At This Point in the Season, What Would You Consider a Success?

bosockboy

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
15,560
St. Louis, MO
My completely uneducated opinion is that JWH the hedge fund speculator, doesn’t believe one player should take up 16-18% of a 25 man payroll. That 2-3 good players are a better use of that money.
 

Red(s)HawksFan

Member
SoSH Member
Jan 23, 2009
15,449
Maine
Not a mod, obviously, but is this the thread to re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-hash the Betts thing?
 

YTF

Member
SoSH Member
I feel like I keep hammering this point, but what is the evidence that this team is on the upswing and that the organization is rebuilt? That seems completely up in the air to me and dependent on player development and what the Sox do with their own and other free agents (ahixh

The only players the Sox control for 2023 or beyond are (based on current roster)

IF: Devers, Arroyo, Arauz, Dalbec
SP: Pivetta, Houck, Whitlock
RP: Barnes, Brasier, Davis, Sawa, Taylor, Hernandez
OF: Renfroe, Cordero, Verdugo, Duran
C:

Some of these players won’t make it this long, and others (Seabold, Bello, Mata, Wong, Casas, Mayer) will be on the team, knocking on the door, traded by then…. But the core of this team, even two years from now….is largely unknown.

It’s not like years ago when Betts, Devers, Bogaerts etc were all locked up for a long time.
A couple of points...Is having your best offensive player locked up a bad thing? Potentially 3/5 of your rotation? The possible answer to our 1B prayers? What COULD be your starting OF? How about your bridge to 2B who might also be able to serve as a flexible option elsewhere? Years ago (depending on what "years ago actually means") were we sure about the players that were locked up and under control? Things are as you say, up in the air and are most seasons. We've been very spoiled in the past 17 seasons with a fair amount of roster stability, but it's the exception rather than the rule.
 

cantor44

Member
SoSH Member
Dec 23, 2020
1,292
Chicago, IL
A couple of points...Is having your best offensive player locked up a bad thing? Potentially 3/5 of your rotation? The possible answer to our 1B prayers? What COULD be your starting OF? How about your bridge to 2B who might also be able to serve as a flexible option elsewhere? Years ago (depending on what "years ago actually means") were we sure about the players that were locked up and under control? Things are as you say, up in the air and are most seasons. We've been very spoiled in the past 17 seasons with a fair amount of roster stability, but it's the exception rather than the rule.
I know this is perpetuating the sub tangential conversation in this thread, but ....might be interesting to study roster stability, and the impacts that FA has had, and more specifically, the evolutionary utilization of FA ....

The Yankees somehow managed to keep the homegrown core of their dynasty team together - Posada, Jeter, Williams, Rivera, Pettitte (with Pettitte taking a little walkabout to the Astros for a bit). They managed that. Then again, that was a time when they spent far more than the next closest team, which is no longer the case.
 

scottyno

Member
SoSH Member
Dec 7, 2008
8,874
I know this is perpetuating the sub tangential conversation in this thread, but ....might be interesting to study roster stability, and the impacts that FA has had, and more specifically, the evolutionary utilization of FA ....

The Yankees somehow managed to keep the homegrown core of their dynasty team together - Posada, Jeter, Williams, Rivera, Pettitte (with Pettitte taking a little walkabout to the Astros for a bit). They managed that. Then again, that was a time when they spent far more than the next closest team, which is no longer the case.
It helped that they never had to deal with a significant luxury tax
 

Red(s)HawksFan

Member
SoSH Member
Jan 23, 2009
15,449
Maine
It helped that they never had to deal with a significant luxury tax
To wit, from 1997 through 1999, the Yankees paid $4.4M, $600K, and $4.8M in the first three years of a luxury tax system. There was no luxury tax in 2000-2002. 2003 was the last World Series appearance for that core. Obviously Jeter, Posada, and Rivera made it to the 2009 title but that was hardly the core of that team anymore.
 

moondog80

heart is two sizes two small
SoSH Member
Sep 20, 2005
5,976
92 wins. I'll be bummed if they lose Tuesday, but it's a success.
 

Jason Bae

lurker
Jul 23, 2021
190
NJ
I'm very happy with this season even though the second half was a bit frustrating. This season's playoff hopes hinged on a turnaround by the pitching staff and they got it (5.58 ERA in 2020, 4.25 ERA in 2021). If anything, they ended up underperforming their ERA estimators (FIP, xFIP) by a pretty decent margin. Pretty happy with the offseason and deadline acquisitions, and they managed to do it while the farm system improves.
 

Ale Xander

killed off Vin Scully
SoSH Member
Oct 31, 2013
43,714
If we win on Tuesday by a score of 19-3 or better, I will consider that a success.
 

mauf

Anderson Cooper × Mr. Rogers
Staff member
Dope
37-34 after the All-Star Break.

There would’ve been a lot less angst about this team if they hadn’t begun a 2-10 stretch like a day before the trade deadline. The COVID outbreak probably cost them a game or two; otherwise, their 2nd half W-L was roughly what their 1st half RS/RA would’ve told us to expect.
 

Niastri

Member
SoSH Member
Hey everybody, it's Yankee Elimination Day! And it was relatively stress free.

If you told me four hours ago Stanton was going to hit a ninth inning homerun, I wouldn't have believed you if you also told me I was going to be blasé about it.
 

MonstahsInLeft

Member
SoSH Member
Funny how even after 2004, the subsequent WS wins, and overall success of this team for almost a generation now there was still lingering angst over the '78 elimination game and Bucky (bleeping) Dent.

I mean sure a lot of it was manufactured this time around but I can't deny I had a feeling they were going to get knocked out by the Yanks this time too and it was going to have a little extra historical sting to it.

Thanks for burying that ghost too boys and now BONUS BASEBALL!!!

I had them as a high 80's team and competing for a playoff spot at the start of the season. Despite stumbling in at the finish, after eliminating the Yanks to get into the playoffs for real this definitely goes in the books as a success for me.
 

Manuel Aristides

Member
SoSH Member
Apr 7, 2009
102
This was enough. But outlasting LAD as well would be pretty nice icing. The rays deserve to advance, I'll actually feel a little bad if Sox somehow manage to upset them.
 

deanx0

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Dec 7, 2004
2,152
Orlando, FL
Not completely in the Red Sox control, but can we add "The Yankees bringing back Aaron Boone" as a final element of a successful Red Sox season?
 

Archer1979

shazowies
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Jul 18, 2005
5,371
Right Here
Not completely in the Red Sox control, but can we add "The Yankees bringing back Aaron Boone" as a final element of a successful Red Sox season?

This is a great point. There was a chance that they'd jettison Boone if they didn't make the playoffs. Losing six straight to NY in the second half breathed life back into his tenure as manager.
 

Red(s)HawksFan

Member
SoSH Member
Jan 23, 2009
15,449
Maine
This is a great point. There was a chance that they'd jettison Boone if they didn't make the playoffs. Losing six straight to NY in the second half breathed life back into his tenure as manager.
If he's back, it will be a watershed moment in Yankee history: he will be the first manager in over 100 years to make it to his fifth season at the helm without winning a championship.
 

Archer1979

shazowies
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Jul 18, 2005
5,371
Right Here
If he's back, it will be a watershed moment in Yankee history: he will be the first manager in over 100 years to make it to his fifth season at the helm without winning a championship.

What's interesting is that if he does get shown the door, both his last game as NYY manager, as well as Bucky Dent's, would be due to losses against the Sox.
 

sean1562

Member
SoSH Member
Sep 17, 2011
3,391
https://blogs.fangraphs.com/fangraphs-2021-staff-predictions/

Oh I'm sorry Fangraphs writers, only a single vote for the Red Sox to even make the playoffs? With 31 voting for the Yankees to win the division??

https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/31157915/2021-mlb-season-predictions-division-champs-world-series-picks-mvp-cy-young-favorites

Oh ESPN with a similar opinion?

https://www.si.com/mlb/2021/03/29/baseball-preview-projected-standings

SI with the great line: "Order, restored: The Yankees should match the AL’s highest payroll with the league’s best record."
 

TFisNEXT

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Jul 21, 2005
11,639
Hard for me to not consider the season success (even before last night) given the preseason expectations.

That said, I really want to beat the Rays now and keep the ride going. If there is one thing missing from the championship runs over the years since 2004, it's a Red Sox team that was clearly not considered one of the top 2 or 3 best teams in the league running the table. Like a 2006 STL run or a 2014 Giants run.
 

Sandy Leon Trotsky

Member
SoSH Member
Mar 11, 2007
3,688
That's a weird take. Will you feel bad after the Sox win the WS this year?
I can sympathize. I suffer from serious Catholic and Jewish guilt combined into one paralyzing force... it applies to almost everything other than the Yankees. I feel bad for the other team and the Rays have really put together great underdog teams after great underdog teams. I REALLY want the Sox to win... but I'll feel bad for the Rays if we beat them. Probably more than the other remaining teams actually. I'll be hurt and disappointed if the Sox lose.... but we beat the MFY's again.
 
Oct 29, 2018
333
New Jersey
Hard for me to not consider the season success (even before last night) given the preseason expectations.

That said, I really want to beat the Rays now and keep the ride going. If there is one thing missing from the championship runs over the years since 2004, it's a Red Sox team that was clearly not considered one of the top 2 or 3 best teams in the league running the table. Like a 2006 STL run or a 2014 Giants run.
Agree with this 100%. I'm not sure we've seen another season where the remaining teams, in both AL and NL, are this loaded. I'd absolutely love to see this team shock everyone.
 

Red(s)HawksFan

Member
SoSH Member
Jan 23, 2009
15,449
Maine
Agree with this 100%. I'm not sure we've seen another season where the remaining teams, in both AL and NL, are this loaded. I'd absolutely love to see this team shock everyone.
2018 was pretty loaded (like this year, the Braves had the lowest win total of any qualifier). Of course, the Sox were the loaded-est team that year, but they still had to go through two 100-win teams to make the Series.
 
Oct 29, 2018
333
New Jersey
2018 was pretty loaded (like this year, the Braves had the lowest win total of any qualifier). Of course, the Sox were the loaded-est team that year, but they still had to go through two 100-win teams to make the Series.
Very true - that Houston team in particular was fearsome. It might just be recency bias, but I feel like the league is even more polarized now, and the upper quadrant or so of the league is just stacked. This is also the first year that I feel the NL has absolute megapowers awaiting the ALCS winner. 2018 LAD were a great team, but this year's squad (along with SFG) is on another level.
 

Marbleheader

Dope
Dope
Sep 27, 2004
10,947
Hard for me to not consider the season success (even before last night) given the preseason expectations.

That said, I really want to beat the Rays now and keep the ride going. If there is one thing missing from the championship runs over the years since 2004, it's a Red Sox team that was clearly not considered one of the top 2 or 3 best teams in the league running the table. Like a 2006 STL run or a 2014 Giants run.
The 2013 team was very unexpected, they were 35-1 to win at the start of the season. The Giants were 20-1 in 2014. Even though they were slight favorites in the ALCS against Detroit, the majority of pundits predicted the Tigers to win the series.
 

TFisNEXT

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Jul 21, 2005
11,639
The 2013 team was very unexpected, they were 35-1 to win at the start of the season. The Giants were 20-1 in 2014. Even though they were slight favorites in the ALCS against Detroit, the majority of pundits predicted the Tigers to win the series.
Oh I know the 2013 squad were big dogs early in the season, but by the time the playoffs rolled around, they were pretty clearly one of the best teams in baseball. Detroit was basically an even match for them with perhaps anyone being able to argue on the margins for either team. But once the playoffs were here, nobody was totally shocked that the Red Sox ran the table.

I think most people would be genuinely shocked if the 2021 Red Sox managed the same fate despite winning last night.