Avery Bradley traded for Marcus Morris

wade boggs chicken dinner

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I hope not. A guy who can't shoot from anywhere on the floor is not a good option to lead the second unit. He's a much better option to start, where we can hide his shooting in the corner (where he's at least average), and he can be free to wreak havoc defensively.

Celtics will run the ball through Horford a lot when IT sits, I would guess, with Rozier running some pick and roll. Rozier isn't a much better shooter than Marcus, of course, but he's at least shown the ability to get to the rim.
With respect to Smart's shooting, you must have missed the below. :)

Smart has been leading the second unit for a while now. As of right now, he's probably the best passer on the team other than GH, IT4, and Horford, all of whom are going to be starting.

 

PedroKsBambino

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If this goes through, it validates two things...

1. We, as thoughtful fans who really know the team, did much better predicting who would go than the national experts
2. Ainge always understood he had quality exit options if he needed salary, and was proven correct

Really like the move---I think Avery for a vet 4 was always the right model and it is good they got it to work. Also like adding in a pick to be sure they got what they needed, the value of a second to Celts is really low right now.
 

Fishy1

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With respect to Smart's shooting, you must have missed the below. :)

Smart has been leading the second unit for a while now. As of right now, he's probably the best passer on the team other than GH, IT4, and Horford, all of whom are going to be starting.

I had not seen that - you've got me at half-chub now. Unfair!

Anyways, I thinkSmart leading the second unit was more out of necessity than anything else. Hopefully Rozier will be ready to step in. But if Smart's shooting improves, I think it's viable. Smart was one of the worst pick and roll ball handlers per PPP last year, though, so, I'll keep my fingers crossed for him starting.
 

luckiestman

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If this goes through, it validates two things...

1. We, as thoughtful fans who really know the team, did much better predicting who would go than the national experts
2. Ainge always understood he had quality exit options if he needed salary, and was proven correct

Really like the move---I think Avery for a vet 4 was always the right model and it is good they got it to work. Also like adding in a pick to be sure they got what they needed, the value of a second to Celts is really low right now.

I've been making jokes that I'm available for GM jobs but it's getting to the point that I'm almost ready to start believing my own bullshit.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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What is the status of Andrew Bogut and what would it take to sign him??
His status is old and not just injury prone but destined to never be healthy, at all, again.

As for what it would take to sign him, the answer is a time machine from my perspective. Otherwise please pass.
 

HomeRunBaker

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Agreed that he needs to earn his minutes, but Jaylen averaged 17 minutes a game as a rookie last season. Assuming 15 or so from Tatum, we aren't talking about Rozier, Theiss, Zizic, Yabusele, fighting for the remaining 30 minutes, more like the remaining 15.

Not that it's a problem from my perspective (as far as I'm concerned, depth plus competition for the young guys is a good thing). My point is only that there aren't as many minutes to go around as moops made it seem.
Rozier also avg 17. One reason for this was due to the often times unavailability of one Avery Bradley who only played in 55 games last season.

There are 240 minutes of play each game. When you remove the 32 mpg that our average starter played (using Smart in place of Amir as the former played starters minutes) that leaves 80 minutes of play to be split up between 6 players assuming an 11-man rotation. Tatum can play a similar role as Brown and Rozier last year, each of whom avg 17 mpg, without being overexposed in matchups. When you throw in a couple extra avg min of garbage time you're talking 13-14 high leverage minutes per night for the 6 bench rotation guys which Tatum will be in most nights.

We have a ton of regular season bench minutes available to be distributed.
 
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PedroKsBambino

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His status is old and not just injury prone but destined to never be healthy, at all, again.

As for what it would take to sign him, the answer is a time machine from my perspective. Otherwise please pass.
I think he's a guy who this team doesn't have roster space for and who (if he is still out there, and in shape) you might sign in February or March for whatever you can get in the playoffs for a specific role. But if we're carrying him all year it is just not worth the likely small return.
 

EL Jeffe

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At this point in their respective careers, Morris a better player than Amir Johnson - and at a very good price point - so it's a good trade in that they've upgraded the 4-spot. My only concern is that Morris is a pretty crappy rebounder, so a Horford/Morris combo is still going to get beat on the glass. All in all though, that's really good value considering Boston was dealing from a position of weakness. Adding Hayward/Morris/Tatum and losing Amir/Olynyk/Bradley is a big win overall, particularly in that they were able to keep the treasure chest of picks intact.
 

the moops

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Adding Hayward/Morris/Tatum and losing Amir/Olynyk/Bradley is a big win overall, particularly in that they were able to keep the treasure chest of picks intact.
It should be more like adding Hayward/Morris/Tatum/Yabusele/LAL18 and losing Amir/Olynyk/Bradley/Fultz
 

Light-Tower-Power

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At this point in their respective careers, Morris a better player than Amir Johnson - and at a very good price point - so it's a good trade in that they've upgraded the 4-spot. My only concern is that Morris is a pretty crappy rebounder, so a Horford/Morris combo is still going to get beat on the glass. All in all though, that's really good value considering Boston was dealing from a position of weakness. Adding Hayward/Morris/Tatum and losing Amir/Olynyk/Bradley is a big win overall, particularly in that they were able to keep the treasure chest of picks intact.
His rebounding numbers are dreadful...is there any reason for that? The way he was used in Detroit/playing next to Drummond? With his style of play and body type I wouldn't expect him to be such a bad rebounder.
 

Big John

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I wonder if Morris' bad rebounding stats were due in part to playing next to Drummond.
 

cheech13

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I'm generally surprised that the board has such high praise for this trade. Don't get me wrong, I think it's a perfectly fine deal, both in a vacuum and under the specific constraints Boston was working under, but it's not a first round pick or good player on a rookie deal, which it seemed like many were hoping for. Morris is an average to good player and can fill a role, but he's not a starting 4 on a team with title aspirations. I wouldn't be surprised if he's packaged in another deal by next year's trade deadline.
 

DJnVa

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This is a hell of a trade. Morris is a good player. Wonder if a separate deal for Crowder is coming at some point.
I'm sorry. I was assured over and over there was no leverage and we'd hate any deal made. :)

More seriously, good stuff.
 

moondog80

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I'm generally surprised that the board has such high praise for this trade. Don't get me wrong, I think it's a perfectly fine deal, both in a vacuum and under the specific constraints Boston was working under, but it's not a first round pick or good player on a rookie deal, which it seemed like many were hoping for. Morris is an average to good player and can fill a role, but he's not a starting 4 on a team with title aspirations. I wouldn't be surprised if he's packaged in another deal by next year's trade deadline.
The general expectation here was that we'd get a token 2nd round pick in return, so that probably frames the reaction. The opposite of what happened when we thought we's be getting the Kings pick AND the Lakers pick in the Fultz swap.
 

Jed Zeppelin

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I'm generally surprised that the board has such high praise for this trade. Don't get me wrong, I think it's a perfectly fine deal, both in a vacuum and under the specific constraints Boston was working under, but it's not a first round pick or good player on a rookie deal, which it seemed like many were hoping for. Morris is an average to good player and can fill a role, but he's not a starting 4 on a team with title aspirations. I wouldn't be surprised if he's packaged in another deal by next year's trade deadline.
Anyone who thought they were getting either of those things was dreaming.
 

cheech13

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The general expectation here was that we'd get a token 2nd round pick in return, so that probably frames the reaction. The opposite of what happened when we thought we's be getting the Kings pick AND the Lakers pick in the Fultz swap.
Marcus Morris has been traded twice in his career for a second round pick, including once on his below market deal. Unless you think he's become significantly more valuable in the last two years, its not clear that his value isn't similar to a second rounder.
 

BigSoxFan

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I'm generally surprised that the board has such high praise for this trade. Don't get me wrong, I think it's a perfectly fine deal, both in a vacuum and under the specific constraints Boston was working under, but it's not a first round pick or good player on a rookie deal, which it seemed like many were hoping for. Morris is an average to good player and can fill a role, but he's not a starting 4 on a team with title aspirations. I wouldn't be surprised if he's packaged in another deal by next year's trade deadline.
Morris is a good player with 2 years of control at a below market salary. A first round pick or young cost controlled player for Bradley was never happening so I see this trade as a very good result, particularly if he improves on his shooting. No idea what else was out there but I think Ainge did quite well here.
 

moondog80

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Marcus Morris has been traded twice in his career for a second round pick, including once on his below market deal. Unless you think he's become significantly more valuable in the last two years, its not clear that his value isn't similar to a second rounder.
Point taken, but would you really rather have Detroit's 2018 2nd rounder than Morris?
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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I think he's a guy who this team doesn't have roster space for and who (if he is still out there, and in shape) you might sign in February or March for whatever you can get in the playoffs for a specific role. But if we're carrying him all year it is just not worth the likely small return.
Maybe but the guy does nothing that the Celtics appear to value. He cannot shoot at all so he offers no spacing, he cannot defend the perimeter and he can be exploited badly on switches. Meanwhile, there are some here still carrying a flame for his rapidly declining ability to protect the rim and rebound - skills that Ainge and Stevens clearly don't value very highly.

However before even discussing what Bogut can do for a team, you need to assess how likely it is that he can even step on a court. Based on the past few years, the odds don't favor the guy being able to even display the skills he still has because he is in a constant state of falling apart.
 

Big John

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Wel, the Morris twins have a history. Marcus and his brother poisoned the Suns' locker room when they were there together. The Suns tried to solve the problem by trading Marcus to Detroit, but then Markieff demanded a trade, saying that they two of them had accepted below market deals in order to stay together. The Suns were fortunate to get 75 cents on the dollar when they subsequently traded Markieff to the Wizards, and you can argue that the Suns got even less than that (Chris Humphries, DeJuan Blair and a pick in the 20's).
 
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joe dokes

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Wel, the Morris twins have a history. Marcus and his brother poisoned the Suns' locker room when they were there together. The Suns tried to solve the problem by trading Marcus to Detroit, but then Markieff demanded a trade, saying that they two of them had accepted below market deals in order to stay together. The Suns were fortunate to get 75 cents on the dollar when they subsequently traded Markieff to the Wizards, and you can argue that the Suns got even less than that (Chris Humphries, DeJuan Blair and a pick in the 20's).
While it may not be a positive reflection on either, playing on a good team has a way of keeping players focused on playing basektball.
 

E5 Yaz

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I'm generally surprised that the board has such high praise for this trade. Don't get me wrong, I think it's a perfectly fine deal, both in a vacuum and under the specific constraints Boston was working under, but it's not a first round pick or good player on a rookie deal, which it seemed like many were hoping for. Morris is an average to good player and can fill a role, but he's not a starting 4 on a team with title aspirations. I wouldn't be surprised if he's packaged in another deal by next year's trade deadline.
I didn't read many (if any) posts expecting that kind of return. Given the leverage situation, this trade works well. I really like Bradley, but he was about to get expensive (see below) and the injury history is troubling as he gets older.

Jeff Goodman ESPN Insider
Celtics also understood would have been nearly impossible to keep Bradley and Isaiah after this season. Bradley likely to get $20-million plus per year. Crowder has favorable contract.
 

RG33

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I also think this is a much better return than expected. Morris is a solid rotational player on a really good contract for 2 years. Bradley was the obvious guy to go, was not going to be re-signed, and has had injury issues (but I still loved him). Based on every other GM in the NBA also knowing all of this, this is about as much as you could have expected. And, Morris fits their style of play.

Bravo Danny, Bravo!
 

HomeRunBaker

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Marcus Morris has been traded twice in his career for a second round pick, including once on his below market deal. Unless you think he's become significantly more valuable in the last two years, its not clear that his value isn't similar to a second rounder.
Yes, his value is similar to that of Jae Crowder and yes he is a much better player than Amir. Neither have great trade value and neither cost a ton for the next couple of seasons. Morris is not an awful rebounder unless you simply look at raw numbers without taking into account the affect that Drummond had on them. It isn't as though Morris needed to be overly concerned with rebounding so he will now need to make the necessary adjustments.
 

Fishy1

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While it may not be a positive reflection on either, playing on a good team has a way of keeping players focused on playing basektball.
Agreed. Marcus Morris is a good player. He'll fit just fine in if he hits ~35% of threes. He was an 8 win player just a couple years ago. Rotationally this patches up the second unit substantially. Amir didn't play a ton of minutes (so we had to see a hodge-podge of Jerebko, Olynyk and co, depending on match-ups), and Morris can give you 30, if Brad is so inclined.

Paying less than $12 mil combined to Morris and Crowder is awesome.
Two tuff guys getting paid very little.
 

slamminsammya

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Don't forget future fan favorite Dannyboy Theis!
Don't think I haven't noticed your continuous mentioning of Theis for about a month now. Love the enthusiasm!

Vis a vis Amir, I personally think he is a better player than Marcus Morris, and also a better fit for the team. But the big problem was always going to be how many minutes he could play.

I am very excited about how the offseason has shaken out. Nevertheless, given the number of minutes that will be going to rookies this season I will not be surprised if they take a step back next year. I don't think <45 wins is out of the question, especially if IT starts the year with health related rust.
 

EL Jeffe

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Yes, his value is similar to that of Jae Crowder and yes he is a much better player than Amir. Neither have great trade value and neither cost a ton for the next couple of seasons. Morris is not an awful rebounder unless you simply look at raw numbers without taking into account the affect that Drummond had on them. It isn't as though Morris needed to be overly concerned with rebounding so he will now need to make the necessary adjustments.
I'd feel better about Morris's rebounding numbers in Detroit if he'd had rebounded better in Houston, Phoenix or Toronto. The fact is, he's never been much of a rebounder. He does enough things well to be an upgrade over Amir and a bargain at 2/$10m, but I don't see a reasonable path to him all of a sudden starting to rebound when that's never been a skill he's shown much aptitude with.
 

Ale Xander

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Not a fan of the deal, but sort of understand why it was made. It seems that Danny and Brad have no use for 2's or post payers, which is fine, but how many 3's do you need? I think we got the better M Morris, but he's just a taller Crowder, a 3 and D stretch. He's not a great rebounder or shot blocker.

Best part of the deal is that we keep Rozier, but this moves also means we're likely to max IT4 and he's no worth it. You also lose your only solid perimeter defender who can shoot. So you have 3 point guards, one who can't shoot, one who can't defend, and a third who has tons of promise but is currently the basketball version of JBJ (streaky).

Although ,even as a fan of Bradley, I won't miss the poor passing and dribbling.

Assuming Zizic doesn't quickly develop, I hope, with the current roster, they go small for starters. (IT, Smart, GH, JB, Al) They need Smart in there for speed and defense. But it can't happen when your first three subs would then be 3's, stretch 4's.

Was really really hoping Crowder would be the one to go, but he makes too little. Now really hoping either Crowder or Morris get moved in small deal, or Tatum in a big one.

Did GH really not want to take a 300k cut?
 

E5 Yaz

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Woj says that both LA teams were in on Bradley. Anything leak as to what they were offering?
 

slamminsammya

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Not a fan of the deal, but sort of understand why it was made. It seems that Danny and Brad have no use for 2's or post payers, which is fine, but how many 3's do you need?
In the 2017 NBA, the answer is always "more". Old school positions haven't existed for over a decade now. Stevens put it concretely a few days ago talking about how Hayward would work in the offense: There are only three positions for Stevens, which are ball-handler, wing, and big man.
 

CreedBratton

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Not a fan of the deal, but sort of understand why it was made. It seems that Danny and Brad have no use for 2's or post payers, which is fine, but how many 3's do you need? I think we got the better M Morris, but he's just a taller Crowder, a 3 and D stretch. He's not a great rebounder or shot blocker.

Best part of the deal is that we keep Rozier, but this moves also means we're likely to max IT4 and he's no worth it. You also lose your only solid perimeter defender who can shoot. So you have 3 point guards, one who can't shoot, one who can't defend, and a third who has tons of promise but is currently the basketball version of JBJ (streaky).

Although ,even as a fan of Bradley, I won't miss the poor passing and dribbling.

Assuming Zizic doesn't quickly develop, I hope, with the current roster, they go small for starters. (IT, Smart, GH, JB, Al) They need Smart in there for speed and defense. But it can't happen when your first three subs would then be 3's, stretch 4's.

Was really really hoping Crowder would be the one to go, but he makes too little. Now really hoping either Crowder or Morris get moved in small deal, or Tatum in a big one.

Did GH really not want to take a 300k cut?
I don't think they are going to have to max IT now. With the cap flattening and how the Point guard market went this year. Lowe even said Celtics feeling good they can get him $25-30 range instead of $30-35
 

amarshal2

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Yes, his value is similar to that of Jae Crowder and yes he is a much better player than Amir. Neither have great trade value and neither cost a ton for the next couple of seasons. Morris is not an awful rebounder unless you simply look at raw numbers without taking into account the affect that Drummond had on them. It isn't as though Morris needed to be overly concerned with rebounding so he will now need to make the necessary adjustments.
I'd feel better about Morris's rebounding numbers in Detroit if he'd had rebounded better in Houston, Phoenix or Toronto. The fact is, he's never been much of a rebounder. He does enough things well to be an upgrade over Amir and a bargain at 2/$10m, but I don't see a reasonable path to him all of a sudden starting to rebound when that's never been a skill he's shown much aptitude with.
And college, where he was below average as well. Drummond has little to do with it. He's a worse rebounder than Jeff Green and I thought Green was the worst rebounder I'd ever seen.
 

slamminsammya

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IT's market will depend hugely on how his health and performance go next year. Its not just Celtics fans who are skeptical that last year was an awesome aberration. Anyone who watches basketball has the same concerns about IT and his style of play.
 

cheech13

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Given the relative tame contracts given to Lowry, Hill and Teague this offseason I don't think IT is getting max money or a four-year deal. SOmething around three years at $25 AAV seems right, no?
 

Swedgin

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Didn't Brown just play significant minutes in a playoff series?
Guess it depends on how you define significant:

In the Chicago series he averaged 5 minutes a game.

In the Washington series he got up to 14 minutes, but racked up most of those minutes in the garbage time portion of the (many) one sided games. For example, he played 18:41 in Game 3, which the Celtics lost by 27. He played 4 minutes in the first half. He then got back in with 2:25 left in the third with the Celtics down 28 and played the entire 4th quarter in which they never got closer than 19. Similar story in Game 5 when he got 26 minutes of run. He played the entire 4th quarter which began with Boston up 15 and the lead just got wider. However, he did get 11 minutes in Game 6 the closest game in the series, which was more than Rozier.

Likewise against Cleveland he played around 20 in each of the blowouts, except game 5 when he only got 8 minutes for some reason. He did play 12:50 in the Marcus Smart game, but most of that was in first half after Cleveland jumped out to a big league. In the 4th quarter he was pulled at 9:43 and did not see the floor again except for one possession when he was a defensive sub.
 

OurF'ingCity

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Best part of the deal is that we keep Rozier, but this moves also means we're likely to max IT4 and he's no worth it.
In a vaccum I agree but given the Celtics' cap situation next year they don't have much of a choice to re-sign him. Plus as others have pointed out there's no guarantee he'll get a max offer somewhere else. My guess is the Celtics hope his market is limited and try to sign him for something less than max but hold their nose and offer him a max if another team does (barring a major dropoff due to injury, etc.).
 

soxfan121

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Adding Hayward/Morris/Tatum and losing Amir/Olynyk/Bradley is a big win overall, particularly in that they were able to keep the treasure chest of picks intact.
This really can't be said enough. When all is said and done, the Celtics and Ainge have built the 2nd best team on paper in the EC via a brilliant trade to get a (flawed) franchise player, have secured two free agents in back-to-back years to form a little 3 of IT/Horford/Heyward as a current core, have found and retained useful role players on good (tradeable) contracts in Crowder/Morris/Smart, have drafted two high-upside teenagers in Brown and Tatum - and have two or three more high lottery picks coming (BRK, LAL or SAC, MEM) - have a bunch of other useful assets (their own picks, LAC pick, a bevy of 2s), are importing three Euro players with potential in Zizic/Yabusele/Theis, and have locked down one of the top coaching minds in the game.

Just order the statue now. Who else among his GM/President peers has a comparable track record in this era? Buford, Myers...?
 

Kenny F'ing Powers

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I have no idea where my post was, but I mentioned a few months ago that trading Avery was the only answer here. I also don't see why we would have to trade Crowder. With Avery gone, plenty of minutes just opened up at the SG spot for JB to fill. That leaves plenty of minutes to rotate JB/GH/JC at the 2-4 slots. If starting matters to Jae, ke can start at SF for the first few minutes while GH starts at SG. Whatever makes him happy.

Paying less than $12 mil combined to Morris and Crowder is awesome.
And necessary for a team with multiple max contracts to compete.
 

Ale Xander

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In the 2017 NBA, the answer is always "more". Old school positions haven't existed for over a decade now. Stevens put it concretely a few days ago talking about how Hayward would work in the offense: There are only three positions for Stevens, which are ball-handler, wing, and big man.
While that's true, to an extent, they don't really have a big, other than Zizic, as Horford and don't call me Mercury aren't true interior players. I'd be more optimistic if we had a Gobert/Whiteside
 

DJnVa

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Hot takes: https://sports.yahoo.com/avery-bradley-became-salary-cap-casualty-thats-real-bummer-175143332.html

The Celtics are better for adding Gordon Hayward, and they’re worse for subtracting Avery Bradley. What the sum or difference of those moves turns out to be this season and beyond is yet another in a long line of highstakes gambles by president of basketball operations Danny Ainge this summer.

Boston’s trade of Bradley and a 2019 second-round pick for Detroit Pistons forward Marcus Morris stings. The difference in Bradley’s $8.8 million salary and Morris’ $5 million price tag this season was enough to fit Hayward’s max contract under the cap, and while Hayward is better than Bradley, the net gain of one without the other makes the Celtics far less formidable than they would be with both.
Obvious point is obvious.