pretty easy to find an excuse to blast a guy that was in the air going to the rim, because of some perceived slight. The brilliant relief pitcher philosopher from the O's has already pointed out that the "rules" are different from team to team.

I am coaching my son's baseball team, and it annoys the crap out me that there is one coach in the league (U15) that will have his guys beaning batters, running into guys on the basepaths, etc over his concept of the "rules". This can include being too happy with a hit, coming out of the dugout for a hr, or anything else that bothers him when his team is losing.

 

[Average Reds]

And yet, it is far less clear that Barnes was intentionally trying to hurt Machado and failed than Machado was intentionally trying to hurt Pedroia and succeeded. Particularly once you throw in Machado's history and the fact that EdRo had earlier tried to hit Machado in the legs and missed.

This whole thing is about an injury that didn't happen over the violation of a rule that doesn't exist. But by all means, let's all get really upset about it.

You seem to have forgotten that there is no question that Barnes was trying to hit Machado. Whether the ultimate location of the pitch was intentional or not is irrelevant, because we know he was throwing at him and the pitch ended up behind his head.

I'm not going to get into the game of deciding whether he meant to injure Machado or not. But given the multiple shots the Sox took and the fact that the last one was behind his head, anyone surprised at the reaction from MLB, baseball writers and the general spots community is naive.

 

[Snodgrass'Muff]

You seem to have forgotten that there is no question that Barnes was trying to hit Machado. Whether the ultimate location of the pitch was intentional or not is irrelevant, because we know he was throwing at him and the pitch ended up behind his head.

I'm not going to get into the game of deciding whether he meant to injure Machado or not. But given the multiple shots the Sox took and the fact that the last one was behind his head, anyone surprised at the reaction from MLB, baseball writers and the general spots community is naive.

At the end of the day, if you are throwing at a batter and you are putting it anywhere in the vicinity of "up and in" you are signing up for whatever the consequences of the RESULT is, not the intention. If the ball got away because you just don't have the command to put the ball 6 inches off the face safely, then you shouldn't be throwing up and in in the first place. If you aren't capable of being sure that your attempt to throw down and in won't end up behind a batter's head, you shouldn't be throwing in on a batter in the first place.

Once you make the decision to do something like this, whether you intend to hit someone in the head or not, if the ball ends up near the head, then the punishment for it should not be based on trying to parse out intent.

 

[BJBossman]

The stupid side of these unwritten rules, vigilante stuff is how disproportionate the punishment can be. A guy does a batflip and could end up with an injury that puts them on the DL or even ends a career. On the other end Matte Cooke got off easy. He ends Mark Savard's career on an intentional dirty play, and he drops the gloves once and is seen to have paid for it according to the unwritten rules. I mean hockey talking heads even praised him for being a "stand up guy" because he fought Thornton.

I played college basketball in the 80s and some of the unwritten rule stuff was really stupid. The hard fould rules didn't even exist then and it was pretty easy to find an excuse to blast a guy that was in the air going to the rim, because of some perceived slight. The brilliant relief pitcher philosopher from the O's has already pointed out that the "rules" are different from team to team.

I am coaching my son's baseball team, and it annoys the crap out me that there is one coach in the league (U15) that will have his guys beaning batters, running into guys on the basepaths, etc over his concept of the "rules". This can include being too happy with a hit, coming out of the dugout for a hr, or anything else that bothers him when his team is losing.

Basketball is the easiest sport to retaliate in. A guy goes to the rim you can crush him while still making a legitimate play on the ball.

 

[BJBossman]

I doubt he was aiming for his head, but I'm still OK with the suspension. Bottom line is, he threw behind the head, and based on the observations out there about the speed and awkwardness of the whole thing, he was wild because he through with the intent to hit or scare him. If you can't throw at the butt, then let someone else do it. If you're gonna get all nervous and the ball ends up near the head, then you shouldn't be throwing at people.

It's just 4 games. Find the best time to drop the appeal, serve the time and move on.

With 2 consecutive days off the pen is well rested, now might be the best time?

 

[Buzzkill Pauley]

With 2 consecutive days off the pen is well rested, now might be the best time?

Damn right it would be.

DL Pedroia retroactive to Sunday, so he only needs to be out 7 more days. Then call up Taylor again. Porcello and Sale are each slated to work twice over the next week, and they're least likely to need a lot of bullpen innings. Pedroia gets an enforced rest period, and Taylor can be swapped out for Marrero when Barnes comes back after his 4 games.

 

[Red(s)HawksFan]

And, he's dropping the appeal. Suspension starts tonight.

 

[Lose Remerswaal]

Damn right it would be.

DL Pedroia retroactive to Sunday, so he only needs to be out 7 more days. Then call up Taylor again. Porcello and Sale are each slated to work twice over the next week, and they're least likely to need a lot of bullpen innings. Pedroia gets an enforced rest period, and Taylor can be swapped out for Marrero when Barnes comes back after his 4 games.

Why not to Saturday? Is there a limit on how much you can backdate?

 

[SouthernBoSox]

2 days rest with Porcello and Sale going... not gonna beat this timing.

 

[Red(s)HawksFan]

Why not to Saturday? Is there a limit on how much you can backdate?

I believe you can back date a DL assignment up to a week at most. No reason they can't backdate a Pedroia DL stint to Saturday.

 

[Buzzkill Pauley]

Why not to Saturday? Is there a limit on how much you can backdate?

Didn't Pedey get injured on Saturday? I was fighting allergies over the weekend and was benadryled out. If he got hurt Friday, even better. Push it as far back as it can go.

 

[Lose Remerswaal]

Yep, it was Friday that he got hurt. Then Wright pitched on Saturday and didn't retaliate.

 

[Minneapolis Millers]

...

I am coaching my son's baseball team, and it annoys the crap out me that there is one coach in the league (U15) that will have his guys beaning batters, running into guys on the basepaths, etc over his concept of the "rules". This can include being too happy with a hit, coming out of the dugout for a hr, or anything else that bothers him when his team is losing.

Ok, now here's a line I can draw pretty easily. If you're coaching 15 year olds to bean batters you're preaching child endangerment/maltreatment, and that IS criminal, not just stupid. Having coached kids a fair amount, if I knew another coach was doing this, I'd call him out loudly for it, in front of everyone, and I'd separately demand the league do something. And if he did it to one of my players, I'd pull my team and protest. (And if he did it to my own kid, I'd probably Gillooly him and take my just punishment.)

We don't have our kids play sports so that some f'n idiot adult can try to intentionally hurt them.

End of side rant.

 

[Flunky]

Ok, now here's a line I can draw pretty easily. If you're coaching 15 year olds to bean batters you're preaching child endangerment/maltreatment, and that IS criminal, not just stupid. Having coached kids a fair amount, if I knew another coach was doing this, I'd call him out loudly for it, in front of everyone, and I'd separately demand the league do something. And if he did it to one of my players, I'd pull my team and protest. (And if he did it to my own kid, I'd probably Gillooly him and take my just punishment.)

We don't have our kids play sports so that some f'n idiot adult can try to intentionally hurt them.

End of side rant.

Yeah, I always figured "unwritten" rules were the kinds of things that just sort of formed mostly from the player's side of things. Don't worry Little League coach, they'll learn who to plunk and who not to. What's next, lessons on how to slap in a dip or chaw and not hurl when you swallow some juice?

 

[reggiecleveland]

Ok, now here's a line I can draw pretty easily. If you're coaching 15 year olds to bean batters you're preaching child endangerment/maltreatment, and that IS criminal, not just stupid. Having coached kids a fair amount, if I knew another coach was doing this, I'd call him out loudly for it, in front of everyone, and I'd separately demand the league do something. And if he did it to one of my players, I'd pull my team and protest. (And if he did it to my own kid, I'd probably Gillooly him and take my just punishment.)

We don't have our kids play sports so that some f'n idiot adult can try to intentionally hurt them.

End of side rant.

It is tough to prove if the coach is ordering it. I have a talk to him in vague terms at the beginning of each year, saying we both recognise it is the coach's fault if it happens. I am not concerned about the beanballs, but I know he was endlessly chirp and moan about playing the game "the right way" if we get a four or five run lead and somebody smiles after a base hit.

 

[Savin Hillbilly]

I am not concerned about the beanballs

There are two possibilities here:

1) Either you are using the word "beanballs" incorrectly, or

2) WTF dude.

 

[reggiecleveland]

I don' think he will bean kids on my team, because we have called on him in the past, and he knows it will be a huge deal. But, I believe he will still beat the "unwritten rules" horse by bitching and moaning.

 

[Boggs26]

There are two possibilities here:

1) Either you are using the word "beanballs" incorrectly, or

2) WTF dude.

Fairly certain it's #1 in this case. I've found that outside of this board beanball and bean are used far more generally to mean any intentional hitting of a batter. I have to assume that's what's being discussed.

Which by the way, is still reprehensible for a little league coach.

 

[HowBoutDemSox]

Had it been up to Pedro Martinez, Manny Machado would have been the target of similar vigilantism that he faced last Sunday in Baltimore -- with one notable exception.

"If I was pitching, I was going to drill Machado, as much as I love him," Martinez said Friday before participating in a roundtable luncheon benefiting the Red Sox Foundation and the Foundation To Be Named Later. "The only thing I would have done differently was probably [throw] the ball a little bit lower. But everything else was the nature of baseball."

http://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/19267081/pedro-martinez-says-drilled-manny-machado-sliding-dustin-pedroia

 

[soxhop411]

well…

Manny is not coming to BOS

Bob Nightengale‏Verified account @BNightengale 26m26 minutes ago
Manny Machado completely goes off on profanity-laden tirade, blasting #Redsox organization, saying he has no respect for anyone in it
Bob Nightengale‏Verified account @BNightengale 23m23 minutes ago
Feud between #Redsox and #Orioles hardly over, w #orioles now feeling they owe Redsox retaliatory pitch. Machado absolutely incensed


Alex Speier‏ @alexspeier 12m12 minutes ago
Sale on Machado suggesting he obviously intended to hit him: 'Whatever, man. Not losing sleep tonight.’


Michael Giardi‏Verified account @MikeGiardi 31m31 minutes ago
Machado says MLB needs to do something about a pitcher throwing 100 MPHs at a batter's head. "I have a bat." Says he could go after pitcher
David Laurila‏ @DavidLaurilaQA 31m31 minutes ago
Manny Machado with a lot of F-bombs talking about pitches thrown behind him. Said he could go out there w/ bat but would be suspended a year


Michael Giardi‏Verified account @MikeGiardi 28m28 minutes ago
Machado dropped at least 43 eff bombs. (Rough estimate) I never once blinked but that was epic

 

[StuckOnYouk]

Has anyone brought up the pitch right at the head of Benintendi in the 7th or 8th (forget which)? Anyone on the Sox bring that up in the postgame? I know the score, yada yada but I think its fair to say that Bundy was targeting Betts yesterday with a 2-0 lead so who knows

 

[soxhop411]

Lest we forget Manny

 

[DanoooME]

That might be the best use of Abad ever.

Just kidding, John Farrell, don't do that please.

 

[soxhop411]

Here is the audio for those interested

http://www.csnne.com/video/manny-machado-goes-profanity-filled-rant-red-sox

[Expletive]. [Expletive], bull—-,” he said “[Expletive] [expletive] [expletive]. Coward stuff. I mean, that’s stuff that you don’t [expletive] do. But I mean, I’m not on that side. I’m not in that organization. They’re still thinking about that same slide that I did. There was no intention on hurting anybody and I’m still paying, I’m still trying to get hit at. Get thrown at on my [expletive] head. They’re [expletive] throwing everywhere. [Expletive] [expletive].

“I’ve lost my respect for that organization, that coaching staff and everyone over there.”

“I mean, if you’re going to [expletive] hit me, hit me,” he said. “Go ahead. [Expletive] hit me. Don’t let this [expletive] keep lingering, [expletive] around, and keep trying to hit people. It’s [expletive] bull—-. It’s [expletive] bulls—. MLB should do something about it. You have pitchers out there with [expletive] balls in their hands throwing 100 miles per hour trying to hit people. I’ve got a [expletive] bat too. I could go up there and crush somebody if I wanted to. But you know what, I’ll get suspended for a year, and the pitchers only get suspended for two games. That’s not cool

http://fullcount.weei.com/sports/boston/baseball/red-sox/2017/05/02/manny-machado-goes-on-tirade-for-ages-after-chris-sale-throws-behind-him-in-1st-inning/

 

[BigChara33]

I believe it was Donnie Hart. But he should absolutely get the same suspension as Barnes.

 

[BigChara33]

Has anyone brought up the pitch right at the head of Benintendi in the 7th or 8th (forget which)? Anyone on the Sox bring that up in the postgame? I know the score, yada yada but I think its fair to say that Bundy was targeting Betts yesterday with a 2-0 lead so who knows

I believe it was Donnie Hart. He should get the same 4 games as well.

 

[dhappy42]

One of the oldest unwritten rule in the Great Invisible Book of Unwritten Rules is:

"He who hath started it shalt not get to finish it."

Machado (and therefore the Orioles) started it with Machado's dirty slide, injuring Pedroia, whether it was intentional or not.

Did the Sox fuck up by not ploinking Machado the next day? Yes. Was Barnes's beanball too high? Yes. But that brings me to GIBUR's Second Commandment:

"When a pitcher throweth at you and misseth, you can cuss or you can laugh at the pitcher for missething, but you're an asshole if you retaliate."

How do you get even for NOT being hit by a pitch?

News bulletin: Showalter and Machado are both assholes.

The Sox had an injured player out for three games. And a pitcher suspended for four. And the Orioles? Machado had his feelings hurt. So they threw at Mookie? Dick move.

Sale was 100% correct to zip one behind Machado's knees. Now, see Commandment Two.

 

[BigChara33]

One of the oldest unwritten rule in the Great Invisible Book of Unwritten Rules is:

"He who hath started it shalt not get to finish it."

Machado (and therefore the Orioles) started it with Machado's dirty slide, injuring Pedroia, whether it was intentional or not.

Did the Sox fuck up by not ploinking Machado the next day? Yes. Was Barnes's beanball too high? Yes. But that brings me to GIBUR's Second Commandment:

"When a pitcher throweth at you and misseth, you can cuss or you can laugh at the pitcher for missething, but you're an asshole if you retaliate."

How do you get even for NOT being hit by a pitch?

News bulletin: Showalter and Machado are both assholes.

The Sox had an injured player out for three games. And a pitcher suspended for four. And the Orioles? Machado had his feelings hurt. So they threw at Mookie? Dick move.

Sale was 100% correct to zip one behind Machado's knees. Now, see Commandment Two.

They threw at Andrew Benintendi's head tonight. That opens the door up for any Sox pitcher to throw at Machado's head.

If i was just breaking the big leagues, or a career AAAA player, why not throw high on him? The kids proven he's a loose cannon. Throwing a bat at another player, threatening to use his bat tonight because a pitch went behind his legs after he blatantly injured a former MVP and future hall of famer? Kid needs to sit out for awhile. Whether it's the league taking action, or another player, he needs some time to think.

 

[Kenny F'ing Powers]

They threw at Andrew Benintendi's head tonight. That opens the door up for any Sox pitcher to throw at Machado's head.

If i was just breaking the big leagues, or a career AAAA player, why not throw high on him? The kids proven he's a loose cannon. Throwing a bat at another player, threatening to use his bat tonight because a pitch went behind his legs after he blatantly injured a former MVP and future hall of famer? Kid needs to sit out for awhile. Whether it's the league taking action, or another player, he needs some time to think.

Not surpsingly, you're missing the point.

Machado and Showalter play victim and it leaves the Red Sox alot more likely to say "fuck it, let sleeping dogs lie." I don't think that was Machado's reasoning - he's a hothead - but that will be the end result.

Everyone got their licks, Baltimore came out on top. Time to play baseball.

 

[Flunky]

Eh, I bet you ask any ballplayer they probably think it's all stupid but it'd be hard not to notice the big pile of tears coming from Baltimore over this. Potentially useful info.

 

[lexrageorge]

It is irritating that the local mediots declared Showalter a genius after Betts was plunked on Monday. But now Farrell and the Sox are deemed poor sports.

Time for the kids to go to bed so that some actual baseball can be played.

 

[dcmissle]

It is irritating that the local mediots declared Showalter a genius after Betts was plunked on Monday. But now Farrell and the Sox are deemed poor sports.

Time for the kids to go to bed so that some actual baseball can be played.

Well let's see. On one station, Brad Stevens should be fired if the Celts lose a series, and the Pats get an F for their draft. On the other, the morning guys are peddling fake news regarding Adam Jones..

Showalter and Duquette are a perfect pairing because they are both talented assholes (Duquette just hides it better now than in Boston.)

Ideally we move beyond this without anyone else getting hurt. Winning is all that matters.

 

[jimbobim]

One thing I think can definitively be learned from this ongoing old fashion AL East feud is the national media would be wise to wait before choosing a side.

Every national pundit/writer fell over themselves damning the Red Sox for the Barnes pitch (including Joel Sherman demanding a 25 game suspension for Barnes which is just absurd) and now they're reduced to bullshit reasoning like this

Maybe the Red Sox were upset about Dylan Bundy hitting Mookie Betts on Monday? Maybe, though it's pretty clear that Bundy didn't do that on purpose, not with a 2-0 lead in the sixth inning. Prior to Monday's game, all parties said everything had been resolved.
http://www.espn.com/blog/sweetspot/post/_/id/79200/real-or-not-red-sox-crossed-the-line-in-throwing-at-manny-machado

In two sentences Schoenfield exposes how because he took a position early on he can't flip flop even if the circumstances warrant it. On one hand everything had been resolved and on the other the Red Sox best player got beaned but " O shucks Bundy ( who had been dominating) surely didn't mean it !"

The bottom line is Showalter Machado and the O's whole team identity is built on needling and being the foil to the big budget Red Sox. It's a bit Rays esque from the Maddon years. And the national media eats the nonsense up.

Finally another excerpt from Shoenfield's piece. I'll take my baseball Pedro flavored thank you very much.

"You're not going to eliminate baseball players' wanting to be tough guys. Certainly, the desire to protect your teammates is understandable. And while a guy such as Pedro made a living intimidating batters with the occasional beanball or high-and-tight fastball, I'm also reminded that Sandy Koufax won 27 games with a 1.73 ERA in 1966 and didn't hit a single batter all season."

 

[H78]

I completely blame the Sox for all of this and agree with everything Machado is saying.

Machado seems like a guy that's highly respected by his peers - including Pedroia himself - and from the moment he slid into Pedroia you could see he genuinely felt horrible about it. It wasn't a dirty play; bloodthirsty Sox fans watching their division lead slide overreacted and immediately accused him of intentionally injuring Pedroia (again, something PEDROIA doesn't even seem to think was the case).

Thus, to appease those whiny fans, the Red Sox opted to puff out their chest and go for retaliation. Not only did they miss, but they came out looking *awful* because they missed inches from the guy's head.

The O's get understandably upset because Machado was targeted by a guy without the control to get the job done right. Honestly, if Machado had been hit in the ass the first time, this all probably ends there.

With that said, Machado never meant to hurt Pedroia in the first place. It was an freakin' accident. Guys get hurt playing sports on the professional level all the time. So the O's, understandably pissed that Machado was nearly killed, come out and hit Mookie nowhere next to his head because their pitchers seem much more capable of getting the job done "right."

So the Sox get pissed and throw at Machado AGAIN. And they miss AGAIN. If they were pissed about Mookie, don't throw at the guy who you almost killed a week prior...go after someone else. And actually HIT the guy in the ass. But again, the Sox are trying too hard to be macho, Sale gets too amped up, and he throws zillion-mile-an-hour fastball behind Machado.

Through all of this the Sox keep falling flat on their faces and making themselves look worse and worse - a day after racial tensions spark at Fenway and make national news. You don't think a black player having peanuts and N-bombs thrown at him was sufficient "payback?" That's where all of this needed to end.

This tells me that Farrell is out of touch and a bit of a dope. I'm embarrassed to be rooting for the Sox through all of this because they're looking like a bunch of paranoid assholes that can't even get out of their own way. They're also lacking any self-awareness, as an organization and fan base, after throwing behind a guy's head and treating a player as something than less than human because of his skin color. Again, the Jones stuff should have been the end of all of this.

I 100% back the O's here. Sox need to fucking cool it.

 

[SouthernBoSox]

I think its absolutely laughable to think Sale didn't intentionally throw behind him. He didn't want to hit him. It was a message. The entire problem is both of these parties are hypocrites. I CANNOT IMAGINE what Buck Showalter would say if this was reversed. "I've got a player who was intentionally injured and we're the only one who have had a batter hit..."

The entire thing is bullshit. You're INSANE if you think Bundy didn't hit Mookie on purpose. Insane. It was the perfect time to hit him because you can say "look at the situation, we would never...." It was intentional, end of story. If they didn't hit Mookie, it's over, but they did so here we go.

Also, Buck Showalter sat on a high horse after the first inning and told MLB Network "The umps are suppose to protect the players and clearly they aren't" Dude. STFU are you kidding me?

 

[jimbobim]

I completely blame the Sox for all of this and agree with everything Machado is saying.

Machado seems like a guy that's highly respected by his peers - including Pedroia himself - and from the moment he slid into Pedroia you could see he genuinely felt horrible about it. It wasn't a dirty play; bloodthirsty Sox fans watching their division lead slide overreacted and immediately accused him of intentionally injuring Pedroia (again, something PEDROIA doesn't even seem to think was the case).

The O's get understandably upset because Machado was targeted by a guy without the control to get the job done right...not to mention, they never meant to hurt Pedroia in the first place. It was an freakin' accident. Guys get hurt playing sports on the professional level all the time. So the O's, understandably pissed that Machado was nearly killed, come out and hit Mookie nowhere next to his head because their pitchers seem much more capable of getting the job done "right."

So the Sox get pissed and throw at Machado AGAIN. And they miss AGAIN. If they were pissed about Mookie, don't throw at the guy who you almost killed a week prior...go after someone else. And actually HIT the guy in the ass. But again, the Sox are trying too hard to be macho, Sale gets too amped up, and he throws zillion-mile-an-hour fastball behind Machado.

Through all of this and the Sox keep falling flat on their faces and making themselves look worse and worse - a day after racial tensions spark at Fenway and make national news. You don't think a black player having peanuts and N-bombs thrown at him was sufficient "payback?" That's where all of this needed to end.

This tells me that Farrell is out of touch and a bit of a dope. I'm embarrassed to be rooting for the Sox through all of this because they're looking like a bunch of paranoid assholes that can't even get out of their own way. They're also lacking any self-awareness, as an organization and fan base, after throwing behind a guy's head and treating a player as something than less than human because of his skin color. Again, the Jones stuff should have been the end of all of this.

I 100% back the O's here. Sox need to fucking cool it.

1) What does the despicable racist shit towards Jones have to do with Machado ? The conflation of the absolutely deplorable treatment of Jones with an old fashion ( see Pedro and Rays) AL East bean ball war makes no sense to me.
2) If Sale hits Machado he's probably run the Sox bullpen is cooked and your pitching is messed up for days. Sale definitely met for that ball to go exactly where it did.
3) I've got some real estate to sell you if a Sox hitter doesn't wear one today so who do you 100 percent endorse the O's drilling ? ( This isn't 100 percent fair to you but neither is connecting the completely indefensible Jones treatment to a fairly run of the mill bean ball tiff. I'm not endorsing the practice or more specifically throwing at people's heads but every single thing that has happened 1) Throwing at Machado 2) Throwing at Betts 3) Throwing at Machado again and 4) a Red Sox hitter being thrown at tonight has been very forseeable/predictable)

 

[H78]

I think its absolutely laughable to think Sale didn't intentionally throw behind him. He didn't want to hit him. It was a message. The entire problem is both of these parties are hypocrites. I CANNOT IMAGINE what Buck Showalter would say if this was reversed. "I've got a player who was intentionally injured and we're the only one who's had a batter hit..."

The entire thing is bullshit. You're INSANE if you think Bundy didn't hit Mookie on purpose. Insane. It was the perfect time to hit him because you can say "look at the situation, we would never...." It was intentional, end of story. If they didn't hit Mookie, it's over, but they did so here we go.

Also, Buck Showalter sat on a high horse after the first inning and told MLB Network "The umps are suppose to protect the players and clearly they aren't" Dude. STFU are you kidding me?

You think Sale risked ejection to "send a message?"

 

[jimbobim]

I think its absolutely laughable to think Sale didn't intentionally throw behind him. He didn't want to hit him. It was a message. The entire problem is both of these parties are hypocrites. I CANNOT IMAGINE what Buck Showalter would say if this was reversed. "I've got a player who was intentionally injured and we're the only one who's had a batter hit..."

The entire thing is bullshit. You're INSANE if you think Bundy didn't hit Mookie on purpose. Insane. It was the perfect time to hit him because you can say "look at the situation, we would never...." It was intentional, end of story. If they didn't hit Mookie, it's over, but they did so here we go.

Also, Buck Showalter sat on a high horse after the first inning and told MLB Network "The umps are suppose to protect the players and clearly they aren't" Dude. STFU are you kidding me?

This was really well said. +1

 

[jtn46]

I just wish Sale picked a different target. Protecting Mookie was appropriate imo, and Sale doing it is fine, great even, but it comes off as an extension of the bad slide when it maybe feels more 1 for 1 if he plunks Trumbo or Davis.

 

[H78]

1) What does the despicable racist shit towards Jones have to do with Machado ? The conflation of the absolutely deplorable treatment of Jones with an old fashion ( see Pedro and Rays) AL East bean ball war makes no sense to me.
2) If Sale hits Machado he's probably run the Sox bullpen is cooked and your pitching is messed up for days. Sale definitely met for that ball to go exactly where it did.
3) I've got some real estate to sell you if a Sox hitter doesn't wear one today so who do you 100 percent endorse the O's drilling ? ( This isn't 100 percent fair to you but neither is connecting the completely indefensible Jones treatment to a fairly run of the mill bean ball tiff. I'm not endorsing the practice or more specifically throwing at people's heads but every single thing that has happened 1) Throwing at Machado 2) Throwing at Betts 3) Throwing at Machado again and 4) a Red Sox hitter being thrown at tonight has been very forseeable/predictable)

My point about the Jones treatment is the Sox, as an organization, needed to take a step back and see the big picture. They're being associated with fans that are hurling fucking racist shit at black players on the opposing team (in 2017!) and their next move *that they know will make headlines* is to try and hit a player - that they nearly decapitated a week or so earlier and a guy that never meant to hurt anyone in the first place - a second time?!

Stay classy, Sox. And if you're a fan bending over backwards to protect the laundry, you stay classy, too.

 

[SouthernBoSox]

My point about the Jones treatment is the Sox, as an organization, needed to take a step back and see the big picture. They're being associated with fans that are hurling fucking racist shit at black players on the opposing team (in 2017!) and their next move *that they know will make headlines* is to try and hit a player - that they nearly decapitated a week or so earlier and a guy that never meant to hurt anyone in the first place - a second time?!

Stay classy, Sox. And if you're a fan bending over backwards to protect the laundry, you stay classy, too.

This is the dumbest fucking thing I've ever read on my time on this board and honestly it's insulting to the entire racism issue. Stop. Bringing that into this argument is the lowest of low. You actually think, like you really truly think, that Chris Sale throwing behind a hitter has anything to do with the Adam Jones incident? Really? Every single person associated with the team.. Owner, VP, Players, hell even the fans by applauding Jones, have showed their feelings on the Jones incident. Connecting Sale throwing behind Machado to that... is so cheap... is so low... is so fucking irresponsible on your part... just stop.

 

[jimbobim]

My point about the Jones treatment is the Sox, as an organization, needed to take a step back and see the big picture. They're being associated with fans that are hurling fucking racist shit at black players on the opposing team (in 2017!) and their next move *that they know will make headlines* is to try and hit a player - that they nearly decapitated a week or so earlier and a guy that never meant to hurt anyone in the first place - a second time?!

Stay classy, Sox. And if you're a fan bending over backwards to protect the laundry, you stay classy, too.

So in your first post the Sox are incompetent macho men for not throwing at Machado earlier or properly to appease fans and now their intentionally and improperly "making headlines" too soon after the Jones incident to make themselves look worse?

With regards to Jones I called that racist deplorable and indefensible which is pretty new way to "protect the laundry".

 

[RetractableRoof]

I think its absolutely laughable to think Sale didn't intentionally throw behind him. He didn't want to hit him. It was a message. The entire problem is both of these parties are hypocrites. I CANNOT IMAGINE what Buck Showalter would say if this was reversed. "I've got a player who was intentionally injured and we're the only one who have had a batter hit..."

The entire thing is bullshit. You're INSANE if you think Bundy didn't hit Mookie on purpose. Insane. It was the perfect time to hit him because you can say "look at the situation, we would never...." It was intentional, end of story. If they didn't hit Mookie, it's over, but they did so here we go.

Also, Buck Showalter sat on a high horse after the first inning and told MLB Network "The umps are suppose to protect the players and clearly they aren't" Dude. STFU are you kidding me?

IMO, everything that needed to be known about how Showalter handles things can be found the message pitch to Mookie Betts when he was in the midst of his 5 homers in 7 ABs.

 

[RetractableRoof]

This is the dumbest fucking thing I've ever read on my time on this board and honestly it's insulting to the entire racism issue. Stop. Bringing that into this argument is the lowest of low. You actually think, like you really truly think, that Chris Sale throwing behind a hitter has anything to do with the Adam Jones incident? Really? Every single person associated with the team.. Owner, VP, Players, hell even the fans by applauding Jones, have showed their feelings on the Jones incident. Connecting Sale throwing behind Machado to that... is so cheap... is so low... is so fucking irresponsible on your part... just stop.

Especially since it was widely noted that Sales purposely stayed off the mound for an extended period to allow the applause for Jones to build/linger.

 

[H78]

This is the dumbest fucking thing I've ever read on my time on this board and honestly it's insulting to the entire racism issue. Stop. Bringing that into this argument is the lowest of low. You actually think, like you really truly think, that Chris Sale throwing behind a hitter has anything to do with the Adam Jones incident? Really? Every single person associated with the team.. Owner, VP, Players, hell even the fans by applauding Jones, have showed their feelings on the Jones incident. Connecting Sale throwing behind Machado to that... is so cheap... is so low... is so fucking irresponsible on your part... just stop.

It's dumb just because you don't like the point that as an organization, the Sox should see the whole picture, display an ounce of restraint, and focus on showing a bit of class?

Okay. Go on defending bean-ball baseball triggered by a baseball play that ended with an accidental injury. That's the game we all love.

If the roles were reversed, with the Yankees in the Sox's position and the Sox in the O's position, this place would be melting down over how classless the MFYs are. If my post is dumb, the posts defending this shit are an embarrassment.

 

[SouthernBoSox]

IMO, everything that needed to be known about how Showalter handles things can be found the message pitch to Mookie Betts when he was in the midst of his 5 homers in 7 ABs.

Here is the highest of class Orioles throwing at Mookie's head because you know... he was hitting too well...

http://nesn.com/2016/06/mookie-betts-hits-leadoff-home-run-in-second-straight-game-vs-orioles/