Bo Horvat traded to the Islanders
View: https://twitter.com/canucks/status/1620190951183646720?s=46&t=pbdDTbcuJtAmujZIbpVxqg
View: https://twitter.com/canucks/status/1620190951183646720?s=46&t=pbdDTbcuJtAmujZIbpVxqg
(Approaching the) Trade Deadline Thread
- Thread starter RedOctober3829
- Start date
Uh, ouch. And out of nowhere.
Kane now?
A comparable package from us would have been Lysell, Frederic, 1st rounder (but very likely will be worse than NYI's...)
Kane now?
A comparable package from us would have been Lysell, Frederic, 1st rounder (but very likely will be worse than NYI's...)
Last edited:
Could they have even done that deal cap wise? Personally I’d rather add another good defenseman if we’re dealing too prospects and 1st rounders.
They would have had to move more money. Not sure what Lou is doing here. He has Barzal, Nelson, JGP, and Czizikas already under contract long term at center.
They're probably thinking that he could help push them into the playoffs, and then anything can happen.
Lou is like a degenerate gambler at 5am in the casino maxing out the credit cards and letting the mortgage money ride to save his job. This trade is why you don’t let your GM run your team on an expiring contract. This is the kind of deal you get.
I think this is it...Lous feels like they either a) make a miracle run at the playoffs or b) he can get more at the deadline than he gave up.
Yeah, he's essentially dealt 4 first round picks in a row (could be 4 of 5 depending on how this picks shakes out). 2020 for JG Pageau, 2021 for Palmieri and the corpse of Travis Zajac, 2022 for Alex Romanov and 2023 or 2024 for Horvat. That's typically not sustainable. Also, most of the public models have the Islanders playoff chances at around 15%. I don't think Horvat moves the needle for them all that much. Beauvillier is junk and overpaid, Raty seems like an OK prospect but nothing to write home about so those aren't huge losses, but that pick could sting. 2023 is supposedly a deep draft so if it falls in that 13-16 range that could be a nice prospect for Vancouver. If the pick is top 12 and thus gets transfered to an unprotected 2024, then the Canucks could get a top 10 pick given the current state of the Islanders (old, mediocre no cap flexibility, diminished far system, etc.).
The pick is a nice get for Vancouver but the rest is pretty blah. Beauvillier is an overpaid 3rd line winger with some term (signed through next year). But Jim said he wanted NHL players, so I guess Beauvillier qualifies as an NHL player. Raty is a flier on a prospect who's current production in the AHL is nothing special. They didn't even clear off any cap space, which is something Jimbo said was a goal of his. I guess they could try to pump and dump Beauvillier but the contract might make that more challenging that it appears. They weren't going to get a better pick than the one they got from the Islanders but they probably could've gotten a lot better secondary pieces from another team.
Vancouver bungled the asset that is Horvat. Kevin Weekes heard that Vancouver didn't even shop the Islanders offer around. Either they don't know what they're doing or they really love Beauvillier and Raty for some reason.
View: https://twitter.com/KevinWeekes/status/1620459951956299776?s=20&t=e_Fs7ZQUFncpxJld0zMHJQ
Not sure about hockey, but I've heard of MLB GMs saying the equivalent of "don't use us. shop it around and the deal is off." Maybe Lou gave Van a take it leave it
Given Lou's history, I'm almost certain this is how it happened. He made the offer, gave Vacouver an expiration date and told htem they can't shop it around or it's off.
To be honest, the more I think about it, the more I think Vancouver actually got about as good a deal as they could've gotten. Vancouver made the choice to not let Horvat talk extension with teams so that made it a rental deal. I guess you could ding them on that a bit but I understand why teams don't always do that. It gives the player leverage in the process, which in turn could undermine the return. Rental returns are always underwhelming at first glance. Duchene is probably the closest to Horvat and he got a 1st and two B level prospects. Mark Stone got a 2nd and a good prospect (who then busted- Erik Brannstrom). Kevin Hayes got a 1st and Brendan Lemieux. The first and a prospect is essentially the going rate, and that's what Vancouver got. Additionally, they probably weren't going to get a pick better than the one they got from the Islanders. It's a deep draft and if it converts it's likely in the 13-18 range. If it transfers to next year, the Islanders outlook is pretty bleak. They'll be coming off 2 playoff DNQ's, have an aging roster with limited resources and cap flexibiliity to improve. I think even with Horvat odds are the Islanders get worse next year and that's starting from mediocre.
You could argue about who has the better prospects and Raty vs. Lysell etc. but in the end the Bruins and the other teams rumored to be interested don't have a pick as valuable as the one the Islanders ponied up. If they waited and tried to grind it out, I think all they really would've gotten is maybe an extra late round pick or AAAA type player. I don't think someone would've come in with a 2nd first or something.
Yeah, Kane is scoring 1.48 points per 60 at 5x5. That would put him in the company of AJ Greer (1.49) on the Bruins. He doesn't provide much value elsewhere. His power play production has been decent, a little more than what Krejci's been giving the Bruins, but the Bruins aren't in search of a PP weapon. There's also chatter he's playing hurt. He'd be cheap as hell and there's the whole put him on the 3rd line against softer competition thing but I don't think he gives a ton of value.
Toews feels more in their wheelhouse to me. His production cratered a while ago but may provide some value elsewhere. I haven't looked at his defensive impacts but I think one thing he has going for him is that he is a lefty center and has the highest faceoff win percentage in the league. The Bruins centers are all right handed except for Nosek. I'm not a huge fan of faceoff percentage but I do think there is some value in having a faceoff ace that can be deployed situationally.
I'm not sure either will be on the Bruins radar but I would suspect Toews would be of more interest to the Bruins than Kane.
Toews feels more in their wheelhouse to me. His production cratered a while ago but may provide some value elsewhere. I haven't looked at his defensive impacts but I think one thing he has going for him is that he is a lefty center and has the highest faceoff win percentage in the league. The Bruins centers are all right handed except for Nosek. I'm not a huge fan of faceoff percentage but I do think there is some value in having a faceoff ace that can be deployed situationally.
I'm not sure either will be on the Bruins radar but I would suspect Toews would be of more interest to the Bruins than Kane.
Yeah agreed that Toews has a better-defined potential role on the Bruins than Kane. I think he'd a be a perfect fit for what would amount to a checking line with Coyle and maybe Zacha or Frederic. Plus he owes us for 2013.
Bo knows contract extensions
View: https://twitter.com/NYIslanders/status/1622321318434586625?t=Fdpji46Tl1_CHa8yjsvAfQ&s=19
View: https://twitter.com/NYIslanders/status/1622321318434586625?t=Fdpji46Tl1_CHa8yjsvAfQ&s=19
I love Lou Lamoriello’s reaction:
“It’s too long & it’s too much money.”
https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/nhl/islanders-sign-horvat-to-8-year-deal-after-trading-for-him/2023/02/05/cf8ce150-a5a0-11ed-b2a3-edb05ee0e313_story.html
“It’s too long & it’s too much money.”
https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/nhl/islanders-sign-horvat-to-8-year-deal-after-trading-for-him/2023/02/05/cf8ce150-a5a0-11ed-b2a3-edb05ee0e313_story.html
I have to think that Lamoriello's 1-year deal plays into this - and it's a good example of why you don't want GMs on 1-year deals. If he doesn't sign Horvat, and Horvat walks at the end of the season, Lou looks like an idiot and is likely canned. But if he overpays for Horvat at least he keeps his job (for now, until Horvat is putting up 2nd line C numbers in 3 years...if that).
Some more LHD talk from Friedman. This from his 32 Thoughts post on Friday:
The on-ice fit is still a bit perplexing, for both Chychrun and Gavrikov (or an unamed LHD). The only explanations I can come up with is they are either finally seeing the light on Forbort or they're scared of Grzelcyk in the postseason playing top 4 minutes. A Chychrun - McAvoy, Lindholm - Carlo top 4 would be pretty fucking wild though.
I guess we'll see? I also think that due to their place a top the league the Bruins are going to be floated in just about every trade rumor this year.
Chychrun is a piece that they could acquare and fit in cap wose long term since he has 2 more years at $4.6 AAV.
The on-ice fit is still a bit perplexing, for both Chychrun and Gavrikov (or an unamed LHD). The only explanations I can come up with is they are either finally seeing the light on Forbort or they're scared of Grzelcyk in the postseason playing top 4 minutes. A Chychrun - McAvoy, Lindholm - Carlo top 4 would be pretty fucking wild though.
I guess we'll see? I also think that due to their place a top the league the Bruins are going to be floated in just about every trade rumor this year.
Chychrun makes a great deal of sense, especially taking a long term view. I'd probably go Chychrun-McAvoy, Lindholm-Clifton, Grzelcyk-Carlo though. For some reason Grzelcyk-Clifton is far and away their worst pairing (size perhaps?) and Lindholm-Clifton is stupendously good.
I suspect they may be spooked by Grz's playoff defense, and that's sort of why the LHD rumors are out there. Grzelyck's expected and actual goals against almost always go up in the post season. The last two regular seasons he has had 1.83 and 1.65 xGA/60, with an actual goals against per 60 of 1.44 and 1.93. In the playoffs it's spiked to 2.39 and 2.33 expected goals against per 60 and 2.88 and 5.08 goals against per 60. Obviously the playoff sample size is much, much smaller than the regular season but it's the only thing that really makes sense.
The acquisition cost here would be substantial, but they would get 2+ seasons out him.
The acquisition cost here would be substantial, but they would get 2+ seasons out him.
Some more Chychrun smoke from LeBrun.
https://www.tsn.ca/nhl/tradecentre/countdown-to-tradecentre-edmonton-oilers-l-a-kings-and-boston-bruins-chasing-jakob-chychrun-1.1916436
There's an overlapping article in The Athletic for subscribers that has the same thing regarding Chyrchrun but also mentions that Kane is nearing a decision. Apparently the Blackhawks gave him a list of teams that have shown interest in trading for him and Kane's going to mull it over. He is going to decide soon if he wants to stay or go, and if it's go, what teams he's OK with. I believe Toews has the same agent so I would imaging he's at a similar point in the process. I doubt the Bruins are interested much in Kane, but maybe Toews. For me though, that'd be a last second minute deadline deal if nothing more substantial comes to fruitition.
https://www.tsn.ca/nhl/tradecentre/countdown-to-tradecentre-edmonton-oilers-l-a-kings-and-boston-bruins-chasing-jakob-chychrun-1.1916436
The reported ask is somewhere in the value of 2 firsts and a second. It's hard to parse out a deal because of the cap issues but I think it'd be a 1st and Lysell or Lohrei at a minimum. Then you've got to figure out the rest, including the salary balancing act. If we use the Lindholm deal last year, the 1st and Lohrei/Lysell takes care of the 1st and a 2nd. Zboril can play the role of Vaakanainen. Reilly plays the role of John Moore. Then they need to figure out the final value of the second 2nd they gave the Ducks.
There's an overlapping article in The Athletic for subscribers that has the same thing regarding Chyrchrun but also mentions that Kane is nearing a decision. Apparently the Blackhawks gave him a list of teams that have shown interest in trading for him and Kane's going to mull it over. He is going to decide soon if he wants to stay or go, and if it's go, what teams he's OK with. I believe Toews has the same agent so I would imaging he's at a similar point in the process. I doubt the Bruins are interested much in Kane, but maybe Toews. For me though, that'd be a last second minute deadline deal if nothing more substantial comes to fruitition.
Some more smoke on Schenn.
View: https://twitter.com/nhlrumorsdaily/status/1623476332913885186?s=46&t=PNaBZuC1QjHphjvfWBfBSg
View: https://twitter.com/nhlrumorsdaily/status/1623476332913885186?s=46&t=PNaBZuC1QjHphjvfWBfBSg
This one's a headscratcher for me. Schenn has a -10% relative xGF on a terrible team. Sure he gets a lot of defensive zone starts but that's still not great.
If he's Josh Brown, whatever. If they think he's better than the current 6 (or even Zboril), then yeah.
I mean, I get we've come to accept "you can never have too many defensemen" as the result of the past few seasons. But I really don't see how Schenn is an upgrade over Forbort (similarly -13.7% relative xGF, but on a much better team and with more defensive zone starts) or Grzelcyk (-1.8% rel xGF). Unless they feel Schenn has a skillset that Reilly or Zboril can't provide, I fail to see why they're pursuing him.
It’s probably more that they think Schenn is better than whatever they could call up from Providence if 2 defenseman get hurt, assuming Reilly is going to be traded to make the money work on whatever deal they make.
They still have Stralman and he's reportedly in their plans for the post season. They basically told him to hang out until the playoffs, he's working out and plays a game for Providence here and there. Additionally, Reilly may need to be traded to balance salaries and Zboril could be used as a trade chip as well. It may be something like the current depth guys, Reilly and Zboril head out and are replaced by Schenn in as the depth. That's not so bad depending on what else they do.
Curious to see the return STL got for Tank.
Curious to see the return STL got for Tank.
Rangers got: Tarasenko, D Niko Mikkola
Blues got: Conditional 1st 2023(the later of NYR's 2 1sts as they control Dallas'), Conditional 4th 2024(becomes a 3rd if NYR is a playoff team this year), Sammy Blais, and Hunter Skinner
Blues also retained 50% of Tarasenko's salary
Blues got: Conditional 1st 2023(the later of NYR's 2 1sts as they control Dallas'), Conditional 4th 2024(becomes a 3rd if NYR is a playoff team this year), Sammy Blais, and Hunter Skinner
Blues also retained 50% of Tarasenko's salary
Tarasenko had a full NTC and has been an oft-injured shell of his former self. I'm satisfied with the first rounder and really hope they're not done selling.
Peter Chiarelli is Vice President of Hockey Operations for the St. Louis Blues. Seriously.
I actually think this is a good trade for St. Louis. This is basically what the 'name' rentals go for, particularly the high paid ones with no-trade claues. Last year Giroux got a 2024 1st and a stock-is-falling prospect. This is basically the same trade with better picks. I'd expect O'Reilly to have a similar return, maybe slightly better due to position and the grit factor. Kane and Toews are going to get nothing more than a mid-round pick for Chicago.
Also, I kinda wonder what the prognosis is with Kane and the injury. Is it something that can be fixed between now and the playoffs?
Grab him now, toss him on LTIR and tell him see you in April, and then do something else with the space?
Grab him now, toss him on LTIR and tell him see you in April, and then do something else with the space?
The only issue is the Bruins can only pull off 1 big cap add in all likelihood. I'd prefer other adds but if it was last minute on 3/3, sure.
Yeah my first priority would be a big add on the back end. But, if one of those above mentioned moves were there to be made then definitely.