Astros Ass't GM Brandon Taubman: Asshole (and Now He Is a Fired Asshole)

[InsideTheParker]

Powerful males are threatened by women doing "men's jobs." They are enabled to express their true feelings by some in positions of power.
I was going to root for DC anyway, but, like Marciano, I am waiting for the other shoe to drop, because these attitudes are widespread, even in DC (hint hint)! As for the split-personality response by the Houston front office, Americans hear these "that's not what I meant to say, was misquoted, misunderstood," etc., yadayadayada, all day long, every day. Just so long as the Red Sox stay away from this guy and Cora doesn't speak out in his defense, I'm good for now.

 

[Al Zarilla]

That "I am sorry if anyone was offended by my actions" is a crummy apology, not that it isn't used all the time. How about "I am sorry" or "I am sorry for my actions".

 

[dhappy42]

It’s easy and proper to drag Taubman, but we’re all complicit. As long as we continue to root for players that commit domestic violence and/or the teams that employ them, we’re admitting we are okay with violence against women.

Being outraged toward Taubman seems like being mad at a tree rather than the whole rotten forest.

Looking at the forest, or at least the sports part of it, what’s an appropriate penalty for players like Asuna, Chapman, Wright etc.? I don’t know how pro sports domestic violence suspensions are calculated, but they clearly aren’t sufficient. And suspensions create the “market inefficiency” that teams with questionable integrity can exploit.

 

[Marciano490]

Looking at the forest, or at least the sports part of it, what’s an appropriate penalty for players like Asuna, Chapman, Wright etc.? I don’t know how pro sports domestic violence suspensions are calculated, but they clearly aren’t sufficient. And suspensions create the “market inefficiency” that teams with questionable integrity can exploit.

I honestly don’t know. I wouldn’t be uncomfortable with a lifetime ban. It sends the right message. It’s really not hard to go through life without hitting your partner.

Also, I hate the Brock Turner logic that people with more to lose should be treated more leniently than average folks. Lives are very often permanently affected by a few individual acts - some of which aren’t even bad. Plus, I think we need to be honest about the effects of incarceration on people. Sure, if you get caught with some drugs or steal something, you might only be in jail for a few months, but you come out jobless and with a record and it can set people back years, if not permanently.

I’d want to leave something open for rehabilitation, but I’d include a one more strike and you’re done system. Plus, a substantial portion of an abuser’s salary should go to charities that support victim’s of domestic violence and the player should be required to raise awareness of the issue through appearances and whatnot.

If Osuna only made $1 million every year for the rest of his career and $10 million had to go to charity, I’d be okay with that.

 

[SemperFidelisSox]

MLB has sent investigators to Houston. - Joel Sherman

 

[santadevil]

I mean, you can keep going with this, do you watch TV? Movies? Listen to music? Live in the US or any number of other countries?

I think specific outrage towards Taubman here is very merited, dude went out of his way to throw this in those reporters' faces, he wasn't being questioned about it, Osuna wasn't being interviewed, he was just being a (presumably) drunken asshole. Also, it's pretty irrelevant but Osuna was the single worst Astro in that game by WPA after giving up the lead in the 9th, so especially odd timing for that outburst.

This is what I was wondering when this story first came out. Did Taubman even watch the game?
What the hell was the point of saying any of this, other than to be an asshole

Guy should be first and with MLB sending investigators, maybe he will be

Let's get this proper link up to the tweet from Sherman:
View: https://twitter.com/Joelsherman1/status/1186722865556668416

 

[Gdiguy]

I don't get the Astros' initial response - did he just blatantly lie to them about what he said? Or did they really believe that they could deny something that a room full of reporters saw?

(if the former, that's the hook they'll use to backtrack to justify punishing him a few days from now)

 

[E5 Yaz]

I don't get the Astros' initial response - did he just blatantly lie to them about what he said? Or did they really believe that they could deny something that a room full of reporters saw?

Yes?

 

[joe dokes]

It’s easy and proper to drag Taubman, but we’re all complicit. As long as we continue to root for players that commit domestic violence and/or the teams that employ them, we’re admitting we are okay with violence against women.

Being outraged toward Taubman seems like being mad at a tree rather than the whole rotten forest.

I think these are two separate issues, (Although obviously related), that you get to here:

I honestly don’t know. I wouldn’t be uncomfortable with a lifetime ban. It sends the right message. It’s really not hard to go through life without hitting your partner.
Also, I hate the Brock Turner logic that people with more to lose should be treated more leniently than average folks. Lives are very often permanently affected by a few individual acts - some of which aren’t even bad. Plus, I think we need to be honest about the effects of incarceration on people. Sure, if you get caught with some drugs or steal something, you might only be in jail for a few months, but you come out jobless and with a record and it can set people back years, if not permanently.
I’d want to leave something open for rehabilitation, but I’d include a one more strike and you’re done system. Plus, a substantial portion of an abuser’s salary should go to charities that support victim’s of domestic violence and the player should be required to raise awareness of the issue through appearances and whatnot.
If Osuna only made $1 million every year for the rest of his career and $10 million had to go to charity, I’d be okay with that.

If it's anything short of a lifetime ban, then your average fan is left to decide whether to "root for" such a player. I have no way of knowing, and certainly this place is not representative of any sports-viewing population, but I'd like to think that at least a plurality of fans suffer from some sort of internal conflict when one of their guys is a bad guy. We saw it here during AB's brief tenure.

With hopes, only Brock Turner, his lawyer his judge and very very few others buy the "Brock Turner logic." (Not totally hopeful there, though).

The bolded is interesting fodder for discussion.

Ultimately, though, I dont think dragging Taubman, while (eventually) rooting for Osuna is as much of an admission as you say.

 

[Van Everyman]

So Taubman is sorry if anyone is offended and Crane has no opinion on his actions at all?

 

[Fishercat]

View: https://twitter.com/davidfolkenflik/status/1186755725969809408


David Folkenflik

@davidfolkenflik

NEWS: Astros assistant GM Brandon Taubman was targeting a female reporter wearing a purple bracelet on domestic violence. She has tweeted frequently on DV; he complained about her tweets offering info on DV hotlines when Roberto Osuna appeared in Astros games in 2018. My story:
Quote Tweet

It appears Taubman and the particular reporter may have had some history which brings into doubt Taubman's defense should there be one on this front.

 

[Marciano490]

View: https://twitter.com/davidfolkenflik/status/1186755725969809408


David Folkenflik
@davidfolkenflik

NEWS: Astros assistant GM Brandon Taubman was targeting a female reporter wearing a purple bracelet on domestic violence. She has tweeted frequently on DV; he complained about her tweets offering info on DV hotlines when Roberto Osuna appeared in Astros games in 2018. My story:
Quote Tweet

It appears Taubman and the particular reporter may have had some history which brings into doubt Taubman's defense should there be one on this front.

So, Taubman is an enormous piece of shit and deserves individual scorn. But, we can’t be naive and act surprised that this time of individual is employed by an organization that used other teams’ scruples about employing an abuser to its own competitive advantage.

This is the mindset that allows for players like Osuna to continue making millions of dollars. Taubman pulled the curtain back.

 

[dhappy42]

Osuna was arrested and charged with physically assaulting the mother of his 3-year-old kid.

Taubman verbally harassed and intimidated one or more female reporters. (It’s not clear to me whether he was targeting the reporter with the purple bracelet or all three.)

The acts are obviously connected and part of the same misogynist culture, but they’re not the same thing. It‘d be ironic if Taubman’s punishment is more severe than Osuna’s. I’m not defending Taubman. I think the Astros should fire him. But he’s much easier for the team and fans to sacrifice than players like Osuna and Chapman.

 

[Marciano490]

Osuna was arrested and charged with physically assaulting the mother of his 3-year-old kid.

Taubman verbally harassed and intimidated one or more female reporters. (It’s not clear to me whether he was targeting the reporter with the purple bracelet or all three.)

The acts are obviously connected and part of the same misogynist culture, but they’re not the same thing. It‘d be ironic if Taubman’s punishment is more severe than Osuna’s. I’m not defending Taubman. I think the Astros should fire him. But he’s much easier for the team and fans to sacrifice than players like Osuna and Chapman.

They’re not the same thing, but they’re part of the same structure. Guys like Taubman enable guys like Osuna. And fans enable them both. If there were executives or a majority of fans of better conscience, guys like Osuna either wouldn’t be playing (thereby sending a strong message to other players and observers of all genders) or would maybe think twice before striking their partners.

 

[YTF]

That "I am sorry if anyone was offended by my actions" is a crummy apology, not that it isn't used all the time. How about "I am sorry" or "I am sorry for my actions".

In this day and age few people actually recognize that as an apology yet it still gets peddled as such. Three days after the fact he was clearly told to address this. That this is an acceptable apology to his employer disappoints me greatly. If memory serves, there were some Astro's that were critical about Osuna becoming part of the team. Those same players need to express their displeasure over this to ownership. Go Nats!!!

 

[gedman211]

View: https://twitter.com/davidfolkenflik/status/1186755725969809408


David Folkenflik
@davidfolkenflik

NEWS: Astros assistant GM Brandon Taubman was targeting a female reporter wearing a purple bracelet on domestic violence. She has tweeted frequently on DV; he complained about her tweets offering info on DV hotlines when Roberto Osuna appeared in Astros games in 2018. My story:
Quote Tweet

It appears Taubman and the particular reporter may have had some history which brings into doubt Taubman's defense should there be one on this front.

Yeah, I assumed they had a prior beef, but this seals it. They gotta fire this dude.

 

[NJ_Sox_Fan]

Yeah, I assumed they had a prior beef, but this seals it. They gotta fire this dude.

Do they though? How do you still employee the piece of shit who actually committed a crime, but fire the guy who is just a piece of shit but committed no crime?

 

[E5 Yaz]

Do they though? How do you still employee the piece of shit who actually committed a crime, but fire the guy who is just a piece of shit but committed no crime?

Which one throws 90 mph?

 

[sean1562]

Travis Sawchik posted some relevant excerpts from his very good book The MVP Machine, I forgot that they wanted to draft Luke Heimlich also (!!!).

View: https://twitter.com/Travis_Sawchik/status/1186633103688769536

i worked at a fairly large tech/startup company and slack accounts being deactivated were typically how everyone figured out how someone got fired there as well. very rarely would we ever get a "this person has been terminated" announcement.

 

[Van Everyman]

Shaughnessy just wrote his best piece in a while:

View: https://twitter.com/dan_shaughnessy/status/1186802329619591169?s=21


Hinch is the only one with any character at all:

It was left to Houston manager AJ Hinch to do the right thing and he handled the opening question of his afternoon presser in dignified fashion, saying, “I’m very disappointed for a lot of reasons. It’s unfortunate, it’s uncalled for . . . I take everything that happens in that clubhouse to heart. No one, it doesn’t matter if it’s a player, a coach, a manager, any members of the media, should ever feel like when you come into our clubhouse that you’re going to be uncomfortable or disrespected.’’

 

[Flynn4ever]

I didn't want to jump to stereotypes, but Long Island to Cornell to Wall Street has to have a really high percentage of douchebros.

Let's be fair, Long Island to even lesser Upstate schools (like my alma mater) to Wall Street gives someone, I would guess about an 80% chance of being a dick.

 

[Mueller's Twin Grannies]

I don't get the Astros' initial response - did he just blatantly lie to them about what he said? Or did they really believe that they could deny something that a room full of reporters saw?

(if the former, that's the hook they'll use to backtrack to justify punishing him a few days from now)

Given what happened, it seems like more of the general dismissal of anything women say as them just being "overdramatic/overemotional" because "broads, amirite?" It falls in line with what has been going on at the macro level in the country for some time, especially for a red state full of good ol' boys.

Given what we know about the organization, my guess is the obsession with winning has clouded their moral judgment now that all their years of tanking have finally paid off in a title contention window for a team that is built to compete at the highest level.

Also, everything is bigger in Texas, including the assholes and the arrogance.

I hope MLB brings the hammer down if the investigation confirms what has been reported by SI.

 

[gkelly53]

I’m not condoning what he said and when he chose to say it. I just find it egregious that we want to tar and feather somebody and black list them for saying something insensitive but the guys like Osuna and wright and Chapman and russell get to take their sensitivity training and suspension and everybody forgets the awful acts they committed. The league needs to decide to kick these guys out of the game

 

[Lose Remerswaal]

I believe others have previously agreed with that concept, above

 

[E5 Yaz]

Shaughnessy just wrote his best piece in a while:

View: https://twitter.com/dan_shaughnessy/status/1186802329619591169?s=21

I guess I have a hard time understanding why I should root against Altuve, Reddick, Cole, Hinch and the majority of the rest of the team because the franchise employs Osuna, Gurriel and Taubman.

I mean, I'm rooting for the Nationals because when the Red Sox aren't involved, I always root for the team that has gone the longest without a title. But this blanket "you can't root for the Astros" stuff just seems like soapbox pandering.

 

[NJ_Sox_Fan]

I guess I have a hard time understanding why I should root against Altuve, Reddick, Cole, Hinch and the majority of the rest of the team because the franchise employs Osuna, Gurriel and Taubman.

I mean, I'm rooting for the Nationals because when the Red Sox aren't involved, I always root for the team that has gone the longest without a title. But this blanket "you can't root for the Astros" stuff just seems like soapbox pandering.

Yes. It’s pretty ridiculous. Aaron Hernandez murdered people, and I still love the Patriots.

 

[Cellar-Door]

I guess I have a hard time understanding why I should root against Altuve, Reddick, Cole, Hinch and the majority of the rest of the team because the franchise employs Osuna, Gurriel and Taubman.

I mean, I'm rooting for the Nationals because when the Red Sox aren't involved, I always root for the team that has gone the longest without a title. But this blanket "you can't root for the Astros" stuff just seems like soapbox pandering.

Meh, you're rewarding the franchise despite it being owned and operated by shitty people. You can justify it if you want, but the organization itself is the issue here. This isn't some rogue actor, it's a top to bottom rot, it is who they are and what they stand for. that some of the guys employed by the team seem like okay guys doesn't change that.

 

[dhappy42]

Are you a Pats fan? What Robert Kraft is accused of is arguably much worse than what Taubman is accused of.

 

[E5 Yaz]

Meh, you're rewarding the franchise despite it being owned and operated by shitty people. You can justify it if you want, but the organization itself is the issue here. This isn't some rogue actor, it's a top to bottom rot, it is who they are and what they stand for. that some of the guys employed by the team seem like okay guys doesn't change that.

Right, we should torture ourselves with Klingon pain sticks for rooting for the Red Sox during the Yawkey years

 

[joe dokes]

I guess I have a hard time understanding why I should root against Altuve, Reddick, Cole, Hinch and the majority of the rest of the team because the franchise employs Osuna, Gurriel and Taubman.

I mean, I'm rooting for the Nationals because when the Red Sox aren't involved, I always root for the team that has gone the longest without a title. But this blanket "you can't root for the Astros" stuff just seems like soapbox pandering.

Its not that complicated for me. I was pretty agnostic about rooting. Taubman's act -- and the Astros handling of it -- which all happened right before game 1, moved the needle for the next 10 days. I still like all those players, but go Natinals.

 

[Cellar-Door]

Right, we should torture ourselves with Klingon pain sticks for rooting for the Red Sox during the Yawkey years

No, you can do what you want, but pretending that you're being "forced to root against Altuve" is a dumb way of framing it. People are saying that the Astros as an organization is run by shitty people, and if you root for them it emboldens them to keep being shitty. You can certainly root for them if you like, but framing it as... "why am I punishing the good guys" is just silly.

 

[thehitcat]

Its not that complicated for me. I was pretty agnostic about rooting. Taubman's act -- and the Astros handling of it -- which all happened right before game 1, moved the needle for the next 10 days. I still like all those players, but go Natinals.

Exactly this I like some of the Astro players but fuck that team and their "leadership".

 

[E5 Yaz]

No, you can do what you want, but pretending that you're being "forced to root against Altuve" is a dumb way of framing it. People are saying that the Astros as an organization is run by shitty people, and if you root for them it emboldens them to keep being shitty. You can certainly root for them if you like, but framing it as... "why am I punishing the good guys" is just silly.

And taking this all or nothing stance is very easy to do when you're not, say, an 8-year-old baseball fan in Houston who you're telling is shitty for rooting for the home team.

Absolute moralizing over this is useless, and that was the point of CHB's soapboxing. There are shitty people on every pro sports team -- including the Nationals, and any home teams here.

Your blanket assessment that "the Astros as an organization is run by shitty people" reads like you know each and every person who runs the Astros, and they're all shitty. You don't

 

[Cellar-Door]

And taking this all or nothing stance is very easy to do when you're not, say, an 8-year-old baseball fan in Houston who you're telling is shitty for rooting for the home team.

Absolute moralizing over this is useless, and that was the point of CHB's soapboxing. There are shitty people on every pro sports team -- including the Nationals, and any home teams here.

Your blanket assessment that "the Astros as an organization is run by shitty people" reads like you know each and every person who runs the Astros, and they're all shitty. You don't

I know who their owner is, I know who their GM is and I know how they have handled not just this DV issue, but the Osuna acquisition originally. I think that calling it an organization run by shitty people is a fair assessment when one knows who the owner is, who the GM is, and how they handle thier business.

You seem to think I'm saying people can't/shouldn't root for them.... I'm not, I'm just saying that rooting for them comes with the knowledge of who they are. I root for the Patriots, Bob Kraft isn't a good person, the NFL is run by people who aren't good people. I accept that when I root for them. I'm not watching the NFL and Patriots because "it isn't fair to the good people who work for the NFL not to", I'm watching them because I have decided that I prefer to get the enjoyment and support generally crappy people/businesses over not supporting crappy people and getting less entertainment.

 

[Max Power]

And taking this all or nothing stance is very easy to do when you're not, say, an 8-year-old baseball fan in Houston who you're telling is shitty for rooting for the home team.

Absolute moralizing over this is useless, and that was the point of CHB's soapboxing. There are shitty people on every pro sports team -- including the Nationals, and any home teams here.

Your blanket assessment that "the Astros as an organization is run by shitty people" reads like you know each and every person who runs the Astros, and they're all shitty. You don't

The official team press release called the reporters liars. It's more than just one shitty person running things in that organization.

 

[jon abbey]

The official team press release called the reporters liars.

And the team still hasn't retracted this original PR (which was clearly full of obvious lies) or criticized Taubman's completely unprovoked and unprofessional behavior in any way.

 

[E5 Yaz]

The official team press release called the reporters liars. It's more than just one shitty person running things in that organization.

I never said it was. All I'm saying is painting the entire organization with the same brush based on the actions of its bad apples is soapbox moralizing ... as is saying you can't root for the team to win because they have those bad apples

 

[E5 Yaz]

And the team still hasn't retracted this original PR (which was clearly full of obvious lies) or criticized Taubman's completely unprovoked and unprofessional behavior in any way.

I'm sure that will come after the Yankees apologize for employing Chapman, despite what they know about his history

 

[Ale Xander]

Karma, pleasure to meet you.

 

[Spacemans Bong]

I’m not condoning what he said and when he chose to say it. I just find it egregious that we want to tar and feather somebody and black list them for saying something insensitive but the guys like Osuna and wright and Chapman and russell get to take their sensitivity training and suspension and everybody forgets the awful acts they committed. The league needs to decide to kick these guys out of the game

This is just awful, idiotic grandstanding.

lifetime bans would have a severe chilling effect on reporting domestic violence — putting abused women in the situation of having to judge the severity of their abuse while it’s happening and weigh whether costing their partner his livelihood is worth calling the cops — and would incentivize abusers to keep their partner quiet at all costs.

You also make no differentiation between people who may have had the worst night of their marriage with no actual violence involved (which is Stephen Wright’s claim) versus repeated physical abuse (which is what Addison Russell’s partner claimed). That leads to disproportionate, absurd penalties for having a loud argument.

The problem is MLB’s therapy requirements for abusers are minimal. Chapman went to one therapy session, blew off the rest of them, and didn’t receive any sanction for it. I doubt anybody else has gone to anything. Therapy for abusers is surprisingly effective, provided they actually do it. Tying that to continued eligibility seems like a good idea going forward.

And people like Taubman need to be told to be quiet and act like a professional or he can go back to Wall Street and fuck his spreadsheet there.

 

[johnmd20]

This is just awful, idiotic grandstanding.

Don't sugarcoat it, Bong.

 

[Spacemans Bong]

Don't sugarcoat it, Bong.

Call it the zeal of the converted. Seriously dude, Diana Moskowitz wrote a fantastic article on Deadspin that went into great detail about how zero tolerance is just an awful idea for this kind of stuff. Zero tolerance isn't about the abuser or the abused, it's about making third parties feel better. It's an article that completely changed my mind about how to approach domestic violence and sent me down a big rabbit hole as to how to better approach that stuff. I firmly believe society and sports does a seriously awful job approaching domestic violence: basically treating it as innate like wanting to molest children, and treating women who don't actually want to leave their partners as either bad women or petrified out of their wits. From what I've read, most victims don't want to leave their partners because they love them, they just want them to stop hitting them.

I'm already just regurgitating her stuff so might as well link to it so people can get it from the source. The one thing I'd disagree with is her claim that domestic violence perpetrator programs have mixed effectiveness. As a short research paper for the Welsh Assembly pointed out:

"High expectations of behaviour change are also questionable when compared to the expectations of medical interventions – Lee, Sebold and Uken (2003) for example, when reviewing briefly the evidence for DVPPs as part of their work on solution focussed therapy refer to recidivism rates of around 45% as if these indicate failure. Yet this implies success rates of more than 50%, if recidivism is the measure – medicines get licensed for public use on less than this."

It's not a magic bullet, but a comprehensive intervention program, possibly led by the MLBPA in conjunction with MLB in order to safeguard the neutrality of the program -- as Moskowitz points out, Josh Brown's wife didn't want to talk to the NFL because she didn't feel they had her best interests in mind, only theirs (and was she wrong? No) -- would seem the best course of action here. Any program would have to tailor itself to the individual player and their family, looking at past trauma, potential substance abuse issues and potential cultural hurdles (not least language). Tying it to onfield eligibility would ensure players show up.

The biggest pitfall is players and their partners would still see it as a trap, but I think the only thing you can do is bend over backwards to ensure it's not.

 

[Marciano490]

Call it the zeal of the converted. Seriously dude, Diana Moskowitz wrote a fantastic article on Deadspin that went into great detail about how zero tolerance is just an awful idea for this kind of stuff. Zero tolerance isn't about the abuser or the abused, it's about making third parties feel better. It's an article that completely changed my mind about how to approach domestic violence and sent me down a big rabbit hole as to how to better approach that stuff. I firmly believe society and sports does a seriously awful job approaching domestic violence: basically treating it as innate like wanting to molest children, and treating women who don't actually want to leave their partners as either bad women or petrified out of their wits. From what I've read, most victims don't want to leave their partners because they love them, they just want them to stop hitting them.

I'm already just regurgitating her stuff so might as well link to it so people can get it from the source. The one thing I'd disagree with is her claim that domestic violence perpetrator programs have mixed effectiveness. As a short research paper for the Welsh Assembly pointed out:



It's not a magic bullet, but a comprehensive intervention program, possibly led by the MLBPA in conjunction with MLB in order to safeguard the neutrality of the program -- as Moskowitz points out, Josh Brown's wife didn't want to talk to the NFL because she didn't feel they had her best interests in mind, only theirs (and was she wrong? No) -- would seem the best course of action here. Any program would have to tailor itself to the individual player and their family, looking at past trauma, potential substance abuse issues and potential cultural hurdles (not least language). Tying it to onfield eligibility would ensure players show up.

The biggest pitfall is players and their partners would still see it as a trap, but I think the only thing you can do is bend over backwards to ensure it's not.

One of the purposes of punishment is deterrence for society at large. Part of what your position misses is that people seeing Chapman and Osuna and others being celebrated and paid millions of dollars sends a very clear message to would-be abusers. The other thing your position misses is the very clear message their success and celebrity gives to women - domestic abuse isn't that serious, especially if the perpetrator is good at something.

 

[Spacemans Bong]

One of the purposes of punishment is deterrence for society at large. Part of what your position misses is that people seeing Chapman and Osuna and others being celebrated and paid millions of dollars sends a very clear message to would-be abusers. The other thing your position misses is the very clear message their success and celebrity gives to women - domestic abuse isn't that serious, especially if the perpetrator is good at something.

Nobody slaps their girlfriend because a baseball player does it, and I find it curious you are more focused on what other women think than the woman being abused. It seems to me her opinion matters far more than any other woman.

"Sending a message" is the argument of Mrs Lovejoy. It's the argument of performative gestures which negatively impact the lives of abused women to make bystanders like you feel better. In my opinion, society doing less sending messages (which is really just massaging public relations for brands) and offering more concrete, material support to women and their abusers to change is just.

 

[moondog80]

One of the purposes of punishment is deterrence for society at large. Part of what your position misses is that people seeing Chapman and Osuna and others being celebrated and paid millions of dollars sends a very clear message to would-be abusers. The other thing your position misses is the very clear message their success and celebrity gives to women - domestic abuse isn't that serious, especially if the perpetrator is good at something.

Chapman was suspended 30 games and Osuna was suspended 75 games. How many employers punish domestic violence more seriously than that?

 

[BroodsSexton]

Wait, so it’s not okay to say you don’t want to root for an organization because their leadership or their members has demonstrated contemptible morals? Or are you indicting the hypocrisy of citing that in one instance and ignoring it in other instances? Because it seems to me that the latter is probably the better critique.

Let’s just be clear on who and what we’re criticizing here.

 

[BoSox Rule]

This shouldn’t be complicated. There are shitty players and employees in every organization. You can only do something about the ones you know about, and punishment for players like Osuna and Chapman is collectively bargained and was already carried out.

This guy outed himself and hopefully punishment will be carried out, but it has nothing to do with Osuna and Chapman.

 

[BroodsSexton]

This shouldn’t be complicated. There are shitty players and employees in every organization. You can only do something about the ones you know about, and punishment for players like Osuna and Chapman is collectively bargained and was already carried out.

This guy outed himself and hopefully punishment will be carried out, but it has nothing to do with Osuna and Chapman.

Is this true? And does the shitty person’s role make a difference?

In retrospect, would it have been so bad to say ”I can’t support an organization owned by the Yawkeys” or Marge Schott? I wrestle with this, myself, with the Patriots and the NFL.

It is plainly possible to support a team and be critical of certain components of that team, or certain players. But it also seems entirely valid to devise your rooting interest against an organization based on a pattern of bad behavior from top to bottom. Anyone remember Gurriel’s postseason antics?

I mean, certainly just as rational as developing a rooting interest based on where you were born. Then again, maybe there is a nativism inherent to sports allegiance that brings this all together.

 

[Average Reds]

Nobody slaps their girlfriend because a baseball player does it, and I find it curious you are more focused on what other women think than the woman being abused. It seems to me her opinion matters far more than any other woman.

I agree with you that this is a subject that has a lot of nuance. Of course, this is also why I find the first portion of your post troubling.

You are specifically right that no one can ever prove that someone slaps their significant other because of the case of one specific ballplayer. But, IMO, you are generally wrong about the fact that lots of abusers act the way they do because they believe they are more powerful than the individual they are abusing. And the societal reluctance to punish abusers is a big part of that.

"Sending a message" is the argument of Mrs Lovejoy. It's the argument of performative gestures which negatively impact the lives of abused women to make bystanders like you feel better. In my opinion, society doing less sending messages (which is really just massaging public relations for brands) and offering more concrete, material support to women and their abusers to change is just.

There should absolutely be more material support to woman and their abuser to change the status quo.

However, I am firmly of the opinion that abusers who ignore a mandate to attend counseling or who handle their legal problems by arranging (through payoffs and/or threats) for their wife/girlfriend to refuse to cooperate and/or leave the jurisdiction should be dealt with harshly.

 

[Average Reds]

Chapman was suspended 30 games and Osuna was suspended 75 games. How many employers punish domestic violence more seriously than that?

It’s a two-way street. Employers who choose to utilize the services of talented people who act in ways that society finds unacceptable are responsible for that choice.

I always find it odd that people will dig in and fight for the rights of employers to decide how they handle misbehavior of their employees and then turn around and criticize outsiders for exercising the same right.