Angels trade Hamilton to TEX

ehaz · Feb 25, 2015

As a condition of his reinstatement, he gets tested for drugs three times a week. I hope he didn't relapse, but it is a long road...

Darnell's Son · Feb 25, 2015

@Ken_Rosenthal: Asked a baseball executive if Hamilton’s discipline was for PEDs. His response: “Worse.” The executive declined to elaborate.

canderson · Feb 25, 2015

Darnell's Son said:
@Ken_Rosenthal: Asked a baseball executive if Hamilton’s discipline was for PEDs. His response: “Worse.” The executive declined to elaborate.

So a relapse?

Regardless if you like Hamilton or not that's terrible if the case.

Leather · Feb 25, 2015

What a waste of talent.

The Talented Allen Ripley · Feb 25, 2015

If it gets the Angels out of his contract, I wonder how conflicted they'll feel about this development.

Rasputin · Feb 25, 2015

Darnell's Son said:
@Ken_Rosenthal: Asked a baseball executive if Hamilton’s discipline was for PEDs. His response: “Worse.” The executive declined to elaborate.

As far as baseball is concerned, the only thing worse than PEDs is gambling.

I hope he hasn't gone completely off track into drunken dugged out lushdom.

The Angels seem to be very good at getting relatively little out of very good players and very good teams. In the Mike Scioscia era, they have finished first or second nine times, won the world series once, lost the LCS twice, and lost the division series four times, their division series losses coming in series where they won one game and lost 12.

SeanBerry · Feb 25, 2015

Luckily he had a huge 2014 postseason so no one can ever call him out for betting on baseball.

TomRicardo · Feb 25, 2015

Darnell's Son said:
@Ken_Rosenthal: Asked a baseball executive if Hamilton’s discipline was for PEDs. His response: “Worse.” The executive declined to elaborate.

Deflated balls?

Follow33 · Feb 25, 2015

Rasputin said:
As far as baseball is concerned, the only thing worse than PEDs is gambling.

I hope he hasn't gone completely off track into drunken dugged out lushdom.

The Angels seem to be very good at getting relatively little out of very good players and very good teams. In the Mike Scioscia era, they have finished first or second nine times, won the world series once, lost the LCS twice, and lost the division series four times, their division series losses coming in series where they won one game and lost 12.

Exactly the first thing that came to mind. At least if it was a relapse and he was caught smoking crack or something it's a manageable situation. The systems are in place to help him regain sobriety and readily available. If it is a gambling issue it just looks bad, real bad and more complicated. In the end I hope neither are true.

TomRicardo · Feb 25, 2015

Rasputin said:
As far as baseball is concerned, the only thing worse than PEDs is gambling.

I hope he hasn't gone completely off track into drunken dugged out lushdom.

The Angels seem to be very good at getting relatively little out of very good players and very good teams. In the Mike Scioscia era, they have finished first or second nine times, won the world series once, lost the LCS twice, and lost the division series four times, their division series losses coming in series where they won one game and lost 12.

While this is absolutely true, it could be domestic abuse on tape. I would imagine all the leagues are extremely sensitive after the Ray Rice incident

JohntheBaptist · Feb 25, 2015

Yeah, I actually took the "it's worse" to mean "for Hamilton." PEDs would be bad, but a slight different shade of relapse than "Oxycontin turned up in his system."

Gambling isn't a bad guess though that is the baseball definition of worst-case-scenario, good call Ras.

Ed Hillel · Feb 25, 2015

Josh Hamilton's father-in-law Michael Chadwick said player has ``hit a bump in the road, keep him in your prayers.''

https://mobile.twitter.com/newsdaymarcus/status/570730033070907392

Unclear if he's being literal about taking a bump in the road or not.

Marciano490 · Feb 25, 2015

TomRicardo said:
Deflated balls?

They said it wasn't for PEDs.

geoduck no quahog · Feb 25, 2015

So it looks like it's recreational drugs. Or pedophilia.

Norm loves Vera · Feb 25, 2015

Jon Heyman ‏@JonHeymanCBS 2m2 minutes ago
Hear hamilton had relapse. Believe occurred a couple months back. Involved at least cocaine. Honorably, he confessed.

follow up tweet..

Jon Heyman ‏@JonHeymanCBS 3m3 minutes ago
There's no word of a failed test. Word is, Hamilton told mlb about relapse. He'd be put in program as 1st time offender.

Snodgrass'Muff · Feb 25, 2015

norm from cheers said:
Jon Heyman ‏@JonHeymanCBS 2m2 minutes ago
Hear hamilton had relapse. Believe occurred a couple months back. Involved at least cocaine. Honorably, he confessed.

follow up tweet..

Jon Heyman ‏@JonHeymanCBS 3m3 minutes ago
There's no word of a failed test. Word is, Hamilton told mlb about relapse. He'd be put in program as 1st time offender.

So yeah, worse for Hamilton, not for the league. Good call JtB. If you're looking for silver linings, that he wasn't caught and still confessed is a good sign for his return to sobriety. Relapses happen. Some people spiral out of control and let it ruin their lives again (or worse) and some people fall, get right back on the wagon and get back on track. If Hamilton slipped, that's terrible. If he slipped and immediately took steps to put that slip behind him, then this could be far far worse than it is.

Darnell's Son · Feb 25, 2015

@jonmorosi: #MLB discipline for Josh Hamilton would be at commissioner's discretion. He is outside standard program because of failed tests in minors.

@jonmorosi: Remember: Josh Hamilton was re-admitted to #MLB in 2006 via Bud Selig's discretion and terms; Rob Manfred has the same authority now.

CarolinaBeerGuy · Feb 25, 2015

I'm not a big fan of his, but, as someone with loved ones who struggle/struggled with addiction, this makes me very sad.

MentalDisabldLst · Feb 25, 2015

If Heyman's reports are accurate, I suppose it could be far worse for Hamilton. Coming clean voluntarily about a relapse suggests he has relatively little shame/fear/self-loathing about this relative to what one might expect of an addict, and that he's made meaningful steps since the bad old days. I'm not his biggest fan on the baseball field, but I'm rooting for the guy the way I root for everyone who's giving their best effort to overcoming diseases of the mind like this. I hope Manfred takes it easy on him, relatively speaking, to encourage the better behavior he's showing.

mt8thsw9th · Feb 25, 2015

TomRicardo said:
While this is absolutely true, it could be domestic abuse on tape. I would imagine all the leagues are extremely sensitive after the Ray Rice incident

According to recent tweets, that's not the case. In the MLB, choosing to only harm yourself with drugs is a capital offense, but as we saw with Manny Ramirez (and Wil Cordero, and Brett Myers, and Derek Lowe, and Bobby Cox, and Dante Bichette--who assaulted a teenage girl he impregnated, and Kirby Puckett, and Milton Bradley, and Dmitri Young, and Albert Callaspo, and so on), beating your wife isn't even a blip on the MLB disciplinary radar.

MLB has protected domestic abusers for years, and even had an incident similar to the Ray Rice incident on tape, which never caught the light of day because it was a marketable player. That people criticize the NFL for the Ray Rice incident and cheer the MLB, who deifies people like Kirby Puckett and praises the bizarre cop out of the "saved" Manny Ramirez, really shows that hatred toward a league or its officials can cloud rational judgement. Goodell is a saint compared to Selig on the issue, and that's not to say Goodell isn't a shit bag. And most MLB fans would never, ever point to Selig's awful track record on domestic violence in the list of things to criticize him for.

Dahabenzapple2 · Feb 25, 2015

As a very wise man who is clean 30 years this past February 5th has said:

"We don't slip in here, we fall, we fall fucking hard, we die and sometimes we die young"

Seriously a relapse is a relapse - I don't believe in "minor relapses" however it can be instructive if the addict gets back quickly to a recovery program/recovery centered life quickly because if not, the addict can lose him or herself quickly and in totality to the disease which is what happened to Hamilton years ago.

However, the idea that he can get clean again and stay clean is a complete unknown. Most addicts may stay clean for a while but staying clean for a long period of time is unusual and certainly not the norm.

I do pray - and I pray for addicts often who are in the grips of active addiction. I will say one for Josh.

At least the people quoted do understand that a relapse for any addict is simply the worst thing that can happen. Some of us take this stuff very seriously. My prayers as always are for that addict to dig deep inside to allow that addict to take this disease very very seriously.

I have a friend who will be clean 1 year on 2/27 for about the 5th time over the past 25 years. Been homeless numerous times. Doing well with recovery but he knows and I know that if he slacks off, he will again find himself panhandling again in Newark.

Dahabenzapple2 · Feb 25, 2015

This is a fine line and maybe I am paraphrasing but I wanted to post this:

"We don't care how much or how little you have, who your connections were, what or how much you used, we only care about what you want to do about your problem and how we can help"

God speed, Josh

somehow, despite seeing what I see on a very regular basis, hearing about this has shook me a bit.

mauidano · Feb 26, 2015

With all the resources and support systems he has, it is amazing how strong that devil is inside of him. To have had as many relapses as he has had, you just have to feel for him. The Angels on the other hand gambled and lost too. I'm sure he feels absolutely horrible and to have this played out on such a large public stage. Wow.

Dahabenzapple2 · Feb 26, 2015

mauidano said:
With all the resources and support systems he has, it is amazing how strong that devil is inside of him. To have had as many relapses as he has had, you just have to feel for him. The Angels on the other hand gambled and lost too. I'm sure he feels absolutely horrible and to have this played out on such a large public stage. Wow.

It might be forward to say this but the devil inside of him is not one bit stronger than that within most any addict.

Staying clean has everything to do with willingness to do whatever it takes to stay clean. Addicts don't relapse because their disease is more powerful than another addict who stays clean.

Dahabenzapple2 · Feb 26, 2015

One more point if I can try.

I know more than a few real "hard core" drug addicts who have stayed clean for very long periods of time. People who lost their teeth by 25 or 30 years old. Guys/Ladies who have lived clean with HIV for over 25 years. Many of those same people were diagnosed with HIV in 1985 or 1988 or 1990 when it was thought of as a death sentence. Many of them died from aids.

However many of them stayed clean despite that "death sentence". Staying clean with what must have seemed like zero hope.

We all know about Josh's history when he left baseball - heroin, crack - probably shooting cocaine - this is not atypical usage behavior for an addict.

Although the level or degree of sickness varies from addict to addict (we often say "some are sicker than others"), this does NOT mean that because one addict might be more towards the sicker or more hard core street urchin type addict, that this addict is more likely to relapse.

I hope I made some sense.

Lose Remerswaal · Feb 26, 2015

So he gets tested 3 times/week but didn't get caught?

I admit I have no idea of the half life of various substances in the body, but this surprises me.

opes · Feb 26, 2015

cocaine is awesome though.

santadevil · Feb 26, 2015

Lose Remerswaal said:
So he gets tested 3 times/week but didn't get caught?

I admit I have no idea of the half life of various substances in the body, but this surprises me.

Is it all year, or just in season?

sean1562 · Feb 26, 2015

arent drug urine tests really only useful for things like weed? cocaine can be out of your system in like 12 hours. weed is the one that can be there for like 3-4 weeks

doc · Feb 26, 2015

sean1562 said:
arent drug urine tests really only useful for things like weed? cocaine can be out of your system in like 12 hours. weed is the one that can be there for like 3-4 weeks

If you know the tests are coming you can have some one else's clean urine to pass off, and if they want a witnessed sample then there are prosthetic penises that you can use or I've even heard of someone using a catheter to put the clean urine in their own bladder.
Modern tests can detect metabolites of many substances to about a week out.

Average Reds · Feb 26, 2015

mauidano said:
With all the resources and support systems he has, it is amazing how strong that devil is inside of him. To have had as many relapses as he has had, you just have to feel for him. The Angels on the other hand gambled and lost too. I'm sure he feels absolutely horrible and to have this played out on such a large public stage. Wow.

Alternatively, maybe he's just a selfish prick who has no impulse control?

Honestly, I do understand how horrible addiction is, but it grinds my gears that whenever we see someone relapse people fall all over themselves to absolve the individual of any responsibility for his actions.

The devil did not make John Hamilton do some blow. He did that all by himself.

Rovin Romine · Feb 26, 2015

Eh.

If he had a one-time off-season relapse (as opposed to a completely losing control binge) AND he's back on the right path (meaning he can show that specific kind of situation won't happen again) AND, most crucially, if he came forward with that information voluntarily, I hope the Commissioner just gives him a proverbial "slap on the wrist."

I think the commissioner would want to encourage transparency about these things.

It's a completely different situation if it's ongoing, or he's still associating with the wrong people, or if he was caught or forced into coming forward.

Sausage in Section 17 · Feb 26, 2015

Josh Hamilton took responsibility for what he did, all by himself. If the reports are right, he turned himself in, even though he could have gotten away with it. His addiction worked him, he worked it back by getting back on track with his recovery. He's already demonstrating skills to deal with this above whatever external measures might be put in place. And he's still saying, go ahead and put them in place anyway. You can fault him for relapsing, but this is a blueprint for how to deal with a relapse in recovery.

I'm glad the Sox aren't paying him $25M, but between his addiction problems, and the messed up thing where the guy died reaching for the ball he flipped into the crowd, I'll admit I've always felt bad for the guy.

Soxfan in Fla · Feb 26, 2015

The addiction started with painkillers from a pretty serious car accident right before spring training very early in his career. Always wondered if the accident didn't happen that the addiction would have happened. Glad he recognized the relapse and self reported it.

dcmissle · Feb 26, 2015

Alternatively, maybe he's just a selfish prick who has no impulse control?

Honestly, I do understand how horrible addiction is, but it grinds my gears that whenever we see someone relapse people fall all over themselves to absolve the individual of any responsibility for his actions.

The devil did not make John Hamilton do some blow. He did that all by himself.

You'd best stay from the various Josh Gordon threads for the sake of those gears.

This is very sad.

That's said, I'm thrilled the RS did not fish in Hamilton pond.

gryoung · Feb 26, 2015

Sad to hear. I hope he can get back on top of this; it sounds like he's starting in that direction with his admission.

The sweetest left-handed swing since .........Will Clark.

VORP Speed · Feb 26, 2015

The dude is basically The Natural. He was out of baseball and cleaning toilets in exchange for being able to take BP.
Sometimes I think about an alternate universe where Hamilton doesn't become a drug addict and Baldelli doesn't turn out to have a bizarre mitochondrial disorder.....all those banners that would be hanging from the catwalks......then I get sad

Average Reds · Feb 27, 2015

Rovin Romine said:
Eh.

If he had a one-time off-season relapse (as opposed to a completely losing control binge) AND he's back on the right path (meaning he can show that specific kind of situation won't happen again) AND, most crucially, if he came forward with that information voluntarily, I hope the Commissioner just gives him a proverbial "slap on the wrist."

I think the commissioner would want to encourage transparency about these things.

It's a completely different situation if it's ongoing, or he's still associating with the wrong people, or if he was caught or forced into coming forward.

My initial comments were a bit cranky, but that's because there's a lot about Hamilton that I just don't buy into. And I don't like the 12 steps perspective that tends to speak about the addict's actions in the passive voice at all times.

Addiction is a horrible disease and one that is never truly cured. At the same time, not all addiction plays out the same way. I have tremendous sympathy for people who have to face the scourge of addiction with minimal support and no resources. I have less sympathy for someone who relapses despite having a veritable squadron of minders at his service if he wants them and unlimited resources.

I'll guess my comments were more of a reflection of wanting to wait until we have a greater understanding of what actually happened before deciding the level to which we hold Josh Hamilton accountable.

luckysox · Feb 27, 2015

I don't feel any worse for the guy, or "less worse" for the guy, based on the fact that he plays baseball, is rich, has minders, or that he'll never be as good as he should have been. His story isn't any more or less sad than every addict out there because of his talent at hitting a baseball. He's got an awful disease. Relapses happen more than they don't happen and they suck. And that's true for every addict in every walk of life, rich or poor, black or white or brown, believer or non-believer, etc. etc. "Minders" are not going to stop relapses, nor is money, nor is god given athletic talent, nor is being saved. He has to be the one who decides to stay clean, and then actually do it. I think unless you're an addict, recovering or otherwise, you probably don't know how hard it is. I could care less about Josh Hamilton and baseball. I do not mourn the lost pennants or records that could have been. Like every other addict out there, I hope he gets himself through the darkness and back to some light, and can stay there as long as possible.

Dahabenzapple2 · Feb 27, 2015

Average Reds said:
My initial comments were a bit cranky, but that's because there's a lot about Hamilton that I just don't buy into. And I don't like the 12 steps perspective that tends to speak about the addict's actions in the passive voice at all times.

Addiction is a horrible disease and one that is never truly cured. At the same time, not all addiction plays out the same way. I have tremendous sympathy for people who have to face the scourge of addiction with minimal support and no resources. I have less sympathy for someone who relapses despite having a veritable squadron of minders at his service if he wants them and unlimited resources.

I'll guess my comments were more of a reflection of wanting to wait until we have a greater understanding of what actually happened before deciding the level to which we hold Josh Hamilton accountable.

He is 100% accountable

Many take the 12 steps as a passive voice and many in recovery often down-play relaspe as if it simply "part of their process" or that we know addicts often use, etc.

If *I* thought that way, I might be doomed.

Soem would not the believe the grief I have gotten for sometimes pointing out that "relapse is not a requirement" or that "I have one clean date"

bottom line it is never OK to use once in the recovery process.

I do differ in one aspect - there is no excuse to use due to one's circumstance. The destitute broke addict off the street can get the same level of support as an addict like Josh Hamilton. I've seen it happen and something very close to that happened to me.

mt8thsw9th · Feb 27, 2015

Soxfan in Fla said:
The addiction started with painkillers from a pretty serious car accident right before spring training very early in his career. Always wondered if the accident didn't happen that the addiction would have happened. Glad he recognized the relapse and self reported it.

Very likely, as drugs don't cause addiction. If they did, everyone who was ever hospitalized and given a regimen of morphine would leave as an addict. Might he not have become an addict during his career? Perhaps, but it would have been completely by happenstance, or serendipity, because you'd have to assume he'd never get injured badly enough to be put on painkillers. Given that he's currently shelved after surgery, broke his arm in 2011, and tore a muscle in 2009 (among other injuries), I can't see how he'd have avoided being placed on pain medication.

However, you're mis-remembering how and when the addiction started. He was sidelined due to the injury and had a ton of free time on his hands. At that point he started drinking and doing drugs thanks to the guys at the tattoo parlor he hung out at (which he hung out at only because of his addiction to tattoos). He's got an addictive personality. That existed long before he ever tried drugs or alcohol.

And, to the original point, he's never been addicted to painkillers, so it could have been the first binge drinking session with teammates that could have kicked off his addiction to alcohol, and eventually cocaine.

Rovin Romine · Feb 27, 2015

Average Reds said:
I'll guess my comments were more of a reflection of wanting to wait until we have a greater understanding of what actually happened before deciding the level to which we hold Josh Hamilton accountable.

I hear you. It's easier to condemn or forgive from afar.

Sampo Gida · Feb 27, 2015

Couple of interesting things here.

The first is Hamilton last year downgraded his accountability partner to do road games only. During the season he had a 616 OPS at home and 874 OPS on the road. Year before he also had a poor record at home but the home road differential was 90 points and not 258. When I first heard that I thought oh-oh

http://blogs.ocweekly.com/navelgazing/2014/02/josh_hamilton_angels_accountab.php

To me it makes it less likely this was a one time relapse.

As for Josh self admitting. Well, perhaps he did. Although he may have been pushed by someone who was threatening to go public if he did not. This is speculation on my part, but for an addict to self -admit, in the offseason when its time to party, it just strikes me as unusual.

Second. As pointed out above by another poster the fact he is supposed to be tested 3 times a week and never tested positive requires explanation if it is confirmed he was using drugs he was tested for.

Last, supposedly he self-admitted a couple of months ago. Why so long for MLB to act?. Coincidence or not they act after news of his recent injury where he will miss 2-3 months.

And I guess I can help but notice the difference in treatment and sympathy between a drug abuser like Hamilton whom we all pray for, and a guy who uses PED's for a medical condition like ADD or low testosterone, or just to recover from an injury quicker, or maybe just to be a better player.

rotundlio · Feb 28, 2015

Sampo Gida said:
During the season he had a 616 OPS at home and 874 OPS on the road. Year before he also had a poor record at home but the home road differential was 90 points and not 258. When I first heard that I thought oh-oh

I think this is attributable to a 0.0% homerun-to-flyball ratio in home games. Hamilton didn't leave the yard once in Anaheim last year, which is crazy. Just adding five home runs to his total would raise the OPS by 120 points. His K% and BB% were slightly worse at home, but so they were in 2013 also, hugely so in 2012. FanGraphs says his line drive percentage was 28% at home and 21% on the road. I don't believe he was strung out while spending all his time at the park and testing twice weekly.

theapportioner · Feb 28, 2015

Rosenthal and Morosi are reporting that MLB is considering at least a 25 game ban, but aiming towards leniency.

http://www.foxsports.com/mlb/story/los-angeles-angels-josh-hamilton-suspension-drug-relapse-022615

25-35 games seems about right to me. Hopefully it gives him enough time to get back on track with his recovery, but not too long so that he's just sitting around wasting away.

radsoxfan · Feb 28, 2015

rotundlio said:
I think this is attributable to a 0.0% homerun-to-flyball ratio in home games. Hamilton didn't leave the yard once in Anaheim last year, which is crazy.

Although, I suppose you could argue he can't muster up the energy to hit balls hard enough to turn fly balls into home runs if he's strung out.

I'm not saying he was, but looking at stats that are seemingly just bad luck for any normal player…. and then applying the same logic to Hamilton might not be valid.

brandonchristensen · Feb 28, 2015

Very impressed if he came forward before getting caught.

Reverend · Feb 28, 2015

https://twitter.com/chicagofakenews/status/570771438367604736

Rough Carrigan · Feb 28, 2015

I've said this before, but how fitting is it that Josh Hamilton is almost completely unable to lay off first pitches? The guy can't resist the temptation of anything.

Angels trade Hamilton to TEX

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