Trent Brown likely is not an issue: Former Patriots OT done for the season with torn patella tendon (msn.com)
Are the Pats the worst team in the NFL?
- Thread starter ShaneTrot
- Start date
Last season, we had a conversation emerge about the difference between the team sucking and the team being boring. They are correlated, of course, but a distinction was made about if there were things to watch for development and improvement; that would be interesting and even enjoyable in a forward looking way.
Week one was fun, but the last two games have been boring. Especially on offense, with the line collapsing instantly we can’t really even see if there’s any player development not just on the part of individual linemen but of the receivers.
Week one was fun, but the last two games have been boring. Especially on offense, with the line collapsing instantly we can’t really even see if there’s any player development not just on the part of individual linemen but of the receivers.
Obviously, your mileage may vary, etc. but FWIW I thought both weeks 1 and 2 were very entertaining.
The Seahawks are a (to me) surprisingly good team. We played them close and put up two touchdowns and two field goals. We didn't have more than two possessions in a row that ended in punts. Our offense broke a bunch of big plays (Gibson's 45-yard run after almost being taken down for a big loss; Brissett's surprisingly-strongly-thrown ball to Polk in the back of the end zone; etc.)
The Jets game was a complete shit-show, I grant you. That said, it's pretty classic for a team that has just been humiliated in that fashion to come back and make a lot more/better effort/hustle plays the next week. And our guys have now had ten days of Boston sports media dumping on them every day.
I'm hoping we play more like weeks 1 and 2 against San Fran. Even if we do I'm guessing we lose anyway. And your takeaway from this post might just be that my standards are too low, but I'm cautiously optimistic about being entertained.
The Seahawks are a (to me) surprisingly good team. We played them close and put up two touchdowns and two field goals. We didn't have more than two possessions in a row that ended in punts. Our offense broke a bunch of big plays (Gibson's 45-yard run after almost being taken down for a big loss; Brissett's surprisingly-strongly-thrown ball to Polk in the back of the end zone; etc.)
The Jets game was a complete shit-show, I grant you. That said, it's pretty classic for a team that has just been humiliated in that fashion to come back and make a lot more/better effort/hustle plays the next week. And our guys have now had ten days of Boston sports media dumping on them every day.
I'm hoping we play more like weeks 1 and 2 against San Fran. Even if we do I'm guessing we lose anyway. And your takeaway from this post might just be that my standards are too low, but I'm cautiously optimistic about being entertained.
yeah I thought week 2 was an entertaining game, they were obviously less talented but played hard and pretty well, were a FG block away from a win
Fair points, and I definitely shouldn’t overstate the boringness of an overtime game. But while I lack the ability to see all that’s going on in the game in real time that some of you have, I felt like the Patriots were being “solved” over the course of the game and that it is highly colored by the surprise victory in week one and the stronger first half. But maybe by the same token the Jets game is coloring my memory now.
Five attempts for 19 yards to wide receivers was something people were acutely aware of even in real time in the game thread and continued the conversations in this forum as to how much we can expect to win that way. It’s certainly not the future.
But it’s also fair to say that maybe it’s not right to draw too many conclusions from a Thursday game, that’s for sure. In that vein, Sunday is inherently an interesting game, so… yeah!
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I think having an exciting team and playing entertaining games can be different things. No would would argue that weeks 1 and 2 were not entertaining. But the style of play - on offense - is anything but exciting.
Of course, the 2001 (and to a degree, 2003) teams played a not very exciting offensive style too.
Of course, the 2001 (and to a degree, 2003) teams played a not very exciting offensive style too.
The excitement meter will be cranked up when Maye starts even if the wins meter doesn't get cranked up initially as well.
I thought weeks 1 and 2 were entertaining. I think if they keep games within a score, most will quailify as exciting even if it's bad football. When they can't get a stop on defense and it feels like making a 1st down on offense is impossible, thats when it gets boring/painful.
I thought weeks 1 and 2 were entertaining. I think if they keep games within a score, most will quailify as exciting even if it's bad football. When they can't get a stop on defense and it feels like making a 1st down on offense is impossible, thats when it gets boring/painful.
The key is being in games (last year's faceplant fight vs the LAC notwithstanding). Competitiveness in the high leverage situations is also fundamental. It was a near lock that the NYJ would convert every important third down last Thursday and the Pats would not. They kind of fecklessness in plays that determine outcomes makes a game feel hopeless.
Agreed all around.
The 2023 Pats went 4-13. However, I'd argue that they were entertaining more weeks than not:
W1: L 25-20 vs Philly
W2: L 24-17 vs Miami
W3: W 15-10 @ NYJ
W6: L 21-17 @ Vegas
W7: W 29-25 vs Buffalo
W9: L 20-17 vs Wash
W10: L 10-6 vs Indy
W12: L 10-7 vs NYG
W13: L 6-0 vs LAC
W14: W 21-18 @ PIT
W16: W 26-23 @ DEN
W17: L 27-21 @ BUF
I would argue that many of those close games were not entertaining because there was never a sliver of hope that they would be able to score enough to win. Those IND, NYG, and LAC games were abominations in the sight of the Lord, final scores notwithstanding.
Man, I am with you more times than not when it comes to the Pats, but this is a take I cannot stand behind. They lost a bunch of close games last year but they were an abomination on offense and you never really felt like they could win once they fell behind. They were shitty and boring, the most shitty, boring Pats team since the early 90's.
I completely agree with you on this one @Ralphwiggum. Watching those games was a chore, and that team was abysmal. Like many, I had the disgusting experience of rooting against Belichick and the Pats in those late game situations because I figured our only salvation lay in the top 3 picks in the next draft.
At first? Absolutely. But after that, the initial excitement fades fast if he doesn't look good and the team is getting blown out.
I'm not saying the team needs to win right away with Maye. If he makes some beautiful throws and the team loses some thrillers, I'm sure we'll all be relatively happy.
But if he's getting crushed behind the O-line, the offense is still stagnant, and he looks like a green rookie who was playing against the ACC last year, I'm sure the media judgment will be harsh and swift.
Ok, I guess they were kind of entertaining from more of a car wreck perspective? They played closed games, and then of course we were rooting for losses. But the broader point was that while we can be entertained by close games, they were in no way fun to watch, as opposed to say the 1993 team.
But, I can’t root for them to lose even if it is the better outcome. The players are literally putting their lives on the line out there, and many (most) of them have very short careers and are playing for another contract. I can’t get any joy out of them losing even if like last year it was the better result for the franchise. Which made last year even more intolerable for me at least.
Also they just looked like a shitty football team. Wretched special teams, penalties, stupid mistakes, turnovers. The win against the Bengals was fun in Week 1 but more so than the outcome they actually looked like a competent football team for the first time in a while. The jury is still out obviously but if they can play relatively clean games and they lose a bunch of close ones because they lack talent, I can enjoy watching them play. More games like last Thursday means more free time for Ralph on Sundays.
Also they just looked like a shitty football team. Wretched special teams, penalties, stupid mistakes, turnovers. The win against the Bengals was fun in Week 1 but more so than the outcome they actually looked like a competent football team for the first time in a while. The jury is still out obviously but if they can play relatively clean games and they lose a bunch of close ones because they lack talent, I can enjoy watching them play. More games like last Thursday means more free time for Ralph on Sundays.
Especially with everyone on defense that’s any good getting hurt, yeah they’re probably the worst team in the league at this point.
That first punt was like laying up on a par 5 in match play after you've already hit one OB. It accomplished nothing but wasting time and telling your team that you're not interested in trying to win.
This isn't a debate any more. They are the worst team in the league.
The coaching is beyond abominable.
The coaching is beyond abominable.
I think it's a pretty easy assessment. Is there any team you think they'd beat on a neutral field (or even at home) next week?
I agree on the coaching. I would also argue their roster construction (blocking TE, backup center, left tackle) is pretty awful as well.
Worst QB in football. But they knew that when they signed him. Mayo is currently over his head. AVP is vanilla. The defense is fading away with injuries. They are absolutely in the conversation. Since Brady left draft day is our Super Bowl.
I am not sure how he could be a great head coach at this point. He has never been a head coach at any level in football and as near as I can tell has never called plays on either side of the ball. Top it off, he has a relatively short time as a coach in the NFL. Basically he was a smart player and "great leader" that Kraft fell in love with. If we had to move on from Bill, I dont understand how we did not end up with Vrabel. He would have been perfect on this team.
I like Vrabel and think he is a very good defensive and game day coach but look how much better Malik Willis is with the Packers compared to what he was with the Titans. I know some of that is the team around him but LaFleur can coach offense and can develop QBs.
I think you’re onto something here, perhaps the days of hiring defensive coaches as HCs are nearly over?
When was the last time the Pats had an offensive minded HC? Mayo, BB, Carroll, Parcells all defensive guys.
A defensive minded head coach works with a great OC (see Washington this year). Problem is those OC’s get quickly gobbled up. Unique situation in DC this year with Kingsbury.
They are competitive on defense and special teams and nowhere close on offense. On that side of the ball, they are the worst. Everyone is wringing their hands over putting in Maye with a shitty offensive line, but that shitty offensive line was a choice. Now it's so bad that Maye will probably lose a year of development because they are horrified he'll get killed. It's really amateur hour in the front office.
Kraft and Fredo got what they wanted; they got rid of BB and "got their team back", hired a guy they liked vs someone who was actually qualified from a coaching standpoint to be an NFL head coach, they should have had a much more thorough interview process to find the next guy.
They have a head coach who's in way over his head and they can't identify free agent talent or college draft talent to save their lives.
To go into the season with this horrendous offensive line is borderline criminal, now injuries are gutting what was shitty offensive line to begin with.
Their kicker and punter were the two best players on the field today.
They are totally unwatchable, they make the 1990 Patriots look like world beaters.
They have a head coach who's in way over his head and they can't identify free agent talent or college draft talent to save their lives.
To go into the season with this horrendous offensive line is borderline criminal, now injuries are gutting what was shitty offensive line to begin with.
Their kicker and punter were the two best players on the field today.
They are totally unwatchable, they make the 1990 Patriots look like world beaters.
Pats’ upcoming schedule:
1-2 Dolphins at NE
3-1 Texans at NE
NE at 1-3 Jaguars
2-2 Jets at NE
NE at 1-3 Titans
NE at 2-2 Bears
1-3 Rams at NE
NE at 1-2 Dolphins
2-2 Colts at NE
NE at 1-3 Cardinals
Now the way they’ve looked the last two weeks it’s hard to be super optimistic against any team in the NFL. But that’s about as easy a 10-game stretch as you can possibly ask for. If Maye comes in to start next week and provides some offensive spark, they might be able to win a bunch of these upcoming games.
1-2 Dolphins at NE
3-1 Texans at NE
NE at 1-3 Jaguars
2-2 Jets at NE
NE at 1-3 Titans
NE at 2-2 Bears
1-3 Rams at NE
NE at 1-2 Dolphins
2-2 Colts at NE
NE at 1-3 Cardinals
Now the way they’ve looked the last two weeks it’s hard to be super optimistic against any team in the NFL. But that’s about as easy a 10-game stretch as you can possibly ask for. If Maye comes in to start next week and provides some offensive spark, they might be able to win a bunch of these upcoming games.
It's a shame it doesn't come for about two months because this team could really use a bye week to get healthy and get some practice time in
It's another reason why it's time to get him into the lineup. I wouldn't count on wins, but it's likely they won't look as overmatched and that would be enough to get people interested.
They’re coming into the softest part of the schedule and they should be able to pick up at least 2 wins in the next 5 games.
rebuilds take time but this roster outside of kicker (which, given Slye’s track record could be short lived) and QB (which is hopes and dreams more than anything), is not any better and is actually probably worse than the one they had 12 months ago.
Wolf upgraded a garbage kicker to a retread journeyman and stuck and picked the obvious choice QB at 3 overall. The rest of his roster moves have totally failed to move the needle forward in any way.
This rebuild will take a decade if every offseason the only improvement we can hope for is the 1st round pick to be an elite cornerstone.
rebuilds take time but this roster outside of kicker (which, given Slye’s track record could be short lived) and QB (which is hopes and dreams more than anything), is not any better and is actually probably worse than the one they had 12 months ago.
Wolf upgraded a garbage kicker to a retread journeyman and stuck and picked the obvious choice QB at 3 overall. The rest of his roster moves have totally failed to move the needle forward in any way.
This rebuild will take a decade if every offseason the only improvement we can hope for is the 1st round pick to be an elite cornerstone.
2 home games and at Jags might be a good time if you’re going to do it. I wouldn’t play him.