Avery Bradley re-signs for 4 years/$32 million
- Thread starter RedOctober3829
- Start date
I have no idea what they are doing in the backcourt. Have to imagine Danny has a Rondo deal lined up...
I like Bradley as a building block (he's still just 23), but that's a lot of coin for someone who can't stay on the court.
I like Bradley as a building block (he's still just 23), but that's a lot of coin for someone who can't stay on the court.
Avery Bradley at 4/$32 or no Avery Bradley at all?
Is that even the question actually? What other teams were close to offering this type of money?
Is that even the question actually? What other teams were close to offering this type of money?
WTF. No way that's true.
I'd rather give Rondo a max.
please be sign and trade, please be sign and trade, please be sign and trade
I'd rather give Rondo a max.
please be sign and trade, please be sign and trade, please be sign and trade
he already lost it with Olynyk. Only thing worse than a 6-2 guard who can't score is a lottery 7 footer who can't block or rebound.RedOctober3829 said:
By itself, this doesn't make the most sense. I don't think it dramatically overvalues Bradley, but it does invite questions about what the Celtics are doing. I'm sincerely hoping there's another shoe that is waiting to drop.
CBA clarification: Since the contract doesn't exceed 5 years (or otherwise run afoul of standard atomic S&T restrictions), that means they can still trade him this summer, right?
CBA clarification: Since the contract doesn't exceed 5 years (or otherwise run afoul of standard atomic S&T restrictions), that means they can still trade him this summer, right?
RedOctober3829 said:
While $8M a year may not be an overpay (after all Meeks got $6.5M), hard to see how tying Bradley up for 4 years fits into the rebuilding process.
Ainge must really believe that Bradley has put his ankle injuries behind him and will continue to keep getting better. Wow.
Dan to Theo to Ben said:
Not in today's NBA. Channing Frye says "hi."
Definitely not an overpay for a young player who has taken leaps each season. The salary slot needed to be filled by someone.....once the Isaiah deal died it made sense to be Avery.
This also indicates there is not a suitor out there for Rondo. The longer this goes on the less chance at receiving anything of value for this player. Him sticking around for a lame duck season when everyone knows he's not returning would be a cancer for this team that's dying to move forward from The Big Three years.
This also indicates there is not a suitor out there for Rondo. The longer this goes on the less chance at receiving anything of value for this player. Him sticking around for a lame duck season when everyone knows he's not returning would be a cancer for this team that's dying to move forward from The Big Three years.
Definitely not an overpay for a young player who has taken leaps each season. The salary slot needed to be filled by someone.....once the Isaiah deal died it made sense to be Avery.
This also indicates there is not a suitor out there for Rondo. The longer this goes on the less chance at receiving anything of value for this player. Him sticking around for a lame duck season when everyone knows he's not returning would be a cancer for this team that's dying to move forward from The Big Three years.
This also indicates there is not a suitor out there for Rondo. The longer this goes on the less chance at receiving anything of value for this player. Him sticking around for a lame duck season when everyone knows he's not returning would be a cancer for this team that's dying to move forward from The Big Three years.
knucklecup said:
Philly, but that's about it.
Sadly, it probably isn't. Considering his age and the dearth of competent 2 guards he's probably worth at least 7 a year.FelixMantilla said:
Edit- and I just saw Jodie Meeks got $6.7M a year. This offseason is going to be insane with the amount of money getting splashed. If Meeks is getting almost 7M Bradley is worth at least 8.
Well hell I'm hoping he goes full Artest and literally becomes the most interesting NBA player in the world. If we're going to suck we might as well be fun as hell to watch. Go Danny go!
Here's hoping Rondo is shipped off for something more than some expiring contracts and a ticket to tankville in a few months.
Here's hoping Rondo is shipped off for something more than some expiring contracts and a ticket to tankville in a few months.
Listen, dislike the contract all you want (and given his injury history, there is plenty to dislike) but to claim this is a player "who can't score at all" just completely ignores the history and his past production. This past year, he scored 14.9 points a game with 43.8 FG% / 39.5 3 PT FG % / 80.4 FT % percentages. 17.3 points per 36 minutes. Sure, one season is a small sample size, and it was a very bad team, but that is not someone who can't score at all. Thabo Sefolosha - who has never scored more than 11 pts/36 minutes in a ten year career - that is a SG who can't score at all.RedOctober3829 said:
Furthermore, as Zach Lowe tweeted:
Zach Lowe @ZachLowe_NBAFollow
Teams are paranoid about the glut of cap space around the league, and fearful of waiting for other teams to strike out on bigger FAs.
9:54 AM - 2 Jul 2014
As a result, I imagine that the Celtics struck now at this number to make sure that he didn't get a 9.5 M per year offer from someone with a glut of cap space (of which there are many teams) that struck out on bigger fish that we would either have to match or lose Avery for nothing.
Clearly, we all would have rather had Bradley at 4 yrs/24 M, but he rejected that deal months ago. As a point of comparison: Jodie Meeks just got 6.5 M per, Redick makes 7 per, Mayo makes 8 per, Kevin Martin makes 8 per, Eric Gordon makes 15 per, etc, etc. By 2016, the cap will be significantly higher than it is now, and Bradley will take up a smaller percentage than he does now. And whatever percentage he takes up now doesn't mean much when we still have Wallace and Green and to a lesser extent Bass and Anthony on the books at their current numbers.
Avery Bradley is undersized for a 2 guard. Even assuming there's a dearth of competent 2s (which I think is largely overstated - it's just that the position has changed), it's really unclear that Bradley is really of value at the 2...Cellar-Door said:
Oof.
That FG% is brutal. Thabo's never scored more than 11 points per 36 cause he doesn't take as many garbage shots as Bradley does (which is obviously a function of teammates, yes). Bradley's not a scorer. He's a fine, maybe good three point shooter. He scored 14.9 per game by taking a ton of bad shots however.TheDeuce222 said:
I'd rather have the next 4 years of Thabo Sefalosha than Avery Bradley to be honest.
Is this really an overpay? Bradley and smart is a nice backcourt, Bradley will defend the pg. is smart can defend as advertised this will be the 85-86 Bears of back courts
Just a function of a belief that the value of a 2 guard who can't defend his own position is pretty pointless. Thabo's a role player only obviously, but he fills that role well. I'm not sure what the point of Avery Bradley is however without a real offensive breakout or something.MillarTime said:
I agree the fg percentage isn't good but the way Bradley looked shooting the ball ie his confidence and willingness to shoot last year was better than prior years. Without Bradley on the court this team could be brutal to watch.bowiac said:
He also looked really bad at pg and had bad games when asked to play that role
Well, they get him for what should be his prime years and the contract is unlikely to become a complete albatross. Obviously, it would look better if he had the same skill set but was 4 or 5 inches taller.
The confidence and willingness to take bad shots isn't something we should be paying $8M/year for. I don't think it detracts from his value too much, as someone needs to take shots at the end of the shot clock, but it's not like a plus.luckiestman said:
bowiac said:
Understand your point, but think you're really discounting expected future development for a 23 y/o who has improved each year.
Is Bradley better now than as a 21 year old? He looks like the same player to me.MillarTime said:
To be clear, I don't think he's an albatross or some kind of rebuild killer. The Celtics are a few years away and by the time they're hoping to contend, he's an expiring contract of a manageable size.
I'd rather have spent this money on someone like Isaiah Thomas or made a bigger offer on Chandler Parsons, but that's the only real downside. It's the opportunity cost.
I'd rather have spent this money on someone like Isaiah Thomas or made a bigger offer on Chandler Parsons, but that's the only real downside. It's the opportunity cost.
It seems like a lot of money for a relatively replaceable part. Maybe the team thinks last season's minor "regression" was more due to his shoulder surgeries and he's capable of making a leap.
One thing I've always felt is that having guys at different salary slots isn't the worst thing in the world if you expect to be active in the trade market. I'm not sure it's as important as it used to be, but Bradley should be pretty tradeable if necessary.
One thing I've always felt is that having guys at different salary slots isn't the worst thing in the world if you expect to be active in the trade market. I'm not sure it's as important as it used to be, but Bradley should be pretty tradeable if necessary.
And yet again an internet message board knows much better than a reasonably successful front office. I don't love Bradley, particularly his inability to stay on the court, but I also don't pretend to be able to peg the value/worth of specific players with any accuracy. Lowe's piece is important and relevant. There is a ton of money out there that teams will spend on someone. Ainge presumably thinks Bradley is, or could be, a lot better than Chris Johnson or Terrence Williams.
He's not the same player at all. At 21 he was a defensive hellion. After his injuries, he has toned it down so much that he is quite ordinary on defense. Meanwhile, on the offensive end he has improved from abysmal to mediocre. $8MM seems nuts to me. IT makes Jeff Green's contract seem team friendly.bowiac said:
Besides the fact that blindly supporting Ainge in every move, no matter how wrong is looks, would make for a pretty pointless message board, it's not like he's had a great track record with these kinds of deals. The last time this board thought Ainge made a free agent mistake was Jeff Green...TheRooster said:
Ainge is a fine GM. He's been a good drafter, and deserves a lot of benefit of the doubt in that department. Valuing existing players though? It's not like he's got a long track record of being proven right there.
Agreed. This is a tradeable contract if it comes to that and Bradley's not in his prime yet; it'll look pretty good if two years from now Ainge can flip him for something more immediately valuable and if not he'll be at the tail-end of his deal, with a raised salary cap, when they might actually be starting to contend again.HomeRunBaker said:
Y'all are living and dying with these deals like they matter. This team is years from being good. Chill out. Watch some Warriors games. It'll be fine.
At first I was shocked at this number but then this is a whole new market with new cap numbers to come so it's hard to get your head around it. We'll only know for sure once other contracts have been signed. Let's face it, though, on the face of it, seems like an overpay and all the money is guaranteed with no options. Could he get this on the open market? I'd say no way. $6 million a year with some club options seems more realistic to me.
Isn't the salary cap projected to go up? I just don't see how this is an overpay. Bradley is only 23 and can play. He still has room for improvement.
The jeff green contract shouldn't be brought up without context.
The jeff green contract shouldn't be brought up without context.
Reposting my rant from the Celts rebuilding thread
I freaking hate this. He isnt improving in general and especially his shooting ever. I dont know about Danny but I like "shooting" guards who can shoot. And the dude cant cover 2s and cant play the point, so he doesnt have a natural position on the floor. And Smart is sort of like that too until he can prove he can play the point. So for a variety of reasons I freaking hate this. And I didnt even get to the fact that at $8M he is basically market value for the production we are going to get and thats IF he stays healthy which he also hasnt been able to do. I cant think of a single thing I like about it
I freaking hate this. He isnt improving in general and especially his shooting ever. I dont know about Danny but I like "shooting" guards who can shoot. And the dude cant cover 2s and cant play the point, so he doesnt have a natural position on the floor. And Smart is sort of like that too until he can prove he can play the point. So for a variety of reasons I freaking hate this. And I didnt even get to the fact that at $8M he is basically market value for the production we are going to get and thats IF he stays healthy which he also hasnt been able to do. I cant think of a single thing I like about it
Yes, if he improves, he could be worth this contract.luckiestman said:
But yes, Blacken is absolutely correct that this doesn't really matter as far as building the next Celtics contender. It's an overpay for a player I think is pretty fungible (I wouldn't have re-signed him at almost any plausible price), but it's not going to matter by the time the Celtics are good again.
It kind of matters in terms of building a fun team to watch for the next few years on the other hand, and I think that matters too. It's not all about titles for me. Flags fly forever, but wins are fun.
To be fair, you should point out that you've never really been an Avery Bradley guy, even when he was making a big impact.
This discussion reminds me of this thread from last season when Bradley first returned from shoulder surgery and the Celtics immediately won something like 5 out of 6. In there you said of Bradley
Since that time we have certainly learned that Bradley can't really handle playing PG, as after Rondo went down with his ACL injury, Bradley really dropped off. We also still don't know whether he can make it through an 82 game season without missing significant time. However, there is a reason this guy once replaced Ray Allen in the starting lineup, and was a key part of a major turnaround in the second half of the 2012 season. This old John Hollinger column (Insider required) laid out the statistical impact Bradley made on that team. The question is whether or not Bradley somehow lost the ability to play that great defense at only the age of 23.
At the moment this looks like an iffy contract, but I believe Bradley is capable of living up to it, so I am not too upset about it.
luckiestman said:
Have to disagree strongly on the improvement. Defensively he isnt getting better, its also unclear if he can stay healthy. Last year his 3pt shooting improved but then he had a significant dip from his 11/12 2pt FG% from 51% which was great to 45% Then if you dig into the shooting splits, per basketball ref, his 2pt FG% by distance was 0-3 feet 18.7%, 3 to 10 8%, 10-16 6% and in the least efficient shot in basketball the 16ft+ and under 3pt range he was 42.5% If opponents are smart this will catch up to him because they will just play up on him and stop the 3s and long jumpers because he doesnt scare them driving to the basket whatsoever. In 11/12 he was great because his 0 to 3ft shooting % was 41% so opponents had to worry about him around the hoop but that was when he had the Big3 along side of him playing good basketball, but now his lack of individual skill stands out like a sore thumb.
If you cant tell I dont like him as a player.