Barcelona 2014-15: Mes Que Un Cleanout

bosox4283 · May 19, 2014

The other news is that Barcelona is set to bring back Rafinha, who was on loan at Celta with Luis Enrique, and Deulofeu, who was with Everton this past campaign.

My Luis Enrique fan fact: I married a woman from Asturias, and Luis Enrique is distant family.

Zososoxfan · May 20, 2014

Love the thread title. I think it would be a mistake to ship out Pedro AND Alexis in the same transfer window. Luis Enrique may change the formation drastically, but those 2 are the best wingers we have at the moment and are familiar with the Barca attack. In other words, they were much better than Neymar this season. Can anyone comment on Luis Enrique's tactics? Do we see a return to Pep's 4-3-3 with high pressing? Or will he bring new dynamics to the table? Also, centerbacks x2.

bosox4283 · Jun 18, 2014

Cesc is officially out, and now Xavi seems on the verge on also leaving Barcelona. Rumors are that Xavi is headed to Qatar.

With Puyol retiring, Xavi departing, and Valdes leaving, Barcelona has lost its heart and soul. It's sort of the equivalent of the Yankees saying goodbye to Rivera, Jeter, and Pettitte.

Vinho Tinto · Jun 18, 2014

bosox4283 said:
Cesc is officially out, and now Xavi seems on the verge on also leaving Barcelona. Rumors are that Xavi is headed to Qatar.

With Puyol retiring, Xavi departing, and Valdes leaving, Barcelona has lost its heart and soul. It's sort of the equivalent of the Yankees saying goodbye to Rivera, Jeter, and Pettitte.

I think that is a dead on comparison.

A lot of upheaval there with Pep leaving, Tito's illness, and Martino never looking like a good fit for the club. This is after Rijkaard and Guardiola having control for a decade. For a big Spanish club, that is the equivalent of the time Chuck Noll and Bill Cowher coached the Steelers. Best of luck to Luis Enrique.

Morgan's Magic Snowplow · Jun 18, 2014

Dani Alves is stunned by the possibility of Xavi leaving Barcelona this summer.

Al-Arabi coach Dan Petrescu claimed on Tuesday that the midfielder had signed a pre-contract agreement with the Qatari outfit, though the 34-year-old has in fact yet to make a final decision on his future.

Although he could yet play an important part for new coach Luis Enrique, Xavi has been told by Barcelona that he is free to leave if he decides that he wants to bring an end to his Camp Nou career - something that Alves feels would be an incredible shock.

"Are you kidding me?" he asked AS when they made him aware of the rumours. "I cannot believe it. You must be kidding. It cannot be.

"Not Xavi. If Xavi, who is the emblem of the club, can leave, then anyone can leave now. I don't understand it. You have me in shock. It can't be. Xavi cannot leave Barca."

The full-back was then asked if he will stay with the club, to which he replied: "I hope so, I think so, but now you have left me unsettled. You were kidding with Xavi, right?"

bosox4283 · Jun 18, 2014

OilCanMDS said:
This Xavi news is kind of surprising right now since Barca hasn't been linked with anybody that can replace him and there doesn't appear to be any internal options. From what I have seen of Rakitic, he likes to dribble at guys and attempt long passes rather than sit back and ping the ball around like Xavi. The young MFs that could contribute this year don't seem to play Xavi's role either. Rafinha seems to play farther up the pitch, Roberto is a box-to-box guy that doesn't have the skill to play Xavi's position and I have heard nothing that gives me the impression Denis Suarez is ready to play with the first team. I think Barca will have to go out and sign another MF, but who?

1. Denis Suarez is headed to Sevilla for two years in the Rakitic deal. So, in a sense, you bought Rakitic with Cesc's money and then gave up a promising young player for two years (and, IIRC, Sevilla has an option to buy).

2. Doesn't the Thiago move seem so shorted sighted at this point? He's head and shoulders above dos Santos, Afellay, Tello, Cuenca, Roberto, and maybe Rafinha.

3. Don't forget: Iniesta is 30. Who is going to replace him?

SoxVindaloo · Jun 19, 2014

The Xavi rumours are pretty shocking even if he is in decline. What about Vidal? Seems to be some rumbling about him coming over from Juve. The link is a bit old but I have seen it more recently also.

http://www.givemesport.com/436447-barcelona-open-talks-with-manchester-united-target-arturo-vidal

coremiller · Jun 19, 2014

bosox4283 said:
1. Denis Suarez is headed to Sevilla for two years in the Rakitic deal. So, in a sense, you bought Rakitic with Cesc's money and then gave up a promising young player for two years (and, IIRC, Sevilla has an option to buy).

2. Doesn't the Thiago move seem so shorted sighted at this point? He's head and shoulders above dos Santos, Afellay, Tello, Cuenca, Roberto, and maybe Rafinha.

3. Don't forget: Iniesta is 30. Who is going to replace him?

Three years ago it seems like Pep saw the future of the team as Thiago and Cesc. Now Pep, Thiago, and Cesc are all gone and the future is ...?

Morgan's Magic Snowplow · Jun 19, 2014

OilCanMDS said:
SoxVindaloo, I would love for Barca to get Vidal. From what I have seen, his passing is excellent and he brings more athleticism to the CM position than Xavi. If the MF next season is Iniesta, Rakitic, Vidal and Busquets, I would have to imagine the team will play a different style with more dribbling and probably more attempts at vertical play.

Even without Vidal, all the other moves really suggest that the Tiki Taka era might be over. If they wanted to keep trying to playing the same style even without Xavi, then they would have groomed Fabregas for the position and kept him around.

I think this is actually a wise strategy. They could waste several years trying to recreate the magic of the past without the principal magician, or they could try to get ahead of trends in the game again by combining their dynamic front line with a faster, more physical midfield that looks to play much more directly.

SoxVindaloo · Jun 21, 2014

Morgan's Magic Snowplow said:
Even without Vidal, all the other moves really suggest that the Tiki Taka era might be over. If they wanted to keep trying to playing the same style even without Xavi, then they would have groomed Fabregas for the position and kept him around.

I think this is actually a wise strategy. They could waste several years trying to recreate the magic of the past without the principal magician, or they could try to get ahead of trends in the game again by combining their dynamic front line with a faster, more physical midfield that looks to play much more directly.

Can we agree on what the definition of Tiki Taka is? I agree that without Xavi the nature of Barca's offensive style will shift, but as long as Iniesta and Messi are there the multiple short pass give and go will still be a staple of the Barca offense. It might resemble the good play under Martino from September to January this year where the 1st 2/3rds of the field was covered quickly with longer passes. I am not sure the back 1/3rd offense will look too much different though.

bosox4283 · Jun 30, 2014

Barca is looking to leave its (bite) mark on the market by signing Luis Suarez. I suppose Barcelona is chomping at the bit to improve its roster after last year's mediocre-for-Barcelona season. Suarez is immensely talented -- there is a reason why he may cost Barca something between 50-80 million euros.

This potential signing makes me think three things:

1. Thankfully, Atletico won La Liga last year. Last year, Real Madrid added Bale and Barcelona picked up Neymar, two acquisitions that cost over 100 million euros each. This summer, Real Madrid may sign Falcao (and Kroos!) and Barcelona may get Suarez. I mean, really? Que aburrida es La Liga! Just imagine if Ramos had not saved RM's season by netting that header against Atletico in the 93rd minute of the Champions League final...

2. Where would Suarez play in Barcelona? A top three with Neymar, Messi, and Suarez?

3. Barcelona would have five of the top 20--maybe top 25--players in the world: Messi, Neymar, Suarez, Iniesta, Busquests.

teddykgb · Jun 30, 2014

bosox4283 said:
3. Barcelona would have five of the top 20--maybe top 25--players in the world: Messi, Neymar, Suarez, Iniesta, Busquests.

One of these things is not like the other....are you Sergio Busquets mother/father?

coremiller · Jun 30, 2014

I'm also not convinced that Neymar is really that good. Talented, sure, but a Top 25 player? I think he's being overrated because he's Brazilian. Is he really any better than, say, Alexis Sanchez?

Morgan's Magic Snowplow · Jun 30, 2014

A lot of the attraction with Neymar is that he's just 22 and likely to get better. I wouldn't have a problem considering him a Top 25 player but agree he's overrated (many rankings have him as a Top 10 player for instance).

One thing I've seen this World Cup is that both Neymar and Sanchez are clearly a lot better and more influential when played through the middle or otherwise in a role with substantial room to freelance. At Barca, though, its ultimately the Messi show and these guys are expected to play more disciplined roles operating primarily from one of the wings. They don't get everything out of the player that way.

For that reason, while its hard to argue with a Neymar-Suarez-Messi frontline, I think the whole might be less than the sum of the parts. The sum of the parts is so astronomical that maybe it doesn't matter but if I were leading Barca and had 80-90M to spend I'd put it toward Vidal plus Hummels (or similar players), not the purchase of another frontline galactico.

bosox4283 · Jun 30, 2014

teddykgb said:
One of these things is not like the other....are you Sergio Busquets mother/father?

FWIW, The Guardian had Busquets at 27. The International Business Times put him at 10. ESPN had Busquets at 40 in the list of best players at the World Cup.

That said, I think Busquets was the weak link for Spain at the World Cup, and I don't like his play hardly at all. We'll see how he plays with Xavi gone and Iniesta aging.

soxfan121 · Jun 30, 2014

Morgan's Magic Snowplow said:
For that reason, while its hard to argue with a Neymar-Suarez-Messi frontline, I think the whole might be less than the sum of the parts. The sum of the parts is so astronomical that maybe it doesn't matter but if I were leading Barca and had 80-90M to spend I'd put it toward Vidal plus Hummels (or similar players), not the purchase of another frontline galactico.

This. Vidal is the kind of industrious/motor player that makes everyone better. And Barcelona needs to fix the defense. Pique looks to have lost his form, Alves is aging, Alba isn't a great defender and Mascherano is both short and not really a central defender.

rodderick · Jun 30, 2014

coremiller said:
I'm also not convinced that Neymar is really that good. Talented, sure, but a Top 25 player? I think he's being overrated because he's Brazilian. Is he really any better than, say, Alexis Sanchez?

You need to watch him more often, then. I've seen Neymar play since he was 16 years old, and there's absolutely no question he's among the 25 best players in the world. Barcelona's system is too rigid for him to flourish and show the best of his abilities, but if he's given a little more freedom, he'll kill it in La Liga, as he usually does for the Brazil national team.

coremiller · Jun 30, 2014

rodderick said:
You need to watch him more often, then. I've seen Neymar play since he was 16 years old, and there's absolutely no question he's among the 25 best players in the world. Barcelona's system is too rigid for him to flourish and show the best of his abilities, but if he's given a little more freedom, he'll kill it in La Liga, as he usually does for the Brazil national team.

The Brazilian national team is pretty small sample sizes, since he stepped up into the national team Brazil just haven't played very many meaningful games since they didn't have to qualify. He was excellent at the Confed Cup last year but he was terrible at the 2012 Olympics. His first season at Barca was disappointing but there was always going to be an adjustment period and the jury is still out there. I never saw him play much at Santos since the Brazilian leagues are not televised much here.

He's certainly talented but I wonder whether he has the strength and tactical understanding to be consistently successful against world-class competition. No doubt he has pace and trickery on the ball and is a good finisher, but for me that's not enough to be a Top 25 player. Is he really any better than Sanchez, or, say, Eden Hazard, let alone Ronaldo, Bale, Robben, Ribery, etc. (all of whom play similar tactical roles as "tricky, goal-scoring wingers")? And that's just roughly within his position.

Zomp · Jun 30, 2014

He's top 25 for me, not sure about top 10.

teddykgb · Jun 30, 2014

Neymar is probably right around that 10-15 on current ability but he's so young that he seems to have room to grow into the player everyone wants him to be. Playing with Messi isn't "easy" when you're also expected to dominate a match (ask Tevez, Aguero, Di maria, etc) so I've got some sympathy for the idea that it's not easy for him at Barca right now to live up to the hype. He goes to ground too easily though.

bosox, i'm not questioning your credentials, but any publication that puts Biscuits in the top 25 just shouldn't be taken credibly. He's a fine player, he may not even be in the top 25 in his league, let alone the world.

SoxVindaloo · Jun 30, 2014

Morgan's Magic Snowplow said:
but if I were leading Barca and had 80-90M to spend I'd put it toward Vidal plus Hummels (or similar players), not the purchase of another frontline galactico.

+2 Hummels and Vidal-- even with the loss of Alexis would make them really tough in the midfield and way more stout on set pieces. No Suarez please, he is a walking sideshow even with all the talent.

bosox4283 · Jun 30, 2014

teddykgb said:
Neymar is probably right around that 10-15 on current ability but he's so young that he seems to have room to grow into the player everyone wants him to be. Playing with Messi isn't "easy" when you're also expected to dominate a match (ask Tevez, Aguero, Di maria, etc) so I've got some sympathy for the idea that it's not easy for him at Barca right now to live up to the hype. He goes to ground too easily though.

bosox, i'm not questioning your credentials, but any publication that puts Biscuits in the top 25 just shouldn't be taken credibly. He's a fine player, he may not even be in the top 25 in his league, let alone the world.

Understood. I'm not personally high on Busquets, but my original post was meant to point out that people who know more than me think highly of him.

AgentOrange · Jul 1, 2014

Is the Spanish press really on about Vidal to Barcelona? Because I'm not seeing him really linked there in anything I've read outside of this thread. Juventus is adamant he won't be sold, and they've got the leverage here with Vidal under contract until 2018.

Zososoxfan · Jul 11, 2014

Cross-posting Miracle's post from the Liverpool thread re: Suarez:

It's official.

So, Barca continues the proud tradition of signing world-class mercurial strikers and neglecting their porous defense. Puyol retiring is bad enough, but with Dani Alves getting benched for Maicon for the Selecao, the defense is really starting to look thin. Also, how do you deploy Messi, Iniesta, Neymar, and Suarez at the same time?? I mean, it sounds great in theory, but unless they plan on rotating these players or have an entirely new system with [likely] Iniesta and Messi becoming AMFs, I don't see how this works. Also keep in mind that Pedro is still on the squad as well as (I think officially) Alexis.

Also +34634563 for bringing in Hummels and/or Vidal.

Zomp · Jul 11, 2014

Wouldn't Iniesta just shift back into the midfield behind the front 3 with Rakitic and another midfielder?

mikeford · Jul 11, 2014

Zososoxfan said:
. Also keep in mind that Pedro is still on the squad as well as (I think officially) Alexis.

Nope

coremiller · Jul 11, 2014

Meh. Like Neymar, this is a vanity signing to prove they can compete with Real Madrid for big names. Suarez is a great player but he's not what they need. I see this ending similar to the end of the Rijkaard era when they tried to play Messi, Ronaldinho, Eto'o, and Henry together and failed miserably.

Tactically, I imagine they plan on dropping Iniesta deeper into midfield to play a more Xavi-esque role while making Messi more of a #10, or playing Messi as a false 9 with Neymar and Suarez cutting inside from the wings (the role David Villa played before he got hurt). I don't really see this working though, too many egos and only one ball to go around.

AgentOrange · Jul 11, 2014

I mean, feel free to continue dreaming but Vidal is as likely to play for Barca next year as Iniesta is for Juventus.

DJnVa · Jul 11, 2014

AgentOrange said:
I mean, feel free to continue dreaming but Vidal is as likely to play for Barca next year as Iniesta is for Juventus.

Transfer Channel ‏@TransferChannel 20m
BREAKING: Arturo Vidal's agent has finalised personal terms with Manchester United. United have submitted a €40m bid to Juventus.

Zomp · Jul 11, 2014

That is a joke of a twitter account.

DJnVa · Jul 11, 2014

Zomp said:
That is a joke of a twitter account.

Probably, it just happened to pop up right after I read this thread.

I do say I enjoy all of the "We'll be breaking HUGE ManU transfer news at 7 pm" accounts out there.

Zososoxfan · Jul 11, 2014

Is Xavi officially gone as well?

Morgan's Magic Snowplow · Jul 11, 2014

OilCanMDS said:
I expect Barcelona to deploy a 4-3-3 again. Rakitic mentioned in his introduction that he is ready to play defensive mid, which I think signals that Barca broached this idea with him. I could see Rakitic and Busquets staying back to help cover the D and prevent the counter with Rakitic having more freedom to move forward. Iniesta will play in front of them. Neymar, Messi and Suarez (L-R) will play across the top with Messi having freedom to drop back into the MF to pick up the ball. I imagine Suarez and Neymar will have some to freedom to drop back into the MF as well, but dependent on where Messi is and the matchup.

That sounds right to me. I think you can question the wisdom of using resources on this position rather than the defense but fitting these players into the team won't be the problem that some other posters have been making of it. Suarez will largely take Sanchez's place in the team. He'll probably play more centrally than Sanchez typically did, with Neymar on the left and Messi nominally on the right but with license to move around and switch. Suarez is used to playing in a very fluid front line so I don't see that being an issue. Iniesta isn't an issue because he's much better playing as an AMF playing behind the front three anyway - one of their big problems recently seemed to be that the need to force Fabregas into the team often pushed Iniesta onto the wing, where he couldn't be as influential as a playmaker. So I see that move as a positive.

I have no idea what their plans are but if they can bring in a top class CB they're going to be right there with Real and Bayern as CL favorites IMO.

bosox4283 · Jul 12, 2014

Barcelona said that they have 120M euros to spend this offseason. So far, the team has spent 123M but brought in 77M through selling Cesc and Alexis. In this case, the team can still spend upwards of 74M euros, which is more than enough to acquire a CB or two. AS speculates that Marquinhos and Mathieu are the top two targets.

soxfan121 · Jul 12, 2014

bosox4283 said:
Barcelona said that they have 120M euros to spend this offseason. So far, the team has spent 123M but brought in 77M through selling Cesc and Alexis. In this case, the team can still spend upwards of 74M euros, which is more than enough to acquire a CB or two. AS speculates that Marquinhos and Mathieu are the top two targets.

Does the 123M count Rakitic and ter Stegen?

cjdmadcow · Jul 14, 2014

As things have worked out, the first La Liga game for the new season may be one of those occasions where one of the fans could get a game up front.

Messi - Completely knackered and needs a break
Neymar - Hopefully walking unaided but unlikely to be playing
Suarez - Suspended
Sanchez - Gone to Arsenal

By not playing one at all, I think this may be taking the notion of a 'false 9' a little far.

soxfan121 · Jul 14, 2014

Jean Marie Dongou will get some run with the first team.

SoxFanInCali · Jul 14, 2014

Apparently there is a clause in Suarez's contract that specifically prohibits him from biting someone.

If only Liverpool had thought of that...

Infield Infidel · Jul 14, 2014

A banned player transferred to a team with a transfer ban. You can't make this up.

I think he'll do really well, it's a pick your poison front line, and he'll be needed because who knows how long before Neymar is 100%.

SoxFanInCali · Jul 14, 2014

The problem, as cjd said above, is they will start the season with a gassed Messi, hurt Neymar, and suspended Suarez.

EDIT: Assuming that Suarez's suspension doesn't magically disappear now that he plays for Barca.

SoxVindaloo · Jul 15, 2014

SoxFanInCali said:
The problem, as cjd said above, is they will start the season with a gassed Messi, hurt Neymar, and suspended Suarez.

EDIT: Assuming that Suarez's suspension doesn't magically disappear now that he plays for Barca.

Looks like Pedro and Tello will get serious minutes for a the first 8-10 games (then basically zero after that). It will be interesting to see how well Enrique can blend Leo, Neymar, and Suarez together when they are all ready. As others have said it is not exactly rocket science but do you really need someone the caliber of Neymar way out on a flank creating space for someone else?

Vinho Tinto · Jul 15, 2014

Tello is joining Porto on a 2 year loan. They'll pay Barcelona 2m plus wages. Option to buy on 8m.

Zososoxfan · Jul 15, 2014

Don't forget Iniesta. I think his task will be to combine with the big 3 to make this all work. Also, other than Suarez, I can see the forwards all having slippery positioning and interchanging frequently a la Germany.

bosox4283 · Jul 15, 2014

SoxVindaloo said:
Looks like Pedro and Tello will get serious minutes for a the first 8-10 games (then basically zero after that). It will be interesting to see how well Enrique can blend Leo, Neymar, and Suarez together when they are all ready. As others have said it is not exactly rocket science but do you really need someone the caliber of Neymar way out on a flank creating space for someone else?

Deulofeu replaces Tello on the roster, basically.

soxfan121 · Jul 16, 2014

Xavi to NYCFC in 2015 (for a reported salary of $24M over three seasons) allows him to have a victory lap/retirement season with Barca before getting a final payday in the world's retirement community. He will reportedly join David Villa with NYCFC and that team will instantly be watchable.

Titans Bastard · Jul 16, 2014

soxfan121 said:
Xavi to NYCFC in 2015 (for a reported salary of $24M over three seasons) allows him to have a victory lap/retirement season with Barca before getting a final payday in the world's retirement community. He will reportedly join David Villa with NYCFC and that team will instantly be watchable.

Yikes, that's a lot of money for what's going to be a very creaky Xavi.

The price of getting the attention of NYC's hipster Europoseurs, I suppose.

Barcelona 2014-15: Mes Que Un Cleanout

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