Back up QBs, why are they so bad?

[ShaneTrot]

After watching that Miami-Tennessee game last, it occurred to me that most backup QBs are terrible. Rudolph and Huntley each threw for under 100 yards and their coaches seemed to be afraid to let them throw. Miami has great skill players and their offense has been pitiful with Huntley and Thompson, I am starting to to believe Tua is good. Besides old guys who have been good QBs before like Flacco, and Dalton most back QBs are awful. It's weird to watch NFL games and think can this guy complete a pass? It's the pinnacle of the sport. Everyone seems surprised that Malik Willis is decent. I know all talent is a pyramid but there seems to be a huge difference between even a mediocre starter like David Carr and the Kyle Trasks of the league. I would think with the increased passing in college football, we would be seeing better QBs. The proliferation in passing has certainly generated more wide receivers. What gives?

 

[Jnai]

Well, how many starting QBs are "good"?

There's a lot of compounded issues. The skill cap is essentially the worst starter (except for the rare developing rookie situation), many offenses are designed around a starter's unique skill set (no one can really effectively back up Lamar Jackson, e.g.), and the amount and level of practice is vastly different.

College football is played at such a different skill level it's almost not even the same game.

 

[radsoxfan]

The mental side of NFL quarterbacking is really hard and the Venn diagram overlap of acceptable NFL arm and quality NFL QB processing speed is clearly vanishingly small. Only a handful of guys have the physical skills and mental aptitude to pull it off well.

Obviously the backups and out of league journeymen are trying, they just can't do it consistently. More often than not, the processing piece seems to do them in. It's a unique and hard to evaluate skill until players get to the NFL. Plenty of guys have big arms. Also, a bad split-second decision by a QB often is catastrophic, unlike other positions.

A major part of the QB salaries getting out of control is related to the delta between the 10th best and 40th best QB in the NFL. It has massive consequences on winning and losing. The 10th best and 40th best RB in the NFL, not so much.

 

[cshea]

Practices.

Snaps are limited and they all go to the starter.

 

[radsoxfan]

Practices.

Snaps are limited and they all go to the starter.

This definitely exacerbates the processing problem, though is not really a major factor.

Most of these crummy backups are going to be bad even with plenty of practice reps. When they bubble up to the top for whatever reason and get those reps, most of the time they still stink.

 

[NextBigThing8184]

There aren’t even 20 good starters, it stands to reason that the vast majority of backups will be pretty awful and largely interchangeably so.

Other than old guy at the end or young guy not yet given a chance, there aren’t too many guys you’d say are backups and also good QB because if they were even sort of decent they’d be starters (like Brissett who is bad but probably still the 28th or 30th best QB in the league)

 

[Cellar-Door]

Lot of factors.
Less practice time, many guys don't have as much time in college
Big group of starters retired early rather than become backups.
Turnover at backup QB means less system familiarity
Many offenses are heavily tailored to the skills of the starter, getting a mirror in a backup is tough
Also.... playing QB is harder than ever given defensive changes in skill/speed/size.

 

[Kliq]

The mental side of NFL quarterbacking is really hard and the Venn diagram overlap of acceptable NFL arm and quality NFL QB processing speed is clearly vanishingly small. Only a handful of guys have the physical skills and mental aptitude to pull it off well.

Obviously the backups and out of league journeymen are trying, they just can't do it consistently. More often than not, the processing piece seems to do them in. It's a unique and hard to evaluate skill until players get to the NFL. Plenty of guys have big arms. Also, a bad split-second decision by a QB often is catastrophic, unlike other positions.

A major part of the QB salaries getting out of control is related to the delta between the 10th best and 40th best QB in the NFL. It has massive consequences on winning and losing. The 10th best and 40th best RB in the NFL, not so much.

This is I think exactly it. That and offensive systems are so complicated that it makes the processing of things so much more challenging for players. I do wonder if the league is full of these "genius" offensive coordinators that struggle to dumb down their system to help less experienced QBs succeed. Everyone wants to run an offense like Mahomes is their QB but that just isn't feasible--it would be like every NBA offense being run like Steph Curry is on your team.

I think back to how Peyton Manning was widely considered to be the PERFECT QB in terms of his skill set, but would someone as slow and immobile as Peyton be considered for the #1 pick today? The league has really shifted into requiring a dynamic, athletic performer at QB that can pick up yards with his legs and throw on the run.

A friend of mine who is a major draftnik told me that Zach Wilson being so bad has largely shifted the way teams approach QB prospects--they are shifting back to players who thrive in-structure as opposed to QBs that thrive out-of-structure, but we will see if that remains true.

 

[SemperFidelisSox]

The NFL could really benefit from a quality minor league system like the other sports, but that really isn’t possible.

 

[ThePrideofShiner]

This thread feels like a great reminder to Seahawks fans to count their lucky stars that Geno Smith has turned out as good as he has.

 

[54thMA]

There aren’t even 20 good starters.........................

Agreed.

It's a watered down league and as you pointed out, there aren't even enough good quarterbacks to go around as starters, nevermind back ups.

Crazy to think at one point, the Patriots had Bledsoe as the starter, Brady as the back up, then Brady as the starter, Garoppolo as the back up.

 

[Salem's Lot]

The mental side of NFL quarterbacking is really hard and the Venn diagram overlap of acceptable NFL arm and quality NFL QB processing speed is clearly vanishingly small. Only a handful of guys have the physical skills and mental aptitude to pull it off well.

To add to this, I would also assume that a bunch of the small pool of 18-20 year old male athletes that possess an NFL level arm and elite processing ability are smart enough to realize that it’s a lot safer physically and most times more lucrative financially to pursue throwing a baseball for a living than a football.

 

[NAR29996]

The NFL could really benefit from a quality minor league system like the other sports, but that really isn’t possible.

This might be a dumb question, but could you emulate some of that with controlled practices, as is sometimes done in the pre season?

 

[jacklamabe65]

The Pats' backup QB is pretty good.

 

[joe dokes]

This is I think exactly it. That and offensive systems are so complicated that it makes the processing of things so much more challenging for players. I do wonder if the league is full of these "genius" offensive coordinators that struggle to dumb down their system to help less experienced QBs succeed. Everyone wants to run an offense like Mahomes is their QB but that just isn't feasible--it would be like every NBA offense being run like Steph Curry is on your team.

I think back to how Peyton Manning was widely considered to be the PERFECT QB in terms of his skill set, but would someone as slow and immobile as Peyton be considered for the #1 pick today? The league has really shifted into requiring a dynamic, athletic performer at QB that can pick up yards with his legs and throw on the run.

A friend of mine who is a major draftnik told me that Zach Wilson being so bad has largely shifted the way teams approach QB prospects--they are shifting back to players who thrive in-structure as opposed to QBs that thrive out-of-structure, but we will see if that remains true.

I often wonder whether so-called genius-level offense is required because so many more great athletes are playing defense than even 15 years ago. I have little doubt that a system could be simplified to the point that a larger group of QBs could master it. But would that offense be successful today?

 

[Kliq]

I also think we had a long period where offenses were way ahead of defenses due to not only rule changes, but schematic advancements. Defensives have evolved to become faster and more successful against the pass, which is bringing passing offense down closer to reality as opposed to up in the clouds. Maybe we are only supposed to have 20 good QBs--that is how football was played for decades until Bill Polian got mad about losing to the Pats.

Contributing to that is that offenses are now all entirely designed around the QB, so if your QB is not good, it stands out more because your offense now sucks. Very few offenses are systematically designed around having a poor QB, that doesn't get you hired in the NFL. So teams with poor QBs stand out as more hapless than ever before because the QB is now like, 75% of the total offense when that wasn't the case in previous eras.

 

[BaseballJones]

After watching that Miami-Tennessee game last, it occurred to me that most backup QBs are terrible. Rudolph and Huntley each threw for under 100 yards and their coaches seemed to be afraid to let them throw. Miami has great skill players and their offense has been pitiful with Huntley and Thompson, I am starting to to believe Tua is good. Besides old guys who have been good QBs before like Flacco, and Dalton most back QBs are awful. It's weird to watch NFL games and think can this guy complete a pass? It's the pinnacle of the sport. Everyone seems surprised that Malik Willis is decent. I know all talent is a pyramid but there seems to be a huge difference between even a mediocre starter like David Carr and the Kyle Trasks of the league. I would think with the increased passing in college football, we would be seeing better QBs. The proliferation in passing has certainly generated more wide receivers. What gives?

It's why people like Andy Dalton stick around. He's not good enough to be a starter, but he's ALMOST good enough to be a low-end starter, which means he's an outstanding backup - someone who could actually come into a game and run your whole offense and maybe even have some pretty darned good games in the process. Not a guy you go deep into the playoffs with, but a guy who could at least make your team look like a legit functioning NFL offense.

It's also why Jacoby is perfectly suited to be a backup. Not a starter.

 

[BaseballJones]

This is I think exactly it. That and offensive systems are so complicated that it makes the processing of things so much more challenging for players. I do wonder if the league is full of these "genius" offensive coordinators that struggle to dumb down their system to help less experienced QBs succeed. Everyone wants to run an offense like Mahomes is their QB but that just isn't feasible--it would be like every NBA offense being run like Steph Curry is on your team.

I think back to how Peyton Manning was widely considered to be the PERFECT QB in terms of his skill set, but would someone as slow and immobile as Peyton be considered for the #1 pick today? The league has really shifted into requiring a dynamic, athletic performer at QB that can pick up yards with his legs and throw on the run.

A friend of mine who is a major draftnik told me that Zach Wilson being so bad has largely shifted the way teams approach QB prospects--they are shifting back to players who thrive in-structure as opposed to QBs that thrive out-of-structure, but we will see if that remains true.

If Peyton could throw for 300+ yards a game in today's NFL, then yeah, he'd probably still be a #1 pick. You don't need the legs if you can sling it like he can, making every single throw imaginable (which he certainly could do).

 

[NomarsFool]

The NFL could really benefit from a quality minor league system like the other sports, but that really isn’t possible.

Isn't what what college football is? Outside of baseball and hockey (I think, but I'm not a hockey fan). I don't think any sports do it well. I think the other issue is that football players have very short shelf lives. Someone spending 2-3 years in a minor league football would be injured and done in short order (and after making short money).

 

[Ralphwiggum]

The problem with college football as a minor league is that the teams aren’t affiliated with the pro teams so they aren’t really interested in developing players with a view towards being successful in the system run by a pro team. College football teams are trying to win games, get in bowl games, generate enthusiasm from boosters and collect a bunch of money from TV and otherwise. The top tier programs can also be showcases for the top prospects who have professional potential which helps them in recruiting, but for the most part college foobtall does not exist to develop players for the pros.

 

[luckiestman]

A lot of it is practice and that olines suck and the overlap and interaction of these factors. Joe Gibbs used to talk about protecting the quarterback like it was the most important thing for an offense to do. He won the Super Bowl with Joe Theisman, Mark Rypien and Doug Williams.

 

[Phil Plantier]

Also, once quarterbacks age out (except Flacco), they don't want/need to be a backup. Tannehill (who would be an outstanding backup) comes to mind. Leinart in a previous generation.

 

[Saints Rest]

The problem with college football as a minor league is that the teams aren’t affiliated with the pro teams so they aren’t really interested in developing players with a view towards being successful in the system run by a pro team. College football teams are trying to win games, get in bowl games, generate enthusiasm from boosters and collect a bunch of money from TV and otherwise. The top tier programs can also be showcases for the top prospects who have professional potential which helps them in recruiting, but for the most part college foobtall does not exist to develop players for the pros.

Another issue is that part of what makes baseball's minor league system work is that players can move up and DOWN in the system.

Could there be a day in the not-too-distant future where CFB could become some hybrid of baseball minor leagues and the English soccer pyramid? Break up CFB into 3-5 tiers of 32 teams per tier with each team being attached to an NFL team. Allow for movement up and down of teams and players. Maybe some years an NFL club might not have a team in the top tier (due to relegation) while others might have two.

It would take a drastic overhaul of how the money is distributed up and down the line. And of course that is what would stop such a thing from ever happening.