Angels trade Hamilton to TEX
- Thread starter soxhop411
- Start date
Cellar-Door said:
And you think that Hamilton has kept himself in first-class physical condition and obeyed the Club’s training rules?
I'd love to see the grievance hearing where a lawyer asks the Angels if they have a specific rule saying "Do not ingest products of the coca leaf through your nose".
...so you think he should retire? The Angels have the right to void his contract? The whole of America should converge in Kansas with stones so we can mete out some good old fashion justice?charlieoscar said:
If your point is something more than you know how to Google the boilerplate MLB contract, you should probably state it plainly.
As pointed out below, a piece of boilerplate on it's own doesn't mean much. Did you mean it to say they should (or even could) void the deal?charlieoscar said:
There's no chance of that btw, no way that would hold up. Even worse if they tried he'd sue, and get to ask members of the organization under oath if they violated the JDA by leaking his relapse and subsequent proceedings (which everyone should be pretty confident they did but can't be proven right now). So he'd not only keep his contract, he'd also get a slam dunk case when the union files a grievance for him.
Right... but how that gives MLB and his team the right to express to everyone in America how pissed of they are about I apparently need to have explained to me. Because I imagine that is the opposite of help for someone like him.
M
MentalDisabldLst
Guest
so how then was the ruling ridiculous? I assume it was along the narrow lines of, "he didnt test positive within the system, so he's not a violator within the system. piss off."
instead of cleaving to the letter of the law as a shield, he sought help. and he's getting shat on from all corners for it. after this, if I were a player, I wouldnt trust Manfred as far as I could throw him in a steroid-addled rage.
instead of cleaving to the letter of the law as a shield, he sought help. and he's getting shat on from all corners for it. after this, if I were a player, I wouldnt trust Manfred as far as I could throw him in a steroid-addled rage.
I think Hamilton has learned a lesson here, which is to not tell his employer he relapsed. I'm guessing as a recovering addict he'd like to be honest with everyone but he found out in a harder than expected way that you don't admit weakness to an employer, especially when you're underperforming.
Spacemans Bong said:
Exactly. If Hamilton was a few years younger with an OPS of .900 over the last 2 seasons, the Angels probably try to have this swept under the rug.
Exactly. I think it's nuts that he can go to his employer, admit to breaking his contract, and get off completely scot free.MentalDisabldLst said:
Anyway, it doesn't matter. I heard on the radio that's he's going back into rehab, which is what I think the appropriate punishment should have been.
Breaking his contract?MakMan44 said:
Even if he tested positive under the JDA it is a rules violation not a contract violation.
Except the JDA is written in a way to make those who don't fail tests but are willing to take positive steps able to do so without violation.
If anyone has a grievance it is Hamilton who followed the agreement to the letter, and his employer immediately violated their agreement to smear him in the press, because they knew their mouthpiece at the LA Times wouldn't roll on his source and so Hamilton couldn't prove that it was them. They then used that publicity to attack him again after an arbitrator confirmed that he had taken all the correct steps and was not subject to discipline (which also should have been confidential, but MLB is apparently allowed to comment on it if "someone else" makes the process public.)
At no point have I suggested that the Angels's actions are correct, because they are not. Their behavior is disgusting and simply wrong.
EDIT: After reading about it more, I was confused on why Hamilton wasn't suspended as well. I thought he wasn't suspended because the ruling was that he hadn't violated the rules at all. From what I read, he wasn't suspended because this was ruled as his first offense, or something along those lines.
EDIT: After reading about it more, I was confused on why Hamilton wasn't suspended as well. I thought he wasn't suspended because the ruling was that he hadn't violated the rules at all. From what I read, he wasn't suspended because this was ruled as his first offense, or something along those lines.
Yes, I think they have a right to void his contract.
And just to clarify things, alcohol cost me my career and psychobabble or groups holding my hand didn't make me quit drinking. I woke up (literally) one morning, all hungover, and realized I was slowly committing suicide and that I was the one who controlled my destiny. I haven't had a drink for more than twenty years.
And just to clarify things, alcohol cost me my career and psychobabble or groups holding my hand didn't make me quit drinking. I woke up (literally) one morning, all hungover, and realized I was slowly committing suicide and that I was the one who controlled my destiny. I haven't had a drink for more than twenty years.
Personalizing things like that makes it hard to be objective, no?
If teams can't void contracts related to proven PED use, I can't fathom they could do so for conduct that is otherwise not subject to discipline.
You are to be commended for your recovery.
If teams can't void contracts related to proven PED use, I can't fathom they could do so for conduct that is otherwise not subject to discipline.
You are to be commended for your recovery.
Average Reds said:
If teams want to void contracts, then it should be granted to them - without exceptions. So if Hamilton has a repeat of 2010 this year, however unlikely, and has another relapse, that's it. We can't be soft on drugs pussies when addiction is involved - it's serious!
Of course if Hamilton has a 5 WAR year the Angels have zero, nil, nada intention of getting rid of that contract whether he keeps his nose clean or goes on three day coke binges in the off season with Ron Washington, Tara Reid and Wee Man.
Rasputin said:
A good topic for another thread. My take is that there is so much money being made right now, that a work stoppage would be too costly for both sides. The risk of "dark nights" on NESN and all the other RSN's is money lost that will never be recovered. Just about every team is making tons of money. The MLBPA will fight for more of the pie, but they're not about to worry about trivial matters (trivial, only because it has nothing to do with $$) like drug addiction, rehab and recovery.
He didn't stay clean for decade. He had continually relapsed. No such thing as a minor relapse.LogansDad said:
I had to post to clear that up.
Papelbon's Poutine said:
I don't know, I just think there's going to be one. Player salaries are slipping as a percentage of the money brought in, and folks are getting all cranky on both sides about a lot of things.
Said today--Bill Shaikin @BillShaikin 21m21 minutes ago
Moreno says Angels have separate language in Hamilton's contract vs relapse and they may try to enforce it.
said in 2012
Bill Shaikin @BillShaikin 15 Dec 2012
Arte Moreno: Hamilton contract contains no special language protecting #Angels from relapse, aside from usual MLB drug policy language.
So Arte is being an ass and a liar it seems…
Moreno says Angels have separate language in Hamilton's contract vs relapse and they may try to enforce it.
said in 2012
Bill Shaikin @BillShaikin 15 Dec 2012
Arte Moreno: Hamilton contract contains no special language protecting #Angels from relapse, aside from usual MLB drug policy language.
So Arte is being an ass and a liar it seems…
It's less about lying and much more about self-delusion.soxhop411 said:
They are stuck with Hamilton and any attempt to void the contract will be disastrous for them.
@BillShaikin: #Angels have 4 players on DL. All except Josh Hamilton were invited to home opener: http://t.co/Jtkh7OxfMU
Wtf Angels? You disgust me
Wtf Angels? You disgust me
I wonder if we haven't gotten the full story here. It's possible that Josh did some terrible shit and lied to the Angels, right? I just don't see any other justification for the way he's being treated right now.
“The MLBPA emphatically denies Los Angeles Angels owner Arte Moreno’s assertions from earlier today that the Angels had requested and received the approval of the Union to insert language into Josh Hamilton’s contract that would supersede the provisions of the Joint Drug Agreement and/or the Basic Agreement. To the contrary, the collectively bargained provisions of the JDA and the Basic Agreement supersede all other player contract provisions and explicitly prevent Clubs from exactly the type of action Mr. Moreno alluded to in his press comments today.”
Per Rosenthal
Per Rosenthal
M
MentalDisabldLst
Guest
Moreno is more of a nutter than I thought even yesterday.
At some point, don't you think that someone in the organization might point out that this is poisoning the players (all of them, not just the Angels) against the team?
At some point, don't you think that someone in the organization might point out that this is poisoning the players (all of them, not just the Angels) against the team?
Mike DiGiovanna @MikeDiGiovanna 1h1 hour ago
Did not see any Josh Hamilton merchandise in main #Angels team store ... can't say I'm surprised, given tenor of team's take toward OF.
Did not see any Josh Hamilton merchandise in main #Angels team store ... can't say I'm surprised, given tenor of team's take toward OF.
Why would MLB punish the Angels? The other owners see much more eye to eye to Moreno - they all have similar incentives to reduce labor costs.soxhop411 said:
The only people on Hamilton's side here are the players union and some baseball fans.
I have yet to meet an Angels fan who doesn't love him. He keeps ticket and concession prices low and puts a competitive team on the field.soxhop411 said:
crystalline said:
Because they're trying to use the drug policy as an end around to get out of a contract they signed, violating at least the spirit and probably the law of the CBA, the order of the arbitrator, and they are lying in public and acting like assholes to do it.
Right, but why does MLB (an association of other owners) care if Moreno lies or is an asshole, or violates the CBA and/or arbitrator's order and gets away with it?Rasputin said:
Answer: none of the owners care unless it impacts other owners' bottom lines.
The CBA that MLB has come out and said is broken if it means Hamilton faces no punishment. The arbitrator was only brought in because the union and MLB disagreed. MLB is not going to take a stand defending the player or the union against one of its own here.Rasputin said: