Try to ignore the potential rumored offers that the Patriots supposedly received all off season. After week 8 going into the bye, the Patriots have traded Jimmy to the 49ers for a second round pick.
Are you happy?
Are you happy?
Are you Happy with the Jimmy Garoppolo Trade?
- Thread starter Time to Mo Vaughn
- Start date
Voted “No” not so much because it doesn’t make sense. Certainly sounds like they maximized the return (on learning first rounders actually we’re never part of the equation in April), and it doesn’t really make any sense to pay Jimmy franchise money in 2018. And while I’d prefer help for the 2017 squad, I’m not sure the cap allows them to add a difference maker.
I voted “No” because I loved the idea of having Jimmy G holding that clipboard. And now I don’t have it.
But on the flip, TB12 really isn’t retiring. And that’s way more good than bad.
I voted “No” because I loved the idea of having Jimmy G holding that clipboard. And now I don’t have it.
But on the flip, TB12 really isn’t retiring. And that’s way more good than bad.
Voted no. Can't help but feel that the deal is incomplete, like there is something else about to happen as the deadline nears. I won't rehash the rumored offers of the past, but it still seems that at THIS point of the season JG should have been worth more than what was received. Perhaps there was more going on with JG behind the scenes that we are privy to. Perhaps the landing spot (out of conference and a team that looks to be a non Super Bowl contender any time soon) and the fact that it will be a high 2nd round pick played into things, but IMO the Patriots have some pressing needs NOW. Perhaps that pick and others get bundled for a bigger piece (pieces) today. If not, I guess we'll be looking to bring in some outcasts and reclamation projects to get through this year. Oh yeah....and a back up quarterback. Going to need one of those.
As I mentioned in the other thread, if Jimmy had been an un-drafted player, then sure, this is a something-for-nothing deal and you hope Hoyer can hold the clipboard with zest. But it all makes the use of the pick in 14 seem like a waste if it only gets you the same pick in 18.
This trade was a slam-dunk for the Pats. A pick that is basically guaranteed to be 33-35 for a player that is not going to contribute in any meaningful way for the Patriots at any point in time except for a circumstance where Tom Brady is incapacitated for a very long period of time (as in into the 2018 season). JG was not likely leading the Pats through the playoffs to a SB victory this season. Sure, he could win you a few regular season games, but at the end of it all the Pats are very likely going to be the 1/2 seed and need to win one game at Foxboro, another either at home or away and then the SB regardless of whether JG wins a couple of those reg season games or not.
I don't get the "incomplete" bit. The Patriots need to plan for today as well as tomorrow, so it's not an either/or statement. If they were presented with some other offer that included a shorter-term asset that addressed an area of need, fine, but short of that there's no problem with using this likely-to-be-unused resource for the longer-term goals.
I don't get the "incomplete" bit. The Patriots need to plan for today as well as tomorrow, so it's not an either/or statement. If they were presented with some other offer that included a shorter-term asset that addressed an area of need, fine, but short of that there's no problem with using this likely-to-be-unused resource for the longer-term goals.
I mean, how can you ignore that you had a backup QB for that time? It's like you bought a house for $500k in 2014 and then you sold it for $550k in 2018. You basically got paid to live there for 3 1/2 years. How is that not a good thing?
Too early to judge for me.
if they spin that deal today for an asset for 2017, I will judge (and likely favorably). If they just hold the pick, its going to remain a TBD until that date.
if they spin that deal today for an asset for 2017, I will judge (and likely favorably). If they just hold the pick, its going to remain a TBD until that date.
What doesn't make sense is (a) hanging on to him in the pre-season, and (b) trading Brissett, thus leaving the cupboard bare. It was pretty clear that Jimmy wasn't going to sign on as a long-term backup, and inadequate consideration was given to that fact. But this trade today, in isolation, I like because they were going to lose him soon and they might as well get something for him.
I love it. As others have said might as well get something for him while you still can, and that high of a second is pretty valuable. He was gone at the end of the year and the season's lost if Brady goes down regardless. Seems like a no-brainer BB move.
Ambivalent. I'm waiting for the other cleat to drop.
Realistically i knew that having Brady and JG forever was not going to happen, and BB wasn't going to pay JG $25MM per tp be clipboard guy.
So BB chose at the last moment and made the deal he could make.
Realistically i knew that having Brady and JG forever was not going to happen, and BB wasn't going to pay JG $25MM per tp be clipboard guy.
So BB chose at the last moment and made the deal he could make.
As noted up thread the Brisset trade here is the head scratcher. Pretty clear Phillip Dorsett is not going to make an impact at WR for NEP and Brisset would have been by far the best backup option NEP would have if they had any intention to trade Jimmy.
Getting a high 2nd for 8 games of Jimmy is excellent value IMO. Just wish we had the Brisset saftey blanket right now. Especially after they invested so much in him a year ago.
Getting a high 2nd for 8 games of Jimmy is excellent value IMO. Just wish we had the Brisset saftey blanket right now. Especially after they invested so much in him a year ago.
Manish thinks Jets fans should be happy! And that means so is this Patriots fan!
Jets should be overjoyed after Bill Belichick makes huge blunder by trading away Jimmy Garoppolo:
http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/football/jets/jets-overjoyed-belichick-jimmy-garoppolo-blunder-article-1.3601505
Jets should be overjoyed after Bill Belichick makes huge blunder by trading away Jimmy Garoppolo:
http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/football/jets/jets-overjoyed-belichick-jimmy-garoppolo-blunder-article-1.3601505
The fact that he ends the article with the Jets need to find their own Jimmy G instead of their own Tom Brady tells me all I need to know about the state of the Jets' franchise.
Also, the idea that he thought a 34-36 year old Jimmy G would still be owning the division shows a tremendous lack of faith in the team he covers.
Edit - I am sure he used Jimmy G instead of TB12 as he may acknowledge that TB12 is one of a kind, but if a team is going to dream it should dream big.
Apparently Jimmy was out of their price range and dying for a chance to be the starter somwhere, so getting a high second rounder back before he becomes a free agent seems like a pretty solid deal to me. It was worth hanging on to see if he was amenable to signing an extension and sitting on the bench for 2/3 more years, but if that wasn't a clear possibility, trading him was the right move.
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I voted "yes". The way I read the question, it has nothing to do with what the NEP should or shouldn't have done in the past, or comparing his return to his acquisition cost, or the value of the insurance he provided. I read it as: since no-one can change what has or hasn't happened in the past, going forward from right now, would you rather the NEP have JG under his current contract or the 2018 SF 2nd round pick?
I prefer the latter. As I mentioned elsewhere, I do not think this NE team is playing well enough to win a SB with JG at QB, so my order of preference is: (1) NE trades JG for SF's 2nd round pick, TB stays healthy, and NE wins SB LII; (2) NE trades JG for SF's 2nd round pick, TB stays healthy, but NE does not win SB LII; (3) NE trades JG for SF's 2nd round pick, TB gets hurt and someone like Hoyer rides out the season - because I don't think "NE keeps JG, TB gets hurt, JG leads NE to win SB LII" is an option.
edit: I didn't consider extending or re-signing JG, so I should add that I don't think that was likely to happen.
edit2: I also didn't address the option: "Trade JG for something more valuable than SF's 2018 2nd round pick" because it seems that also was not an option.
I prefer the latter. As I mentioned elsewhere, I do not think this NE team is playing well enough to win a SB with JG at QB, so my order of preference is: (1) NE trades JG for SF's 2nd round pick, TB stays healthy, and NE wins SB LII; (2) NE trades JG for SF's 2nd round pick, TB stays healthy, but NE does not win SB LII; (3) NE trades JG for SF's 2nd round pick, TB gets hurt and someone like Hoyer rides out the season - because I don't think "NE keeps JG, TB gets hurt, JG leads NE to win SB LII" is an option.
edit: I didn't consider extending or re-signing JG, so I should add that I don't think that was likely to happen.
edit2: I also didn't address the option: "Trade JG for something more valuable than SF's 2018 2nd round pick" because it seems that also was not an option.
Let me try to clean up the use of the word "incomplete". It feels as though there has to be another piece to this, a companion trade if you will. You're spot on in saying the Pats have to plan for today as well as tomorrow and I understand that JG's place in this organisation may never become what we thought it might be a couple of years ago. I get that you move chips when you can and try to sell as high as you possibly can, but it's all good until Brady gets hurt and there is now an undeniable void at back up QB. That's why I feel this deal is incomplete. I don't think BB looks solely to the future at the possible expense to the present, I don't think he leaves this glaring void unless there is something else in the works to improve the current roster as well.
I want to wait to see how it all shakes out, but this isn't the same pick. The Pats routinely pick in the last 4 of each round (barring trades). This SF pick will be at the top of the round. That's a potential improvement of 28-30 picks. That's enormous.
Not all second round picks are the same.
This is basically the best possible outcome for using a pick on a backup QB. You get several years of good backup play including a few important wins in a superbowl season, and then at the last possible minute trade that guy - who barely got to showcase anything - for a high value pick in the next draft.
The Pats have been able to do that several times. I am struggling to think of other times it has happened.
The timing is odd because it leaves the Pats with no obvious backup at a time in Brady's career where history says he is likely to be more fragile and also likely to start a precipitous decline at some point soon. But it's hard to argue with the process otherwise.
The pick gave them legit backup play when they needed it and got cashed in for a high value in pick a future draft. Except for the idea that they could have had some godfather offer from the Browns that was never happening, this is excellent GMing.
The Pats have been able to do that several times. I am struggling to think of other times it has happened.
The timing is odd because it leaves the Pats with no obvious backup at a time in Brady's career where history says he is likely to be more fragile and also likely to start a precipitous decline at some point soon. But it's hard to argue with the process otherwise.
The pick gave them legit backup play when they needed it and got cashed in for a high value in pick a future draft. Except for the idea that they could have had some godfather offer from the Browns that was never happening, this is excellent GMing.
Sure, just as soon as we start adding "I know shit compared to Dave Dombrowski, so fuck it" to Red Sox trade polls.
It's crazy how many times the Pats have traded a backup QB, and drafted another guy who we all think might be the next starter, only to trade that guy too, because Brady is still kicking. With Brady at 40, they'll probably draft a QB in the next draft; it can't possibly happen again, can it? It would border surrealism if we traded another backup because 43 yr-old Brady is still great.
Isn't there also the non-zero chance (stress on non-zero) that Garoppolo just ends up as an ok, but nothing great QB?
I get that he played 1 and 1/2 dominant games of football but he also had the best coaching staff and system on the planet along with a few years of practice with the greatest QB of all time.
I get that he played 1 and 1/2 dominant games of football but he also had the best coaching staff and system on the planet along with a few years of practice with the greatest QB of all time.
Right, I mean what if he shits the bed over the last two months of the season - it might scare the Niners away from signing him. We have no idea.
I do wonder what Niners fans think of this. They were clearly headed toward a top 3-4 pick in a draft that supposedly has several very good QB prospects. While Jimmy is a more known quantity, the flip side is that an incoming rookie QB would cost a hell of a lot less than Jimmy. So now the Niners will have Jimmy at ~$20-25M per year plus a non-QB rookie player drafted in the top 5, as opposed to a rookie QB playing at ~$5M per year plus the 33-36th pick or whatever.
My gut reaction is "No", because this team is one of the five best in the NFL, and just moved a huge asset for nothing in 2017.
But overall, it's hard to really get a sense of what the value was because we don't know what offers were out there last spring and we don't really have any idea how good this guy can be.
Has there been a definitive answer as to why they didn't wait and franchise tag him, then trade him in the offseason? I read today that they would be taking the risk that there was no market for him and they got stuck with a lot of money tied up in a backup QB, but that risk seems close to zero from here. It seems to me the worst case in terms of his market would be something like getting a lower second round pick for him (but having him through this year's playoffs as a backup). If there are still two teams in the Jimmy G market come March (and it seems certain there would be), I can't imagine the price being lower than that.
Are they in desperate need of the franchise tag at another position this year?
edit: And what if San Francisco plays him for a few weeks this year, he looks good, and they turn around and franchise him then trade him for a higher pick? That's not impossible, right?
But overall, it's hard to really get a sense of what the value was because we don't know what offers were out there last spring and we don't really have any idea how good this guy can be.
Has there been a definitive answer as to why they didn't wait and franchise tag him, then trade him in the offseason? I read today that they would be taking the risk that there was no market for him and they got stuck with a lot of money tied up in a backup QB, but that risk seems close to zero from here. It seems to me the worst case in terms of his market would be something like getting a lower second round pick for him (but having him through this year's playoffs as a backup). If there are still two teams in the Jimmy G market come March (and it seems certain there would be), I can't imagine the price being lower than that.
Are they in desperate need of the franchise tag at another position this year?
edit: And what if San Francisco plays him for a few weeks this year, he looks good, and they turn around and franchise him then trade him for a higher pick? That's not impossible, right?
Impossible? No. But it seems totally nonsensical. The Patriots are not in a position to give Jimmy G any game time. SF is. If they give him game time and find out he's almost certainly worth a round one pick to another team, why would they not just keep him as the franchise quarterback? They have a bunch of space to sign him, a serious need at the position, and will have already given up a second round pick as part of the deal. The marginal value seems crazy low for SF in the case that he performs well as a QB in 2017.
That's true, they have a pretty desperate need and won't play around if he looks good.
All the circumstances seem to suggest that the Pats need the franchise tag for Butler, right?
I was referring to your use of BB (in my post) being implicitly equivalent to DD (in yours).
Yeah the Pats A) didn't want to artificially tie up $25M of their cap during free agency by franchising JG and B) could now use it on Butler or Solder
It feels like we could have gotten more but I felt that way about the Celtics trading out of the one spot and as it turned out maybe that wasn't the case. Mostly I'm happy JG gets to play.
If the best offer last spring was the Browns offering a 2nd and 3rd round pick, then I think the Pats did the right thing in holding onto him and trading him last night. I posted this in the other thread but it kind of reminds me of the Manny trade in 2008. Sucks that it had to happen, but given the circumstances, they did the best they could.
And most importantly, this means the Pats believe that Tom Fucking Brady is going to be their starting QB for the next 2+ years. I for one am going to enjoy every second of that.
And most importantly, this means the Pats believe that Tom Fucking Brady is going to be their starting QB for the next 2+ years. I for one am going to enjoy every second of that.
I voted "yes" but I'm less "happy" with the trade and more "fine" with it. I think it was a good return on 8 games of a guy with very little track record (and I'm skeptical they would have gotten much more in the offseason), but I have some concerns about the backup spot and future of the position now. I wasn't a huge fan of the Brissett deal and it looks worse now. Even if Jacoby doesn't have ideal processing speed or accuracy for a Pats QB, he looks like at least a competent backup for cheap and now they need to replace him.
I mean, I wish that Jimmy G were still the Pats backup, but the reality of the situation is that we weren't going to keep him, and at least we got 8 games out of him this season. The return is pretty good, and I'm glad that we will finally get a chance to see what he can do with a starting gig. The league salary rules are what they are, teams just can't pay that much for a backup that the market thinks deserves a chance to start, even if only a few teams are interested in taking that chance. I think that now is the perfect time to trade him, with the bye week to get someone new up to speed, and it's late enough in the season that if Brady gets hurt they aren't likely to try to rush him back anyhow (so basically a punt), but still earlier enough for a team to get value out of JG, and hence make a good offer for him. I want it to be one way, but it's the other way.
In a vacuum. But who is their backup? What if Brady gets injured? More importantly, what is the plan B to Brady now, do they draft a guy with this very pick?
I don't hate it but I'm not sure I care about a 2nd round pick. If Brady goes down they're not just screwed this year, they're screwed for the forseable future.
I don't hate it but I'm not sure I care about a 2nd round pick. If Brady goes down they're not just screwed this year, they're screwed for the forseable future.
Im leaning no now. We effectively handled this deadline like sellers as opposed to buyers. If we had managed to leverage these assets to fill one of the holes on the front 7 or among the WR corps, Id be more inclined to say yes.
The "stating the obvious" part of the post: if Brady stays healthy this year and that pick gets them a valuable player, it's great; if Brady gets hurt and the backup sucks - and especially if the pick turns into a bust - it's awful. There's some in-between of those, but in general, whichever way it works out, I think it's a good gamble.
I voted no because I think Belichick's true goal was to have Jimmy G be the next in the Patriots amazing run of strong QB play dating all the way back to Bledsoe in 1993. I truly think he hoped the Jimmy G situation was going to turn out as perfectly as Aaron Rodgers turned out for the Packers. However, Brady continued to play like the best QB in the league and Garoppolo decided he was sick and tired of waiting for his turn.
Unlike other situations, this doesn't strike me as Belichick maximizing an asset or doing what was best for the team. This deal strikes me as Belichick admitting defeat and making the best of the situation.
Unlike other situations, this doesn't strike me as Belichick maximizing an asset or doing what was best for the team. This deal strikes me as Belichick admitting defeat and making the best of the situation.
Isn't "making the best of the situation" part of "maximizing an asset" and "doing what was best for the team?" Sometimes you play your cards perfectly and get a huge score and sometimes you get in a situation where the best play is to be smart and cut your losses. To me this is one of Belichick's underrated strengths, knowing when to take a pretty good deal and not letting the perfect be the enemy of the good.
I think the deal is good. The NFL has changed and many more rookies are finding success in year 1-2. Brady is the best QB in the game still and I have few doubts he will be elite for more years to come. In the meanwhile, the Patriots can draft a QB to groom for when they really need Tom's successor, which they don't need now.
Whoever replaces Brady is probably not gonna be one or the handful of good QBs that makes a team a contender by themselves. Thats probably true even if Jimmy was the successor, but trying to get a quarterback without a high first round pick is hard. I hope for Russ Wilson or Dak, but the realistic median expectation is probably someone as effective as Andy Dalton or Tyrod Taylor. I think there are plenty of ways to acquire that sort of player for a reasonable price if a team does the difficult job of evaluating a non-starting QB correctly.
I am a bit disappointed that there is currently no clear post-Brady plan, but I can’t be too disappointed. Jimmy was not going to sign an extension to sit while TB12 finishes his career. Jimmy might have two big contracts left before he declines. He needs to get paid and prove he’s worthy of an age 30 big money extension to set himself up for retirement. This is what BB was negotiating with/against: Jimmy’s need to go out and prove himself and maximize his potential. I also think that deep down BB would have less respect for someone who was content to ride the pine. Jimmy never made an issue of playing behind Tom, did things the “Patriot Way” and was an important part of the team. The Patriots got decent value for him, nearly a first round pick. That’s not bad. Disappointed that he’s not the QB of the future, but not unhappy with the value of the trade.
Unless he is completely incompetent with money or just is flat out awful in his short audition, Jimmy will have more cash than he could ever spend in 6 months.
Okay, so, it seems like...
Let's go, Browns! (Biggest competition for that 33/34 slot.)
Let's go, Colts! (Come on, Jacoby!)
Let's go, Giants! (I expect they'll win enough games that "our" 2nd rounder is safe.)
Let's go, Browns! (Biggest competition for that 33/34 slot.)
Let's go, Colts! (Come on, Jacoby!)
Let's go, Giants! (I expect they'll win enough games that "our" 2nd rounder is safe.)
Am I happy with it? My answer is "Yes", based on the following guesses. Before the season, BB and his staff figured that they had a team which stood a good chance of going all the way in 2017, with Garappolo as backup QB. Now, eight games into the season, after a number of injuries to important parts of the team, BB and his staff have decided that the team is missing too many parts to have a good shot.
So, the Patriots are trading Garappolo to get those parts.
Given the short time left in Brady's career, I find this a good decision. The team is not afraid to reconsider its position as the facts on the ground change.
[edit after realizing that the trade deadline has passed with no move from the Patriots]
Slightly less happy now, but the reasoning holds for the 2018 season, in a slightly weaker form.
So, the Patriots are trading Garappolo to get those parts.
Given the short time left in Brady's career, I find this a good decision. The team is not afraid to reconsider its position as the facts on the ground change.
[edit after realizing that the trade deadline has passed with no move from the Patriots]
Slightly less happy now, but the reasoning holds for the 2018 season, in a slightly weaker form.
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