Arsenal 2013-2014: Insufferable & Unsuccessful -- And Worse than Chelsea
- Thread starter sachmoney
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Three thought experiments for you:
1) If Arsenal wins their final six games of the league season - massively unlikely, I know, but bear with me - do they still have a shot at the title? They would need Liverpool to drop 8 points from 6 matches, Chelsea to drop 6 points from 6 matches, and Man City to drop 10 points from 8 matches. (Liverpool hosts both Man City and Chelsea before the season is done, so some of these points will drop themselves; in fairness, this is really less a question about Arsenal and more about the three teams above them.)
2) Related to question 1: how likely do you think it is that Arsenal passes at least one those teams and finishes in third to avoid CL qualifying next year?
2) If Arsene Wenger were retire at the end of the season, how high (or low) on the list of potential replacements would you put Roberto Martinez?
1) If Arsenal wins their final six games of the league season - massively unlikely, I know, but bear with me - do they still have a shot at the title? They would need Liverpool to drop 8 points from 6 matches, Chelsea to drop 6 points from 6 matches, and Man City to drop 10 points from 8 matches. (Liverpool hosts both Man City and Chelsea before the season is done, so some of these points will drop themselves; in fairness, this is really less a question about Arsenal and more about the three teams above them.)
2) Related to question 1: how likely do you think it is that Arsenal passes at least one those teams and finishes in third to avoid CL qualifying next year?
2) If Arsene Wenger were retire at the end of the season, how high (or low) on the list of potential replacements would you put Roberto Martinez?
The title is gone dude.
The sad thing is that, even with the pasting at Chelsea and only drawing City at home, they would have had a real shot if they had just beat Stoke away and Swansea at the Emirates.
For better or worse, I don't see Wenger retiring either, even if we lose the FA Cup.
The sad thing is that, even with the pasting at Chelsea and only drawing City at home, they would have had a real shot if they had just beat Stoke away and Swansea at the Emirates.
For better or worse, I don't see Wenger retiring either, even if we lose the FA Cup.
Can't believe I woke up for this farce. Everton with tons of space and hammering at will. It's a shooting gallery so far.
They suck , Giroud is so useless. The thought that winning the FA Cup, will give them an excuse to stand pat.
What an insipid performance. The utter lack of creativity in attack bothers me more than the defensive errors - how many times can you cross or shoot the ball from distance into a defender's midriff in a single match? Is this what we bought Santi Cazorla for?
I work until 2am on Friday and Saturday, but I get up and watch all these games, this last month fucking sucks. This is a 2013 Red Sox like collapse.
I'd love it if you guys grabbed Martinez. I'd be afraid of your side again, but at least it keeps him off the board when Man U give Moyes the heave-ho.
mikeford said:
C'mon, really? You think it's Stan Kroenke's fault that Arsenal has faded so badly in the second half of the season?
Even during bad points over the last few years, there's been pride. I don't see pride here. I don't know what's happened. I don't know what to say. It's sad.
mikeford said:
There aren't a dozen clubs in the world with a better squad than Arsenal's.
Definites:
Chelsea
Manchester City
Bayern
PSG
Barcelona
Real Madrid
Atletico Madrid
Maybes:
Liverpool
Manchester United
Dortmund
Juventus
Monaco (after they spend big again this summer)
And they've spent big to improve the squad when they identified talent. The negotiations have been botched at times, and the tactics are often screwy, and the man-management looks like it's pretty poor, but Kroenke looks like he's willing to play the game. He just has to get better at it. I wouldn't judge him too harshly until we see what happens with Wenger's eventual replacement.
Looking at the schedules, I really don't see a way for Everton to grab fourth. As poor as Arsenal's form against good teams, it's hard to see them dropping too many more points from here on out. Yes, it will be uncomfortable at times, and today was an enormous day for Everton, but it really is hard to envision Everton with more than 14 points coming home. I think Arsenal will do what they did last year -- just enough.
Arsenal are up 1 point, with Everton having a game in hand and a +5 bonus in Goal Differential.
Arsenal: West Ham, @Hull, Newcastle, West Brom, @Norwich
Everton: @Sunderland, Crystal Palace, ManUnited, @Southampton, Man City, @Hull
Guess I'd agree Arsenal have an easier end of the season, but their current form doesn't scream we are taking maximum points. Looks like the two Manchester games for Everton are going to play a massive role in the final table.
If you think Arsenal will go 4-0-1 down the stretch they'll end up with 77 points, that would mean Everton would need to go 4-0-2/5-1-0, would have to beat one of the Manchester sides or draw them both. I'd make Arsenal the favorites for the 4th spot, but its far from comfortable.
Arsenal: West Ham, @Hull, Newcastle, West Brom, @Norwich
Everton: @Sunderland, Crystal Palace, ManUnited, @Southampton, Man City, @Hull
Guess I'd agree Arsenal have an easier end of the season, but their current form doesn't scream we are taking maximum points. Looks like the two Manchester games for Everton are going to play a massive role in the final table.
If you think Arsenal will go 4-0-1 down the stretch they'll end up with 77 points, that would mean Everton would need to go 4-0-2/5-1-0, would have to beat one of the Manchester sides or draw them both. I'd make Arsenal the favorites for the 4th spot, but its far from comfortable.
I'm not talking about one season.ConigliarosPotential said:
This is a long systemic fall from grace for this club and it starts with him.
Other than Ozil, they really haven't. At least in terms of the transfer market, Liverpool has spent far more in the Kroenke era than Arsenal, nevermind United, Chelsea, and City. Arsenal has probably spent more than Liverpool on wages, mainly because they've needed a deeper side, but they've also never been a team to splash the cash at the high end of the wage scale in order to attract or keep top talent.DLew On Roids said:
I don't think Kroenke is the problem - at least, under the assumption that an owner who wants to at least break even isn't a "problem" per se - so much as the longer term financial trajectory of the club. Financing the Emirates was essentially crippling, both in terms of the debt service and in terms of inducing the club to sign some very front-loaded sponsorship deals that were long term losers. The irony here is that Arsenal are just now getting out from under all that and are in a stronger financial position than they've ever seen. The future is actually very bright at Arsenal from a business and finances perspective. The question is really whether Wenger is the guy to lead the squad into that future.
A big part of what's happened is that the team has been without Walcott, Ramsey, Ozil, Wilshere, and now Kos and Gibbs.sachmoney said:
But the away performances against top sides are just indefensible and some of those have come with the squad closer to full strength. I don't know if its pride or what but a club like Arsenal should not just get regularly blasted whenever it travels to another big club's ground. It speaks to some really fundamental issues with tactics and man management and Wenger has to own that.
And then there's the Giroud issue, which Wenger has to own as well.
What a disgrace. The owner doesn't care. The Hall of Fame manager has no ambition. They might not qualify for a 17th consecutive Champions League appearance. They don't have enough depth to field two full starting elevens of world class quality. For shame.
#firstworldarsenalproblems
#firstworldarsenalproblems
This. He's a dead goat out there. Too slow.Luis Taint said:
This. I think our relatively easy schedule going forward will save us in the end.DennyDoyle'sBoil said:
This. Cannot ignore that a chunk of our best players are on the DL.Morgan's Magic Snowplow said:
Arteta at age 32 is probably just out of gas. Arsenal have played 17 matches in 2014 and Arteta has started every single one, going the full 90 14 times. The Everton match was his and Arsenal's 7th game in 30 days.
Wenger has to own responsibility for the lack of squad rotation. When you repeatedly flog the same dead horses - that includes Giroud, Arteta, the Koscielny/Mertesacker partnership, and Sagna to some extent - because you think you lack credible alternatives, even in domestic cup matches where you really should be willing to experiment more (or in nearly-dead ties like the second leg vs. Bayern Munich), that partly showcases a lack of squad depth but also partly shows a lack of competence in managing the depth of the squad that does exist. I mean, why can't Flamini occasionally play the main holding role on his own along side the likes of Oxlade-Chamberlain and let Arteta get some rest? Why didn't Bendtner get more starts in the first half of the season, both to keep Bendtner engaged with the squad and with a view to keeping Giroud fitter in March-April-May?
I was listening to the Football Weekly podcast on my way to work this morning, and for the first time I'm beginning to think that Wenger really might be done at the end of the season. I doubt he'd get sacked, but he might feel it's the right time to walk away, especially if (please God...) Arsenal wins the FA Cup and he can go out on something of a high like Ferguson did last year. Too many supporters would happily accept change for change's sake and risk two birds in the bush for the bird we have in the hand.
I was listening to the Football Weekly podcast on my way to work this morning, and for the first time I'm beginning to think that Wenger really might be done at the end of the season. I doubt he'd get sacked, but he might feel it's the right time to walk away, especially if (please God...) Arsenal wins the FA Cup and he can go out on something of a high like Ferguson did last year. Too many supporters would happily accept change for change's sake and risk two birds in the bush for the bird we have in the hand.
Well, tomorrow is probably the last game of the Arsenal season that anyone's gonna give a shit about unless we win.
Try not to fuck it up, eh boys?
Try not to fuck it up, eh boys?
West Ham have scored first against Arsenal in 4 straight games.
They have gone on to lose all of them (assuming they don't come back today).
They have gone on to lose all of them (assuming they don't come back today).
I wouldn't be surprised if Everton drew at home to a well-organised Palace tomorrow, and then they're home to Man Utd, away to Southampton and home to Man City - all games where points can easily be dropped. (Hull in the final game of the season should be an absolute lock for three points, with Hull looking forward to the FA Cup final.) There's a lot of pressure on Everton now, and they didn't exactly cruise past Sunderland last weekend. I'd actually be surprised if Arsenal wins all four of its remaining league matches, although presumably Ramsey will be ready to start the next match (and Oezil will be back soon as well), which is absolutely huge. But I think they can probably afford at least one draw and still sneak into fourth.
That said, I thought the first 70 minutes of the Wigan match were utterly abominable, and most of the first half tonight wasn't much better - I'm now firmly hoping that Wenger gets his final trophy, keeps the team in the Champions League and rides off into the sunset.
That said, I thought the first 70 minutes of the Wigan match were utterly abominable, and most of the first half tonight wasn't much better - I'm now firmly hoping that Wenger gets his final trophy, keeps the team in the Champions League and rides off into the sunset.
By the way, it's entirely possible that Arsenal might tie or pass Everton on goal difference before the end of the season, even if both teams finish level on points. Even in mgoblue2's above scenario, where Everton somehow closes with four wins and a draw, they're not likely to win any of those matches by multiple goals, whereas Arsenal could easily win all of their matches by multiple goals or thrash someone by four or five goals. (A tie on goal difference is likely to be resolved in Arsenal's favor as well, as Arsenal has currently scored six more goals than Everton.)
Either my drinking is worse than I fear or the board ate my post in here. Either way, a deletion-by-crash of my very polite, couched in "yess massa" prodding of Arsenal fans wot claim Hull City Tigers(TM) are inferior to Wigan is something for which I simply will not stand. You are almost certainly not going down in the FA Cup final, but I reserve the right to post a picture of my todger if you do.
Ozil won the 2009 DFB-Pokal with Werder Bremen (scoring the match winning goal) and the 2011 Copa del Rey with Real Madrid. He also won the 2009 U21 European Championship with Germany.
I'm not doing anything this morning so I tried looking up the rest of Arsenal, and your larger point stands, there's very little cup final experience: Bacary Sagna won the 2005 Coupe de France with Auxerre, Lukas Podolski won the 2008 DFB-Pokal with Bayern Munich (coming on as a sub), and that Arsenal legend Kim Kallstrom won the 2008 and 2012 Coupe de France with Lyon. Mertesacker won the '09 DFB-Pokal with Ozil, but did not play in the match.
mikeford said:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mesut_%C3%96zil
[...]Fresh off his fallout at Schalke 04, he stepped into the shoes of Brazilian playmaker Diego to help lead the north German club to the 2009 DFB-Pokal with the winning goal in a 1–0 victory over Bayer Leverkusen in Berlin.[14]
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