Analysis of Celtics Games, '21-'22 Season

Cesar Crespo

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Let's hypothesize, just for the sake of argument, that Jaylen is unvaccinated.

League policy for unvaccinated players includes a lot of restrictions.

https://www.nba.com/news/nba-releases-protocols-to-teams-for-virus-safety-this-season


Given the nature of the restrictions, a whole lot of people would know. Anyone in the Celtics organization who has access to locker rooms (ie, cleaning and maintenance staff) would know if Brown's locker is as far away from the rest of the team as possible. Likely, staff at any team visited by the C's would also know.

Can a young star player in the NBA spend an entire season confined to the team hotel during road trips without word of that getting out?

Too many people would have to be in the know here for it to remain secret.
You're assuming the C's followed protocol. It's possible JB always spends his time alone in the team's hotel room. I'm sure there are some NBA players who are like that, and were like that prior to covid.
 

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You're assuming the C's followed protocol. It's possible JB always spends his time alone in the team's hotel room. I'm sure there are some NBA players who are like that, and were like that prior to covid.
Not to speak for Eddie, but I believe his point is that it's extremely unlikely that news of Jaylen's unvaccinated status would not have leaked at some point during the season. It's hard for five people to keep a secret, let alone an organization with as many players, coaches, officials and staffers as an NBA team.
 

Eddie Jurak

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You're assuming the C's followed protocol. It's possible JB always spends his time alone in the team's hotel room. I'm sure there are some NBA players who are like that, and were like that prior to covid.
This is how conspiracy theories work. Having strongly asserted that something is possible (Brown not vaccinated), you are so invested in that that any contrary arguments/evidence must be discredited.

In this particular case “Boston Celtics not complying with league Covid-19 restrictions” is itself, a noteworthy scoop - one that would be bigger than the league and widely known by Many league personnel.

The possibility that Brown is unvaccinated depends on the staggering incompetence of each and every reported covering the Celtics and the NBA.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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You're assuming the C's followed protocol. It's possible JB always spends his time alone in the team's hotel room. I'm sure there are some NBA players who are like that, and were like that prior to covid.
JB is VP of players union. If it were found out that he was ignoring protocol while other players had to follow it,I would presume that would be bad for his position.
 

Cesar Crespo

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This is how conspiracy theories work. Having strongly asserted that something is possible (Brown not vaccinated), you are so invested in that that any contrary arguments/evidence must be discredited.

In this particular case “Boston Celtics not complying with league Covid-19 restrictions” is itself, a noteworthy scoop - one that would be bigger than the league and widely known by Many league personnel.

The possibility that Brown is unvaccinated depends on the staggering incompetence of each and every reported covering the Celtics and the NBA.
I think everyone is vaccinated. I've said so for awhile. You are the one hypothesizing. I am hypothesizing with you. Don't go down the rabbit hole if you don't want people to follow you.

edit: Let's only hypothesize good scenarios and ignore the bad ones.
 

HomeRunBaker

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We continue to worry about this even though a good reporter would have sussed out his ineligibility by now, if he was ineligible?
This is where I was until no reporter did their job in Philly with Thybulle which leads me to believe that this is one of those hush-hush things that a beat reporter has to keep quiet about. Which totally sucks but that’s the reality of who runs the show today.
 

Smokey Joe

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This is where I was until no reporter did their job in Philly with Thybulle which leads me to believe that this is one of those hush-hush things that a beat reporter has to keep quiet about. Which totally sucks but that’s the reality of who runs the show today.
Until it becomes “a story” then the beat reporters have to do their job or they lose their credibility as reporters. No one cared if Thybulle was vaccinated or not. The “Are the Celtics unvaccinated” story has been in the national news for weeks. If they knew something and did not report it, their career is at risk.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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It would be a shock if any media members loose their job for how they are covering the Celtics vaccination story. These people are paid to generate impressions and while there may be consequences with access etc, none of their employers is likely to punish them for doing exactly that. And again, the Celtics are making it easy by not being definitive.

At this point, it feels like we have settled into a few camps with some folks really upset about how this is being investigated versus others who simply accept the fact that this is what the press does. In general, forgiveness is their safety net for this sort of story and people are likely to forget quickly if a report is wrong.

Horford chose to end the speculation yesterday. The Cs could kill this whole thing with a few words. They have determined that it isn't in their best interest.
 

HomeRunBaker

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Until it becomes “a story” then the beat reporters have to do their job or they lose their credibility as reporters. No one cared if Thybulle was vaccinated or not. The “Are the Celtics unvaccinated” story has been in the national news for weeks. If they knew something and did not report it, their career is at risk.
You don’t think it’s a story in Philadelphia that Thybulle is not vaccinated? There has been a story regarding Covid protocols all season for all NBA fans who aren’t living under a rock and it is the reporters responsibility to identify which players on their team may or may not be vaccinated. Why didn’t any Philly beat writer not report the protocols that would be consistent with Thybulle being unvaccinated? Arguably the same reason no Celtics reporter has done so with our team. If they want to keep their job and their access they have to play the game the way the team wants it played. This has gone on forever it’s not new. I didn’t believe this was occuring with Covid protocols but now we have clear evidence that it was at least in Philly.
 

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Jaylen, as VP of the NBPA especially, is basically following the same principle as the one that covers it being illegal to bet on your own team, even if it is to win, namely that an answer in only one direction -- yes, I am vaccinated -- like a bet to win, speaks as strongly in the absence thereof ("that's a private matter)." So instead the correct answer always needs to be "That's a private matter" so that no inference can be taken one way or the other.

It's like when someone says "I'm not going to tell you who did it" and you say "well, will you at least confirm if someone didn't do it?" Because if you confirm the first three and then say "no comment," your "no comment" is an answer to the original question.

Perhaps someone on the Celtics is in deed unvaccinated. The only way to protect his privacy is to offer the same "no comment" repose about everyone.
 

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You don’t think it’s a story in Philadelphia that Thybulle is not vaccinated? There has been a story regarding Covid protocols all season for all NBA fans who aren’t living under a rock and it is the reporters responsibility to identify which players on their team may or may not be vaccinated. Why didn’t any Philly beat writer not report the protocols that would be consistent with Thybulle being unvaccinated? Arguably the same reason no Celtics reporter has done so with our team. If they want to keep their job and their access they have to play the game the way the team wants it played. This has gone on forever it’s not new. I didn’t believe this was occuring with Covid protocols but now we have clear evidence that it was at least in Philly.
As someone who has worked in sports media for nearly 35 years, I can tell you there's not much access to lose. The days of beat writers traveling on commercial flights with teams and drinking with players in hotel bars (and then staying silent about players' off-court escapades) are long gone. Beat writers get a few minutes at the end of selected practices and then ask questions at formal press conferences after games. The pandemic ended the era of open locker rooms, and I'm not sure the NBA will ever go back.

If a reporter knew Jaylen was unvaccinated and didn't report as much during the regular season, that would be cause for termination at respectable media outlets. That's a big story. You don't "lose access" for reporting negative news that is accurate. Mannix is probably the one who should be worrying, given that Al says he's vaccinated.

Woj and Shams don't miss much. I find it hard to believe they wouldn't have heard rumblings and then followed up with reports if Jaylen were unvaccinated.
 
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Auger34

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As far as I can tell, this whole thing started because Brian Windhorst reported something that turned out to be completely wrong.

Others at ESPN ran with it in post game press conferences (notably Tim Bontemps and Tim McMahon). Because there’s been no OFFICIAL confirmation either way from Jaylen and the team, they continue to run with it on the basis of “well, they haven’t straight up told us everyone’s vaccinated so there must be something there”. The only person in local media that I’ve seen insinuate anything is Gary Washburn from a piece that WBCD linked to upthread. No disrespect to Washburn but he’s probably one of, if not the, worst reporters on the C’s beat.

I feel like people in this thread have done more work to actually figure out the truth than Windhorst, McMahon, Bontemps, and Washburn combined..and all of that work is pretty overwhelmingly stating that everyone’s vaccinated. I’m at the point where I would be legitimately fucking stunned if anyone has to sit out a potential game in Toronto due to vaccination status
 

HomeRunBaker

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As someone who has worked in sports media for nearly 35 years, I can tell you there's not much access to lose. The days of beat writers traveling on commercial flights with teams and drinking with players in hotel bars (and then staying silent about players' off-court escapades) are long gone. Beat writers get a few minutes at the end of selected practices and then ask questions at formal press conferences after games. The pandemic ended the era of open locker rooms, and I'm not sure the NBA will ever go back.

If a reporter knew Jaylen was unvaccinated and didn't report as much during the regular season, that would be cause for termination at respectable media outlets. That's a big story. You don't "lose access" for reporting negative news that is accurate. Mannix is probably the one who should be worrying, given that Al says he's vaccinated.

Woj and Shams don't miss much. I find it hard to believe they wouldn't have heard rumblings and then followed up with reports if Jaylen were unvaccinated.
Beat writers for NBA teams are the first to report inquires, game status, and transactions via Twitter (aside from the Woj Bombs, big Sham news, etc.

To be clear, I don’t know what’s going on but it’s much more fishy in Boston after nobody reporting on Thybulle when every player in the locker room knew and was openly discussed per direct quotes of players. If a team wanted to freeze out a beat reporter from info to do their job it wouldn’t appear to be very difficult to do.
 

DJnVa

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As far as I can tell, this whole thing started because Brian Windhorst reported something that turned out to be completely wrong.
Not only was it completely wrong, it was EASILY disproven, because he said Tatum, Brown and Horford weren't on an injury report when they were, and that Horford had played in a game when he had not played. It was really bad.

He didn't need a second source, all he had to do was look at boxscore.
 

128

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Beat writers for NBA teams are the first to report inquires, game status, and transactions via Twitter (aside from the Woj Bombs, big Sham news, etc.

To be clear, I don’t know what’s going on but it’s much more fishy in Boston after nobody reporting on Thybulle when every player in the locker room knew and was openly discussed per direct quotes of players. If a team wanted to freeze out a beat reporter from info to do their job it wouldn’t appear to be very difficult to do.
So maybe there's nothing to report. If I understand what you're saying, you're suggesting that beat writers or other media members have been sitting on Jaylen-is-unvaccinated reports out of fear of losing access. I say there's no way that's happening. Somebody in the media world would want to be the one to break what would be a huge story in the NBA.
 

HomeRunBaker

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So maybe there's nothing to report. If I understand what you're saying, you're suggesting that beat writers or other media members have been sitting on Jaylen-is-unvaccinated reports out of fear of losing access. I say there's no way that's happening. Somebody in the media world would want to be the one to break what would be a huge story in the NBA.
The questions about who is and who isn’t vaccinated has been ongoing all season. If your job is to report there is always something to report regarding your teams players vaccination status. Which player(s) traveled beyond the teams hotel on the road? Which players were out at restaurants, bars, entertainment venues, etc in their home market? Who is out eating with other teammates? Whose locker is directly next to another players locker? Who is unmasked when in close contact with others? Etc etc. How difficult would it be to clear each player based on natural observations? Not very hard. Instead, we get tweets learning all about Matt Freakin Ryan. LOL!

Now to be clear…..I’m not saying anyone from Boston is sitting on any definitive Jaylen (or others) news. What I am saying is that we have every reason to believe that this is precisely what occurred in Philly with Pompey, Bodner and others. So if it’s happening elsewhere, it is reasonable to believe it is occuring with other teams as well when they aren’t reporting basic observations that would indicate that playwrs are vaccinsted…….instead, they have leaked names of who may not be. Maybe they do know? Maybe they can’t report it (per unwritten rule)? Maybe they have every reason to believe?

As someone said upthread……it’s a small room and this isn’t going to be kept away from them. By not reporting anything is telling in itself.
 

Cesar Crespo

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I hope that we do, so that we can stop hearing this horseshit. Honestly. Can someone please start a "do we have a vaccination problem with potential Toronto series" thread so I can stop reading this?
I'm with you. I don't see why it's even worth discussing until they play the games. if/when a Celtics player is sitting out, then lets talk about it. Until then, it's a non issue. Worry about it doesn't change anyone's vaccination status.

Part of the reason I'm not worrying about is because if someone major doesn't play, I'm not sure I'll be a fan of the Celtics any longer anyway. At least not until that player is traded away for failing his teammates and the fans. It's a pretty selfish choice. Jaylen Brown has never struck me as a selfish person. Just the opposite. He's also incredibly intelligent. Someone who seems like he would be pro science, and someone who understands his position and that him publicly declaring his vaccination status isn't the same as Horford or anyone else. Or the whole team could just be breaking protocol and the Boston media known for its rainbows and lollipops positive attitude decided to play along as to not rock the boat. Because you know, if protocols were being broken and someone was blacklisted for reporting it, that would go over soooo well. Because Boston media is a pushover and all.


On a pure basketball level, I prefer Chicago. The two teams are trending in opposite directions and IIRC, Toronto always gives the C's problems. Toronto should also be at full health. Toronto is 25-10 over their last 35. Chicago is 6-14 over their last 20. Chicago is also 21-27 against teams .500 or better, Toronto is 28-22. That's tied with Miami for 2nd best in the east. C's have a % point victory, being 27-21.

Looking at the regular season matchups (which really mean nothing come the playoffs):
C's lost to the Raptors by 32, won by 16, won by 12 and lost by 3. They both won a game on the road.
C's lost to Chicago by 14, won by 2, won by 23.

I will say it would be very ironic if players did miss games in Toronto and the C's ended up losing the series, considering all the posters who wanted to avoid Brooklyn in the first round.
 

Eddie Jurak

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With Milwaukee going JV for their game against the Cavs, it looks like the Celtics will most likely beat Memphic, get the 2 seed, and face... probably... Brooklyn in round one. Any possible non-Brooklyn matchup would likely be good for the C's.

Season series vs Brooklyn:

1. November 24: Brooklyn comes to Boston and drills them, 123-104, dropping Boston to 10-9.

The Nets leading scorers were Patty Mills (23), Durant (21), Harden (20), LMA (17). Harden added 11 assists. No Kyrie back then.

The Celtics were without Rob and Richardson and got poor shooting nights from nearly everyone, including Tatum and Brown. Smart led the team with 20 points and 8 assists.

2. February 8: Boston visits Brooklyn and destroys them, 126-91.

No Kyrie, no Durant, no Harden. No Brooklyn starter scored more than 6 points. Jevon Carter led them with 21 off the bench.

The Celtics had their regular lineup and no one played more than 28 minutes. Smart and Brown led the team with 22 each, Tatum added 19. Brown had a near triple double with 9 assists and 7 boards.

3. February 24: Boston vists Brooklyn and wrecks them again, this time 129-106.

Once again, no Kyrie or Durant. Harden is gone by now but obviously no Simmons.

Tatum leads the healthy C's with 30.

4. Sunday March 6: National TV game. Brooklyn comes to Boston and loses a close one 126-120.

Brooklyn HAS Kyrie and Durant, who combine for 56 points (37 of them from Durant).

Tatum drops a monster 54 points. Brown adds 21. Smart has 9 assists. Rob has 5 blocks.
 

NomarsFool

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Can’t recall, is round 1 5 games? Obviously a cake walk against Chicago would be better, but there are probably some advantages to staying sharp and beating Brooklyn from a morale/confidence perspective
 

NomarsFool

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Chicago seems like a very sweepable team. Brooklyn could be, but you also sort of think Durant or Kyrie are each capable of putting up a 50 point game and winning one on their own. So, that series probably goes 5-6 games
 

nighthob

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I remember watching this run...and wondering, as a pretty casual basketball/NBA fan, what could possibly explain the home/road discrepancy. Soft team that would crumble on the road/under pressure? The end result suggests otherwise. Conclusively. Random variance that can happen in any short series (or three)? Possibly. Questionable officiating? Sure, wouldn't be the NBA without a bit of it here and there.

Hopefully this year's vintage rolls, regardless of who they match up with, or what the refs have to say about it.
With Atlanta it was as simple as Josh Smith morphing into Garnett’s MiniMe during the home games (I don’t think he ever played as well, offensively, again). With Cleveland it was as simple as the fact that the Cavs were built around a player that the year before had dragged a D League team to the NBA Finals.
 

TripleOT

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If the Bucks lose tomorrow afternoon, the Celtics should play their G league guys exclusively. Toronto and Miami is a better path than Brooklyn and Milwaukee.

It seems to me that Jaylen Brown hasn’t revealed that he is vaccinated because of his position as VP of the players’ union. If they do choose to drop to 4, we will find out before game 3 with Toronto.
 

HomeRunBaker

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The Cavs catch a huge break by getting a team with a playoff spot locked up to avoid the 9/10 game. I don’t expect to see any relevant Celtic or Grizzlies player on the floor tomorrow regardless of other results.
 

lovegtm

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The Cavs catch a huge break by getting a team with a playoff spot locked up to avoid the 9/10 game. I don’t expect to see any relevant Celtic or Grizzlies player on the floor tomorrow regardless of other results.
If the Celtics are playing a full lineup, we'll know that there is, in fact, a problem with vaccinations. Otherwise, I agree.
 

HomeRunBaker

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If the Celtics are playing a full lineup, we'll know that there is, in fact, a problem with vaccinations. Otherwise, I agree.
Heh! I hadn’t even thought of that but yes this would certainly add more fuel to that fire. I need a Celtics win or a Sixers loss to secure my two Celtics division wagers from 5-6 weeks ago so I would love to see starters out there.
 

Eddie Jurak

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If the Celtics are playing a full lineup, we'll know that there is, in fact, a problem with vaccinations. Otherwise, I agree.
I think this statement is false as a matter of logic. I don't think they have a vaccination issue and I also don't think they will tank this one. Not every team that can advantage itself via tanking actually does.
 

HomeRunBaker

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I think this statement is false as a matter of logic. I don't think they have a vaccination issue and I also don't think they will tank this one. Not every team that can advantage itself via tanking actually does.
Not saying this would be the reason if we ran out the starters it would just be something you don’t see teams normally do in Game 82 even if there was for a seeding advantage. Not sure I’ve ever seen a team go this route for a disadvantage.
 

Marceline

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Heh! I hadn’t even thought of that but yes this would certainly add more fuel to that fire. I need a Celtics win or a Sixers loss to secure my two Celtics division wagers from 5-6 weeks ago so I would love to see starters out there.
Grizz + 76ers ML parlay is +220. Thinking about it.
 

HomeRunBaker

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Grizz + 76ers ML parlay is +220. Thinking about it.
I hate you.

Seriously though if I didn’t have so much upside on a Celtics win today I’d be maxing the side -5 and wait for the Grizz to announce they are sitting everyone then play for the7-8 point middle. If it doesn’t come, which I’d be very surprised if it didn’t, we can simply buy back the Grizz.
 

The Mort Report

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If the Celtics are playing a full lineup, we'll know that there is, in fact, a problem with vaccinations. Otherwise, I agree.
Or Ime doesn’t want the team to take their foot off the gas. With the play in, the next game they’ll play will be Saturday at the earliest. If they rest Tatum then he’d have 10 days off from games, enough time for rust. I think the play in tourney changes some of the calculus on resting guys in game 82
 

HomeRunBaker

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Or Ime doesn’t want the team to take their foot off the gas. With the play in, the next game they’ll play will be Saturday at the earliest. If they rest Tatum then he’d have 10 days off from games, enough time for rust. I think the play in tourney changes some of the calculus on resting guys in game 82
Good point about teams getting a long layoff. Let’s see how each team approaches today as it will be interesting.
 

NomarsFool

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I think they take a middle of the road approach. Anyone who has some aches might get a game off or half a game off, but I don’t think they run Kornet and Hauser and the other G leaguers as the starters. Nesmith will see a lot of action.
 

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ManicCompression

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With Atlanta it was as simple as Josh Smith morphing into Garnett’s MiniMe during the home games (I don’t think he ever played as well, offensively, again).
How soon we forget the Josh Smith/Corey Brewer comeback vs. the Clippers: View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fvex-Puxp_0


Maybe Doc Rivers is the only coach in the NBA who couldn't figure out how to slow down Josh Smith. That's the only common denominator.
 

Eddie Jurak

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Memphis is going with the JV squad tonight, which is not at all surprising.
View: https://twitter.com/TimBontemps/status/1513215726965837825?s=20&t=c0BXMXqaLfC7gmA1-Jq4YA

Tim Bontemps: The Grizzlies say Ja Morant, Jaren Jackson Jr, Tyus Jones, Dillon Brooks and Steven Adams are out and Desmond Bane and Brandon Clarke are questionable for today’s game against the Celtics. If Boston wins, Philly will be the four seed and Boston will be second if Milwaukee loses.

We might be going against Ben Simmons if we get Brooklyn.
View: https://twitter.com/ShamsCharania/status/1513233590577995778?s=20&t=nVDO_zJES-15wYbTb2PeOA

Shams: Sources: There’a optimism Nets star Ben Simmons could make debut during first round of the NBA playoffs as long as his progression continues in strengthening his legs and back. Simmons has been ramping up his workload and is expected to continue doing so.
 
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Deathofthebambino

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Let's hypothesize, just for the sake of argument, that Jaylen is unvaccinated.

League policy for unvaccinated players includes a lot of restrictions.

https://www.nba.com/news/nba-releases-protocols-to-teams-for-virus-safety-this-season


Given the nature of the restrictions, a whole lot of people would know. Anyone in the Celtics organization who has access to locker rooms (ie, cleaning and maintenance staff) would know if Brown's locker is as far away from the rest of the team as possible. Likely, staff at any team visited by the C's would also know.

Can a young star player in the NBA spend an entire season confined to the team hotel during road trips without word of that getting out?

Too many people would have to be in the know here for it to remain secret.
Like HRB, the Thybulle situation leads me to believe that teams aren't bothering to follow the protocols anymore, and if they are, nobody is reporting on them for whatever reason.

That list of "tentative" rules came out in preseason, last September.

I mean, we know this isn't happening, "All players and staff, regardless of vaccination status, must wear masks in almost all situations inside team facilities, during travel and when on the bench during games. The bench rule will not apply to head coaches, who are not required to mask during games.

Kyrie, who we all know isn't vaccinated, isn't even wearing a mask on the bench, as you can see at the 1:00 mark from the other night:

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QiX-EznZOY8
 

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What an incredible regular season did turned out to be. Wish I could say I saw it coming back when the C's couldn't get out of their own way.
 
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Jed Zeppelin

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It's a shame how long it took for them to kick into this absurdly gear because they otherwise would have absolutely coasted to the 1 seed. Sucks that their reward is probably to have the toughest first two rounds, but if they get through Brooklyn and Milwaukee and are healthy/get TL back, they probably enter the ECF as the favorite to win the whole damn thing.

They have been playing grind it out playoff-style basketball for months now, so I think they are ready. And it's not like they aren't battle-tested already—these guys have mostly all played a lot of playoff games for their age.
 

Eddie Jurak

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I think the big questions are:
  • This Celtic team's calling card is its defense. Can opposing teams figure out a way to scheme around it given the benefit of a seven game series? Alternatively, were the Celtics playing at a higher level of intensity than typical regular season teams, such that when everyone steps up in the playoffs the Celtics don't have as much capacity to step up.
  • Will Rob return in anything resembling full health and effectiveness?
  • Assuming they get Brooklyn in round one, how will that work? Can Durant, Irving, and Simmons (assuming he's back) achieve with talent what they lack in chemistry (having played so few games together this year, zero in Ben's case)?
 

Everetts Dinosaurs

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I think the big questions are:
  • This Celtic team's calling card is its defense. Can opposing teams figure out a way to scheme around it given the benefit of a seven game series? Alternatively, were the Celtics playing at a higher level of intensity than typical regular season teams, such that when everyone steps up in the playoffs the Celtics don't have as much capacity to step up.
  • Will Rob return in anything resembling full health and effectiveness?
  • Assuming they get Brooklyn in round one, how will that work? Can Durant, Irving, and Simmons (assuming he's back) achieve with talent what they lack in chemistry (having played so few games together this year, zero in Ben's case)?
I think the other question is whether the improved play translates into crunchtime. There haven't been many close games with this team since January, and I'm still nervous that the offense breakdowns and loses all flow in tight games.