April brouhaha with the Yankees

Sampo Gida

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Aug 7, 2010
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The suspensions are bullshit. Austin started the entire thing AND cheapshotted our 3B coach and he gets away with fewer games than Kelly?
Pitchers get more since they are available for fewer games. Austin misses 5 games and Kelly misses at most 3 games. Kelly loses more money.

Yankees back to being MLB favorites with Manfred and Torres calling the shots, so this was not an awful outcome.
 

dhappy42

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Oct 27, 2013
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That's exactly my point. There is no way they call that an intentional hit and suspension unless Austin charged the mound. In the future, if you're a scrub against a great pitcher just charge the mound I guess.
That’s exactly the problem with the stupid suspension. It rewards players, particularly scrubs, for charging the mound. There’s no way that pitch gets called intentional if Austin just mans up and takes his base.
 

Sampo Gida

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Austin didn't know that going in. Watch the replay, Holt was standing in a position to receive the throw and attempt the turn until the last moment. By the time he re-positioned to receive the throw without making the turn, Austin was already sliding. If Holt holds the original position, double play attempt or not, he doesn't get spiked. Maybe he get knocked over. Maybe.
Sure he did, its a timing thing, he saw how slow the play developed. If he didnt know he has a low baseball IQ. Watching on TV I couldn't see the runner to first either but everyone watching knew there was no chance of a DP even before Holt caught the ball

As for holding his original position given Austin overslid the bag he most certainly gets hit, and perhaps injured since he takes the full brunt of Austins momentum (big dude)
 

lexrageorge

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I can't really blame MLB for taking action on a guy throwing a beanball. In this day and age of pitchers routinely throwing in the 90's, it's scary to think what could happen. Austin is an idiot and a douche; they both should have gotten 5 games.

In any event, it's over. Maybe bad feelings are still lingering, but guys need to get over it. Any further "retaliation" by either side tonight should result in both immediate ejection of the players involved, both managers, and significant suspensions for those involved.
 

nighthob

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Who knows what happened behind closed doors, but in public Cora handled this waaay better than Aaron “Bucking” Boone. Sure, you back your players and certainly don’t show them up in public, but you don’t have to call out the other team in the process and double-down on the douchebaggery.
I mean if the defense of Austin is "He's so fucking stupid that when they explained to him that he was likely going to get thrown at for threatening a guy that he had 4" and 50lbs on after spiking him" I guess I can't argue.

But my Occam's Razor sense tells me that since the Yankees clearly had no problem with him being a giant douchebag when the benches originally emptied that they don't really have a problem with his behaving like a 16 year old juicehead.
 

Reverend

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I am astonished that X and Pedey were out on the field. Didn't know that. We need them to be healing, not running around with Yankee brutes!
I think everyone on the DL on both sides who joined in get an automatic suspension.

So, yeah.
 

Jordu

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I was at a game years ago with a co-worker who was not a baseball fan. He came for the company and the beer.

A fight broke out. My friend asked: “Why do the guys in the bullpen run all the way in? Why don’t they just stay out there and fight each other?”
 

jon abbey

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I think everyone on the DL on both sides who joined in get an automatic suspension.
No, one of the baseball writers on Twitter checked before today's ruling and guys who did this in 2017 fights got fined, not suspended.
 

Minneapolis Millers

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Austin's slide was not legit and could have been called. The "new" slide rule requires that the player be able to and attempt to remain on the base at the completion of the slide and also not change his path for the purpose of initiating contact with a fielder. I went back and watched the replay in slow motion: Austin overslides the bag - not by a lot, but he does, and while he probably could have reached back to grab it, he didn't attempt to do so, probably because he knew he was already out. But that's a violation of the rule, as currently formulated. He also alters his slide to make contact with Holt. Did he "change his path?" Less clear, but he never even tries to contact the bag with his lead foot. He sticks it out and to his left - a solid foot inside the bag - directly at and into Holt's leg. The ump could have fairly called him out on the slide for either reason. But in any case, Holt had a legit beef, and I would have expected Austin to get a suspension for triggering the whole mess even if he hadn't charged the mound (although it would have likely been fewer than 5 games in that case).

As for the suspensions, they're about right, imo. I think Kelly got the extra game for throwing at the guy twice.
 

Reverend

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No, one of the baseball writers on Twitter checked before today's ruling and guys who did this in 2017 fights got fined, not suspended.
Whoops, I misspoke--my bad. Yes, fines.
 

rickmac

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Aug 26, 2015
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Disagree. Kelly was going to be suspended for hitting him regardless of Austin's reaction. Probably only 2 games or something if nothing came of it. He clearly threw at him intentionally. Barnes got four games last year for intentionally throwing behind Machado and there was no fight involved then.
I think some video of him trying to throw a strike with a three ball count would be a decent defense showing there is no way he hit him if that is what he intended.
 

jon abbey

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I think some video of him trying to throw a strike with a three ball count would be a decent defense showing there is no way he hit him if that is what he intended.
Heh, you joke, but Betances avoided punishment in the Yankee/Tiger fight last year because of a similar innate wildness, if I recall correctly.
 

Soxfan in Fla

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Holt shouldn’t be throwing hands in response to that cheap ass slide with his concussion history.
 

TonyPenaNeverJuiced

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Holt shouldn’t be throwing hands in response to that cheap ass slide with his concussion history.
Good thing he didn't then.

Austin had 2 chances to de-escalate things yesterday (after the contested slide). Whatever Brock said, Austin could have put his head down, taken the out, and trotted back to the dugout. Instead, he minced words. The second is he could have not charged the mound, which - well, if you did the 1st, good chance you're doing the 2nd, cause you ain't too bright it seems.
 

Plantiers Wart

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Cora on the radio pregame had a good point / why was Phil Nevin the one calling him and the Sox out. Not only during the brawl but after. He said if anyone should have said anything to him it should have been Boone. Seems like a legit point.
 
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If the Yankees were to option Tyler Austin back to AAA while he's appealing his suspension, could he then drop the appeal while on the AAA roster and serve the suspension as a AAA player, thus, not affecting the ML roster?
 

ALiveH

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I didn't see HanRam's HBP last night. Judging by the lack of brawl or re-retaliation, I'm guessing it wasn't deemed intentional? Was it a breaking ball or did Hanley lean into it or something?
 

Cuzittt

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If the Yankees were to option Tyler Austin back to AAA while he's appealing his suspension, could he then drop the appeal while on the AAA roster and serve the suspension as a AAA player, thus, not affecting the ML roster?
It's an MLB suspension. It needs to be served while he is on the 25 man roster.
 

tonyarmasjr

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I didn't see HanRam's HBP last night. Judging by the lack of brawl or re-retaliation, I'm guessing it wasn't deemed intentional? Was it a breaking ball or did Hanley lean into it or something?
It was a fastball that ran in. Hit him on the inside of his right forearm/wrist. As he was loading, he never really was able to pull his hands back and out of the way. Wholly unintentional in my book.
 

Savin Hillbilly

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The wrong side of the bridge....
I didn't see HanRam's HBP last night. Judging by the lack of brawl or re-retaliation, I'm guessing it wasn't deemed intentional? Was it a breaking ball or did Hanley lean into it or something?
It was a fastball that ran in on the hands. Hanley didn't lean into it, but he didn't jump back either. I think he didn't realize how far up it was until it was too late.

It wasn't really that far off the plate, and certainly not far enough inside to appear intentional. Just ordinary everyday "working inside without pinpoint control" stuff, I thought.
 

lexrageorge

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The initial news reports seem to indicate that Hanley's injury is not all that concerning. Kudos to Hanley and the Sox for doing the right thing and not escalating a situation that was clearly unintentional.
 

geoduck no quahog

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I think this entire thing was handled correctly. The umps did the right thing. Kelly did the right thing. Austin probably had no vicious intent...just a rookie asshole being a rookie asshole. He was wrong to charge the mound, but he's paid a price.

There's a difference in a position player missing 5 games and a relief pitcher missing 6. Kelly could/would be used in how many of those 6? Three? Four at the most? Austin sits out 5 games complete on a team that has no frontline first baseman.

All good.
 

reggiecleveland

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I was at a game years ago with a co-worker who was not a baseball fan. He came for the company and the beer.

A fight broke out. My friend asked: “Why do the guys in the bullpen run all the way in? Why don’t they just stay out there and fight each other?”
Because most guys don't want to fight, they just want to put in appearance to be supportive of their buddies. This applies for bar fights, "meet me by the swings", etc. You don't have to fight, but you can't overtly indicate you are unwilling to fight.
 

BroodsSexton

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Most interesting about this is that it doesn't even mention the slide, which touched all of this off. I think it would be fair to have commented on the slide being outside of the rules. But that apparently didn't factor into the decision. So Boone and Cashman are vindicated. This one goes into the official record as (i) a legitimate slide; (ii) retaliation by Kelly; and (iii) a brawl.
 
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If MLB really wanted to cut down/stop the intentional HBP, instruct the umps to eject the player from the game that did slide illegally. If the rules do not allow that, change them when they can.
 

Larry Gardner

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Hey, this time, Vazquez could have quoted Tek from back in '04 when he said, to ARod (IIRC) "We don't throw at .260 hitters", since he's hitting .265. It would have been really funny if he could've said "We don't throw at lifetime .240 hitters"......
 

Sampo Gida

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Watching how Judge and CC pretty much man handled everyone had me thinking we must be the smallest team in baseball, and certainly no match for the Yankee giants. Our tall guys are string beans and our shorter guys are not fighters like Coco and Odor

Judge had Kelly in a head lock that would have most UFC fighters tapping out while Austin took some poorly aimed shots at his head. Some peacekeeper. We not done with Austin yet, that guy still has it coming IMO.

That said we need to get some bigger guys we can use to counter Judge,Stanton, CC, Chapman and Sanchez . They must average 6-6 280 lbs.
 

Byrdbrain

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Yeah get rid of little guys like Mookie and Benny and get some bigger guys so the team can fight the Yankees better.

Did you think about this at all before you posted it?
 

Red(s)HawksFan

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Yes, because the goal in baseball is to beat the shit out of other teams in a fight, not score more runs than they do. Jesus. Is this MLB or WWE?

Suspensions were handed down. This thing should be quashed. If it isn't, and it's the Red Sox who initiate more throwing at guys and brawls, they ought to be kicked out of the league.

For whatever "cheap shots" Austin may have taken at Kelly while Kelly was held by Judge, Kelly got in just as many while Austin was taken down by Vazquez. I think everything came out even in the end. And if it didn't, who the hell cares? These are grown men who shouldn't be stooping to playground antics like who got the last punch in.
 

OfTheCarmen

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Only if there's actually an attempt made to throw to first. Holt made no such effort. He caught the ball in a stretch, first baseman-style, no intent to throw to first at all. Truth of the matter is that if he'd been attempting to turn the double play, he probably doesn't get spiked and at worst, we're talking about a hard slide that barely moves the needle as potentially illegal.
In reading multiple posts of the rule book in a few threads, there’s nothing in the wording that mentions anything about an attempt to make throw being required for any part of the illegal slide rule to be implemented.

It’s pretty cut and dry that illegal slide = runner and batter runner being out.
 

soxeast

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Aug 12, 2017
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Austin clearly made a dirty slide. To suggest Holt was going to make a throw to 1st imo is laughable. Anyways, these are players- human beings- it's their livelihood. You can go on youtbe and hear Paul O'Neil and David Cone yucking it up that the cleats were up. Some people might not care that a player's cleats are up and they can injure another human being and his livelihood - but glad to see the Sox trying to send a message to the in-experienced player.

I understand Cora was asked afterwords what he would have done in his day. He said he would have been able to catch the ball while his foot was off the bag but the player's can't do that now with instant replay. Thus when you hear people such as the Yanks pretending like the slide was no big deal compared to the past - they do so by being ignorant of the past unwritten rules in which the ump allowed the infielder to catch the ball while not having his foot simultaneously on the bag in some instances vs now with instant replay the infielder is grossly exposed when his back is to the runner he has to keep his foot on the base. Infielders are grossly exposed and you'll see injuries like what we saw with Pedey. Throwing at the in-experienced kid will hopefully temper his enthusiasm for next time. We'll see if he does it again. I doubt he will. Otherwise there will be further consequences and sooner or later MLB will have to face it that the new rule stinks.

**If you feel the slide is dirty and could injure a teammate - your response is to just turn the other cheek?
 

Earthbound64

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Judge had Kelly in a head lock that would have most UFC fighters tapping out while Austin took some poorly aimed shots at his head.
Yeah get rid of little guys like Mookie and Benny and get some bigger guys so the team can fight the Yankees better.
Yes, because the goal in baseball is to beat the shit out of other teams in a fight, not score more runs than they do. Jesus. Is this MLB or WWE?
 

BuellMiller

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Mar 25, 2015
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Watching how Judge and CC pretty much man handled everyone had me thinking we must be the smallest team in baseball, and certainly no match for the Yankee giants. Our tall guys are string beans and our shorter guys are not fighters like Coco and Odor

Judge had Kelly in a head lock that would have most UFC fighters tapping out while Austin took some poorly aimed shots at his head. Some peacekeeper. We not done with Austin yet, that guy still has it coming IMO.

That said we need to get some bigger guys we can use to counter Judge,Stanton, CC, Chapman and Sanchez . They must average 6-6 280 lbs.
1991 Mike Milbury is probably the only one who agrees with you. What's Lyndon Byers and his sweet, sweet mullet up to these days?
 

reggiecleveland

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My daughter is a wrestler and she showed my son, who pitches take down moves for a guy running at you. These moves could occupy maybe 30 minutes of ST, and be better than getting big guys.

Kevin Kennedy made some stupid speeches abut how big and tough he and his Red Sox team was.
 

joe dokes

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My daughter is a wrestler and she showed my son, who pitches take down moves for a guy running at you. These moves could occupy maybe 30 minutes of ST, and be better than getting big guys.
That's awesome. Like hockey players taking a couple of boxing lessons. I dont want to go to deep into this sideshow, but one question....should the pitcher get off the mound or make the charging batter climb the hill? Take a step back so they get leverage against the batter at the top of the hill?
 

doc

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3BCEFC40-1F35-4602-A126-6731967AD718.jpeg

Dr Strange Kelly

This is from twitter “Red”, who is that guy
 

keninten

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Nov 24, 2005
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This can be stopped by charging for a mound visit to the batters team that charges the mound.o_O That`s sarcasm folks. I think most fans actually love this stuff. When a star player gets hurt something might get done about this.