Avery Bradley traded for Marcus Morris

luckiestman

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While that's true, to an extent, they don't really have a big, other than Zizic, as Horford and don't call me Mercury aren't true interior players. I'd be more optimistic if we had a Gobert/Whiteside/Turner
So would almost every team in the league. It's better to judge real life outcomes against real life possibilities. I'd like a time machine to bring back Wilt Chamberlain and sign him for the vet minimum, that's not reality either.
 

Dahabenzapple2

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Unless you believe RPM and other advanced metrics that Morris is actually the better player. I don't think it's obvious that the team is worse for trading away Bradley.
Agreed - I'm no expert but Bradley is not a play-maker, does not get to the line and is 6-2. As many have mentioned he's a fine defensive off guard if he's guarding someone 6-2 or 6-3.
 

slamminsammya

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Avery is one of the more remarkable transformations I have ever seen. His first year he could barely hold the ball without turning it over, and everyone in this damned board was shitting all over my friend (who no longer posts here) for calling for patience. His game really advanced a lot in every dimension. Sad to see him go.
 

Devizier

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Yes, his value is similar to that of Jae Crowder and yes he is a much better player than Amir. Neither have great trade value and neither cost a ton for the next couple of seasons. Morris is not an awful rebounder unless you simply look at raw numbers without taking into account the affect that Drummond had on them. It isn't as though Morris needed to be overly concerned with rebounding so he will now need to make the necessary adjustments.
Morris was not much of a rebounder in Phoenix, either. His ~10% rebound percentage there corresponded to an exactly average rebounder (assuming rebounds are evenly distributed among teams), and that was playing next to guys like Plumlee, Len, and his twin brother. He's just not a plus rebounder and that's okay, because that's not his role in Boston.

Maybe when the Cavaliers melt down after Lebron bolts next season, the Celtics will be positioned to grab Kevin Love for scraps (kidding!).
 

moondog80

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Ainge is playing the long game. The skilled bigs come next summer.
New Orleans has an excellent chance of missing the playoffs and Cousins can be a free agent. I know, "why would they trade Davis", but...history says he will be traded, eventually.
 

DJnVa

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Unless you believe RPM and other advanced metrics that Morris is actually the better player. I don't think it's obvious that the team is worse for trading away Bradley.
Sure. But the dude didn't even really mention Morris.

His point was essentially "A + B > A"
 

slamminsammya

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Yes, his value is similar to that of Jae Crowder and yes he is a much better player than Amir. Neither have great trade value and neither cost a ton for the next couple of seasons. Morris is not an awful rebounder unless you simply look at raw numbers without taking into account the affect that Drummond had on them. It isn't as though Morris needed to be overly concerned with rebounding so he will now need to make the necessary adjustments.
Again we run into the massive discrepancy in how people see Jae Crodwer. Maybe "similar value" means they are both not untradeable, but I don't see how they are anywhere near eachother given:

- Crowder is one year younger
- Is paid the same but has one more year on his contract
- Gets more steals, assists, rebounds, shoots 7% better on 3s, and 7% better on 2s, gets to the line more, and plays better defense than Morris and is generally a better player in pretty much every respect by a decent margin
 

joe dokes

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Morris was not much of a rebounder in Phoenix, either. His ~10% rebound percentage there corresponded to an exactly average rebounder (assuming rebounds are evenly distributed among teams), and that was playing next to guys like Plumlee, Len, and his twin brother. He's just not a plus rebounder and that's okay, because that's not his role in Boston.
"Average" is probably an improvement at the position.
 

Minneapolis Millers

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Man, I love AB, but the only thing he does better than Hayward is guard PGs. In every other way Hayward is equal to AB or significantly better, including the ability to stay healthy. And we still have Smart and Rozier to guard bigger-than-IT-little guys. That Ainge also got 2 cheap years of a decent, good-roster-fitting Morris makes that article sorta stupid.
 

Auger34

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Again we run into the massive discrepancy in how people see Jae Crodwer. Maybe "similar value" means they are both not untradeable, but I don't see how they are anywhere near eachother given:

- Crowder is one year younger
- Is paid the same but has one more year on his contract
- Gets more steals, assists, rebounds, shoots 7% better on 3s, and 7% better on 2s, gets to the line more, and plays better defense than Morris and is generally a better player in pretty much every respect by a decent margin
HRB has an odd, really stilted opinion about Crowder where he has a much lower opinion of him than everyone else and seems to think Jae has relatively no value around the league.
It sort of follows with his opinion on Boston as a Free Agent destination or Stevens importance in recruiting Gordon Hayward to Boston
 

Light-Tower-Power

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Averys' skills are shooting and guarding small 2 guards and after that there isn't a ton there. I am a huge AB fan and I love the progression that he has shown since he got drafted but I'm not convinced that he'll end up being a huge loss.
 

Imbricus

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I love this trade so much on so many levels that I don't know where to begin.

1. We greatly improve roster balance with Jaylen and Rozier ready to take on greater roles.

2. We greatly improve the 4 position with a player whose style fits our teams philosophy.

3. We add a year of cost-controlled production.

4. We receive value in return for an impending FA.

5. We eliminate playing the season with uncertainty as to the direction regarding impending FA.

6. We protect against forcing minutes to Tatum in non-advantageous matchups much like we have done with Olynyk and Jaylen.

7. We clear the necessary cap space to sign Hayward.

8. We replace a player who is available 70% of the time with one who has missed 6 games in the past 4 seasons.

Freakin Danny!!!
This pretty much nails it. I would only add the observation that Danny has been in Utah, watching Zizic in summer league, and now knows there's a chance that he may not be able to contribute as much as once hoped for. Still too early to tell, but this is exactly the kind of trade you make to cover your bases and fill a hole. Hell, I would've thrown in two second-round picks.
 

nighthob

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Yeah, Morris is a lunch pail kind of player. A lot like Crowder in that he's hard-working and pretty average. But he's much longer and able to offer more resistance at the PF spot. He's also on a bargain basement deal that makes life easy on the Celtics during the Incubation Era when they're going to be carrying some top heavy payroll.
 

luckiestman

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A lineup of Rozier/Smart/Crowder/Morris/{insert Big} will throw a physical beating on some opposing teams
 

slamminsammya

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IDK - Add Speights and you'd have 4 guys that can hit the trey plus Smart (being guarded by a SG) pounding the boards.

Damn I'm getting pumped up for the Fall
The problem with that lineup isn't so much that no one can shoot as it is that there is no one who is creating the offense. Smart is a great passer but I think he thrives more when he isn't shoulding responsibility for makin it all happen. Even with Speights you need someone who can break down a defense.
 

EddieYost

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I hate the 2nd unit concept. Why not stagger the substitutions so you always have at least a couple starters in?
 

slamminsammya

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Yea, they really should never have an all 2nd unit out there. Which is why getting Hayward is so huge! Two players who are capable of creating open ups substitution possibliities so much more.
 

Eddie Jurak

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I hate the 2nd unit concept. Why not stagger the substitutions so you always have at least a couple starters in?
I think that in the playoffs, IT should be playing all of the bench minutes. Not that he shouldn't start, but he should be the first starter subbed and then right back in when the other coach goes to his bench. (This is how the Celtics set up their game 7 omeback against the Wiz).

Also, one of IT and Hayward should always be on the floor.
 

Kid T

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I hate the 2nd unit concept. Why not stagger the substitutions so you always have at least a couple starters in?
The primary benefit I can think of is if they practice as a unit and have developed some on-court chemistry. However I agree with you, benches are rarely talented enough to run more than 8 deep.
 

luckiestman

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I hate the 2nd unit concept. Why not stagger the substitutions so you always have at least a couple starters in?

I wasn't arguing for the Cs to play units. I just want to see that particular group of players on the floor together make the grown men on the other team cry at least once this year.
 

bigq

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Avery is one of the more remarkable transformations I have ever seen. His first year he could barely hold the ball without turning it over, and everyone in this damned board was shitting all over my friend (who no longer posts here) for calling for patience. His game really advanced a lot in every dimension. Sad to see him go.
I will miss seeing him in Celtic's green as well. I don't have a clear recollection of his early turnover problems but I do clearly remember him forcing Ray Allen to a bench role largely because Avery was such a tenacious defender. He and Rondo both have such a knack for steals and driving opposing guards nuts with their quickness. I have lots of fond memories but I think it was time to move on.
 

amarshal2

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Remember when we all freaked out at Averys first contract extension from Danny and what an overpay it was?

Good times. I'll miss you AB.
 

reggiecleveland

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I really like Morris. He plays with a chipon his shoulder, and is very good offensive player. He does not help the rebounding woes, but he is a big improvement on Amir. KO maybe guard centers well enough to provider versatility but MM has value on O over Kelly because even if he isn't making 3s.

At the worst they held serve with a trade they had to make.

If one of the draft and stash guys turns into a player, then lookout.
 

Dollar

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slamminsammya

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This quote is my favorite re the Bradley extension: "And yet again an internet message board knows much better than a reasonably successful front office."
 

Mueller's Twin Grannies

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So... how did AB's friend know he hadn't been informed of the trade yet unless said friend asked him if he'd heard anything about being traded and then didn't tell him just so the friend could be a news source?
 
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mauf

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In a pickup game, Olynyk gets picked before Morris, but assuming Wyc isn't completely indifferent to paying luxury tax, I'd rather have Morris for 2/11 than KO for 4/48.

So we added Hayward and swapped KO for Morris, and all it cost us was a year of AB. The people who are complaining about this just don't understand the business side of the game.

I do wonder if some of the hysteria is really continuing angst about the Fultz/Tatum deal. If you don't like that deal (and I'm one of the ones who doesn't), it casts a pall over the entire offseason. But that deal has no significant impact on Danny's other moves, so you ought to be able to judge those other moves separately on their merits.
 

JakeRae

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In a pickup game, Olynyk gets picked before Morris, but assuming Wyc isn't completely indifferent to paying luxury tax, I'd rather have Morris for 2/11 than KO for 4/48.

So we added Hayward and swapped KO for Morris, and all it cost us was a year of AB. The people who are complaining about this just don't understand the business side of the game.

I do wonder if some of the hysteria is really continuing angst about the Fultz/Tatum deal. If you don't like that deal (and I'm one of the ones who doesn't), it casts a pall over the entire offseason. But that deal has no significant impact on Danny's other moves, so you ought to be able to judge those other moves separately on their merits.
I'd take KO on his contract over Morris on his. Olynyk is a substantially better player who still has potential for improvement. But, I'm firmly in the Olynyk is a good (as in, clearly above average) NBA player camp. Of course, that was never an option. I'd much rather have Hayward on his contract than KO on his and I think I prefer Morris to Bradley given contract and roster fit.

But, that roster fit is because we had to jettison Olynyk and Amir (he was much better than some acknowledge during the regular season but obviously was a shell of himself in the playoffs and might be approaching the end). Morris is worse than either of them were last year and it's not close. On the other hand, Morris does have more defensive versatility as he is more capable of switching onto true wings than either was. This may carry some marginal roster benefit, especially since the Celtics play a switch heavy defensive scheme.

I'm torn overall on Bradley. He has serious flaws in that he's not much of a passer and cannot create his own shot. He's also short. But, he's a good shooter, turned himself into a good rebounder last year, and plays elite man defense in flashes. At the end of the day, I'm not convinced he's actually a great defender though, largely because the modern game demands the ability to switch and he is too short to effectively defend a lot of the guys he ends up guarding. I also think his elite level defense demands so much energy that he cannot sustain it throughout games, even in the playoffs. So, he's not really an elite defender, despite his reputation and the flashes. I think Bradley was the most overrated player on last year's team and the guy the team will be least impacted by losing.
 

benhogan

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wade boggs chicken dinner

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All roads go through Lebron and the Cavs.

Kelly wasn't effective versus them in playoffs or the regular season.

Amir was beyond useless versus them in playoffs and before you say he was injured, go take a look at his regular season numbers versus the Cavs. Dreadful also.

Meanwhile, Morris is a Lebron stopper.

https://www.boston.com/sports/boston-celtics/2017/07/08/heres-one-reason-celtics-fans-should-be-excited-about-marcus-morris
well that's pretty interesting. One thing for sure - having Hayward and Morris and Crowder gives the Cs some options for guarding LBJ but they still have to figure out what to do when the Cavs run the 1-3 PnR.

And after that, the question is how do they defend Durant?
 

InstaFace

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Will the impending legal issues have any sort of impact? I read on the Wikipedia that he and his brother roughed up some dude who "may have sent their mom inappropriate text."

Court date is Aug 21 this year.
Don't worry, that court date is getting eclipsed.