Apparently what Kinsler and MLB have perpetrated against Angel Hernandez is nothing less than an abomination:
Angel Hernandez, files racial discrimination suit against MLB
- Thread starter soxhop411
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And if the wristbands do not get the Office of the Commissioner to take the umpires' concerns seriously, then perhaps they could inform each manager during the gathering at home plate before a game starts that any player questioning, in any manner, a ball or strike call will be summarily ejected.
RULE 9.01
(b) Each umpire is the representative of the league and of professional baseball, and is authorized and required to enforce all of these rules. Each umpire has authority to order a player, coach, manager or club officer or employee to do or refrain from doing anything which affects the administering of these rules, and to enforce the prescribed penalties.
(c) Each umpire has authority to rule on any point not specifically covered in these rules.
(d) Each umpire has authority to disqualify any player, coach, manager or substitute for objecting to decisions or for unsportsmanlike conduct or language, and to eject such disqualified person from the playing field. If an umpire disqualifies a player while a play is in progress, the disqualification shall not take effect until no further action is possible in that play.
(e) Each umpire has authority at his discretion to eject from the playing field
RULE 9.02
(a) Any umpire's decision which involves judgment, such as, but not limited to, whether a batted ball is fair or foul, whether a pitch is a strike or a ball, or whether a runner is safe or out, is final. No player, manager, coach or substitute shall object to any such judgment decisions.
RULE 9.01
(b) Each umpire is the representative of the league and of professional baseball, and is authorized and required to enforce all of these rules. Each umpire has authority to order a player, coach, manager or club officer or employee to do or refrain from doing anything which affects the administering of these rules, and to enforce the prescribed penalties.
(c) Each umpire has authority to rule on any point not specifically covered in these rules.
(d) Each umpire has authority to disqualify any player, coach, manager or substitute for objecting to decisions or for unsportsmanlike conduct or language, and to eject such disqualified person from the playing field. If an umpire disqualifies a player while a play is in progress, the disqualification shall not take effect until no further action is possible in that play.
(e) Each umpire has authority at his discretion to eject from the playing field
RULE 9.02
(a) Any umpire's decision which involves judgment, such as, but not limited to, whether a batted ball is fair or foul, whether a pitch is a strike or a ball, or whether a runner is safe or out, is final. No player, manager, coach or substitute shall object to any such judgment decisions.
Yes, that's exactly what they should do. Because we all know that umpires are infallible.
As an aside, rule 9.02 is the dumbest rule in baseball. Of corse, the rulebook is irrelevant to this discussion, because what the umps are mad about are the comments that Kinsler made after the game.
Perhaps they might consider the fact that Kinsler is right and Hernandez is a truly shitty ump who basically begged Kinsler to challenge him and then threw him out of the game at the slightest provocation. Also, the game is not about them.
As an aside, rule 9.02 is the dumbest rule in baseball. Of corse, the rulebook is irrelevant to this discussion, because what the umps are mad about are the comments that Kinsler made after the game.
Perhaps they might consider the fact that Kinsler is right and Hernandez is a truly shitty ump who basically begged Kinsler to challenge him and then threw him out of the game at the slightest provocation. Also, the game is not about them.
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No sense of humor have you?
Do you think that wearing wrist bands will spur the Commissioner's Office into action? Irrespective of your feelings on the issue, Rule 9.02, or umpires.
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I do agree that the wristbands is a joke, but beyond that I saw no evidence that the substance of your post was supposed to be humorous.
The entire incident here was provoked by Hernandez. Kinsler did not complain about calls in his first two at bats, when he was forced to expand the zone to protect himself. And whatever he said in the third at bat was done in the correct fashion, as he did not show Hernandez up. But Hernandez was spoiling for a fight, so he tossed Kinsler to make the point that he is not to be questioned. And now he - and all of the other delicate snowflake umps - are crying because Kinsler blasted Hernandez for his incompetence.
The umps will probably get some minor concession from MLB to salve their wounded egos and then this will die. Which saddens me, since it's a lost opportunity for MLB to tell umpires to STFU, stop making the game about them and just do their damn jobs.
That letter is such bullshit. Kinsler didn't attack Hernandez's character, he attacked his skill at his job. He might be a great guy, he's just not good enough at the job he's paid to do.
Was there a way for Kinsler to express himself that didn't come across as sour grapes or offensive? Not a rhetorical question, I'm just not sure how players are supposed to raise sincere questions about umpire performance in a manner that gets it taken seriously. Perhaps through the MLBPA?
I'm not sure, but it seems like something that shouldn't be done in public at the very least.
I'm all for robot umps, but until we have robot umps, these are the umps we have. These are the rules they're playing by. Encouraging players and coaches to speak out against them will just lead to distractions. I'm ok with rule 9.02 just to keep the games moving. Otherwise, you'll see nothing but players and coaches bitching about every strike they don't like and vise versa.
There should be a way for them to privately be held accountable for their mistakes, though. I would think going through the MLBPA would be the best way to go about it, but I don't know enough about the infrastructure to know if that makes sense or not.
I dunno, his language is a little ambiguous in that regard. The word "blatant" used in this kind of context tends to have connotations of intent (i.e., "he's not even trying to hide it"). "He needs to stop ruining baseball games" also could be interpreted as meaning that Hernandez is acting with intent. Even the "what is he doing out there?" questions could be taken two ways ("why is he allowed out there?" or "what is he up to out there?"). You wouldn't have to be all that paranoid to interpret the remarks, taken together, as meaning that Hernandez is blowing calls on purpose. Kinsler may not have meant that, but he chose his words poorly if he didn't want to people to think so.
In criticising his fine, it also says Kinsler himself said he expected to be suspended. Maybe I missed that, because I saw what was televised and all Kinsler said was that he expected to be fined and was ok with it:
I know he sucks but other than the last one, they all seemed pretty damn close to me. Not sure he deserves a bit of derision for tonight.
“Your honor, I’d like to enter this tape of Game 3 of the 2018 ALDS between the New York Yankees and the Boston Red Sox into evidence.”
The thing is, if Hernandez doesn’t have a case of discrimination—and I don’t know that he doesn’t—he does actual victims of discrimination a great disservice.
Also worth noting with Angel behind the plate for game 4: Kinsler was the guy who he tossed last year. Wonder if Cora takes the bat out of his hands and gives the Brockstar the start tonight.
Also worth noting with Angel behind the plate for game 4: Kinsler was the guy who he tossed last year. Wonder if Cora takes the bat out of his hands and gives the Brockstar the start tonight.
The main issue with that being that, in order for that to happen, the managers of the teams needed to challenge the play. If they didn't challenge it - or didn't have any challenges left - the call would have been incorrect.
The purpose of replay isn't for the managers to have to umpire the game themselves.
I don't believe any of us wanted him behind the plate. This could get ugly, especially with Kinsler starting. Maybe it's Cora' s evil plan: get Kinsler to cause a stink on a close play, get ejected, and then he has to go to Holt!
Sabathia rips Angel too
http://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/24946204/new-york-yankees-pitcher-cc-sabathia-critical-umpire-angel-hernandez
I wonder if the MLB gave Angel this series and now he'll (hopefully) never get another playoff appearance again.
And he should be treated like a player. DFA him or release him, whichever he prefers. You shouldn't be able to keep your job at this level when you're that bad at it
http://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/24946204/new-york-yankees-pitcher-cc-sabathia-critical-umpire-angel-hernandez
I wonder if the MLB gave Angel this series and now he'll (hopefully) never get another playoff appearance again.
And he should be treated like a player. DFA him or release him, whichever he prefers. You shouldn't be able to keep your job at this level when you're that bad at it
I dunno but the last time an umpire was fired for poor performance was 2012.
edit: Maybe, it could have been drugs too.
He’s baaaack:
Hernandez is clearly an awful ump. But reading between the lines, it seems these suits are as much related to the opacity of MLB’s umpiring system and dubious hiring practices as any overt effort to target him on the basis of his ethnicity. Which is to say that as bad as Hernandez is, when you have a black box of HR protocols and procedures in today’s day and age—that you don’t share because you want to be able to manipulate who gets what position when—this is precisely the kind of thing that can be exploited. The NBA should take note.
Another blown call at first by HOF umpire Angel Hernandez
View: https://streamable.com/z63baz
he blew another obvious call in TB
https://mlb-cuts-diamond.mlb.com/FORGE/2022/2022-06/25/af6c39c4-81bebc11-6a50d591-csvm-diamondx64-asset_1280x720_59_4000K.mp4
View: https://streamable.com/z63baz
he blew another obvious call in TB
https://mlb-cuts-diamond.mlb.com/FORGE/2022/2022-06/25/af6c39c4-81bebc11-6a50d591-csvm-diamondx64-asset_1280x720_59_4000K.mp4
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Honestly I don’t think we can kill him over this. This call gets missed by a lot of umpires. That said, yes he definitely sucks, but not in this case
Once again. Angel is involved in a controversial call.
View: https://twitter.com/BenVerlander/status/1545611635259105281
View: https://twitter.com/BenVerlander/status/1545611635259105281
Laughing. Angel is arguing about not getting a 2018 WS appearance, MLB countered they pulled him off of the crew due to his atrocious ALDS Game 3 performance.
https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/34497311/mlb-argues-umpire-angel-hernandez-3-overturned-calls-2018-alds-cost-world-series-spot
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k1NcRwKM7Q8&t=14s
https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/34497311/mlb-argues-umpire-angel-hernandez-3-overturned-calls-2018-alds-cost-world-series-spot
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k1NcRwKM7Q8&t=14s
Reading that article - how strong is the Umpire Union that Hernandez hasn’t been outright canned by now? Just example after example of a man who is not just bad at his job, but is hostile to the suggestion that he isn’t infallible.
Speaking of which, if people haven't seen it...the Jomboy breakdown of Kyle Schwarber losing it at Angel Hernandez is worth seeing:
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YPFERnpO-QQ
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YPFERnpO-QQ
I think the issue is that they don't have much in the way of reinforcements, at least that are "ready." If they force him out before he's ready to retire, they have to promote someone to take his place. That person may not be much better.
Plus, if they're going to let him go for poor performance and shitty attitude, there's CB Bucknor, Laz Díaz, etc. Where do you stop?
I'll take someone who misses a call due to inexperience over repeated missed calls due to incompetence.
I don't want to trivialize how hard umpiring is, but I can't imagine that the leap from umping in AAA to umping in MLB is that big.
Right, and I agree, but if they promote a AAA umpire, they would then need to promote a AA umpire to take that spot, and so on and so forth. I'm not sure how many minor league umpires there are that are worth moving up. One is probably manageable, maybe even two or three, but the feeding pools are only so stocked. At last check, it wasn't a career choice (or side hustle) that was attracting a lot of applicants, at least not a number that would sustain a graduation rate commensurate with the league's needs.
Unfortunately, at the risk of slipping a toe over the line here (mark it zero), the Umpires Union seems to also employ a "blue" approach to protecting tenured veterans, regardless of how much they've slipped in their work, and not being very receptive to changing their approach.
That might explain keeping him on an extra year or so, but it's been over a decade since he should've been fired.
considering how many minor leagues they shut down, there might be some experienced umps available.
That didn't stop them from promoting everyone they needed to after the umpires walked out in 1999. Diaz was one of those brought up.
Here's are the stats on umpires for this season. Who else would you like fired? I ask because it looks like the error % on pitches per 9 innings fluctuates from year to year.
Here is the link to the game log… if what Jomboy says is correct, those 19 missed calls represent 15% of the non-contact pitches (I counted 129) that Hernandez had to call for the game. That’s bad.
Mil-Phi Game Log 042422