Arsenal 2018-19: Spanish David Moyes

lars10

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I was not able to catch either of the mid week games, but Arsenal certainly has the momentum going into this match. It would certainly be fun to cap off a week with a win at Wembley and 9 points gained in like 8 days.

What I'm most interested in is whether Ozil is in the starting lineup for this one. Seems that will be very telling as to where Emery views him in this club, but if I was betting I don't think he'll be in it.
I don’t understand his hatred of Özil.. he’s playing Ramsey instead who also plays little to no D with the added benefit of playing way to far up field. He also loves Iwobi who’s next through ball or successful cross will be his first. I don’t get it other than he seems to just be stubborn.
 

Dernells Casket n Flagon

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I don’t understand his hatred of Özil.. he’s playing Ramsey instead who also plays little to no D with the added benefit of playing way to far up field. He also loves Iwobi who’s next through ball or successful cross will be his first. I don’t get it other than he seems to just be stubborn.
I mean based on how they played he had it right. I've been a big Ozil defender, but he's not showing anything right now
 

lars10

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I mean based on how they played he had it right. I've been a big Ozil defender, but he's not showing anything right now
yeah. I wonder what the difference between coming in as a sub and starting feels like.. Ozil was great during the week...not so much today.

I think you start Ozil and Aubemeyang today, but who knows.

Now a replay showing that Spurs also had at least two players in the box when Aubemyang took the penalty.. like three yards in. One of them Vertongen which is why he was able to clear the ball off the line.. he took a running start into the box as Abumeyang was running up to the ball.
 
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BostonJack42

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The Gray Eagle

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5 of the last 7 on the road is definitely not an easy schedule for Arsenal, who have been far better at home than on the road for the last 2 years.

They can lose to anyone at any time on the road. It was only a month and a half ago that they lost on the road to some tractor drivers' club called Boris Badenov.
Wait no, it was BATE Borisov, but pretty much the same thing.
 

mikeford

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We also lost to some bullshit club that didn't exist when Wenger took over in 96 in their (literal) barn with mostly this same roster last year
 

shaggydog2000

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I don't know about all this negative crap. The team is in a good spot right now. In third place with more road games than home, but not against any other top 6 teams. And they're on a roll, as compared to Tottenham who are just Sp*rsing it up lately. The defense is coming back together again, and I think the finishing kick will be strong. Injuries can always screw that up of course.

I was thinking that I'll miss Ramsey when he's gone. He came up big in the FA cup finals he played in, and always had the ability, it just seemed injury and playing in a system that wasn't built to his strengths kept him from putting it all together. There was always this weird feeling that he wasn't in the right position for him. The last group of players I had affection for is pretty much gone now. Santi, Giroud, Alexis, Rosicky, Ramsey are gone or on the way out, and Koscielny and Monreal are aging out of their roles. I had high hopes for Xhaka and Kolasinac when they first came in, but they haven't really earned beloved player status. They're just adequate. Bellerin, Gendouzi, and Holding could break through with more big performances in big games. Auba and Lacazette are very likable, but again haven't had their big games yet. Torreira is another player that came in like lightning and then leveled off. Ozil is rather mercurial, and comes off as a bit of a cold fish on the field, so he can be a bit harder to warm up to, so although I respect his talent, he just doesn't rise to that level. I know that next group is going to be there, I just wonder who it's going to be.
 

Morgan's Magic Snowplow

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United losing to Wolves is a really big help in terms of the top four race.

If Arsenal go 2-2-1 in their five road matches but win both of the home matches - which seems like a pretty reasonable prediction - we'll finish on 77 points.

United will need 16 points from six matches to tie, and even then would need to make up 8 GD in the process to come ahead of us in a tiebreak. That basically means drawing with City and winning their other five and I don't see them accomplishing that.

Chelsea will need 17 points from seven matches to tie, needing to make up 8 GD as well. That basically means getting at least two points from their away matches at Liverpool and United, then winning everything else, which also seems like a tall order for a club that has been very inconsistent all year and has real potential to fall apart down the stretch.
 

BostonJack42

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I really thought this tie with Napoli was going to be more difficult.

On to Valencia in the semis.
 

Morgan's Magic Snowplow

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Emery really put on a show in this tie. We dominated them at home and then went to Naples with a great tactical gameplan that was executed perfectly. And Napoli is no slouch. They're second in Serie A and coming into the tie had lost only one home game all year across all competitions (and that match was against Juve and involved a Napoli player getting sent off after 25 minutes).
 

JimBoSox9

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Emery really put on a show in this tie. We dominated them at home and then went to Naples with a great tactical gameplan that was executed perfectly. And Napoli is no slouch. They're second in Serie A and coming into the tie had lost only one home game all year across all competitions (and that match was against Juve and involved a Napoli player getting sent off after 25 minutes).
You gotta think his committment to flexibility is part of what appears to be a legitimate knack for winning in the Europa League. It's full of flawed teams with varying styles, all hoping to avoid a certain style of opponent who could blow open their Achilles heels, with less familiarity and scouting/prep time than in League matches. It makes sense that his match-specific approach would play well there, even if it does feel a bit like slinging poo at a brick wall (Watford on the road) or the incoming tide (Man City anywhere).
 

Morgan's Magic Snowplow

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You gotta think his committment to flexibility is part of what appears to be a legitimate knack for winning in the Europa League. It's full of flawed teams with varying styles, all hoping to avoid a certain style of opponent who could blow open their Achilles heels, with less familiarity and scouting/prep time than in League matches. It makes sense that his match-specific approach would play well there, even if it does feel a bit like slinging poo at a brick wall (Watford on the road) or the incoming tide (Man City anywhere).
Yup, agreed. What's particularly impressive is that he has implemented that flexible style with a roster full of broken toys inherited from Wenger. I'm looking forward to seeing what he can do once the roster is molded to his preferences. Of course that will require us actually spending money in the transfer market so we'll see...
 

mikeford

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yeah i'm not holding my breath on him getting the funds to actually mold this team in his image. Do you get big cash from winning Europa?
 

Dernells Casket n Flagon

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yeah i'm not holding my breath on him getting the funds to actually mold this team in his image. Do you get big cash from winning Europa?
Overall money for the winner comes out to about 40M Euros. Winners get 6.5M and runner up gets 3.5M, so that means that Arsenal has already pocketed about 33M Euros for their participation and results of the competition.

Certainly also getting into next year's CL as a result of winning is a boost as well.

For the 2017-2018 season, a winning team from England would get about 90M Euros total, 86M as runner up, 72.3M for semifinals, 64.8M for quarterfinals, 58.3-6 for round of 16, 52.3M for winning their group, and around 45M just for participating.

That's only the prize pool, so I'm not sure how ticket sales revenue hits the clubs.
 

shaggydog2000

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Emery really put on a show in this tie. We dominated them at home and then went to Naples with a great tactical gameplan that was executed perfectly. And Napoli is no slouch. They're second in Serie A and coming into the tie had lost only one home game all year across all competitions (and that match was against Juve and involved a Napoli player getting sent off after 25 minutes).
I think it shows how good the top of the premier league is. The second best team in one of the top 4 leagues in the world is about as good as the 6th in the EPL.

I think this team looks miles better with Koscielny in it. Sokratis has adjusted and become a good second banana, but we need another top defender in his prime (or two) to shore up the back line. The whole team looks better when they do that. I think they can find the money for that. Especially if they make the Champions league.
 

mikeford

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I think it shows how good the top of the premier league is. The second best team in one of the top 4 leagues in the world is about as good as the 6th in the EPL.
The final should be Arsenal v. Chelsea but we'll see what happens.

If we get knocked out by a team with Francis Coquelin and fuckin Gabriel on it... hooo boy
 

swiftaw

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Mustafi is the worst player in England.

Like the entire country, not just the premier league.
Edit: I believe he is the 8th most expensive premier league defender ever (and 6th most expensive center back).
 

shaggydog2000

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They ran out the B squad and hoped it would be enough at home against a mid table team. It wasn't. The EPL is tough, and this squad isn't deep enough for that. You can swap in one or two of these guys and keep rolling against lesser teams, but not 5 or 6. Mustafi, Mavropanos, Elneny, Jenkinson, Gendouzi, that's too much inexperience or mediocrity to overcome. Mustafi by himself is a whole lot of mediocrity to overcome, let alone the rest of them.
 

ifmanis5

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Different day, same results. Amazing, they can't even beat these mid-table teams. They don't deserve a Top 4 finish even though it was all but handed to them.
 

InstaFace

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I don't think I've ever seen someone derive as little joy from their fandom as MikeFord. To his credit, he has worked hard to lament and play up any conceivable slight or imperfection, downplay every success, and definitely not enjoy anything in the moment. It's really between him and TheoShmeo's Cubs fan friend who "couldn't enjoy" the WS title because of their manager or something. Either way it's close.
 

coremiller

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I don't think I've ever seen someone derive as little joy from their fandom as MikeFord. To his credit, he has worked hard to lament and play up any conceivable slight or imperfection, downplay every success, and definitely not enjoy anything in the moment. It's really between him and TheoShmeo's Cubs fan friend who "couldn't enjoy" the WS title because of their manager or something. Either way it's close.
I always assumed it was a schtick. Nobody is that miserable, right?
 

mikeford

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Hey I had a lot of fun when we won the FA cup those 3 recent years but watching this club slowly decay hasn't been fun and I don't know how anyone could say it has been.
 

InstaFace

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I always assumed it was a schtick. Nobody is that miserable, right?
The line between schtick and reality is very tenuous on SoSH, except for true trolls like CoRP, who are thankfully few and far between. Whatever might be said about MikeFord, I think he's sincere.

When Arsenal won the FA Cup, he complained that they were no closer to winning the PL or the CL, and that it was a worthless trophy anyway. I think he compared it to the Community Shield. Nothing I could do but laugh, really. Spends years railing against Arsene Wenger and then the minute he's cashiered, absolutely no change in tone, zero rope given. Like, we've got the posts, we can show receipts. It'd be a hilarious parody... if it were a parody at all.
 

lars10

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The line between schtick and reality is very tenuous on SoSH, except for true trolls like CoRP, who are thankfully few and far between. Whatever might be said about MikeFord, I think he's sincere.

When Arsenal won the FA Cup, he complained that they were no closer to winning the PL or the CL, and that it was a worthless trophy anyway. I think he compared it to the Community Shield. Nothing I could do but laugh, really. Spends years railing against Arsene Wenger and then the minute he's cashiered, absolutely no change in tone, zero rope given. Like, we've got the posts, we can show receipts. It'd be a hilarious parody... if it were a parody at all.
There have been times over the past few years where arsenal have won a few games in a row and Mr. Ford is nowhere to be found for weeks..but as soon as they lost he was immediately the first to comment. It’s a bit understandable with how this team has been, but to never be positive... I wonder why one feels the need to point out flaws all the time.. it’s not like the rest of us can’t see them.
 

mikeford

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When Arsenal won the FA Cup, he complained that they were no closer to winning the PL or the CL, and that it was a worthless trophy anyway. I think he compared it to the Community Shield.
Yeah that did not happen. Go find the receipts if you think they exist.
 

mikeford

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Sp*rs seem REALLY intent on letting Arsenal take Top 4 away from them. Another bottle job by them today and once again the door is ajar for Emery to guide Arsenal through.

Of course we're away again and we play like Huddersfield when we're not at Emirates but its there for the taking anyway.
 

IHateDaveKerpen

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I don't think I've ever seen someone derive as little joy from their fandom as MikeFord. To his credit, he has worked hard to lament and play up any conceivable slight or imperfection, downplay every success, and definitely not enjoy anything in the moment. It's really between him and TheoShmeo's Cubs fan friend who "couldn't enjoy" the WS title because of their manager or something. Either way it's close.
You should check out his posts in the pro wrestling thread sometime.
 

shaggydog2000

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They're 2 point out of the top 4 with only Burnley and Brighton & Hove to go. I think it's pretty do-able, if not a shoo-in.
 

ConigliarosPotential

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That was a very weird match tonight. Arsenal looked so frail for 15 minutes and deservedly went behind...and then Valencia hit the off switch for long enough for Lacazette to score twice. And then Arsenal looked composed, and Lacazette should have gotten his hat trick goal at least twice, and then Aubameyang scored at the death to give the scoreline the gloss it probably deserved from Arsenal's perspective, or perhaps more correctly from Valencia's perspective.

Now, if getting into the Champions League for next season is crucial to Arsenal's ambitions (more revenue, better class of player attracted to the club, etc.), and winning the Europa League not only does that but would give Arsenal it's first European trophy in 25 years, shouldn't the first-choice keeper be playing every minute of every match at this point? Cech is enough of a drop-off from Leno for this to potentially be an issue, isn't he? I know Wenger did this in FA Cup runs including the Finals, and I get the logic behind letting your backup keeper stay match-sharp in less important games against lesser opposition, but this seems an order of magnitude more important than all of that.
 

67YAZ

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Now, if getting into the Champions League for next season is crucial to Arsenal's ambitions (more revenue, better class of player attracted to the club, etc.), and winning the Europa League not only does that but would give Arsenal it's first European trophy in 25 years, shouldn't the first-choice keeper be playing every minute of every match at this point? Cech is enough of a drop-off from Leno for this to potentially be an issue, isn't he? I know Wenger did this in FA Cup runs including the Finals, and I get the logic behind letting your backup keeper stay match-sharp in less important games against lesser opposition, but this seems an order of magnitude more important than all of that.
Came across an interesting stat - Leno & Begovic are tied in the EPL for errors leading directly to goals with 5 a piece. Could be Emery prefers more sure hands in goal as the pressure mounts?
 

InstaFace

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With De Gea impossibly right behind them with 4.

What does Leno do so much better than Cech that you'd want to consider this, other than him "being the first-choice keeper"? I've always thought very highly of Cech's lightning-fast reaction time and his distribution.
 

ConigliarosPotential

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What does Leno do so much better than Cech that you'd want to consider this, other than him "being the first-choice keeper"? I've always thought very highly of Cech's lightning-fast reaction time and his distribution.
I haven't seen enough of Leno to be able to comment authoritatively on his skills relative to Cech, to be honest...but yes, the principle of "being the first-choice keeper" counts for me. Goalkeeper is not a position where fitness levels matter, injuries notwithstanding; if Leno is the #1, he should be #1 in all competitions, shouldn't he? If Cech was picked because of specific skills he's thought to have in European play or against Valencia specifically, or if Emery thinks he and Leno are basically even and he's equally comfortable with either, I have no problem with last night's decision. But if Cech was picked because "he's the Europa League keeper", or because he's being rewarded for his services to the club with the going-away present, then I certainly would have a problem that.
 

shaggydog2000

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With De Gea impossibly right behind them with 4.
It may have more to do with how often those three are playing the ball rather than kicking it deep. An equal or lower percentage of mistakes on a much higher number of chances. I think Leno has been great after an early period of adjustment.
 

InstaFace

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well in De Gea's case, I've seen 2 or 3 of those errors and they were cover-your-eyes-grade failures to stop a ball that he was in front of, either going over his arm, under his body, etc. The kind of stuff that makes you wince whether you're rooting for him or not.
 

lars10

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I haven't seen enough of Leno to be able to comment authoritatively on his skills relative to Cech, to be honest...but yes, the principle of "being the first-choice keeper" counts for me. Goalkeeper is not a position where fitness levels matter, injuries notwithstanding; if Leno is the #1, he should be #1 in all competitions, shouldn't he? If Cech was picked because of specific skills he's thought to have in European play or against Valencia specifically, or if Emery thinks he and Leno are basically even and he's equally comfortable with either, I have no problem with last night's decision. But if Cech was picked because "he's the Europa League keeper", or because he's being rewarded for his services to the club with the going-away present, then I certainly would have a problem that.
I’ve seen this a lot with Arsenal since wenger did it all the time, but I suspect other clubs do it as well. Keepers need rest too and every game exposes them to potential injury.
 

wonderland

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Manchester United player Sergio Romero in the Europa League final in 2017 despite DeGea. Romero was on the team as insurance in case DeGea left so they probably had to entice him with something to get him to sign. United need to win that game to get a CL spot.

I would guess Arsenal wanted to keep Cech around Leno struggled. They had to offer him cup games as an incentive.
 

mikeford

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Honestly I don't see a tremendous amount of daylight between the two keepers so I'd probably just take whoever is in form.

Emery is clearly going with Cech for these matches though. Cech said his dream was to lift a trophy in his last match so...
 

lars10

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Honestly I don't see a tremendous amount of daylight between the two keepers so I'd probably just take whoever is in form.

Emery is clearly going with Cech for these matches though. Cech said his dream was to lift a trophy in his last match so...
Yeah.. not sure what Cech did to be relegated to second.. probably just that Leno is the future for now.. Emery has made a number of stubborn will-imposing decisions for better or worse and this is one of them down the list.