Are the Pats the worst team in the NFL?

Oct 12, 2023
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Don't look now, but the Patriots have 3-4 more games where they actually have a chance to win:

Titans
Colts
Dolphins
Cardinals (?)

I do not watch nearly as much NFL as other people here. To me it looks like the Browns got a little better by losing Watson and having Winston at QB. New Orleans is cratering, and Carolina is Carolina. The Patriots may end up with the exact same record as 3 or 4 other teams, but I am hoping that their worst football is behind them and the arrow will be pointing up even with another dismal record.
winning 2-3 more seems likely, if Maye plays. Their schedule looks soft on paper. Other the two Buffalo games (and they might be resting guys at the end), the rest of the games are 60/40 at worst.

Probably headed for a 5-12 year with the 6th overall pick or something like that
 

quint

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a really good source
7 teams, almost half the conference, in the AFC with 2 or fewer wins. And 3 in the division. There's lots of bad teams, so we get to play each other plenty.
Except New England is one of the three and they’ve finished the Jets portion while losing to Miami when the Dolphins were fielding a quarterback who doesn’t belong in the league.
 

Steve Dillard

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Back to having the #1 draft pick.
Pick Team Record Win% GB SOS Streak
1 New England 2-7 .222 -- .471 Lost 1
2 New Orleans 2-7 .222 -- .500 Lost 7
3 Carolina 2-7 .222 -- .507 Won 1
4 Cleveland 2-7 .222 -- .517 Lost 1
5 Las Vegas 2-7 .222 -- .518 Lost 5
6 NY Giants 2-7 .222 -- .532 Lost 4
7 Miami 2-6 .250 0.5 .438 Lost 3
8 Jacksonville 2-6 .250 0.5 .489 Lost 1
9 Tennessee 2-6 .250 0.5 .536 Won 1
10 NY Jets 3-6 .333 1.0 .479 Won 1

Giants at 6 will need a QB, so trade back and pick up trade capital.
 

luckiestman

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New Orleans, Carolina, Cleveland, Las Vegas, NY Giants and NY Jets all need QBs. If the Pats end up #1, they will get a haul for their pick, even though neither Ward nor Sanders may be a franchise QB.
I don’t think the Jets are drafting a qb early. We need one but the circus might be going for another year.
 

Morgan's Magic Snowplow

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I've said it before and I'll say it again - the NFL is not good this year. So many really bad teams, and even the best teams in the league don't look anywhere near as good as the best teams not many years ago.
Yup.

Case in point given SNF is about to start: This is maybe the worst Chiefs team since Mahomes took the reins and they are undefeated.
 

mauf

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Yup.

Case in point given SNF is about to start: This is maybe the worst Chiefs team since Mahomes took the reins and they are undefeated.
No way. They’re an elite team. They’re just getting it done with excellent D and a good-enough offense (thanks to Mahomes), as opposed to outscoring everyone year after year.


I've said it before and I'll say it again - the NFL is not good this year. So many really bad teams, and even the best teams in the league don't look anywhere near as good as the best teams not many years ago.
It’s called good defense. We didn’t see much of it for a decade prior to last year, but it’s back. I’m enjoying it.
 

Cellar-Door

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No way. They’re an elite team. They’re just getting it done with excellent D and a good-enough offense (thanks to Mahomes), as opposed to outscoring everyone year after year.
If anything this is the best "Team" they have had in their window, it's just been the worst offense
 
Oct 12, 2023
1,274
If anything this is the best "Team" they have had in their window, it's just been the worst offense
Not even the worst offense. Better than last year in points per drive.

least scary offense perhaps? Kelce is fading and the WR group doesn’t threaten defenses the way it used to but they’re still finding a way to get it done.
 

Justthetippett

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New Orleans, Carolina, Cleveland, Las Vegas, NY Giants and NY Jets all need QBs. If the Pats end up #1, they will get a haul for their pick, even though neither Ward nor Sanders may be a franchise QB.
This is really the dream scenario. Now, can Wolf execute not only the trade but also the picks...big question mark.
 

Morgan's Magic Snowplow

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If anything this is the best "Team" they have had in their window, it's just been the worst offense
I really don't think so. My first post was hyperbole, especially given how they looked for much of last year, but I don't think this is a dominant Chiefs team at all. They have caught the toughest teams on their schedule at good times (Baltimore while they were just getting going, SF decimated by injury) and basically beaten a bunch of other bad to meh teams by one score. They are obviously very good but I think ceiling on this Chiefs team is considerably lower than most of their other teams in the run.
 

Trapaholic

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As it stands today, the Patriots have the 6th overall pick in the draft. They are tied with the Jets record wise, with the Pats having a slightly easier strength of schedule.

Jacksonville and Tennessee are 1 and 2 respectively. It is interesting because the Patriots have lost to both of those teams.

The Browns, Giants, and Raiders occupy the 3rd through 5th spots.

The #1 pick is very much still in play, because a few of those teams that are in front of the Patriots play each other towards the end of the season. The Browns have a tough schedule with several division games, Kansas City, and at Denver.

Personally, I think the Patriots still have the least amount of NFL caliber talent and coaching.
 

Morgan's Magic Snowplow

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The Patriots schedule from here on out is pretty tough and the Bills winning yesterday substantially increases the chances they'll be playing for something meaningful Week 17 and not resting starters.

Most of the two win teams have some very soft spots on the schedule:

Giants - NO
Raiders - at NO, JAX
Jaguars - at TEN, TEN, JETS, @Raiders
Titans - @JAX, JAX

The exception is Cleveland, whose schedule is absolutely brutal. Losing out is definitely in play for them.

It feels like picking somewhere in the 3-5 range is pretty likely for the Patriots.
 

Trapaholic

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Has Doug Pederson been fired?
The Patriots probably saved his job lol. I was more talking about the coaching staff as a whole for the Pats. Lots of inexperience in their roles and little track record of success. Between Mayo and Covington, it is the first year in the seat for both of them. AVP was a coordinator, but didn't call plays save for 1 game. The play calling thing is a job in and of itself. It is one thing to have a rookie coach, but the 3 big coaching positions are all guys who have never done it at the NFL level before and that is tough to overcome.
 

nattysez

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The Patriots schedule from here on out is pretty tough and the Bills winning yesterday substantially increases the chances they'll be playing for something meaningful Week 17 and not resting starters.

Most of the two win teams have some very soft spots on the schedule:

Giants - NO
Raiders - at NO, JAX
Jaguars - at TEN, TEN, JETS, @Raiders
Titans - @JAX, JAX

The exception is Cleveland, whose schedule is absolutely brutal. Losing out is definitely in play for them.

It feels like picking somewhere in the 3-5 range is pretty likely for the Patriots.
If the Pats lose out, then I think they're likely to pick 2-4.

A very possible path for the Pats is: Pats lose out, Titans and Jags split their 2 games, Raiders beat Jax, and Tommy Cutlets leads the Giants to a win against the Cowboys, Saints or Colts. That would leave Cleveland with the first pick (as you said, it's very hard to see how they can win any of their remaining games) and the Pats with #2. If Jax lose out, then the Pats wind up with #3. If the Jags and Giants lose out, then the Pats are at #4. The Raiders can sneak back into the mix if they lose to Jax, but then Jax will be out of the running for a top pick.

If the Pats beat the Colts, things get complicated from a draft pick perspective, as there are currently 19 teams with 4 or fewer wins.
 

Justthetippett

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If the Pats lose out, then I think they're likely to pick 2-4.

A very possible path for the Pats is: Pats lose out, Titans and Jags split their 2 games, Raiders beat Jax, and Tommy Cutlets leads the Giants to a win against the Cowboys, Saints or Colts. That would leave Cleveland with the first pick (as you said, it's very hard to see how they can win any of their remaining games) and the Pats with #2. If Jax lose out, then the Pats wind up with #3. If the Jags and Giants lose out, then the Pats are at #4. The Raiders can sneak back into the mix if they lose to Jax, but then Jax will be out of the running for a top pick.

If the Pats beat the Colts, things get complicated from a draft pick perspective, as there are currently 19 teams with 4 or fewer wins.
It's very Cleveland to get the first pick in a non-QB draft. I almost feel bad for them, then remember Watson, then feel bad for their fans anyways...maybe a good QB will emerge, but 2024 or 2026 drafts was the year to bottom out.

I would bet now the Pats win 1 more game. They really can't put a whole game together against a quality opponent. Could be Indy, Ariz or maybe even LAC...but won't be more than one. Agree they are very likely to pick top-5, which is completely fine.
 

NomarsFool

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Anything can happen, but quite a few of those teams “ahead” of us in that standings are getting blown out. Thankfully, the NEP are typically competitive in most of the games. Playing a strong game but coming up just short is the “best” way to tank. Getting blown out by 40 points is not good for the long term culture.
 

E5 Yaz

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The next Games of the Weak

Patriots @ Dolphins
Bucs @ Giants
Cowboys @ Commanders
Chiefs @ Panthers
Titans @ Texans
Broncos @ Raiders

Jets, Jaguars have byes
 

Saints Rest

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If the Pats lose out, then I think they're likely to pick 2-4.

A very possible path for the Pats is: Pats lose out, Titans and Jags split their 2 games, Raiders beat Jax, and Tommy Cutlets leads the Giants to a win against the Cowboys, Saints or Colts. That would leave Cleveland with the first pick (as you said, it's very hard to see how they can win any of their remaining games) and the Pats with #2. If Jax lose out, then the Pats wind up with #3. If the Jags and Giants lose out, then the Pats are at #4. The Raiders can sneak back into the mix if they lose to Jax, but then Jax will be out of the running for a top pick.

If the Pats beat the Colts, things get complicated from a draft pick perspective, as there are currently 19 teams with 4 or fewer wins.
Once we get past the Week 14 bye, it will be interesting to see where things stand. The next two weeks are probably the only opportunities for a win (short of the Bills sitting the world in Week 18). Plus the Bye will allow the other 4 teams that are currently tied in the loss column with the Pats to even up in terms of games played.
 

streeter88

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Once we get past the Week 14 bye, it will be interesting to see where things stand. The next two weeks are probably the only opportunities for a win (short of the Bills sitting the world in Week 18). Plus the Bye will allow the other 4 teams that are currently tied in the loss column with the Pats to even up in terms of games played.
After last week's Bears win and a frustrating loss vs the Rams, I had to check the schedule wrt to the bolded. Pats always seemed to be just below the bar vs the Rams (a pretty good team playing in a tough division). Playing at Hard Rock has been a tough ask since forever, but is there a discernable uptick in offensive capability with Maye's growth, the young WRs stabilising and learning to perform with him, and the OL maybe being just a little less putrid - that balances out the defensive flaws and coaching? I wonder whether it's really more like 1-5 from here on in, can't decide what is a realistic prediction, and just not sure whether I should be optimistic or not?
 
Oct 12, 2023
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The next Games of the Weak

Patriots @ Dolphins
Bucs @ Giants
Cowboys @ Commanders
Chiefs @ Panthers
Titans @ Texans
Broncos @ Raiders

Jets, Jaguars have byes
The raiders seem like the only team with any chance other the Pats. Seems like a week where the Pats could very well win and screw themselves out of a top 5 pick
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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I don't know about this site but it tracks with what we have seen all season. The coaching may or may not be an issue but talent clearly is. They are an objectively bad team. If you can see a.500 or better team here, you need to show your work because its not evident looking anywhere else including the scoreboard, the point differentials, standings etc.

This does not include today's absolute terrible game by the Patriots. Are they the worst? Maybe not but they are pretty awful by any standard.



92250
 

Red Averages

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The Jags are going to hold the key to the draft positioning. Arguably Trevor Lawrence is out for the year now, but we shall see. If they can win maybe one game and lose the rest if would be huge. Or even if they just lose all of them to push the rest of the teams...

2 Win teams: Giants, Raiders, Jags all 2-10
3 Win Teams: NE (3-10), Car, Ten, NYJ, Browns all 3-9

Schedules:
Week 13: Browns @ Broncos (tonight)

Week 14: Jags @ Ten (Ten -3.5). The rest are 5+ point underdogs: Raiders @ TB / Jets @ MIA / NO @ NYG / CAR @ PHI / CLE @ PIT / NE on a bye
Week 15: Jets @ Jags. DAL @ CAR also important. The rest: KC @ Cle / Cin @ TEN / Bal @ NYG / NE @ ARZ / ATL @ Raiders
Week 16: Jags @ Raiders. The rest: NYG @ Atl / NE @ Buf / Cle @ Cin / TEN @ IND / Rams @ Jets / ARZ @ Car / TB @ DAL
Week 17: TEN @ Jags. The rest: Jets @ Buf / Raiders @ NO / Car @ TB / Dal @ Phi / MIA @ Cle / Rams @ NE / IND @ NYG
Week 18: Car @ ATL / Was @ Dal / Jag @ Indy / Chargers @ Raiders / Buf @ NE / Mia @ Jets / NYG @ Phi / Cle @ BAL

Really need the Pats to lose out. If the Jags lose out, they will singlehandedly push multiple teams out. Tampa Bay is another team that seems to play one of these teams each week. One Jags win would push them to the 3 win tier and I assume their tie breaker would win (low draft pick) due to strength of schedule. Tankathon lists the SoS and remaining SoS: https://www.tankathon.com/nfl/ & https://www.tankathon.com/nfl/remaining_schedule_strength

Assumption as of now: Giants #1 pick and go QB. I'd expect the Panthers, Ten, Jets, Browns to all finish with 4 wins or more. Would be huge if the Raiders / Jags can both win a game. Wouldn't be shocking if the Raiders won 2 IMO.

All of this is to say the Pats actually have a pretty clear path to the 2 or 3 pick if they can lose out. If you can get to a spot where the Pats are #3 and Jags want Hunter and Giants want Ward/Sanders, that leaves the Pats in prime position to draft down, even if to 4 or 5 to get their preferred choice of non QB/Hunter.
 
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Trapaholic

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I think losing out is very much in play for this Patriots team. The last Bills game could be interesting if they are truly going to rest all of their starters, but even that would still be a tough test.

Lots of moving parts obviously, but the Patriots look primed to end up in that pick 3-4 range. Right now, the Pats have 4 picks in the top 83. If the Falcons totally bottom out, that 83rd could improve slightly.

Would not hate it if those picks went to both sides of the line. They are spread way too thin on the offensive and defensive line and even getting to league average would be a huge improvement.
 

epraz

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According to multiple team rating/projection systems, including DVOA, the Pats have the best chance of any team at the #1 pick--though still less than 50%.
 

snowmanny

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I think losing out is very much in play for this Patriots team. The last Bills game could be interesting if they are truly going to rest all of their starters, but even that would still be a tough test.
Bills have one tough game against Detroit. Chiefs have Texans, Chargers, Steelers. It seems very possible the one-seed will still be in play at week 18, with Bills holding the tiebreaker.
 

cshea

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The Bills are only a game behind the Chiefs for the bye and they hold the head-to-head. I think there's very little chance that the week 18 game is meaningless for them. It would basically require the Chiefs to lose 2 of the next 4 and the Bills to run the table (they play Detroit in that stretch).
 

johnmd20

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The Bills are only a game behind the Chiefs for the bye and they hold the head-to-head. I think there's very little chance that the week 18 game is meaningless for them. It would basically require the Chiefs to lose 2 of the next 4 and the Bills to run the table (they play Detroit in that stretch).
It's the flip. If the Bills are two games off of KC in Week 18 and have their playoff position locked up, they could rest their players.
 

cshea

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It's the flip. If the Bills are two games off of KC in Week 18 and have their playoff position locked up, they could rest their players.
I was thinking the only way the Bills would consider resting guys is if they have the #1 seed and thus the bye locked up. If the Chiefs lose two of their next 4 and the Bills ran the table the Bills would be 14-2 and the Chiefs 13-3 which would mean the Bills are the #1 seed (although it's possible that Pittsburgh would be in the conversation too...).

It's too soon to really game out the playoff paths but I think in a scenario where KC has clinched the #1 seed before week 18, Buffalo would have some kind of seeding implications on the game.
 

snowmanny

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2 seed is better than 3 seed as well. I know there are different philosophies on rest vs seeding, but unless my team was already locked into a particular slot, I’d want them to win the game.
 
Oct 12, 2023
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The Jags are going to hold the key to the draft positioning. Arguably Trevor Lawrence is out for the year now, but we shall see. If they can win maybe one game and lose the rest if would be huge. Or even if they just lose all of them to push the rest of the teams...

2 Win teams: Giants, Raiders, Jags all 2-10
3 Win Teams: NE (3-10), Car, Ten, NYJ, Browns all 3-9

Schedules:
Week 13: Browns @ Broncos (tonight)

Week 14: Jags @ Ten (Ten -3.5). The rest are 5+ point underdogs: Raiders @ TB / Jets @ MIA / NO @ NYG / CAR @ PHI / CLE @ PIT / NE on a bye
Week 15: Jets @ Jags. DAL @ CAR also important. The rest: KC @ Cle / Cin @ TEN / Bal @ NYG / NE @ ARZ / ATL @ Raiders
Week 16: Jags @ Raiders. The rest: NYG @ Atl / NE @ Buf / Cle @ Cin / TEN @ IND / Rams @ Jets / ARZ @ Car / TB @ DAL
Week 17: TEN @ Jags. The rest: Jets @ Buf / Raiders @ NO / Car @ TB / Dal @ Phi / MIA @ Cle / Rams @ NE / IND @ NYG
Week 18: Car @ ATL / Was @ Dal / Jag @ Indy / Chargers @ Raiders / Buf @ NE / Mia @ Jets / NYG @ Phi / Cle @ BAL

Really need the Pats to lose out. If the Jags lose out, they will singlehandedly push multiple teams out. Tampa Bay is another team that seems to play one of these teams each week. One Jags win would push them to the 3 win tier and I assume their tie breaker would win (low draft pick) due to strength of schedule. Tankathon lists the SoS and remaining SoS: https://www.tankathon.com/nfl/ & https://www.tankathon.com/nfl/remaining_schedule_strength

Assumption as of now: Giants #1 pick and go QB. I'd expect the Panthers, Ten, Jets, Browns to all finish with 4 wins or more. Would be huge if the Raiders / Jags can both win a game. Wouldn't be shocking if the Raiders won 2 IMO.

All of this is to say the Pats actually have a pretty clear path to the 2 or 3 pick if they can lose out. If you can get to a spot where the Pats are #3 and Jags want Hunter and Giants want Ward/Sanders, that leaves the Pats in prime position to draft down, even if to 4 or 5 to get their preferred choice of non QB/Hunter.
good analysis but I would think if the Jags are drafting 1st or 2nd (with the Giants drafting 1st or 2nd), Jacksonville will be trading to a team that wants to either jump the Giants for the QB or who wants to secure the 2nd QB

Top 2 picks feel like they will be Sanders/Ward unless nobody is willing to move up. I’d think the Raiders at least will want to go up from 3-5 to get a QB after missing out last year.

that said, I’m hoping Hunter is gone before the Pats pick because he’s a guy I definitely don’t want to spend a top 5 pick on.
 

Eric Fernsten's Disco Mustache

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I’m hoping Hunter is gone before the Pats pick because he’s a guy I definitely don’t want to spend a top 5 pick on.
Why is this?

I was just thinking the other day that if you believe in a “wisdom of the crowd” approach he’s the least risky guy to draft because everyone agrees he’s great.

The advanced stats people love him; the more traditional “tools and skills” people love him; there may be criticisms that I haven’t see , but from what I have he’s the only guy in the top 5-10 that everyone agrees should be top 3

And it’s not like we couldn’t use a great corner

What are you seeing different here?
 

j-man

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IF u get a top 2 pick trade down no worse than 5 try to get 3 1rsts if u cant get a 1st 2nd 3rd in 25 1st and 2nd in 26
 

mauf

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It's the flip. If the Bills are two games off of KC in Week 18 and have their playoff position locked up, they could rest their players.
Absolutely. The Steelers have a brutal remaining schedule, and the Bills are 3 up in the loss column on everyone else. If they’re 2 behind KC heading into Week 18, they could well be locked into the #2 seed.